OrthodoxChristianity.net
October 31, 2014, 12:01:22 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: What is Sin?  (Read 700 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Skydive
Moderated
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 503



« on: August 31, 2014, 03:18:03 PM »

What is sin? Why is Sin a "no-no" ?
Logged

"I will not attack your doctrines nor your creeds if they accord liberty to me. If they hold thought to be dangerous - if they aver that doubt is a crime, then I attack them one and all, because they enslave the minds of men."

Robert Green Ingersoll
xOrthodox4Christx
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Protestant (Inquirer)
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Christianity
Posts: 3,398



« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2014, 03:21:09 PM »

Self-alienation from God.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2014, 03:24:30 PM by xOrthodox4Christx » Logged

"Years ago I recognized my kinship with all living beings, and I made up my mind that I was not one bit better than the meanest on earth.... While there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element, I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free." (Eugene Debs)
Skydive
Moderated
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 503



« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2014, 03:43:06 PM »

Self-alienation from God.

how does that happen?
Logged

"I will not attack your doctrines nor your creeds if they accord liberty to me. If they hold thought to be dangerous - if they aver that doubt is a crime, then I attack them one and all, because they enslave the minds of men."

Robert Green Ingersoll
Georgii
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ROCOR, German Diocese
Posts: 248


« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2014, 04:12:26 PM »

Self-alienation from God.

how does that happen?

We take the easier and/or more immediately attractive way.
Logged

my garment accuses me, for it is not a wedding garment
Maria
Orthodox Christian
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,304


O most Holy Theotokos, save us.


« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2014, 04:16:51 PM »

Sin is missing the mark (the bullseye) or a lack of perfection.

We are to be perfect as the Heavenly Father is perfect.
Logged

Glory to Jesus Christ!
Glory to Him forever!
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Online Online

Posts: 17,960


The Pope Emeritus reading OCNet


WWW
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2014, 04:21:40 PM »

What is sin? Why is Sin a "no-no" ?

Is self-destruction a good thing?  If not, I don't see why this is even a question. 
Logged

Still posting.

Apolytikion, Tone 1, by Antonis

An eloquent crafter of divine posts
And an inheritor of the line of the Baptist
A righteous son of India
And a new apostle to the internet
O Holy Mor Ephrem,
Intercede for us, that our forum may be saved.


Mor Ephrem > Justin Kissel
minasoliman
Mr., Sir, Dude, Guy, Male, tr. Minas in Greek, Menes in white people Egyptologists :-P
Moderator
Toumarches
*****
Online Online

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic Orthodox Archdiocese of North America
Posts: 12,335


Strengthen O Lord the work of Your hands(Is 19:25)


WWW
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2014, 04:28:34 PM »

Self-alienation from God.

how does that happen?
by skydiving
Logged

Vain existence can never exist, for \\\"unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain.\\\" (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.
WPM
Revolutionary Writer
Warned
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,578



« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2014, 05:16:06 PM »

Stuff that moves you away from God (disobedience) ...
Logged
Porter ODoran
Erst Amish Appalachian
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catechumen
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese
Posts: 2,000


Lord have mercy. Lord have mercy. Lord have mercy.


« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2014, 08:13:27 PM »

A few thoughts. Sin is error, altho the later understanding of the word is as guilty error. Limited by his mortal nature, man does not know what is good for him and what is not good. Infected by demons, what he does know is good for him he does not do. Sin is also the whole system of error in which mankind toils, a slave to it, although this is also often called just the world. The Church makes an extraordinary claim, to be able to heal man of sin and to guide him in this world of sin. This is a verifiable claim, to use the modernist terminology, and thus daring as well as extraordinary ...
Logged

In love did God create the world; in love does he guide it ...; in love is he going wondrously to transform it. --Abba Isaac

Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity. --Climacus
Skydive
Moderated
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 503



« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2014, 09:52:38 AM »

You'll have to define what is Sin, why is Sin and how is Sin. If you know of course Smiley..
Logged

"I will not attack your doctrines nor your creeds if they accord liberty to me. If they hold thought to be dangerous - if they aver that doubt is a crime, then I attack them one and all, because they enslave the minds of men."

