Author Topic: What is Sin?  (Read 970 times)

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Offline Skydive

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What is Sin?
« on: August 31, 2014, 03:18:03 PM »
What is sin? Why is Sin a "no-no" ?
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Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: What is Sin?
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2014, 03:21:09 PM »
Self-alienation from God.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2014, 03:24:30 PM by xOrthodox4Christx »
Not everything I type or have typed in the past is reflective of the teaching of the Orthodox Church, or may not reflect my contemporary views on a subject. (4/6/2015)

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Offline Skydive

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Re: What is Sin?
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2014, 03:43:06 PM »
Self-alienation from God.

how does that happen?
Don't use your signature to complain about moderation.  -PtA

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Offline Georgii

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Re: What is Sin?
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2014, 04:12:26 PM »
Self-alienation from God.

how does that happen?

We take the easier and/or more immediately attractive way.
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Offline Maria

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Re: What is Sin?
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2014, 04:16:51 PM »
Sin is missing the mark (the bullseye) or a lack of perfection.

We are to be perfect as the Heavenly Father is perfect.
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Re: What is Sin?
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2014, 04:21:40 PM »
What is sin? Why is Sin a "no-no" ?

Is self-destruction a good thing?  If not, I don't see why this is even a question. 
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Offline minasoliman

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Re: What is Sin?
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2014, 04:28:34 PM »
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline WPM

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Re: What is Sin?
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2014, 05:16:06 PM »
Stuff that moves you away from God (disobedience) ...

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: What is Sin?
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2014, 08:13:27 PM »
A few thoughts. Sin is error, altho the later understanding of the word is as guilty error. Limited by his mortal nature, man does not know what is good for him and what is not good. Infected by demons, what he does know is good for him he does not do. Sin is also the whole system of error in which mankind toils, a slave to it, although this is also often called just the world. The Church makes an extraordinary claim, to be able to heal man of sin and to guide him in this world of sin. This is a verifiable claim, to use the modernist terminology, and thus daring as well as extraordinary ...
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Offline Skydive

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Re: What is Sin?
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2014, 09:52:38 AM »
You'll have to define what is Sin, why is Sin and how is Sin. If you know of course :)..
Don't use your signature to complain about moderation.  -PtA

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Offline Skydive

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Re: What is Sin?
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2014, 09:53:57 AM »
Sin is missing the mark (the bullseye) or a lack of perfection.

We are to be perfect as the Heavenly Father is perfect.

I don't play darts. :)
Don't use your signature to complain about moderation.  -PtA

"I will not attack your doctrines nor your creeds if they accord liberty to me. If they hold thought to be dangerous - if they aver that doubt is a crime, then I attack them one and all, because they enslave the minds of men."

Robert Green Ingersoll

Offline Skydive

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Re: What is Sin?
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2014, 09:55:16 AM »
Don't use your signature to complain about moderation.  -PtA

"I will not attack your doctrines nor your creeds if they accord liberty to me. If they hold thought to be dangerous - if they aver that doubt is a crime, then I attack them one and all, because they enslave the minds of men."

Robert Green Ingersoll

Offline Skydive

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Re: What is Sin?
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2014, 09:59:36 AM »
What is sin? Why is Sin a "no-no" ?

Is self-destruction a good thing?  If not, I don't see why this is even a question. 

If don't see why anyone wouldn't see why this is not a serious and vital question to the theological approach.

One of us is blind. :) Last time I checked...
Don't use your signature to complain about moderation.  -PtA

"I will not attack your doctrines nor your creeds if they accord liberty to me. If they hold thought to be dangerous - if they aver that doubt is a crime, then I attack them one and all, because they enslave the minds of men."

Robert Green Ingersoll

Offline biro

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Re: What is Sin?
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2014, 09:59:46 AM »
I've been told that every time you sin, if you don't repent and confess, you weaken your soul a little bit. It doesn't take much for what started as one error to develop into a massive bad habit.

There was this time I had an argument with my mother. The first day, I thought I was right. I showed her!  :( The second day, I felt physically ill. I called her and told her I was sorry.


