Author Topic: Do you believe in reborning?  (Read 5242 times)

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Offline Indocern

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Do you believe in reborning?
« on: September 05, 2014, 03:10:44 AM »
Do you believe in reborning?

Offline lovesupreme

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2014, 03:18:07 AM »
Do you mean the idea of being a "born again" Christian?

Offline Indocern

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2014, 03:21:16 AM »
Do you mean the idea of being a "born again" Christian?

Being dead and then again on earth.

Offline lovesupreme

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2014, 03:24:35 AM »
"Resurrection" is the idea of the dead returning to life.

"Reincarnation" is the idea of the dead being reborn in another body.

Did you mean either of these things?

Offline Indocern

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2014, 03:26:03 AM »
"Resurrection" is the idea of the dead returning to life.

"Reincarnation" is the idea of the dead being reborn in another body.

Did you mean either of these things?

"Reincarnation" is the idea of the dead being reborn in another body.

this

Offline lovesupreme

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2014, 03:28:37 AM »
In that case, no, I do not believe that we are reborn in someone else's body. The Church teaches that our souls and bodies are linked and meant to be together always. That is why death is considered unnatural (although scientifically speaking, of course it is natural).

Offline Santagranddad

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2014, 08:15:37 AM »
No, but I do believe in the little people.  ::)

Offline Jetavan

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2014, 09:32:37 AM »
"Reincarnation" is the idea of the dead being reborn in another body.
Well, that's one version. Other versions involve keeping the same spiritual body throughout one's lifetimes.
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
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Offline lovesupreme

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2014, 11:47:44 AM »
"Reincarnation" is the idea of the dead being reborn in another body.
Well, that's one version. Other versions involve keeping the same spiritual body throughout one's lifetimes.

Oh, well, in that case, I have no views on the matter.

Offline biro

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2014, 11:59:54 AM »
Do you believe in reborning?

I don't. :)
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Offline WPM

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2014, 12:30:01 PM »
Do you believe in reborning?

The correct term is rebirth, ... which is a doctrine expounded by the Buddhism variety.
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Offline minasoliman

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2014, 01:32:44 PM »
Do you believe in reborning?

The correct term is rebirth, ... which is a doctrine expounded by the Buddhism variety.

No that's a vague term still simply because we believe our baptism is rebirth. Reincarnation is the more specific term the OP was looking for
« Last Edit: September 05, 2014, 01:33:47 PM by minasoliman »
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline Justin Kolodziej

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2014, 01:47:09 PM »
no, man dies once only, then the judgment.
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Offline Jetavan

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2014, 02:23:03 PM »
no, man dies once only, then the judgment.
"I die daily." (1 Corinthians 15:31; KJV)
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2014, 04:59:50 PM »
Reincarnation is an important early heresy (Origen), so, no, as a Christian I do not trust it. Reincarnation is so often caricatured in our day as a Hindu folly that I confess I was surprised when I learnt most ancient European religions held the belief, and the classical philosophers (and, again, Origen) held it.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

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Offline minasoliman

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2014, 06:08:04 PM »
It seems it's very hard to pin down what exactly Origen felt about the soul.  At one point it seems he's condemning the idea, and at another point he's open to its possibility if it's consistent with God's justice.  Nevertheless, I think there might have been a deliberate distortion of his beliefs.  Fr. Tadros Malaty seems to show some of these ambiguities on pages 533 and 887.
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline WPM

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #16 on: September 05, 2014, 06:13:35 PM »
Do you believe in reborning?

The correct term is rebirth, ... which is a doctrine expounded by the Buddhism variety.

No that's a vague term still simply because we believe our baptism is rebirth. Reincarnation is the more specific term the OP was looking for

Ok, .. but the whole thing does not say much more than "Christianity is special, other religions are not" ...
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Offline minasoliman

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #17 on: September 05, 2014, 06:23:58 PM »
Do you believe in reborning?