Robert Green Ingersoll
Skydive
Moderated
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 503



« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2014, 09:53:57 AM »

Sin is missing the mark (the bullseye) or a lack of perfection.

We are to be perfect as the Heavenly Father is perfect.

I don't play darts. Smiley
Logged

"I will not attack your doctrines nor your creeds if they accord liberty to me. If they hold thought to be dangerous - if they aver that doubt is a crime, then I attack them one and all, because they enslave the minds of men."

Robert Green Ingersoll
Skydive
Moderated
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 503



« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2014, 09:55:16 AM »


Didn't God skydive into the Incarnation?
Logged

"I will not attack your doctrines nor your creeds if they accord liberty to me. If they hold thought to be dangerous - if they aver that doubt is a crime, then I attack them one and all, because they enslave the minds of men."

Robert Green Ingersoll
Skydive
Moderated
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 503



« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2014, 09:59:36 AM »

What is sin? Why is Sin a "no-no" ?

Is self-destruction a good thing?  If not, I don't see why this is even a question. 

If don't see why anyone wouldn't see why this is not a serious and vital question to the theological approach.

One of us is blind. Smiley Last time I checked...
Logged

"I will not attack your doctrines nor your creeds if they accord liberty to me. If they hold thought to be dangerous - if they aver that doubt is a crime, then I attack them one and all, because they enslave the minds of men."

Robert Green Ingersoll
biro
Site Supporter
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 14,188


« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2014, 09:59:46 AM »

I've been told that every time you sin, if you don't repent and confess, you weaken your soul a little bit. It doesn't take much for what started as one error to develop into a massive bad habit.

There was this time I had an argument with my mother. The first day, I thought I was right. I showed her!  Sad The second day, I felt physically ill. I called her and told her I was sorry.


Exodus 20:12 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

12 Honour thy father and thy mother, that thou mayest be longlived upon the land which the Lord thy God will give thee.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+20%3A12&version=DRA


If I hadn't done that, who knows how long the problem would have festered? There are families that separate over little things.

Logged

Not posting
LBK
Warned
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 11,266


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!


« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2014, 10:02:03 AM »


He certainly didn't sin Himself into it.  Roll Eyes
Logged
Fabio Leite
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 3,207



WWW
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2014, 10:05:39 AM »

To sin is to accept self-destruction and death just because there's no God "bossing" you around there.

When we indulge in destructive habits we are sinning.

When we learn to feel truly, really happy from destructive habits that is sin.

When we harden our hearts and decide that we *will* be happy with the habits and life that we chose regardless if that is real or not, that is damnation.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2014, 10:06:54 AM by Fabio Leite » Logged

Many Energies, Three Persons, Two Natures, One God.
quietmorning
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 2,349


St. Photini


WWW
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2014, 10:21:33 AM »

You'll have to define what is Sin, why is Sin and how is Sin. If you know of course Smiley..

In order to answer your question in the way you request the answer to be defined, then you will have to look at the Law of Moses.  The law was given in order to show the children of Israel what sin is - and it brought death.  

But it's much much more than a guidebook of right and wrong - much much more than a penal code.  It's much more than breaking the law.

Lawlessness is sin.  

but so is Faithlessness (Romans 14:23) as faithlessness - is also DEATH.  Living without faith in God is sure death.

If you don't have love then you have nothing - no life in you.  (1 Corinthians 13) If you have no life, then you have death - refusing to love - is sin.

You cannot have life apart from God - who is life and who has life in and of Himself.  Apart from God, you are dead.  You receive this life through Christ, our Lord - without Christ, you are dead.  

The wages - the payment or consequence of sin is death.  (Romans 6:23)

He gave birth to a new being when we died and were born again in Him.  He filled us with His Holy Spirit that we might know what sin is - from our conscience that tells us and rightfully so, when we decide to be the god we serve or when He actually is.   When we are self serving, we don't love, when we don't love, do not have God as He IS love (1 John 4:eight (silly smiley faces!) ) - if we do  not have God, we do not have LIFE and we are DEAD.

