Author Topic: Ebola Could Spread To U.S. By End Of Month  (Read 17854 times)

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Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Ebola Could Spread To U.S. By End Of Month
« Reply #135 on: October 14, 2014, 08:57:04 AM »
Hey, wait a second, I resemble that remark. I shop in Walmart and "similar places"!

Quarantine seems like a civic duty with something like this.  I was always amazed when I worked in a hospital and family members would become enraged when told they needed to wear protective gear , just a paper gown and mask and little paper shoe covers and gloves, when visiting someone with something way less severe than Ebola. And they would refuse to gown up and would march right into the room anyway.

Most people are morons. There's a reason democracy was ridiculed throughout most of history.

Most people are not morons. The reason for democracy is to counter nutty statements like this.

Well it depends on the country in question.

I am getting back to this. In my mind moron is a fairly precise word. Please elaborate. I do not know how to think about you in the future.

Moron means not smart. If you're the kind of person taking part in intellectual conversations on Orthodox forums, chances are most of the people you hang out with are much smarter than the average Joe. You need to spend some time in Walmart and similar places to get an understanding of just how (un)intelligent average people are, and then you wonder "these people get the vote and influence the course of government?". This hasn't changed that much since the ancient world, so it's not surprising that intellectuals of earlier eras concluded, rationally enough, that people of ordinary intelligence shouldn't be given responsibility for the complex affairs of government.

Of course, how we do democracy in practice is delegate government to elected representatives and officials who only need to bamboozle the electorate every few years into re-electing them, but otherwise aren't accountable, so it's effectively an oligarchy.

LOL.

Yes I'm an incorrigible snob and elitist. But am I right?

No, at least in terms of suggesting that the demographic group you are alluding to is significant in American electoral terms. They register and vote in statistically significant far lower percentages than better educated and more affluent citizens - which suggests, I suspect, that book learning and disposable income don't guarantee higher useful intelligence. ;)

Offline Jonathan Gress

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Re: Ebola Could Spread To U.S. By End Of Month
« Reply #136 on: October 14, 2014, 09:00:20 AM »
Hey, wait a second, I resemble that remark. I shop in Walmart and "similar places"!

Quarantine seems like a civic duty with something like this.  I was always amazed when I worked in a hospital and family members would become enraged when told they needed to wear protective gear , just a paper gown and mask and little paper shoe covers and gloves, when visiting someone with something way less severe than Ebola. And they would refuse to gown up and would march right into the room anyway.

Most people are morons. There's a reason democracy was ridiculed throughout most of history.

Most people are not morons. The reason for democracy is to counter nutty statements like this.

Well it depends on the country in question.

I am getting back to this. In my mind moron is a fairly precise word. Please elaborate. I do not know how to think about you in the future.

Moron means not smart. If you're the kind of person taking part in intellectual conversations on Orthodox forums, chances are most of the people you hang out with are much smarter than the average Joe. You need to spend some time in Walmart and similar places to get an understanding of just how (un)intelligent average people are, and then you wonder "these people get the vote and influence the course of government?". This hasn't changed that much since the ancient world, so it's not surprising that intellectuals of earlier eras concluded, rationally enough, that people of ordinary intelligence shouldn't be given responsibility for the complex affairs of government.

Of course, how we do democracy in practice is delegate government to elected representatives and officials who only need to bamboozle the electorate every few years into re-electing them, but otherwise aren't accountable, so it's effectively an oligarchy.

LOL.

Yes I'm an incorrigible snob and elitist. But am I right?

No, at least in terms of suggesting that the demographic group you are alluding to is significant in American electoral terms. They register and vote in statistically significant far lower percentages than better educated and more affluent citizens - which suggests, I suspect, that book learning and disposable income don't guarantee higher useful intelligence. ;)

I think it's the principle that such people should be allowed the vote at all that reactionaries object to. The idea is that people of average or below-average intelligence are more swayed by emotional rhetoric and demagoguery. It's probably a good thing if those people tend not to vote anyway to the extent that this discourages more populism.

Offline Altar Server

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Re: Ebola Could Spread To U.S. By End Of Month
« Reply #137 on: October 14, 2014, 09:40:06 AM »
http://fox4kc.com/2014/10/13/university-of-kansas-hospital-reports-patient-at-risk-for-ebola/

Quote
KANSAS CITY, Kan. — A man in his 40s, who complained of a high fever and other serious Ebola-like symptoms, contacted and then entered The University of Kansas Hospital around 6 a.m. on Monday. The hospital says the patient recently worked as a medical officer on a commercial ship off the west coast of Africa and has a low-to-moderate risk of Ebola.

I hope this turns out to be something other than Ebola
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Offline Rambam

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Re: Ebola Could Spread To U.S. By End Of Month
« Reply #138 on: October 14, 2014, 10:08:19 AM »
I like the idea of restricting voting to property ownership. Make it like voting at a shareholders meeting. You should have to own equity in the country in order to have a say ...

For intelligence -- well, we've got all these smart people running CDC who are going to end up killing us all. At the same time, the common-sense, popular reaction (just quarantine, baby!) seems to be 'smarter.'

I don't have enough time to dig through Google Scholar, but I'd really suspect that a lit search would find: 1) that intelligence (however you measure it) probably accounts for no more than 15 percent of the variance in whatever outcome you want to measure, 2) that the effects of intelligence are curvilinear (i.e., it's possible to be too smart), and 3) that even intelligent people are swayed by emotion (as well as the whole slew of biases, heuristics, etc.)

.. buuuuuut, it doesn't matter, since all these doctors and nurses keep getting Ebola. Pretty soon, we Walmart shoppers will be the only ones left!

Hey, wait a second, I resemble that remark. I shop in Walmart and "similar places"!

Quarantine seems like a civic duty with something like this.  I was always amazed when I worked in a hospital and family members would become enraged when told they needed to wear protective gear , just a paper gown and mask and little paper shoe covers and gloves, when visiting someone with something way less severe than Ebola. And they would refuse to gown up and would march right into the room anyway.

Most people are morons. There's a reason democracy was ridiculed throughout most of history.

Most people are not morons. The reason for democracy is to counter nutty statements like this.

Well it depends on the country in question.

I am getting back to this. In my mind moron is a fairly precise word. Please elaborate. I do not know how to think about you in the future.

Moron means not smart. If you're the kind of person taking part in intellectual conversations on Orthodox forums, chances are most of the people you hang out with are much smarter than the average Joe. You need to spend some time in Walmart and similar places to get an understanding of just how (un)intelligent average people are, and then you wonder "these people get the vote and influence the course of government?". This hasn't changed that much since the ancient world, so it's not surprising that intellectuals of earlier eras concluded, rationally enough, that people of ordinary intelligence shouldn't be given responsibility for the complex affairs of government.