The correct term is rebirth, ... which is a doctrine expounded by the Buddhism variety.

No that's a vague term still simply because we believe our baptism is rebirth. Reincarnation is the more specific term the OP was looking for

Ok, .. but the whole thing does not say much more than "Christianity is special, other religions are not" ...

I don't understand your point.  I'm only pointing out the vagueness of the term you thought was the correct term, which I said, it wasn't.
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #18 on: September 05, 2014, 06:36:01 PM »
It seems it's very hard to pin down what exactly Origen felt about the soul.  At one point it seems he's condemning the idea, and at another point he's open to its possibility if it's consistent with God's justice.  Nevertheless, I think there might have been a deliberate distortion of his beliefs.  Fr. Tadros Malaty seems to show some of these ambiguities on pages 533 and 887.

I agree. And I think he was just engaging the academic climate of his day. However, I also understand why the Fathers needed later to draw a hard line.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

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Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Jetavan

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #19 on: September 05, 2014, 07:53:30 PM »
It seems it's very hard to pin down what exactly Origen felt about the soul.  At one point it seems he's condemning the idea, and at another point he's open to its possibility if it's consistent with God's justice.  Nevertheless, I think there might have been a deliberate distortion of his beliefs.  Fr. Tadros Malaty seems to show some of these ambiguities on pages 533 and 887.
I haven't seen any evidence that Origen's view of the soul involved the possibility that the soul could be associated with more than one physical body; at most, he entertained the idea that the soul pre-existed in a spiritual body of one sort or another, it seems.
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
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"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline Skydive

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2014, 05:27:13 AM »
I think she was looking for your own belief in to weather you believe in the Reincarnation or not. I feel like I am looking at the 'Matrix'. So many dodges :).

Offline JamesR

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2014, 05:56:46 AM »
As in reincarnation? No. It's too evil to be true.

Offline Skydive

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2014, 06:08:06 AM »
As in reincarnation? No. It's too evil to be true.

Why evil? Few things are juster than 'Reincarnation'. Explains why a lot of things in the world come the way they are.

Offline quietmorning

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2014, 07:29:45 AM »
No.  I don't believe in reincarnation. 
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2014, 12:57:41 PM »
As in reincarnation? No. It's too evil to be true.

Why evil? Few things are juster than 'Reincarnation'. Explains why a lot of things in the world come the way they are.

Which, since it's a false explanation, is an important lie. "Why is Skydive being bludgeoned in an alley?" -- "Because he was a Nazi in a past life." -- "Well then let's not interfere." I'm not saying reincarnation requires this kind of thinking, but it's the thinking you're ascribing to it, and it's evil thinking.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

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Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #25 on: September 07, 2014, 03:05:04 PM »
As in reincarnation? No. It's too evil to be true.

Why evil? Few things are juster than 'Reincarnation'. Explains why a lot of things in the world come the way they are.

Which, since it's a false explanation, is an important lie. "Why is Skydive being bludgeoned in an alley?" -- "Because he was a Nazi in a past life." -- "Well then let's not interfere." I'm not saying reincarnation requires this kind of thinking, but it's the thinking you're ascribing to it, and it's evil thinking.
I think you're assuming what Skydive is ascribing to reincarnation. Explaining why things are the way they are, is a pretty generic process. Besides, the reincarnation process doesn't exclude other processes that might also be present, such as chance, chaos, randomness, or divine activity.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2014, 03:08:59 PM by Jetavan »
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
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"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline JamesR

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #26 on: September 07, 2014, 03:37:06 PM »
As in reincarnation? No. It's too evil to be true.

Why evil? Few things are juster than 'Reincarnation'. Explains why a lot of things in the world come the way they are.

Because it blames the innocent for their suffering.