He writes His Law on our hearts, He has given us His Holy Church to guide us, He has given us the Clergy, the Traditions, the Bible, the Divine Liturgy, The Sacraments, The Feasts, The Fasts - all to help us because He loves us so very very much.  

But most of all, He gave His only Begotten Son that who so ever believes in Him will not perish (DEATH) and will receive eternal life (LIFE).  (John 3:16)

So that we might be forgiven and be reconciled to him when we do decide to taste death. . .walk as a living dead, as it were.

Sin is turning away from God (the only source of TRUE LIFE) in ANY capacity.  Sin is choosing to die spiritually and using the worship of ourselves and the world as the excuse to do so.





 
« Last Edit: September 01, 2014, 10:34:12 AM by quietmorning » Logged

In His Mercy,
BethAnna
quietmorning
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 2,349


St. Photini


WWW
« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2014, 10:28:11 AM »

PS - one more thought to complete.  

Those that have not been reborn in Christ Jesus are ALREADY DEAD. . .so their sin is of no avail until they become living beings.  There is no loss as you can't kill what's already dead.  

They are already on the path of destruction - but even worse, they do not have the Holy Spirit of TRUTH to guide them to actions fill them with LIFE.  

So - it can be said that once saved always saved is a trip up to those of us who are born anew. . . as just as sin kills us, so does piety bring us into His presence and Life.  It is as much a sin to not LIVE and LIVE FULLY in Him.  
« Last Edit: September 01, 2014, 10:32:31 AM by quietmorning » Logged

In His Mercy,
BethAnna
Jetavan
Argumentum ad australopithecum
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Science to the Fourth Power
Jurisdiction: Ohayo Gozaimasu
Posts: 6,580


Barlaam and Josaphat


WWW
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2014, 11:12:42 AM »

I think there's an "Undo Sin" button in Gmail -- but it works only up to 20 seconds after you sin.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2014, 11:38:02 AM by Jetavan » Logged

If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
minasoliman
Mr., Sir, Dude, Guy, Male, tr. Minas in Greek, Menes in white people Egyptologists :-P
Moderator
Toumarches
*****
Online Online

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic Orthodox Archdiocese of North America
Posts: 12,335


Strengthen O Lord the work of Your hands(Is 19:25)


WWW
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2014, 11:18:33 AM »

No you misunderstood. Some words have more than one meaning. Sometimes it could mean Shiny or Geh, maybe...I'm not all too sure.

But if you're sincere, go visit a priest.
Logged

Vain existence can never exist, for \\\"unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain.\\\" (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.
biro
Site Supporter
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 14,188


« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2014, 11:36:46 AM »

I think there's an "Undo Sin" button in Gmail -- but it works only 20 seconds after you sin.

Zing

 laugh
Logged

Not posting
quietmorning
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 2,349


St. Photini


WWW
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2014, 11:48:44 AM »

I think there's an "Undo Sin" button in Gmail -- but it works only up to 20 seconds after you sin.

WHERE???!!! I need to find it RIGHT NOW!!! AND PUSH IT . . .AND PUSH IT AND PUSH IT.   laugh laugh laugh laugh
Logged

In His Mercy,
BethAnna
Skydive
Moderated
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 503



« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2014, 12:12:18 PM »

I think there's an "Undo Sin" button in Gmail -- but it works only up to 20 seconds after you sin.

I don't think u think.. that..
Logged

"I will not attack your doctrines nor your creeds if they accord liberty to me. If they hold thought to be dangerous - if they aver that doubt is a crime, then I attack them one and all, because they enslave the minds of men."

Robert Green Ingersoll
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Online Online

Posts: 17,960


The Pope Emeritus reading OCNet


WWW
« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2014, 12:42:31 PM »

What is sin? Why is Sin a "no-no" ?

Is self-destruction a good thing?  If not, I don't see why this is even a question. 