Of course, how we do democracy in practice is delegate government to elected representatives and officials who only need to bamboozle the electorate every few years into re-electing them, but otherwise aren't accountable, so it's effectively an oligarchy.

LOL.

Yes I'm an incorrigible snob and elitist. But am I right?

No, at least in terms of suggesting that the demographic group you are alluding to is significant in American electoral terms. They register and vote in statistically significant far lower percentages than better educated and more affluent citizens - which suggests, I suspect, that book learning and disposable income don't guarantee higher useful intelligence. ;)

I think it's the principle that such people should be allowed the vote at all that reactionaries object to. The idea is that people of average or below-average intelligence are more swayed by emotional rhetoric and demagoguery. It's probably a good thing if those people tend not to vote anyway to the extent that this discourages more populism.

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Ebola Could Spread To U.S. By End Of Month
« Reply #139 on: October 14, 2014, 10:10:29 AM »
If you guys want to talk about voting, please take that to the Politics board. Thanks.
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Offline Rambam

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Re: Ebola Could Spread To U.S. By End Of Month
« Reply #140 on: October 14, 2014, 10:29:55 AM »
Here's an interesting article in the Journal of Applied Microbiology on the survival rates of Marburg and Ebola in aerosol form: http://nihbrp.com/Citations/completed/HumanHealthEcologyTeam/Survival-Inactivation_of_pathogens/Piercy_Survival_Filoviruses_2010.pdf

Says that this stuff can survive for 3 weeks or more when spread by aerosol droplets and dried. The official word is that Ebola isn't airborne. At the same time, its said Ebola is contained in people's saliva. So, a cough would send it airborne, no? What about projectile vomiting and explosive diarrhea? Seems like those could lead to lots of aerosol.

So when the CDC is saying that this stuff isn't airborne, I wonder what they mean.


Offline Punch

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Re: Ebola Could Spread To U.S. By End Of Month
« Reply #141 on: October 14, 2014, 10:34:15 AM »

So when the CDC is saying that this stuff isn't airborne, I wonder what they mean.


I think they mean that it does not fly around on little invisible magic carpets, but needs liquids or turd particals to contain it.  They are saying that you are not going to get Ebola by being in the same building or town as someone that has Ebola.  However, if you come into contact with anything that such a person has spat, coughed, puked, pooped, sweated, licked or screwed, all bets are off.
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Re: Ebola Could Spread To U.S. By End Of Month
« Reply #142 on: October 14, 2014, 10:51:33 AM »
Here's an interesting article in the Journal of Applied Microbiology on the survival rates of Marburg and Ebola in aerosol form: http://nihbrp.com/Citations/completed/HumanHealthEcologyTeam/Survival-Inactivation_of_pathogens/Piercy_Survival_Filoviruses_2010.pdf

Says that this stuff can survive for 3 weeks or more when spread by aerosol droplets and dried. The official word is that Ebola isn't airborne. At the same time, its said Ebola is contained in people's saliva. So, a cough would send it airborne, no? What about projectile vomiting and explosive diarrhea? Seems like those could lead to lots of aerosol.

So when the CDC is saying that this stuff isn't airborne, I wonder what they mean.



CDC and media are downplaying its effects.
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Offline vamrat

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Re: Ebola Could Spread To U.S. By End Of Month
« Reply #143 on: October 14, 2014, 10:54:07 AM »
I don't know why it has to be a dichotomy between quarantine and a sequel to the Black Death?  Quarantine West Africa, then send in personnel vetted, equipped, and monitored by the CDC to start getting this under control.  FWIW, if they don't start quarantine-ing within Africa this is only going to get worse.  It is not enough to just stop them from coming here.  All the problems with quarantine are that "some will still get through".  When you have a hundred people infected you can keep the damage low.  When a hundred million have it, you are pretty much screwed.  If a village has a breakout, quarantine the individual and then the village if it spreads.  If they start rushing the cordon then it's AC-130 time, but before that the disease should be allowed to burn itself out in as small an area as possible and then have doctors on hand to give as much comfort and relief as they can.
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Offline Rambam

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Re: Ebola Could Spread To U.S. By End Of Month
« Reply #144 on: October 14, 2014, 10:57:26 AM »
For an old Walmart shopper like myself, I always thought airborne meant that it has wings and could fly around. So when the CDC says, "This stuff ain't airborne," I breathe a sigh of relief. I just had never thought much about it before.

But yeah, airborne doesn't mean wings or flying carpets. It just means it travels in aerosol droplets. Which means Ebola as contagious as the flu. Is that the wrong take?


Offline Punch

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Re: Ebola Could Spread To U.S. By End Of Month
« Reply #145 on: October 14, 2014, 11:19:21 AM »
It just means it travels in aerosol droplets. Which means Ebola as contagious as the flu. Is that the wrong take?

No.  It is actually worse than the flu.  Your body probably has some resistance to the flu.  In other words, it takes enough flu virus in you to overcome your body's resistance to it for you to get sick.  Same with AIDS.  Studies that I have read state that even with HIV, you probably have some resistance - which is why it requires more intimate contact than just a handshake.  However, Ebola can infect with a dose as small as one to ten organisms.  That is a VERY low dose needed to get you sick, hence the space suites worn by those working with the infected. 
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

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Re: Ebola Could Spread To U.S. By End Of Month
« Reply #146 on: October 14, 2014, 12:25:44 PM »
It just means it travels in aerosol droplets. Which means Ebola as contagious as the flu. Is that the wrong take?

No.  It is actually worse than the flu.  Your body probably has some resistance to the flu.  In other words, it takes enough flu virus in you to overcome your body's resistance to it for you to get sick.  Same with AIDS.  Studies that I have read state that even with HIV, you probably have some resistance - which is why it requires more intimate contact than just a handshake.  However, Ebola can infect with a dose as small as one to ten organisms.  That is a VERY low dose needed to get you sick, hence the space suites worn by those working with the infected. 
Yet we have seen that the Ebola virus is not yet anywhere near as easily spreadable as the flu. For instance, within a six-month time span equivalent to the one that has seen Ebola still remain contained mostly to three countries in West Africa, the H1N1 flu outbreak of 2009 had already become a worldwide pandemic.
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Offline vamrat

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Re: Ebola Could Spread To U.S. By End Of Month
« Reply #147 on: October 14, 2014, 12:29:21 PM »
It just means it travels in aerosol droplets. Which means Ebola as contagious as the flu. Is that the wrong take?