It's hard to touch without delving into politics, but the whole Karma-Reincarnation cosmology seems like a product of the greedy bourgeoisie to try and justify poverty as well as the mistreatment and disregard for the poor (which is what many wealthy Hindus in India do in fact do). I refuse to believe that kids are starving across the globe and being born into horrible conditions because of something they did to entail and/or deserve it in a past life.

Reincarnation just blames innocent victims and give justification under a religious veil for the greedy & wealthy to exploit the less privileged.

Reincarnation and Karma is probably about as evil and disturbing a cosmology as Calvinism.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2014, 03:39:51 PM by JamesR »

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #27 on: September 07, 2014, 04:41:31 PM »
As in reincarnation? No. It's too evil to be true.

Why evil? Few things are juster than 'Reincarnation'. Explains why a lot of things in the world come the way they are.
Because it blames the innocent for their suffering.
....
Reincarnation just blames innocent victims and give justification under a religious veil for the greedy & wealthy to exploit the less privileged.
That's certainly one way (and an all-too-common way) to understand reincarnation, but it's not the only way nor (according to various sources) the most useful and accurate way. Among the Hasidic Jews, for instance, the focus is not so much on blaming the 'victim', but on encouraging fulfilling the 613 mitzvot, which might require more than one physical life-time.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2014, 04:44:19 PM by Jetavan »
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline WPM

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #28 on: September 07, 2014, 05:02:15 PM »
Reincarnation and Karma is probably about as evil and disturbing a cosmology as Calvinism.


Why do you feel reincarnation and karma are "evil?" ... Its just as necessary as a drinking Christ's blood from a chalice.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #29 on: September 07, 2014, 05:11:26 PM »
Reincarnation doesn't have to correspond to the stereotypical Hindu outlook, far from it. But that is what most people in the West assume. I think the real value in the idea of reincarnation can be found better in Christianity. The value as I see it amounts to three things: ( 1 ) that we will be judged, ( 2 ) that we have some knowledge of right and wrong (both these traits are vividly depicted in Plato's parable at the end of the Republic), and ( 3 ) that as others are, so may I have been or become. Common Christian teachings obviously supply the same value as the first two, while the last may require a bit more mystical of an understanding ... (Supposed to be frying chicken so I'll cut this short.)
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

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Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline minasoliman

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #30 on: September 07, 2014, 08:59:59 PM »
Reincarnation and Karma is probably about as evil and disturbing a cosmology as Calvinism.


Why do you feel reincarnation and karma are "evil?" ... Its just as necessary as a drinking Christ's blood from a chalice.
my dear friend, please make some sense
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline Niko92

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #31 on: September 23, 2014, 08:53:42 AM »
Just my two cents (may not mean much as i am new to the forum)

I base a lot of my ideas on the early church fathers and from what i can see only a handful even mention anything to do with reincarnation but even then only really as a passing by type of thing.

The most notable one as mentioned being Origen but in my opinion completely misinterpreted in regards to that topic and even at times he is skeptical of his "version" of it. (If i may word it like that)

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Offline Indocern

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #32 on: May 21, 2015, 04:04:19 PM »
I believe in reborning.

Offline sakura95

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #33 on: May 21, 2015, 04:09:42 PM »
Yes and no.

Yes in the sense that we are reborn anew in Baptism.

No in the sense of reincarnation.
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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #34 on: May 21, 2015, 04:44:25 PM »
Reincarnation? Nope! I should be buddhist to believe in this and if i was a buddhist i must also accept to believe that i could be a cockroach in my next life. LOL.
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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #35 on: May 21, 2015, 04:53:21 PM »
I think I might like to be a parakeet. They're cute. ;)
My only weakness is, well, never mind

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I looked in it and learnt to shut my mouth

Come back my dream into my arms, into my arms

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #36 on: May 21, 2015, 09:33:41 PM »
I believe in reborning.

What is "reborning"?

Do you mean baptismal regeneration or rebirth, or do you mean reincarnation or transmigration of souls?

