Author Topic: Question about Athanasian Creed  (Read 470 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Godspell

  • Arch-layman
  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 238
Question about Athanasian Creed
« on: August 25, 2014, 09:28:16 PM »
Do Orthodox use or believe in the Athanasian Creed? If so...

In reviewing the Athanasian Creed, I have a question regarding its implications for faith and particularly for scholasticism.

Primarily I am wondering about the first line:

"Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled; without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the catholic faith is this..."

Now, what is worrying me is that I have come to understand that having a true or perfect understanding of God, is not only unnecessary but also impossible. For me, I've felt like the important aspect of faith is growth is understanding. So, how does this relate to the Creed?

Or, is this creed considered a deviation from the Orthodox faith emphasizing mystery?
Just as the thought of fire does not warm the body, so faith without love does not actualize the light of spiritual knowledge in the soul.

Just as the light of the sun attracts a healthy eye, so through love knowledge of God naturally draws to itself the pure intellect.

– St Maximos

Offline Mor Ephrem

  • The Fourteenth Apostle and Judge of the Interwebs
  • Moderator
  • Protostrator
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,956
  • All who love ZZ, honour ZZ!
    • OrthodoxChristianity.net
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: But my heart belongs to Czech Lands
Re: Question about Athanasian Creed
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2014, 10:19:53 PM »
Now, what is worrying me is that I have come to understand that having a true or perfect understanding of God, is not only unnecessary but also impossible. For me, I've felt like the important aspect of faith is growth is understanding. So, how does this relate to the Creed?

Or, is this creed considered a deviation from the Orthodox faith emphasizing mystery?

We cannot fully comprehend God, but there are things we can know about him because he has revealed them to us.  But that revelation, as we have received it, is not always self-evident.  For example, both Orthodox and Arians cited Scripture to support their beliefs.   

Leaving aside this particular Creed, the point of any Creed is to summarise our faith and what we can say about it or how we can express it, and in doing so it delineates the limits or the boundaries within which we understand properly.     
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

New thread topic.  Rate the sexual attractiveness of members of OC.net on a scale of 1-10.

Mor Ephrem: 11/10

Offline MalpanaGiwargis

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 180
  • Māran etraḥam 'lay!
  • Faith: Orthodox inquirer
Re: Question about Athanasian Creed
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2014, 11:10:40 PM »
Do Orthodox use or believe in the Athanasian Creed?

I can't imagine any Orthodox using it, since it explicitly teaches the filioque: "Spiritus Sanctus a Patre et Filio: non factus, nec creatus, nec genitus, sed procedens" ("The Holy Spirit [is] from the Father and the Son: neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding")
Woe is me, that I have read the commandments,
   and have become learned in the Scriptures,
and have been instructed in Your glories,
   and yet I have become occupied in shameful things!

(Giwargis Warda, On Compunction of Soul)

Offline NicholasMyra

  • Avowed denominationalist
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,713
  • Nepsis or Sepsis™
    • Hyperdox Herman
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian+Greek
Re: Question about Athanasian Creed
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2014, 11:14:05 PM »
Do Orthodox use or believe in the Athanasian Creed? If so...

In reviewing the Athanasian Creed, I have a question regarding its implications for faith and particularly for scholasticism.

Primarily I am wondering about the first line:

"Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith. Which faith except every one do keep whole and undefiled; without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the catholic faith is this..."

Now, what is worrying me is that I have come to understand that having a true or perfect understanding of God, is not only unnecessary but also impossible. For me, I've felt like the important aspect of faith is growth is understanding. So, how does this relate to the Creed?

Or, is this creed considered a deviation from the Orthodox faith emphasizing mystery?
It has more polemical force against the Visigoths if it has that incipit line.
Vote for a Ministry section on OC.net

Πάντα μὲν καθαρὰ τοῖς καθαροῖς
Τοῖς δὲ μεμιασμένοις καὶ ἀπίστοις οὐδὲν καθαρόν

Offline Iconodule

  • Uranopolitan
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 8,010
  • "My god is greater."
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Ecumenical Patriarchate (ACROD)
Re: Question about Athanasian Creed
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2014, 07:20:38 AM »
This creed appears, for some reason, at the beginning of Russian editions of the Psalter (but without the filioque).

Offline Alveus Lacuna

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,098
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: OCA
Re: Question about Athanasian Creed
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2014, 08:41:12 AM »
This creed appears, for some reason, at the beginning of Russian editions of the Psalter (but without the filioque).

Western Captivity!

Offline Shanghaiski

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,978
  • Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia
Re: Question about Athanasian Creed
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2014, 01:01:04 PM »
The filioque was added to the creed later. This editing happened in several Western texts, including the ancient hymn for Pentecost, "Veni, Creator Spiritus."
Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.

Offline NicholasMyra

  • Avowed denominationalist
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,713
  • Nepsis or Sepsis™
    • Hyperdox Herman
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian+Greek
Re: Question about Athanasian Creed
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2014, 01:22:29 PM »
The filioque was added to the creed later.
Do we have older versions without it?
Vote for a Ministry section on OC.net

Πάντα μὲν καθαρὰ τοῖς καθαροῖς
Τοῖς δὲ μεμιασμένοις καὶ ἀπίστοις οὐδὲν καθαρόν

Offline Alpo

  • Lying Chalcedonian Liar
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,825
Re: Question about Athanasian Creed
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2014, 02:17:23 PM »
This creed appears, for some reason, at the beginning of Russian editions of the Psalter (but without the filioque).

Western Captivity!

"You'd better watch out, you'd better not cry..."
Quote from: Severian
the people on this forum have to stop taking themselves so seriously. None of us are some modern-day Athanasius, we all just have nothing better to do.