No.  It is actually worse than the flu.  Your body probably has some resistance to the flu.  In other words, it takes enough flu virus in you to overcome your body's resistance to it for you to get sick.  Same with AIDS.  Studies that I have read state that even with HIV, you probably have some resistance - which is why it requires more intimate contact than just a handshake.  However, Ebola can infect with a dose as small as one to ten organisms.  That is a VERY low dose needed to get you sick, hence the space suites worn by those working with the infected. 

We've also been exposed to the flu much more than Ebola.  Apparently the doctor (Kent Brantly) has antibodies in his blood and transfusions from him have been sent to Dallas and Omaha for the two more recent cases.  Turns out, "bringing Ebola to the US" has been a good thing, as far as Dr. Brantly is concerned.  But this was in a very controlled manner.  The guy in Dallas who died was not here in a controlled environment.  

The problem with Ebola is that it is much more lethal than the Flu.  We have flu "pandemics" quite frequently today.  When someone gets the flu in the modern First World, you keep them warm and well nourished and they should be fine, unless they have a weakened immune system already for whatever reason.  If your friend gets the flu you still hang out with them because worst case scenario, you get a day or two off work.  With Ebola, if too many people get it that we cannot deal with using expensive treatments and isolation wards, chances are, you are going to go to the morgue, do not pass go, do not collect $200.
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Offline Minnesotan

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Re: Ebola Could Spread To U.S. By End Of Month
« Reply #148 on: October 14, 2014, 12:30:25 PM »
It just means it travels in aerosol droplets. Which means Ebola as contagious as the flu. Is that the wrong take?

No.  It is actually worse than the flu.  Your body probably has some resistance to the flu.  In other words, it takes enough flu virus in you to overcome your body's resistance to it for you to get sick.  Same with AIDS.  Studies that I have read state that even with HIV, you probably have some resistance - which is why it requires more intimate contact than just a handshake.  However, Ebola can infect with a dose as small as one to ten organisms.  That is a VERY low dose needed to get you sick, hence the space suites worn by those working with the infected. 
Yet we have seen that the Ebola virus is not yet anywhere near as easily spreadable as the flu. For instance, within a six-month time span equivalent to the one that has seen Ebola still remain contained mostly to three countries in West Africa, the H1N1 flu outbreak of 2009 had already become a worldwide pandemic.

And that is because Ebola is not generally airborne, whereas flu is.

I say not generally airborne, because in some animals (notably pigs) Ebola primarily infects the lungs rather than the liver as in humans. Thus, the symptoms are different and more flu-like when pigs get it, including coughing/sneezing up aerosol droplets with the virus in them.

Pig-to-human airborne transmission of Ebola is therefore a possibility right now.

The obvious solution to this problem, of course, would be to kill any pigs with even a possibility of having been exposed to Ebola, and to make sure people who may have been exposed to Ebola don't go anywhere near pigs.
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Offline Adela

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Re: Ebola Could Spread To U.S. By End Of Month
« Reply #149 on: October 14, 2014, 12:35:42 PM »
It just means it travels in aerosol droplets. Which means Ebola as contagious as the flu. Is that the wrong take?

No.  It is actually worse than the flu.  Your body probably has some resistance to the flu.  In other words, it takes enough flu virus in you to overcome your body's resistance to it for you to get sick.  Same with AIDS.  Studies that I have read state that even with HIV, you probably have some resistance - which is why it requires more intimate contact than just a handshake.  However, Ebola can infect with a dose as small as one to ten organisms.  That is a VERY low dose needed to get you sick, hence the space suites worn by those working with the infected. 
Yet we have seen that the Ebola virus is not yet anywhere near as easily spreadable as the flu. For instance, within a six-month time span equivalent to the one that has seen Ebola still remain contained mostly to three countries in West Africa, the H1N1 flu outbreak of 2009 had already become a worldwide pandemic.

And that is because Ebola is not generally airborne, whereas flu is.

I say not generally airborne, because in some animals (notably pigs) Ebola primarily infects the lungs rather than the liver as in humans. Thus, the symptoms are different and more flu-like when pigs get it, including coughing/sneezing up aerosol droplets with the virus in them.

Pig-to-human airborne transmission of Ebola is therefore a possibility right now.

The obvious solution to this problem, of course, would be to kill any pigs with even a possibility of having been exposed to Ebola, and to make sure people who may have been exposed to Ebola don't go anywhere near pigs.

Actually, it's the bats and bushmeat.  The bats carry Ebola but aren't affected.  The animals the bats feed on have Ebola.  The West Africans are trapping the animals, from rodents to chimps, and catching Ebola from the blood of the slaughtered animals.  There are laws against eating bushmeat, but people are struggling to make a living and it's easy to set traps. 

Offline hecma925

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Re: Ebola Could Spread To U.S. By End Of Month
« Reply #150 on: October 14, 2014, 12:48:44 PM »
I thought this was interesting, considering that a nurse caught it.  Worth a read.
A nurse's perspective of Ebola
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Re: Ebola Could Spread To U.S. By End Of Month
« Reply #151 on: October 14, 2014, 12:49:12 PM »
It just means it travels in aerosol droplets. Which means Ebola as contagious as the flu. Is that the wrong take?

No.  It is actually worse than the flu.  Your body probably has some resistance to the flu.  In other words, it takes enough flu virus in you to overcome your body's resistance to it for you to get sick.  Same with AIDS.  Studies that I have read state that even with HIV, you probably have some resistance - which is why it requires more intimate contact than just a handshake.  However, Ebola can infect with a dose as small as one to ten organisms.  That is a VERY low dose needed to get you sick, hence the space suites worn by those working with the infected. 
Yet we have seen that the Ebola virus is not yet anywhere near as easily spreadable as the flu. For instance, within a six-month time span equivalent to the one that has seen Ebola still remain contained mostly to three countries in West Africa, the H1N1 flu outbreak of 2009 had already become a worldwide pandemic.

And that is because Ebola is not generally airborne, whereas flu is.

I say not generally airborne, because in some animals (notably pigs) Ebola primarily infects the lungs rather than the liver as in humans. Thus, the symptoms are different and more flu-like when pigs get it, including coughing/sneezing up aerosol droplets with the virus in them.

Pig-to-human airborne transmission of Ebola is therefore a possibility right now.

The obvious solution to this problem, of course, would be to kill any pigs with even a possibility of having been exposed to Ebola, and to make sure people who may have been exposed to Ebola don't go anywhere near pigs.

Actually, it's the bats and bushmeat.  The bats carry Ebola but aren't affected.  The animals the bats feed on have Ebola.  The West Africans are trapping the animals, from rodents to chimps, and catching Ebola from the blood of the slaughtered animals.  There are laws against eating bushmeat, but people are struggling to make a living and it's easy to set traps. 