I believe in the former and the latter I believe was anathematized along with Origen who was alleged to have taught it.
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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #37 on: May 21, 2015, 09:38:11 PM »
I believe in reborning.
How is that compatible with Orthodoxy?
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Offline Indocern

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #38 on: May 22, 2015, 06:02:13 AM »
I believe in reborning.
How is that compatible with Orthodoxy?

I know it is not compatible with orthodoxy I will overcome it.

Offline Indocern

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #39 on: May 12, 2016, 12:25:41 PM »
I talked with my priest, he say that there is no reincarnation.

But I still believe that there is reincarnation.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2016, 12:37:01 PM by Indocern »

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #40 on: May 12, 2016, 12:36:15 PM »
I've read a book on RC apologetics against Spiritism which exposed the doctrine of reincarnation as essentially despising Christ himself.

If there is reincarnation, and a soul is not directly connected to one life (in the literal, biological sense), we won't all be raised in judgement day, so Christ's resurrection was unfruitful. If the damned are punished by inferior reincarnation, and not by hellfire, so Christ's harrowing of hell was unworthy. If the meaning of life is being freed from the circle of reincarnations, why would Christ transfigure the world in the end?
« Last Edit: May 12, 2016, 12:37:43 PM by RaphaCam »
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

Anyhow when God was asked he said Eastern Orthodox is true Church and not Catholic Church. So come home and enjoy.

Offline CarolS

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #41 on: May 12, 2016, 12:50:56 PM »
The sacrifice of Christ on the Cross offers us salvation which lasts for all eternity. Why would we need to be born again? Also, while we have opportunities for repentance while alive ( in this life only) there is no indication in the Holy Scriptures that we get another life to try again.
Have you ever imagined a world with no hypothetical situations?

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #42 on: May 12, 2016, 03:03:01 PM »
I talked with my priest, he say that there is no reincarnation.

But I still believe that there is reincarnation.

Why?
Because you like the idea, or because you've seen some evidence to support it?
I have always found the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom to be so much more moving in the original Ukrainian.

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #43 on: May 12, 2016, 03:30:38 PM »
We don't believe in reincarnation because we are not embodied souls.  Our bodies are intrinsically part of who we are as a person just as much as our souls.  To reincarnate is not merely to insult Christ's justice, but Christ's incarnation.  He was incarnate fully as we are, so each person with body and soul are not reincarnate, but have a unique salvific place in Christ's heart.  It is impossible therefore to believe in Christ's incarnation and our reincarnation.  One cancels the other out.  He came to heal your bodies, not to abolish it with another body.  To believe in reincarnation is to insult Christ's incarnation.
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #44 on: May 12, 2016, 03:34:04 PM »
We don't believe in reincarnation because we are not embodied souls.  Our bodies are intrinsically part of who we are as a person just as much as our souls.  To reincarnate is not merely to insult Christ's justice, but Christ's incarnation.  He was incarnate fully as we are, so each person with body and soul are not reincarnate, but have a unique salvific place in Christ's heart.  It is impossible therefore to believe in Christ's incarnation and our reincarnation.  One cancels the other out.  He came to heal your bodies, not to abolish it with another body.  To believe in reincarnation is to insult Christ's incarnation.

I'm going to copy this and save it for later. This is an excellent explanation!
I have always found the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom to be so much more moving in the original Ukrainian.

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #45 on: May 12, 2016, 04:27:17 PM »
I talked with my priest, he say that there is no reincarnation.

But I still believe that there is reincarnation.

Why?
Because you like the idea, or because you've seen some evidence to support it?

Because I like the idea.

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #46 on: May 12, 2016, 04:57:16 PM »
I talked with my priest, he say that there is no reincarnation.

But I still believe that there is reincarnation.

Why?
Because you like the idea, or because you've seen some evidence to support it?

Because I like the idea.

In that case, I believe I'm invisible, and can fly.  :o
I have always found the Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom to be so much more moving in the original Ukrainian.

