Author Topic: What is "dogma"?  (Read 532 times)

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Offline minasoliman

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What is "dogma"?
« on: September 04, 2014, 02:28:36 PM »
I was curious to know something.  I pretty much went with the assumption that the Orthodox and the Roman Catholics define "dogma" the same way.  But I wonder if we do in fact define it the same way.  What is "dogma"?  Is it necessary to believe in, or are there some "dogmas" that are "more necessary" than others?
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Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: What is "dogma"?
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2014, 02:46:47 PM »
My understanding is that dogma is what makes the faith the faith.  If any dogma were removed, it would no longer be that faith, but another. For example, we cannot remove the Creed and still have Orthodoxy because it is dogma. Someone could, however disbelieve in toll houses and still be Orthodox. I don't know if some dogmas are more important than others, but I think some or better defined than others.  The sinlessness of the Theotokos I believe would be dogma, but how exactly that is understood can vary by degrees. St. John Chrysostom's understanding of her sinlessness is different than say, St. Ephraem the Syrian.
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Offline minasoliman

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Re: What is "dogma"?
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2014, 02:48:59 PM »
Well one can mention some facts or contemplations about certain people.  I'm not sure that makes it "dogmatic", but perhaps there's an underlying virtue behind the belief.  I tend to see dogma as that which is necessary for the spiritual development of the Christian.  That's why some things Roman Catholics define as "dogma" I don't see as "necessary".  Maybe, I thought, it's because we define dogma differently than they do?
« Last Edit: September 04, 2014, 02:50:48 PM by minasoliman »
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline MarianCatholic

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Re: What is "dogma"?
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2014, 07:27:49 AM »
Since the OP are posting in the Orthodox - Catholic forum I'm taking the liberty to answer how the Catholic Church defines dogma.
Dogma are in the eyes of the church considered to be undeniable truths about the faith (one cant be catholic without so to say).
So if one does not believe in one of (or several of) the dogmas made by the church one are excommunicated.
At this point its necessary to distinguish between two things:

# If one don't understand some of the dogmas and maybe even disagree with them, but in humility accept that the Church who are being led by the Holy Spirit has the right to define the truth of the faith and always keep our church free of dogmatic- errors. One would then end up in a "I don't fully understand" kinda attitude which is perfectly fine by the church, then our mission as Catholics are to search deeper within our Church's tradition and scripture (also the Catechism) in order to fully understand why the church has its teachings.

" The second point goes like this:
If One does not accept a certain dogma (or several) and also disregard the authority of the Church, saying that the Pope and the councils are wrong to decide a dogma then one is automatically excommunicated (no ifs and buts) as this is a way of denying the truth of the church.
This you could say is a very prideful act when one does put themeselves about the Holy See and without any mandate choose to unjustified take matters into own hands.
This is a grave sin which will lead to your eternal damnation (loosing out on salvation) if one does not repent and once again steps into full communion with the church.


About Dogmas and how their being made.
Dogmas are truths of the faith who everyone has agreed to until at some point when fractions of the faithful have been heavily questioning the particular teaching of the church (often by Religious orders).
This has made it necessary to decide wether or not it should continue to be a truth or dismissed altogether.
Dogmas are made when the Pope investigate the Sacred Tradition and the Holy Bible and pray about it and then decide to make it a "dogma" (a undeniable truth of the Catholic faith) and from the moment that has happened it applies to all Catholics.
Therefor there aren't really too many dogmas made by the Church as this arguments/ discussions doesn't happen to often.

Also the Pope cant just "make up his own dogmas" as his decision has to be justified by references to the Holy Bible and the Sacred Tradition.
It is also Worth knowing that it has to be a disagreement in order for the pope to start the proses of making something a dogma or not.









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Offline TSchristian

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Re: What is "dogma"?
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2014, 12:21:00 PM »
I was curious to know something.  I pretty much went with the assumption that the Orthodox and the Roman Catholics define "dogma" the same way.  But I wonder if we do in fact define it the same way.  What is "dogma"?  Is it necessary to believe in, or are there some "dogmas" that are "more necessary" than others?

Here is a list of Catholic doctrine from Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma by Dr Ludwig Ott, http://jloughnan.tripod.com/dogma.htm

Not everything in the list is De Fide, but it doesn't have to be to enjoy assent.  Here is a list of the Theological Grades of Certainty from the same book, http://www.catholictreasury.info/quote4.htm it explains the different levels of authority particular doctrines have. Some things need not authoritative definitions that it must be believed; simply that if the Pope and the Bishops in union with him teach something ordinarily and universally, such a teaching must be believed (even Vatican II stated as much in LG 25.)

Offline WPM

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Re: What is "dogma"?
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2014, 12:31:49 PM »
Quote
   
What is "dogma"?


Official church teaching that surmises a belief in specific doctrine.
« Last Edit: September 05, 2014, 12:32:27 PM by WPM »
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