Yes, there aren't very many pigs in West Africa, so they don't play much of a role in the outbreak over there.

However, Canadian researchers have determined that pigs can get Ebola and that it manifests as a respiratory disease in them. They did this by deliberately infecting the pigs. The research was prompted by several outbreaks in the Philippines where both pigs and their human caretakers got Reston virus (a close relative of Ebola).
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Offline Adela

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Re: Ebola Could Spread To U.S. By End Of Month
« Reply #152 on: October 14, 2014, 12:53:28 PM »
It just means it travels in aerosol droplets. Which means Ebola as contagious as the flu. Is that the wrong take?

No.  It is actually worse than the flu.  Your body probably has some resistance to the flu.  In other words, it takes enough flu virus in you to overcome your body's resistance to it for you to get sick.  Same with AIDS.  Studies that I have read state that even with HIV, you probably have some resistance - which is why it requires more intimate contact than just a handshake.  However, Ebola can infect with a dose as small as one to ten organisms.  That is a VERY low dose needed to get you sick, hence the space suites worn by those working with the infected.  
Yet we have seen that the Ebola virus is not yet anywhere near as easily spreadable as the flu. For instance, within a six-month time span equivalent to the one that has seen Ebola still remain contained mostly to three countries in West Africa, the H1N1 flu outbreak of 2009 had already become a worldwide pandemic.

And that is because Ebola is not generally airborne, whereas flu is.

I say not generally airborne, because in some animals (notably pigs) Ebola primarily infects the lungs rather than the liver as in humans. Thus, the symptoms are different and more flu-like when pigs get it, including coughing/sneezing up aerosol droplets with the virus in them.

Pig-to-human airborne transmission of Ebola is therefore a possibility right now.

The obvious solution to this problem, of course, would be to kill any pigs with even a possibility of having been exposed to Ebola, and to make sure people who may have been exposed to Ebola don't go anywhere near pigs.

Actually, it's the bats and bushmeat.  The bats carry Ebola but aren't affected.  The animals the bats feed on have Ebola.  The West Africans are trapping the animals, from rodents to chimps, and catching Ebola from the blood of the slaughtered animals.  There are laws against eating bushmeat, but people are struggling to make a living and it's easy to set traps.  

Yes, there aren't very many pigs in West Africa, so they don't play much of a role in the outbreak over there.

However, Canadian researchers have determined that pigs can get Ebola and that it manifests as a respiratory disease in them. They did this by deliberately infecting the pigs. The research was prompted by several outbreaks in the Philippines where both pigs and their human caretakers got Reston virus (a close relative of Ebola).

Maybe the Jewish Kosher laws make sense now.   But they need to make the West Africans to stop eating bushmeat.  It's fueling this outbreak and will affect all of us.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2014, 12:55:20 PM by Adela »

Offline hecma925

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Re: Ebola Could Spread To U.S. By End Of Month
« Reply #153 on: October 14, 2014, 12:56:31 PM »
It just means it travels in aerosol droplets. Which means Ebola as contagious as the flu. Is that the wrong take?

No.  It is actually worse than the flu.  Your body probably has some resistance to the flu.  In other words, it takes enough flu virus in you to overcome your body's resistance to it for you to get sick.  Same with AIDS.  Studies that I have read state that even with HIV, you probably have some resistance - which is why it requires more intimate contact than just a handshake.  However, Ebola can infect with a dose as small as one to ten organisms.  That is a VERY low dose needed to get you sick, hence the space suites worn by those working with the infected. 
Yet we have seen that the Ebola virus is not yet anywhere near as easily spreadable as the flu. For instance, within a six-month time span equivalent to the one that has seen Ebola still remain contained mostly to three countries in West Africa, the H1N1 flu outbreak of 2009 had already become a worldwide pandemic.

And that is because Ebola is not generally airborne, whereas flu is.

I say not generally airborne, because in some animals (notably pigs) Ebola primarily infects the lungs rather than the liver as in humans. Thus, the symptoms are different and more flu-like when pigs get it, including coughing/sneezing up aerosol droplets with the virus in them.

Pig-to-human airborne transmission of Ebola is therefore a possibility right now.

The obvious solution to this problem, of course, would be to kill any pigs with even a possibility of having been exposed to Ebola, and to make sure people who may have been exposed to Ebola don't go anywhere near pigs.

Actually, it's the bats and bushmeat.  The bats carry Ebola but aren't affected.  The animals the bats feed on have Ebola.  The West Africans are trapping the animals, from rodents to chimps, and catching Ebola from the blood of the slaughtered animals.  There are laws against eating bushmeat, but people are struggling to make a living and it's easy to set traps. 

Yes, there aren't very many pigs in West Africa, so they don't play much of a role in the outbreak over there.

However, Canadian researchers have determined that pigs can get Ebola and that it manifests as a respiratory disease in them. They did this by deliberately infecting the pigs. The research was prompted by several outbreaks in the Philippines where both pigs and their human caretakers got Reston virus (a close relative of Ebola).

Maybe the Jewish Kosher make sense now.   

No, it doesn't; unless you raise pigs, eat raw pig blood, or eat undercooked, uncertified pork.
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Ebola Could Spread To U.S. By End Of Month
« Reply #154 on: October 14, 2014, 01:03:05 PM »
It just means it travels in aerosol droplets. Which means Ebola as contagious as the flu. Is that the wrong take?

No.  It is actually worse than the flu.  Your body probably has some resistance to the flu.  In other words, it takes enough flu virus in you to overcome your body's resistance to it for you to get sick.  Same with AIDS.  Studies that I have read state that even with HIV, you probably have some resistance - which is why it requires more intimate contact than just a handshake.  However, Ebola can infect with a dose as small as one to ten organisms.  That is a VERY low dose needed to get you sick, hence the space suites worn by those working with the infected.  
Yet we have seen that the Ebola virus is not yet anywhere near as easily spreadable as the flu. For instance, within a six-month time span equivalent to the one that has seen Ebola still remain contained mostly to three countries in West Africa, the H1N1 flu outbreak of 2009 had already become a worldwide pandemic.

And that is because Ebola is not generally airborne, whereas flu is.

I say not generally airborne, because in some animals (notably pigs) Ebola primarily infects the lungs rather than the liver as in humans. Thus, the symptoms are different and more flu-like when pigs get it, including coughing/sneezing up aerosol droplets with the virus in them.

Pig-to-human airborne transmission of Ebola is therefore a possibility right now.

The obvious solution to this problem, of course, would be to kill any pigs with even a possibility of having been exposed to Ebola, and to make sure people who may have been exposed to Ebola don't go anywhere near pigs.