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #47 on: May 12, 2016, 11:51:11 PM »
I talked with my priest, he say that there is no reincarnation.

But I still believe that there is reincarnation.

Why?
Because you like the idea, or because you've seen some evidence to support it?

Because I like the idea.
I don't.

God bless!

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #48 on: May 12, 2016, 11:53:06 PM »
I talked with my priest, he say that there is no reincarnation.

But I still believe that there is reincarnation.

Why?
Because you like the idea, or because you've seen some evidence to support it?

Because I like the idea.
I don't.




That's not reborning ....thats undeading   

very different
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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #49 on: May 12, 2016, 11:57:27 PM »
I talked with my priest, he say that there is no reincarnation.

But I still believe that there is reincarnation.

Why?
Because you like the idea, or because you've seen some evidence to support it?

Because I like the idea.

In that case, I believe I'm invisible, and can fly.  :o

Ok, R. Kelly
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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #50 on: May 13, 2016, 12:06:19 AM »
no, man dies once only, then the judgment.

And yet Lazarus (and others) died twice.


Selam
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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #51 on: May 14, 2016, 11:53:18 AM »
He came to heal your bodies, not to abolish it with another body. 

The Hasidic Jews believe in reincarnation, and have developed a way to reconcile reincarnation and resurrection without abolishing the body. The precise way they do it is really not important; what's important is that there are ways to reconcile these two apparently contradictory ideas. Reconciliation seems possible, if only because of what Jesus said, concerning John the Baptist, in Matthew 11:14: "And if you are willing to accept it, John himself is Elijah who was to come."

If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #52 on: May 14, 2016, 12:15:10 PM »
I talked with my priest, he say that there is no reincarnation.

But I still believe that there is reincarnation.

Why?
Because you like the idea, or because you've seen some evidence to support it?

Because I like the idea.

In that case, I believe I'm invisible, and can fly.  :o
I believe I can fly. I believe I can touch the sky.
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline RaphaCam

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #53 on: May 14, 2016, 12:33:01 PM »
He came to heal your bodies, not to abolish it with another body. 

The Hasidic Jews believe in reincarnation, and have developed a way to reconcile reincarnation and resurrection without abolishing the body. The precise way they do it is really not important; what's important is that there are ways to reconcile these two apparently contradictory ideas. Reconciliation seems possible, if only because of what Jesus said, concerning John the Baptist, in Matthew 11:14: "And if you are willing to accept it, John himself is Elijah who was to come."
Well, it is certainly possible to compatibilise whatever weird doctrine you decide to be cool enough to try to match with the Bible. There are books and books all over history where Gnostics, Kardecists and New Agers tried to do that, but it's neither in the Bible nor in the Sacred Tradition (unless, of course, in heresiology), so we shouldn't try to mess with that, specially when we're trying to exhortate a brother in doubt.

The coming of St. Elijah was fulfilled at the Transfiguration. St. John the Forerunner just figurated St. Elijah. Seriously, how would even St. Elijah reincarnate if he didn't even die in the first place?!

« Last Edit: May 14, 2016, 12:33:43 PM by RaphaCam »
"May the Lord our God remember in His kingdom all Holy Catholic Apostolic Church, which heralds the Word of Truth and fearlessly offers and distributes the Holy Oblation despite human deficiencies and persecutions moved by the powers of this world, in all time and unto the ages of ages."

Anyhow when God was asked he said Eastern Orthodox is true Church and not Catholic Church. So come home and enjoy.

Offline Velsigne

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #54 on: May 14, 2016, 12:51:42 PM »
We don't believe in reincarnation because we are not embodied souls.  Our bodies are intrinsically part of who we are as a person just as much as our souls.  To reincarnate is not merely to insult Christ's justice, but Christ's incarnation.  He was incarnate fully as we are, so each person with body and soul are not reincarnate, but have a unique salvific place in Christ's heart.  It is impossible therefore to believe in Christ's incarnation and our reincarnation.  One cancels the other out.  He came to heal your bodies, not to abolish it with another body.  To believe in reincarnation is to insult Christ's incarnation.