If don't see why anyone wouldn't see why this is not a serious and vital question to the theological approach.

One of us is blind. Smiley Last time I checked...

Do you see better now?
Logged

Still posting.

Apolytikion, Tone 1, by Antonis

An eloquent crafter of divine posts
And an inheritor of the line of the Baptist
A righteous son of India
And a new apostle to the internet
O Holy Mor Ephrem,
Intercede for us, that our forum may be saved.


Mor Ephrem > Justin Kissel
Skydive
Moderated
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 503



« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2014, 12:47:57 PM »

What is sin? Why is Sin a "no-no" ?

Is self-destruction a good thing?  If not, I don't see why this is even a question. 

If don't see why anyone wouldn't see why this is not a serious and vital question to the theological approach.

One of us is blind. Smiley Last time I checked...

Do you see better now?

I meant you  Roll Eyes
Logged

"I will not attack your doctrines nor your creeds if they accord liberty to me. If they hold thought to be dangerous - if they aver that doubt is a crime, then I attack them one and all, because they enslave the minds of men."

Robert Green Ingersoll
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Online Online

Posts: 17,960


The Pope Emeritus reading OCNet


WWW
« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2014, 12:49:48 PM »

What is sin? Why is Sin a "no-no" ?

Is self-destruction a good thing?  If not, I don't see why this is even a question. 

If don't see why anyone wouldn't see why this is not a serious and vital question to the theological approach.

One of us is blind. Smiley Last time I checked...

Do you see better now?

I meant you  Roll Eyes

I know.  I guess you are both blind and unable to read.
Logged

Still posting.

Apolytikion, Tone 1, by Antonis

An eloquent crafter of divine posts
And an inheritor of the line of the Baptist
A righteous son of India
And a new apostle to the internet
O Holy Mor Ephrem,
Intercede for us, that our forum may be saved.


Mor Ephrem > Justin Kissel
Skydive
Moderated
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 503



« Reply #26 on: September 01, 2014, 12:58:11 PM »

What is sin? Why is Sin a "no-no" ?

Is self-destruction a good thing?  If not, I don't see why this is even a question. 

If don't see why anyone wouldn't see why this is not a serious and vital question to the theological approach.

One of us is blind. Smiley Last time I checked...

Do you see better now?

I meant you  Roll Eyes

I know.  I guess you are both blind and unable to read.

Where i come from we don't eat rats and cover ourselves in cow dung and urine.
Logged

"I will not attack your doctrines nor your creeds if they accord liberty to me. If they hold thought to be dangerous - if they aver that doubt is a crime, then I attack them one and all, because they enslave the minds of men."

Robert Green Ingersoll
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Online Online

Posts: 17,960


The Pope Emeritus reading OCNet


WWW
« Reply #27 on: September 01, 2014, 01:51:44 PM »

What is sin? Why is Sin a "no-no" ?

Is self-destruction a good thing?  If not, I don't see why this is even a question. 

If don't see why anyone wouldn't see why this is not a serious and vital question to the theological approach.

One of us is blind. Smiley Last time I checked...

Do you see better now?

I meant you  Roll Eyes

I know.  I guess you are both blind and unable to read.

Where i come from we don't eat rats and cover ourselves in cow dung and urine.

That's not what your mom said last night.
Logged

Still posting.

Apolytikion, Tone 1, by Antonis

An eloquent crafter of divine posts
And an inheritor of the line of the Baptist
A righteous son of India
And a new apostle to the internet
O Holy Mor Ephrem,
Intercede for us, that our forum may be saved.


Mor Ephrem > Justin Kissel
Maria
Orthodox Christian
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,304


O most Holy Theotokos, save us.


« Reply #28 on: September 01, 2014, 02:14:35 PM »

Sin is missing the mark (the bullseye) or a lack of perfection.

We are to be perfect as the Heavenly Father is perfect.