Actually, it's the bats and bushmeat.  The bats carry Ebola but aren't affected.  The animals the bats feed on have Ebola.  The West Africans are trapping the animals, from rodents to chimps, and catching Ebola from the blood of the slaughtered animals.  There are laws against eating bushmeat, but people are struggling to make a living and it's easy to set traps.  
You mean the animals that feed on the bats or eat the remains of fruits left by the bats? Because it's mostly fruit bats that carry the virus.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2014, 01:03:24 PM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline Adela

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Re: Ebola Could Spread To U.S. By End Of Month
« Reply #155 on: October 14, 2014, 01:19:26 PM »
It just means it travels in aerosol droplets. Which means Ebola as contagious as the flu. Is that the wrong take?

No.  It is actually worse than the flu.  Your body probably has some resistance to the flu.  In other words, it takes enough flu virus in you to overcome your body's resistance to it for you to get sick.  Same with AIDS.  Studies that I have read state that even with HIV, you probably have some resistance - which is why it requires more intimate contact than just a handshake.  However, Ebola can infect with a dose as small as one to ten organisms.  That is a VERY low dose needed to get you sick, hence the space suites worn by those working with the infected.  
Yet we have seen that the Ebola virus is not yet anywhere near as easily spreadable as the flu. For instance, within a six-month time span equivalent to the one that has seen Ebola still remain contained mostly to three countries in West Africa, the H1N1 flu outbreak of 2009 had already become a worldwide pandemic.

And that is because Ebola is not generally airborne, whereas flu is.

I say not generally airborne, because in some animals (notably pigs) Ebola primarily infects the lungs rather than the liver as in humans. Thus, the symptoms are different and more flu-like when pigs get it, including coughing/sneezing up aerosol droplets with the virus in them.

Pig-to-human airborne transmission of Ebola is therefore a possibility right now.

The obvious solution to this problem, of course, would be to kill any pigs with even a possibility of having been exposed to Ebola, and to make sure people who may have been exposed to Ebola don't go anywhere near pigs.

Actually, it's the bats and bushmeat.  The bats carry Ebola but aren't affected.  The animals the bats feed on have Ebola.  The West Africans are trapping the animals, from rodents to chimps, and catching Ebola from the blood of the slaughtered animals.  There are laws against eating bushmeat, but people are struggling to make a living and it's easy to set traps.  
You mean the animals that feed on the bats or eat the remains of fruits left by the bats? Because it's mostly fruit bats that carry the virus.
Yes, you are right.  It's the fruit bat that transmits it when animals eat some of the fruit also consumed by the fruit bat.  But then the bush animals get it and people use very unsanitary methods to handle animals  they catch
Another article about the cycle from fruit bat to humans:
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/how-the-ebola-virus-got-its-name-and-how-we-caught-it-from-animals-9770193.html

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Re: Ebola Could Spread To U.S. By End Of Month
« Reply #156 on: October 14, 2014, 01:23:41 PM »
Who says Ebloa isn't moving fast? Here's some officials saying this thing could double in size every three weeks. (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/W/WHO_EBOLA?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-10-14-08-44-11)

The science on this seems to be clear -- Ebola can travel in droplets, land on something and dry out, and live in a communicable form for three weeks. If anyone's got a journal article citation that refutes the one I posted, please feel free! In addition, the officials tell us this thing can spread through saliva. People sneeze, don't they? Moreover, with all the other explosive and projectile fluids coming out of Ebola victims, there's lots more opportunity for Ebola droplets. Then, there's what Punch said, that it only takes 1 - 10 of these critters to get us. Finally, we've had at least two people -- the nurse in Dallas and the nurse in Spain -- who were apparently following CDC and/or rigorous health protocol and got the disease anyway. Is it because they were using face shields and not respirators? Is it because a droplet landed on them?

Most of our "analyses" are about as useful as that of a middle school speech teacher, whether we're Pollyannas or Chicken Littles. Punch seems like he knows what he's talking about: I'm honestly curious what Punch's prognosis is. Are we done for?
« Last Edit: October 14, 2014, 01:24:05 PM by Rambam »

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Re: Ebola Could Spread To U.S. By End Of Month
« Reply #157 on: October 14, 2014, 01:24:46 PM »
You mean the animals that feed on the bats or eat the remains of fruits left by the bats? Because it's mostly fruit bats that carry the virus.

Bat dung is one means.  However, the Zaire strain seems to be carried by more than fruit bats.  It is known that some bats carry Marburg virus, which is closely related to Ebola.  From what I have read, many scientists believe that the bats are only a transmitter and the virus originates elsewhere.  Ebola tends to kill bats almost as efficiently as it kills people (depending on the species of bat and strain of Ebola).
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

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Re: Ebola Could Spread To U.S. By End Of Month
« Reply #158 on: October 14, 2014, 01:35:48 PM »
Are we done for?

I doubt it.  Personally, I don't think the Russians are far from a vaccine.  The current outbreak may have been a good thing for mankind (even if it was horrible for the ones that got it).  Previous outbreaks were too small and killed too quickly for much research into the matter.  There are still bats frozen from the last Zaire outbreak that have not been tested.  Why?  Not really a problem before now.  This outbreak has gotten our attention. 
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

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Re: Ebola Could Spread To U.S. By End Of Month
« Reply #159 on: October 14, 2014, 02:32:46 PM »
Who says Ebloa isn't moving fast? Here's some officials saying this thing could double in size every three weeks. (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/W/WHO_EBOLA?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-10-14-08-44-11)
Who here ever said it isn't moving fast? I just said that the H1N1 outbreak of 2009 spread much more rapidly over a much broader geographical area, but that doesn't mean that Ebola isn't spreading quickly itself.

The science on this seems to be clear -- Ebola can travel in droplets, land on something and dry out, and live in a communicable form for three weeks. If anyone's got a journal article citation that refutes the one I posted, please feel free!
Pull your head out of the science journals and take a look at what's really going on. As quickly as Ebola is spreading, it's still spreading much, much more slowly than other outbreaks of other viral infections have. That in itself should put things in perspective for you. This is what's happening in the real world, not in the ivory tower of scientific publications.

In addition, the officials tell us this thing can spread through saliva. People sneeze, don't they?
Considering, though, that Ebola isn't known to cause upper respiratory distress the way the flu and the common cold do, Ebola patients really aren't at much risk of sneezing.

Moreover, with all the other explosive and projectile fluids coming out of Ebola victims, there's lots more opportunity for Ebola droplets.
If you're in the same room with them.