Yes, thank you Mina, very helpful explanation.

I used to think reincarnation was a possibility, but having learned to hate my life here prior to becoming Christian, I resolved that I never wanted to return here again. 

This was part of my calculus as a convert, that I want to be healed in this life and never have to come back and play this silly game of duality. 

I have learned a lot by God's grace since those days.  For one, to love life again, to love God is to love the life He bestows on us, to be grateful, but still I don't want reincarnation.  To be close to God is far better than anything here in this life. 

And don't we pray the Litanies all the time, "help us, save us, protect us, have mercy on us and keep us o God by Your grace."
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Then it is done, no matter how brave its warriors nor how strong their weapons -- Cheyenne proverb

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #55 on: May 14, 2016, 01:03:55 PM »
I talked with my priest, he say that there is no reincarnation.

But I still believe that there is reincarnation.

Why?
Because you like the idea, or because you've seen some evidence to support it?

Because I like the idea.

In that case, I believe I'm invisible, and can fly.  :o
I believe I can fly. I believe I can touch the sky.

Do you think about it every night and day?
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #56 on: May 14, 2016, 02:11:36 PM »
I talked with my priest, he say that there is no reincarnation.

But I still believe that there is reincarnation.

Why?
Because you like the idea, or because you've seen some evidence to support it?

Because I like the idea.

In that case, I believe I'm invisible, and can fly.  :o
I believe I can fly. I believe I can touch the sky.

Do you think about it every night and day?
No, but I have dreamed of growing another 8 inches taller and playing basketball alongside the likes of Bugs Bunny, Lola Bunny, Daffy Duck, and Bill Murray.
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline hecma925

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #57 on: May 14, 2016, 02:14:19 PM »
I talked with my priest, he say that there is no reincarnation.

But I still believe that there is reincarnation.

Why?
Because you like the idea, or because you've seen some evidence to support it?

Because I like the idea.

In that case, I believe I'm invisible, and can fly.  :o
I believe I can fly. I believe I can touch the sky.

Do you think about it every night and day?
No, but I have dreamed of growing another 8 inches taller and playing basketball alongside the likes of Bugs Bunny, Lola Bunny, Daffy Duck, and Bill Murray.

Basketball with Bill Murray would be pretty fun.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

Offline Indocern

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #58 on: May 15, 2016, 07:06:15 AM »
Why then it is say that some people will be still alive in the end times in the Bible? Why then there is judgement after a person die, and again judgement after he is suffered in hell, is it right? Why then it will be judgement day, if there is judgement after he die?
« Last Edit: May 15, 2016, 07:36:28 AM by Indocern »

Offline Arachne

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #59 on: May 15, 2016, 07:12:04 AM »
This discussion might help.
'Evil isn't the real threat to the world. Stupid is just as destructive as evil, maybe more so, and it's a hell of a lot more common. What we really need is a crusade against stupid. That might actually make a difference.'~Harry Dresden

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Offline Indocern

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #60 on: May 15, 2016, 07:16:03 AM »
This discussion might help.

There is no repentance after death.

Offline Arachne

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #61 on: May 15, 2016, 07:17:28 AM »
This discussion might help.

There is no repentance after death.

You might want to read more slowly. You will understand more.
'Evil isn't the real threat to the world. Stupid is just as destructive as evil, maybe more so, and it's a hell of a lot more common. What we really need is a crusade against stupid. That might actually make a difference.'~Harry Dresden

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Offline Indocern

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #62 on: May 15, 2016, 07:44:32 AM »
This discussion might help.

There is no repentance after death.

You might want to read more slowly. You will understand more.

Yes I will read it.

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #63 on: May 15, 2016, 10:41:32 AM »
This discussion might help.