I don't play darts. Smiley

« Last Edit: September 01, 2014, 02:14:54 PM by Maria » Logged

Glory to Jesus Christ!
Glory to Him forever!
quietmorning
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 2,349


St. Photini


WWW
« Reply #29 on: September 01, 2014, 02:24:22 PM »

Ok. I'm going to take a flying stab at this - on a philosophical level (word of warning - I don't even pretend to know what that means.)

I submit that on a civil level - sin is the disregard for the cultural norm.  It is a direct affront to established civil set of behaviors. 

Pedophilia would be a current cultural norm affront.

I also submit on a religious level - including any religion that it is a disregard for the religious established norm set by the said faith. 

(Which is one thing that sets Christianity apart from other world religions. . . )

I have no set of 'proofs' - this is a submission for discussion.  Though, honestly, to me this is a bit on the worthless side as the world as we know it is passing away, along with all the cultural norms and world religions. 

But. . . if I look back at history - there was a statement of 'sin' in each of the early cultures.  They were not of the Judeo origin.  If I look closer, most of their kings were 'gods' and they set the law of the land. 

If I look very very close, there was still the 'unwritten law' of the land - that the culture itself set.

So. . .

:-/  I'm getting some popcorn and will sit back and watch some of you philosophy guru's go at it (please Smiley ) - perhaps what is being asked for here might actually get resolved. 

Please forgive. . .
Logged

In His Mercy,
BethAnna
Skydive
Moderated
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 503



« Reply #30 on: September 01, 2014, 03:03:03 PM »

Ok. I'm going to take a flying stab at this - on a philosophical level (word of warning - I don't even pretend to know what that means.)

I submit that on a civil level - sin is the disregard for the cultural norm.  It is a direct affront to established civil set of behaviors. 

Pedophilia would be a current cultural norm affront.

I also submit on a religious level - including any religion that it is a disregard for the religious established norm set by the said faith. 

(Which is one thing that sets Christianity apart from other world religions. . . )

I have no set of 'proofs' - this is a submission for discussion.  Though, honestly, to me this is a bit on the worthless side as the world as we know it is passing away, along with all the cultural norms and world religions. 

But. . . if I look back at history - there was a statement of 'sin' in each of the early cultures.  They were not of the Judeo origin.  If I look closer, most of their kings were 'gods' and they set the law of the land. 

If I look very very close, there was still the 'unwritten law' of the land - that the culture itself set.

So. . .

:-/  I'm getting some popcorn and will sit back and watch some of you philosophy guru's go at it (please Smiley ) - perhaps what is being asked for here might actually get resolved. 

Please forgive. . .


That's the point of view I want this to be discussed from please.

Smiley
Logged

"I will not attack your doctrines nor your creeds if they accord liberty to me. If they hold thought to be dangerous - if they aver that doubt is a crime, then I attack them one and all, because they enslave the minds of men."

Robert Green Ingersoll
kelly
UNSUBSCRIBED from the world
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Genuine Kellenic Orthodox Traditionalist Church *of* America
Posts: 1,665


She considereth a field, and buyeth it.


« Reply #31 on: September 01, 2014, 03:06:53 PM »

What is sin? Why is Sin a "no-no" ?

Is self-destruction a good thing?  If not, I don't see why this is even a question. 

If don't see why anyone wouldn't see why this is not a serious and vital question to the theological approach.

One of us is blind. Smiley Last time I checked...

Do you see better now?

I meant you  Roll Eyes

I know.  I guess you are both blind and unable to read.

Where i come from we don't eat rats and cover ourselves in cow dung and urine.

That's not what your mom said last night.

I am displeased.
Logged

kelly and I spend all our free time collecting pictures of Russian monarchs.  Its a thing we do.
JamesR
Virginal Chicano Blood
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox (but doubtful)
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church *of* America
Posts: 5,774


St. Augustine of Hippo pray for me!


« Reply #32 on: September 01, 2014, 03:38:28 PM »

1) Anything that impedes upon our Theosis. Even drinking a soda when you could be praying or sleeping when you could be at Church is technically sinful.