Then, there's what Punch said, that it only takes 1 - 10 of these critters to get us. Finally, we've had at least two people -- the nurse in Dallas and the nurse in Spain -- who were apparently following CDC and/or rigorous health protocol and got the disease anyway. Is it because they were using face shields and not respirators? Is it because a droplet landed on them?

Most of our "analyses" are about as useful as that of a middle school speech teacher, whether we're Pollyannas or Chicken Littles. Punch seems like he knows what he's talking about: I'm honestly curious what Punch's prognosis is. Are we done for?
What makes you think Punch really knows what he's talking about? Anyone can post anonymously on the Internet and sound smart.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2014, 02:34:54 PM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline Arachne

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Re: Ebola Could Spread To U.S. By End Of Month
« Reply #160 on: October 14, 2014, 02:58:55 PM »
The science on this seems to be clear -- Ebola can travel in droplets, land on something and dry out, and live in a communicable form for three weeks. If anyone's got a journal article citation that refutes the one I posted, please feel free!
Pull your head out of the science journals and take a look at what's really going on. As quickly as Ebola is spreading, it's still spreading much, much more slowly than other outbreaks of other viral infections have. That in itself should put things in perspective for you. This is what's happening in the real world, not in the ivory tower of scientific publications.

This particular outbreak is actually quite mild, by comparison - the Zaire strain normally has a mortality rate of 90%, while on this occasion casualties bring it closer to the 60% of the Sudan strain.

If someone wants some perspective on Ebola, the best reading material remains The Hot Zone. Of course it is out of date, as it came out in 1994, but history is history, and it hasn't been done so deftly since.
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Ebola Could Spread To U.S. By End Of Month
« Reply #161 on: October 14, 2014, 04:51:45 PM »
The science on this seems to be clear -- Ebola can travel in droplets, land on something and dry out, and live in a communicable form for three weeks. If anyone's got a journal article citation that refutes the one I posted, please feel free!
Pull your head out of the science journals and take a look at what's really going on. As quickly as Ebola is spreading, it's still spreading much, much more slowly than other outbreaks of other viral infections have. That in itself should put things in perspective for you. This is what's happening in the real world, not in the ivory tower of scientific publications.

This particular outbreak is actually quite mild, by comparison - the Zaire strain normally has a mortality rate of 90%, while on this occasion casualties bring it closer to the 60% of the Sudan strain.

If someone wants some perspective on Ebola, the best reading material remains The Hot Zone. Of course it is out of date, as it came out in 1994, but history is history, and it hasn't been done so deftly since.
I had read a little bit about the outbreak at Hazelton Labs in Reston, Virginia (a.k.a. the Reston Monkey House). I don't believe any humans developed the illness, even though many were exposed and even tested positive for its presence in their bloodstreams, but it did break out in the lab's monkey population, and the kill rate was right around 90%. Reston is the town after whom this strain of ebolavirus is named: the Reston ebolavirus. I believe this strain is native to Indonesia.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2014, 05:17:49 PM by PeterTheAleut »
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Re: Ebola Could Spread To U.S. By End Of Month
« Reply #162 on: October 14, 2014, 05:17:50 PM »
The science on this seems to be clear -- Ebola can travel in droplets, land on something and dry out, and live in a communicable form for three weeks. If anyone's got a journal article citation that refutes the one I posted, please feel free!
Pull your head out of the science journals and take a look at what's really going on. As quickly as Ebola is spreading, it's still spreading much, much more slowly than other outbreaks of other viral infections have. That in itself should put things in perspective for you. This is what's happening in the real world, not in the ivory tower of scientific publications.

This particular outbreak is actually quite mild, by comparison - the Zaire strain normally has a mortality rate of 90%, while on this occasion casualties bring it closer to the 60% of the Sudan strain.

If someone wants some perspective on Ebola, the best reading material remains The Hot Zone. Of course it is out of date, as it came out in 1994, but history is history, and it hasn't been done so deftly since.
I had read a little bit about the outbreak at Hazelton Labs in Reston, Virginia. I don't believe any humans developed the illness, even though many were exposed and even tested positive for its presence in their bloodstreams, but it did break out in the lab's monkey population, and the kill rate was right around 90%. Reston is the town after whom this strain of ebolavirus is named: the Reston ebolavirus. I believe this strain is native to the Philippines and/or Indonesia.

The Reston strain was found not to affect humans, which was enormous luck, just down the road from Washington and all. Still, the particular case is covered only in the second part of the book. The first is a comprehensive and meticulously researched history of Ebola, from Charles Monet (the first identified victim, in 1976) up to the Reston timeline.

In the epilogue, the author interviews a scientist, I think the one who discovered Ebola (I don't have the book on hand now, and it's been a few years since I read it last), on the future of the virus. He's the one who says that, if it mutates to become airborne, we'll be looking at something like The Andromeda Strain.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2014, 05:18:33 PM by Arachne »
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Ebola Could Spread To U.S. By End Of Month
« Reply #163 on: October 14, 2014, 05:26:58 PM »
The science on this seems to be clear -- Ebola can travel in droplets, land on something and dry out, and live in a communicable form for three weeks. If anyone's got a journal article citation that refutes the one I posted, please feel free!
Pull your head out of the science journals and take a look at what's really going on. As quickly as Ebola is spreading, it's still spreading much, much more slowly than other outbreaks of other viral infections have. That in itself should put things in perspective for you. This is what's happening in the real world, not in the ivory tower of scientific publications.

This particular outbreak is actually quite mild, by comparison - the Zaire strain normally has a mortality rate of 90%, while on this occasion casualties bring it closer to the 60% of the Sudan strain.

If someone wants some perspective on Ebola, the best reading material remains The Hot Zone. Of course it is out of date, as it came out in 1994, but history is history, and it hasn't been done so deftly since.
I had read a little bit about the outbreak at Hazelton Labs in Reston, Virginia. I don't believe any humans developed the illness, even though many were exposed and even tested positive for its presence in their bloodstreams, but it did break out in the lab's monkey population, and the kill rate was right around 90%. Reston is the town after whom this strain of ebolavirus is named: the Reston ebolavirus. I believe this strain is native to the Philippines and/or Indonesia.

The Reston strain was found not to affect humans, which was enormous luck, just down the road from Washington and all. Still, the particular case is covered only in the second part of the book. The first is a comprehensive and meticulously researched history of Ebola, from Charles Monet (the first identified victim, in 1976) up to the Reston timeline.