There is no repentance after death.
You can't believe both in reincarnation and that there is no repentance after death, for the two beliefs contradict each other. If we return to this world to live another life like this one, where repentance is possible, then there is repentance after death. In fact, with reincarnation there is no real sense of the concept of death.
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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #64 on: May 16, 2016, 12:19:12 AM »
I talked with my priest, he say that there is no reincarnation.

But I still believe that there is reincarnation.

Why?
Because you like the idea, or because you've seen some evidence to support it?

Because I like the idea.

In that case, I believe I'm invisible, and can fly.  :o
I believe I can fly. I believe I can touch the sky.

Do you think about it every night and day?
No, but I have dreamed of growing another 8 inches taller and playing basketball alongside the likes of Bugs Bunny, Lola Bunny, Daffy Duck, and Bill Murray.

Weren't you a bit old for Space Jam?  :P
Axios and many years to you, Fr. Trenham!

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #65 on: May 16, 2016, 12:44:13 AM »
I talked with my priest, he say that there is no reincarnation.

But I still believe that there is reincarnation.

Why?
Because you like the idea, or because you've seen some evidence to support it?

Because I like the idea.

In that case, I believe I'm invisible, and can fly.  :o
I believe I can fly. I believe I can touch the sky.

Do you think about it every night and day?
No, but I have dreamed of growing another 8 inches taller and playing basketball alongside the likes of Bugs Bunny, Lola Bunny, Daffy Duck, and Bill Murray.

Weren't you a bit old for Space Jam?  :P
No
Not all who wander are lost.

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #66 on: May 19, 2016, 11:00:46 AM »
Why then it is say that some people will be still alive in the end times in the Bible?

They will. When Christ comes to the earth in his second coming. People will still be alive.


Quote
Why then there is judgement after a person die, and again judgement after he is suffered in hell, is it right?

Interesting question. I look at it this way. When a person dies they leave creation and enter into eternity. In eternity, time and space don't exist as we know it. Time and space are part of creation and the after life doesn't yield to the laws of nature or time and space. So, its very possible that at the moment of death we enter into judgement day immediately.


Quote
Why then it will be judgement day, if there is judgement after he die?
Read above.



Offline Indocern

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #67 on: May 19, 2016, 11:44:16 AM »
Why then it is say that some people will be still alive in the end times in the Bible?

They will. When Christ comes to the earth in his second coming. People will still be alive.


Quote
Why then there is judgement after a person die, and again judgement after he is suffered in hell, is it right?

Interesting question. I look at it this way. When a person dies they leave creation and enter into eternity. In eternity, time and space don't exist as we know it. Time and space are part of creation and the after life doesn't yield to the laws of nature or time and space. So, its very possible that at the moment of death we enter into judgement day immediately.


Quote
Why then it will be judgement day, if there is judgement after he die?
Read above.

If there is no time in the eternity, why then it is written:

2 Peter 3:8: But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #68 on: May 19, 2016, 01:42:43 PM »
Why then it is say that some people will be still alive in the end times in the Bible?

They will. When Christ comes to the earth in his second coming. People will still be alive.


Quote
Why then there is judgement after a person die, and again judgement after he is suffered in hell, is it right?

Interesting question. I look at it this way. When a person dies they leave creation and enter into eternity. In eternity, time and space don't exist as we know it. Time and space are part of creation and the after life doesn't yield to the laws of nature or time and space. So, its very possible that at the moment of death we enter into judgement day immediately.


Quote
Why then it will be judgement day, if there is judgement after he die?
Read above.

If there is no time in the eternity, why then it is written:

2 Peter 3:8: But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
To demonstrate how God relates to time as one outside of time?
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline Indocern

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #69 on: May 19, 2016, 02:39:33 PM »
Why then it is say that some people will be still alive in the end times in the Bible?

They will. When Christ comes to the earth in his second coming. People will still be alive.


Quote
Why then there is judgement after a person die, and again judgement after he is suffered in hell, is it right?