2) It destroys you spiritually and physically in that you experience pain and misery in the presence of God's love, which is kinda similar to wind in that you either stand with it or against it.
Logged

Quote
You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.
Quote
James, you have problemz.
Porter ODoran
Erst Amish Appalachian
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catechumen
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese
Posts: 2,000


Lord have mercy. Lord have mercy. Lord have mercy.


« Reply #33 on: September 01, 2014, 03:48:41 PM »

...
...  They were not of the Judeo origin.  If I look closer, most of their kings were 'gods' and they set the law of the land. 
...

Very uncommon, actually. Most people throughout ancient history did not live in Bronze Age empires, for one thing. These eruptions of blasphemous hubris make the history books, of course, but they can't be categorized as a way of life and morals.

Most cultures (if not all cultures) would have said they learnt their way of life from the gods. If they were ambitious and had cities (still very uncommon), they would extend this to say they were founded by the gods. And, for that matter, who is to say they were wrong? Even earliest man had ways of living so uncannily-matched to his particular climate as to be miraculous. Even the strangest environments were made to yield livelihoods and cuisines of strange beauty and wholesomeness. In addition, such ways of life were so reliable as to be persisted in for millennia -- until 1500s at the earliest, in most of the world until much closer to our own day. While even the Hebrew prophet was inspired to say, "Saith the Lord, 'Have not I brought out Israel from Egypt? and the Philistines from Caphtor? and the Syrians from Kir?' "
Logged

In love did God create the world; in love does he guide it ...; in love is he going wondrously to transform it. --Abba Isaac

Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity. --Climacus
quietmorning
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 2,349


St. Photini


WWW
« Reply #34 on: September 01, 2014, 04:07:35 PM »

...
...  They were not of the Judeo origin.  If I look closer, most of their kings were 'gods' and they set the law of the land.  
...

Very uncommon, actually. Most people throughout ancient history did not live in Bronze Age empires, for one thing. These eruptions of blasphemous hubris make the history books, of course, but they can't be categorized as a way of life and morals.

Most cultures (if not all cultures) would have said they learnt their way of life from the gods. If they were ambitious and had cities (still very uncommon), they would extend this to say they were founded by the gods. And, for that matter, who is to say they were wrong? Even earliest man had ways of living so uncannily-matched to his particular climate as to be miraculous. Even the strangest environments were made to yield livelihoods and cuisines of strange beauty and wholesomeness. In addition, such ways of life were so reliable as to be persisted in for millennia -- until 1500s at the earliest, in most of the world until much closer to our own day. While even the Hebrew prophet was inspired to say, "Saith the Lord, 'Have not I brought out Israel from Egypt? and the Philistines from Caphtor? and the Syrians from Kir?' "

Ok, lets look at the civilizations that did live in the bronze age - for the sake of debate.  Or for that matter ANY civilization (was sin a defined part of the birth of civilization as we know it?) - that pre-dated the Moses and the ten commandments. . .

what caused the thought of sin to take place?

And the thought that perhaps the definition was there - did God use it to communicate something HIGHER to the people of Israel?  Hence the Law?  Was it simply a language they understood?  

**lol. .. . oye. ..my brain is hurting already.**  Wink

I've heard countless arguments of how sin was just a way for the state to control the people. . .but I don't think so.  Egypt had a very free society with it's citizens. . .comparatively. . .

so. . .

?

And then the Hebrews and the Law of Moses. . . went from simple definition to Christ's Sermon on the Mount that really looked at the condition of man instead of just the what to do/don't do and behave yourself's.  Making the thought of sin completely re-defined and utterly unique in Christianity vs the rest of the world.

Heh. . . and with this, I will excuse myself, because I am completely uneducated in the matter of debate and philosophy.  (Though i always have a ton of questions. . .curiouser and curiouser.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2014, 04:08:22 PM by quietmorning » Logged

In His Mercy,
BethAnna
Porter ODoran
Erst Amish Appalachian
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catechumen
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese
Posts: 2,000


Lord have mercy. Lord have mercy. Lord have mercy.