In the epilogue, the author interviews a scientist, I think the one who discovered Ebola (I don't have the book on hand now, and it's been a few years since I read it last), on the future of the virus. He's the one who says that, if it mutates to become airborne, we'll be looking at something like The Andromeda Strain.
I'm more familiar with Stephen King's The Stand, a novel that later became the basis for a 1994 TV miniseries of the same name. This novel begins with the accidental release of a weaponized strain of flu virus that eventually wipes out over 99% of the world's population.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2014, 05:28:24 PM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline Punch

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Re: Ebola Could Spread To U.S. By End Of Month
« Reply #164 on: October 14, 2014, 05:29:17 PM »
What makes you think Punch really knows what he's talking about? Anyone can post anonymously on the Internet and sound smart.

Hardly anonymous.  Anyone on the Facebook page associated with this site knows who I am.

In any case, there are articles all over the web regarding Ebola.  It is not a particularly new disease.  The hardest thing about trying to find out anything about it is sorting through the websites to see which ones are crackpot and which ones are not.  My interest in Ebola comes from studying the weponization of the Marburg virus, closely related to Ebola and rumored to have been tested in weapon form by the Soviets.  Thank God the stuff was not around for Japan's Unit 731 to play with during WWII.  
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

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Re: Ebola Could Spread To U.S. By End Of Month
« Reply #165 on: October 14, 2014, 05:57:10 PM »
Or maybe we can figure out a way of going to there to fight the disease without also letting sick people back to this country. I agree about the sense in fighting it at the source if possible, but at the very least it must also be contained at the source.
The only problem I see with this is that we're still telling our own citizens, "Now that you've acquired the infection there, we're going to force you to die there." I don't think that acceptable.

But we're protecting the rest of our citizens from infection. I'm confused as to why this ranks so low in importance to you.
Very troubling logic you display here. Just because I grant a higher priority to other concerns, I'm ranking as low in importance the task of protecting our own citizens?

It is troubling that you don't think the protection of US citizens should be the highest priority of our government.
Is it only American citizens for whom Christ died?

Jesus Christ died for Greek people's sins.
Please don't project meta-debates onto me.

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Re: Ebola Could Spread To U.S. By End Of Month
« Reply #166 on: October 14, 2014, 06:01:51 PM »
With some of the hysteria associated with simple motion sickness, there is this cartoon.

The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
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Re: Ebola Could Spread To U.S. By End Of Month
« Reply #167 on: October 15, 2014, 02:28:27 AM »
WHO releases new Ebola incubation studies showing 42 days (not 21 days)

Quote
The period of 42 days, with active case-finding in place, is twice the maximum incubation period for Ebola virus disease and is considered by WHO as sufficient to generate confidence in a declaration that an Ebola outbreak has ended.

Recent studies conducted in West Africa have demonstrated that 95% of confirmed cases have an incubation period in the range of 1 to 21 days; 98% have an incubation period that falls within the 1 to 42 day interval. WHO is therefore confident that detection of no new cases, with active surveillance in place, throughout this 42-day period means that an Ebola outbreak is indeed over.

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/ebola/14-october-2014/en/
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
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Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

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Re: Ebola Could Spread To U.S. By End Of Month
« Reply #168 on: October 15, 2014, 08:21:44 AM »
With some of the hysteria associated with simple motion sickness, there is this cartoon.



One beer or one hamburger, or even one cigarette, won't kill you. An ebola infection probably will.

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Re: Ebola Could Spread To U.S. By End Of Month
« Reply #169 on: October 15, 2014, 11:38:55 AM »
Or maybe we can figure out a way of going to there to fight the disease without also letting sick people back to this country. I agree about the sense in fighting it at the source if possible, but at the very least it must also be contained at the source.
The only problem I see with this is that we're still telling our own citizens, "Now that you've acquired the infection there, we're going to force you to die there." I don't think that acceptable.

But we're protecting the rest of our citizens from infection. I'm confused as to why this ranks so low in importance to you.
Very troubling logic you display here. Just because I grant a higher priority to other concerns, I'm ranking as low in importance the task of protecting our own citizens?

It is troubling that you don't think the protection of US citizens should be the highest priority of our government.
Is it only American citizens for whom Christ died?

Jesus Christ died for Greek people's sins.

I thought He died for everyone's sins.
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Offline Adela

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Re: Ebola Could Spread To U.S. By End Of Month
« Reply #170 on: October 15, 2014, 01:24:19 PM »
OK, this is really scary.   The 2nd Ebola patient flew on Oct 14 on a airplane between Dallas and Cleveland just 1 day before showing symptoms:

Quote
The second health care worker who tested positive for the Ebola virus traveled by air between Dallas-Fort Worth and Cleveland a day before she began showing symptoms for the potentially deadly disease, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says Wednesday
http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/health/2nd-Ebola-Patient-Traveled-Between-Dallas-Cleveland-Before-Showing-Symptoms-279291962.html

Quote
CLEVELAND, Ohio-- The second Texas nurse confirmed with Ebola in Dallas traveled by air from Cleveland to that city on a Frontier Airlines flight two days ago and may have been contagious at the time, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the airline. The CDC is now working to notify the 132 passengers on the flight-- Flight 1143.
http://www.cleveland.com/healthfit/index.ssf/2014/10/dallas_ebola_patient_traveled.html

I'm very afraid of the people that are supposed to be watching out for us, to be honest.  If this person took care of the Liberian man who ended up dying, why was she not placed on travel restrictions until it was for sure Ebola wasn't transmitted?  Anyone with a brain would have told everyone who took care of the first patient to not travel, to limit their interactions until the incubation period was over.

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Re: Ebola Could Spread To U.S. By End Of Month
« Reply #171 on: October 15, 2014, 01:32:13 PM »
With some of the hysteria associated with simple motion sickness, there is this cartoon.



One beer or one hamburger, or even one cigarette, won't kill you. An ebola infection probably will.

A daily diet of one beer (if one can drink only one beer per night), one hamburger, and one cigarette per day (if one can only smoke one cigarette) is not the most healthy lifestyle. Do you remember that man who ate exclusively at MacDonalds for a month and how sick he became? If one is in ill health already, how can one be expected to fight Ebola?
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

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Re: Ebola Could Spread To U.S. By End Of Month
« Reply #172 on: October 15, 2014, 01:38:21 PM »

Quote
CLEVELAND, Ohio-- The second Texas nurse confirmed with Ebola in Dallas traveled by air from Cleveland to that city on a Frontier Airlines flight two days ago and may have been contagious at the time, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the airline. The CDC is now working to notify the 132 passengers on the flight-- Flight 1143.
http://www.cleveland.com/healthfit/index.ssf/2014/10/dallas_ebola_patient_traveled.html

I'm very afraid of the people that are supposed to be watching out for us, to be honest.  If this person took care of the Liberian man who ended up dying, why was she not placed on travel restrictions until it was for sure Ebola wasn't transmitted?  Anyone with a brain would have told everyone who took care of the first patient to not travel, to limit their interactions until the incubation period was over.