Interesting question. I look at it this way. When a person dies they leave creation and enter into eternity. In eternity, time and space don't exist as we know it. Time and space are part of creation and the after life doesn't yield to the laws of nature or time and space. So, its very possible that at the moment of death we enter into judgement day immediately.


Quote
Why then it will be judgement day, if there is judgement after he die?
Read above.

If there is no time in the eternity, why then it is written:

2 Peter 3:8: But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
To demonstrate how God relates to time as one outside of time?

What will you say about the days, that God created the world in the six days and He rest on the seventh day, is this not a time?

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #70 on: May 19, 2016, 03:06:39 PM »
Why then it is say that some people will be still alive in the end times in the Bible?

They will. When Christ comes to the earth in his second coming. People will still be alive.


Quote
Why then there is judgement after a person die, and again judgement after he is suffered in hell, is it right?

Interesting question. I look at it this way. When a person dies they leave creation and enter into eternity. In eternity, time and space don't exist as we know it. Time and space are part of creation and the after life doesn't yield to the laws of nature or time and space. So, its very possible that at the moment of death we enter into judgement day immediately.


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Why then it will be judgement day, if there is judgement after he die?
Read above.

If there is no time in the eternity, why then it is written:

2 Peter 3:8: But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
To demonstrate how God relates to time as one outside of time?

What will you say about the days, that God created the world in the six days and He rest on the seventh day, is this not a time?
Does God wear a wristwatch?
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline Indocern

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #71 on: May 19, 2016, 03:32:34 PM »
Why then it is say that some people will be still alive in the end times in the Bible?

They will. When Christ comes to the earth in his second coming. People will still be alive.


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Why then there is judgement after a person die, and again judgement after he is suffered in hell, is it right?

Interesting question. I look at it this way. When a person dies they leave creation and enter into eternity. In eternity, time and space don't exist as we know it. Time and space are part of creation and the after life doesn't yield to the laws of nature or time and space. So, its very possible that at the moment of death we enter into judgement day immediately.


Quote
Why then it will be judgement day, if there is judgement after he die?
Read above.

If there is no time in the eternity, why then it is written:

2 Peter 3:8: But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
To demonstrate how God relates to time as one outside of time?

What will you say about the days, that God created the world in the six days and He rest on the seventh day, is this not a time?
Does God wear a wristwatch?

No.

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #72 on: May 19, 2016, 03:45:36 PM »
Why then it is say that some people will be still alive in the end times in the Bible?

They will. When Christ comes to the earth in his second coming. People will still be alive.


Quote
Why then there is judgement after a person die, and again judgement after he is suffered in hell, is it right?

Interesting question. I look at it this way. When a person dies they leave creation and enter into eternity. In eternity, time and space don't exist as we know it. Time and space are part of creation and the after life doesn't yield to the laws of nature or time and space. So, its very possible that at the moment of death we enter into judgement day immediately.


Quote
Why then it will be judgement day, if there is judgement after he die?
Read above.

If there is no time in the eternity, why then it is written:

2 Peter 3:8: But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
To demonstrate how God relates to time as one outside of time?

What will you say about the days, that God created the world in the six days and He rest on the seventh day, is this not a time?
Does God wear a wristwatch?

No.
I think, then, that you just answered your own question.
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline Indocern

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #73 on: February 18, 2017, 05:14:07 AM »
Deleted.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2017, 05:15:00 AM by Indocern »

Offline WPM

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #74 on: February 18, 2017, 07:05:43 AM »
Reminds me to study up on the Buddhism doctrine of Rebirth.
Learn meditation.

Offline WPM

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Re: Do you believe in reborning?
« Reply #75 on: February 18, 2017, 07:09:56 AM »
I talked with my priest, he say that there is no reincarnation.

But I still believe that there is reincarnation.

Just because a priest thinks so doesn't mean its true.
Learn meditation.