« Reply #35 on: September 01, 2014, 04:16:56 PM »

Since Paradise, people have always had a sense of God, of good and bad, of cultural and personal failure. This is not what made Israel special.
Logged

In love did God create the world; in love does he guide it ...; in love is he going wondrously to transform it. --Abba Isaac

Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity. --Climacus
quietmorning
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 2,349


St. Photini


WWW
« Reply #36 on: September 01, 2014, 04:21:40 PM »

Since Paradise, people have always had a sense of God, of good and bad, of cultural and personal failure. This is not what made Israel special.

So, if I understand your statement correctly - that the thought of sin, whether defined correctly or not - was because of a sense of God from the beginning. 

I'm not sure what you mean by "it's not what made Israel special".  Could you please elaborate?
Logged

In His Mercy,
BethAnna
jewish voice
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 584



« Reply #37 on: September 01, 2014, 05:12:18 PM »

Since Paradise, people have always had a sense of God, of good and bad, of cultural and personal failure. This is not what made Israel special.

So, if I understand your statement correctly - that the thought of sin, whether defined correctly or not - was because of a sense of God from the beginning. 

I'm not sure what you mean by "it's not what made Israel special".  Could you please elaborate?
in Hebrew it's called yetzer which is what every human has. Yetzer comes in two forms yetzer hara which is evil and wants to act as ego money power lust then there is yetzer hatov the good yetzer which says to man wait this don't seam right to just go after money power lust cause ego hurts others  then makes you feel guilty for wanting these things. Man must struggle with these two throughout life.
Yes since every human has yetzer so many cultures have a form of right and wrong then one must choose which yetzer to listen to. 
Logged
Porter ODoran
Erst Amish Appalachian
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catechumen
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese
Posts: 2,000


Lord have mercy. Lord have mercy. Lord have mercy.


« Reply #38 on: September 01, 2014, 05:23:11 PM »

... I'm not sure what you mean by "it's not what made Israel special". Could you please elaborate?

It has to do with the Church, of course, and I should leave an elaboration to someone better able than I to recall the Fathers.
Logged

In love did God create the world; in love does he guide it ...; in love is he going wondrously to transform it. --Abba Isaac

Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity. --Climacus
minasoliman
Mr., Sir, Dude, Guy, Male, tr. Minas in Greek, Menes in white people Egyptologists :-P
Moderator
Toumarches
*****
Online Online

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic Orthodox Archdiocese of North America
Posts: 12,335


Strengthen O Lord the work of Your hands(Is 19:25)


WWW
« Reply #39 on: September 01, 2014, 07:53:37 PM »

I know.  I guess you are both blind and unable to read.
Where i come from we don't eat rats and cover ourselves in cow dung and urine.

Where i come from we don't eat rats and cover ourselves in cow dung and urine.

That's not what your mom said last night.

Knock it off both of you.  Racist and maternal remarks are not accepted.  I ask that you both keep this away from the Religious Topics section.

God bless.

Mina
Logged

Vain existence can never exist, for \\\"unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain.\\\" (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.
yeshuaisiam
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox, Anabaptist, Other Early Christianity kind of jumbled together
Posts: 4,278


A pulling horse cannot kick.


« Reply #40 on: September 01, 2014, 11:02:44 PM »

Sin is doing your own will.
Logged

I learned how to be more frugal and save money at http://www.livingpress.com
sakura95
Love Live School Idol Festival noob :(
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Deciding between Coptic and Greek Orthodoxy
Jurisdiction: Constaninople and Alexandria
Posts: 394



« Reply #41 on: September 02, 2014, 01:20:35 AM »

I suppose Sin can be defined as an act/acts of disobedience towards God. Since God is inherently Good by nature all decrees and commands from Him must be "Good" as well in accordance with His nature. This is as expressed in Divine Revelation through the Scriptures and the Tradition of the Church. By acting oppositely of these decrees, we act in disobedience hereby committing Sin.
Logged

Lord Have Mercy on my weak and doubtful soul
Tags:
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.157 seconds with 71 queries.