Didn't the CDC say that all persons who have had any contact with Duncan were to be monitored?

What happened? How many other health care workers who came into contact with Duncan are still out there?

Lord have mercy.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 01:45:11 PM by Maria »
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline Jonathan Gress

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Re: Ebola Could Spread To U.S. By End Of Month
« Reply #173 on: October 15, 2014, 01:41:08 PM »
With some of the hysteria associated with simple motion sickness, there is this cartoon.



One beer or one hamburger, or even one cigarette, won't kill you. An ebola infection probably will.

A daily diet of one beer (if one can drink only one beer per night), one hamburger, and one cigarette per day (if one can only smoke one cigarette) is not the most healthy lifestyle. Do you remember that man who ate exclusively at MacDonalds for a month and how sick he became? If one is in ill health already, how can one be expected to fight Ebola?

He didn't say a daily diet; he said that if you only eat one hamburger in your life, or only drink one beer, or only smoke one cigarette, it will not kill you (or the probability of it causing your death is too small to be significant). But if you are infected with Ebola just once in your life, the probability it will kill you is several orders of magnitude greater.

Offline Papist

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Re: Ebola Could Spread To U.S. By End Of Month
« Reply #174 on: October 15, 2014, 03:10:02 PM »
Hysteria --

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/10/12/officials-texas-health-care-worker-tests-positive-for-ebola/

Quote
As CBS 2’s Hazel Sanchez reported, police at Los Angeles International Airport said a passenger who was showing symptoms of the Ebola virus was being evaluated, CBS 2’s Hazel Sanchez reported.

Officials later said they believed the passenger was suffering from airsickness, 1010 WINS reported.
I'd rather see an overreaction than an underreaction to something like this.

^ Me too!
"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

Offline Papist

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Re: Ebola Could Spread To U.S. By End Of Month
« Reply #175 on: October 15, 2014, 03:16:33 PM »
With some of the hysteria associated with simple motion sickness, there is this cartoon.



One beer or one hamburger, or even one cigarette, won't kill you. An ebola infection probably will.
Since I exercise, generally eat healthy, only drink socially, and don't smoke, I'll go ahead and be much more concerned about a highly infectious disease that has a death rate that is, at times, up to 90%.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 03:17:08 PM by Papist »
"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

Offline Maria

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Re: Ebola Could Spread To U.S. By End Of Month
« Reply #176 on: October 15, 2014, 03:19:13 PM »
Hysteria --

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/10/12/officials-texas-health-care-worker-tests-positive-for-ebola/

Quote
As CBS 2’s Hazel Sanchez reported, police at Los Angeles International Airport said a passenger who was showing symptoms of the Ebola virus was being evaluated, CBS 2’s Hazel Sanchez reported.

Officials later said they believed the passenger was suffering from airsickness, 1010 WINS reported.
I'd rather see an overreaction than an underreaction to something like this.

^ Me too!

I agree, especially since there has apparently been an underreaction. Why are the health care workers who cared for Duncan not under strict quarantine?
« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 03:19:38 PM by Maria »
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline Papist

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Re: Ebola Could Spread To U.S. By End Of Month
« Reply #177 on: October 15, 2014, 03:21:43 PM »
Hysteria --

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/10/12/officials-texas-health-care-worker-tests-positive-for-ebola/

Quote
As CBS 2’s Hazel Sanchez reported, police at Los Angeles International Airport said a passenger who was showing symptoms of the Ebola virus was being evaluated, CBS 2’s Hazel Sanchez reported.

Officials later said they believed the passenger was suffering from airsickness, 1010 WINS reported.
I'd rather see an overreaction than an underreaction to something like this.

^ Me too!

I agree, especially since there has apparently been an underreaction. Why are the health care workers who cared for Duncan not under strict quarantine?
It blows me away that the nurse who most recently became infected traveled on a plane, knowing full well that he had been in close contact with an Ebola patient. What on earth was he thinking???
"For, by its immensity, the divine substance surpasses every form that our intellect reaches. Thus we are unable to apprehend it by knowing what it is. Yet we are able to have some knowledge of it by knowing what it is not." - St. Thomas Aquinas, Summa contra gentiles, I, 14.

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Ebola Could Spread To U.S. By End Of Month
« Reply #178 on: October 15, 2014, 03:27:59 PM »
Hysteria --

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/10/12/officials-texas-health-care-worker-tests-positive-for-ebola/

Quote
As CBS 2’s Hazel Sanchez reported, police at Los Angeles International Airport said a passenger who was showing symptoms of the Ebola virus was being evaluated, CBS 2’s Hazel Sanchez reported.

Officials later said they believed the passenger was suffering from airsickness, 1010 WINS reported.
I'd rather see an overreaction than an underreaction to something like this.

^ Me too!

I agree, especially since there has apparently been an underreaction. Why are the health care workers who cared for Duncan not under strict quarantine?
It blows me away that the nurse who most recently became infected traveled on a plane, knowing full well that he had been in close contact with an Ebola patient. What on earth was he thinking???
Because we're geographically so far removed from the epicenter of the outbreak, I suspect a deep-seated, even unconscious attitude of complacency and underestimation of just how serious this disease is.
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline Maria

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Re: Ebola Could Spread To U.S. By End Of Month
« Reply #179 on: October 15, 2014, 03:28:08 PM »
Hysteria --

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2014/10/12/officials-texas-health-care-worker-tests-positive-for-ebola/

Quote
As CBS 2’s Hazel Sanchez reported, police at Los Angeles International Airport said a passenger who was showing symptoms of the Ebola virus was being evaluated, CBS 2’s Hazel Sanchez reported.

Officials later said they believed the passenger was suffering from airsickness, 1010 WINS reported.
I'd rather see an overreaction than an underreaction to something like this.

^ Me too!

I agree, especially since there has apparently been an underreaction. Why are the health care workers who cared for Duncan not under strict quarantine?
It blows me away that the nurse who most recently became infected traveled on a plane, knowing full well that she had been in close contact with an Ebola patient. What on earth was she thinking???


Because we're geographically so far removed from the epicenter of the outbreak, I suspect a deep-seated, even unconscious attitude of complacency and underestimation of just how serious this disease is.

FIFY. http://www.cleveland.com/healthfit/index.ssf/2014/10/dallas_ebola_patient_traveled.html

Quote
The nurse, who provided care for Thomas Eric Duncan at Texas Health Presbyterian Hospital, was identified by family  as Amber Vinson.

I agree. It seems like we have a CDC failure.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 03:31:47 PM by Maria »
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.