Exodus 20:12 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

12 Honour thy father and thy mother, that thou mayest be longlived upon the land which the Lord thy God will give thee.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+20%3A12&version=DRA


If I hadn't done that, who knows how long the problem would have festered? There are families that separate over little things.

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Offline LBK

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Re: What is Sin?
« Reply #14 on: September 01, 2014, 10:02:03 AM »
No longer posting here. Anyone is welcome to PM me or email me at the address in my profile.

Offline Fabio Leite

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Re: What is Sin?
« Reply #15 on: September 01, 2014, 10:05:39 AM »
To sin is to accept self-destruction and death just because there's no God "bossing" you around there.

When we indulge in destructive habits we are sinning.

When we learn to feel truly, really happy from destructive habits that is sin.

When we harden our hearts and decide that we *will* be happy with the habits and life that we chose regardless if that is real or not, that is damnation.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2014, 10:06:54 AM by Fabio Leite »
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Offline quietmorning

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Re: What is Sin?
« Reply #16 on: September 01, 2014, 10:21:33 AM »
You'll have to define what is Sin, why is Sin and how is Sin. If you know of course :)..

In order to answer your question in the way you request the answer to be defined, then you will have to look at the Law of Moses.  The law was given in order to show the children of Israel what sin is - and it brought death.  

But it's much much more than a guidebook of right and wrong - much much more than a penal code.  It's much more than breaking the law.

Lawlessness is sin.  

but so is Faithlessness (Romans 14:23) as faithlessness - is also DEATH.  Living without faith in God is sure death.

If you don't have love then you have nothing - no life in you.  (1 Corinthians 13) If you have no life, then you have death - refusing to love - is sin.

You cannot have life apart from God - who is life and who has life in and of Himself.  Apart from God, you are dead.  You receive this life through Christ, our Lord - without Christ, you are dead.  

The wages - the payment or consequence of sin is death.  (Romans 6:23)

He gave birth to a new being when we died and were born again in Him.  He filled us with His Holy Spirit that we might know what sin is - from our conscience that tells us and rightfully so, when we decide to be the god we serve or when He actually is.   When we are self serving, we don't love, when we don't love, do not have God as He IS love (1 John 4:eight (silly smiley faces!) ) - if we do  not have God, we do not have LIFE and we are DEAD.

He writes His Law on our hearts, He has given us His Holy Church to guide us, He has given us the Clergy, the Traditions, the Bible, the Divine Liturgy, The Sacraments, The Feasts, The Fasts - all to help us because He loves us so very very much.  

But most of all, He gave His only Begotten Son that who so ever believes in Him will not perish (DEATH) and will receive eternal life (LIFE).  (John 3:16)

So that we might be forgiven and be reconciled to him when we do decide to taste death. . .walk as a living dead, as it were.

Sin is turning away from God (the only source of TRUE LIFE) in ANY capacity.  Sin is choosing to die spiritually and using the worship of ourselves and the world as the excuse to do so.





 
« Last Edit: September 01, 2014, 10:34:12 AM by quietmorning »
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Offline quietmorning

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Re: What is Sin?
« Reply #17 on: September 01, 2014, 10:28:11 AM »
PS - one more thought to complete.  

Those that have not been reborn in Christ Jesus are ALREADY DEAD. . .so their sin is of no avail until they become living beings.  There is no loss as you can't kill what's already dead.  

They are already on the path of destruction - but even worse, they do not have the Holy Spirit of TRUTH to guide them to actions fill them with LIFE.  

So - it can be said that once saved always saved is a trip up to those of us who are born anew. . . as just as sin kills us, so does piety bring us into His presence and Life.  It is as much a sin to not LIVE and LIVE FULLY in Him.  
« Last Edit: September 01, 2014, 10:32:31 AM by quietmorning »
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Offline Jetavan

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Re: What is Sin?
« Reply #18 on: September 01, 2014, 11:12:42 AM »
I think there's an "Undo Sin" button in Gmail -- but it works only up to 20 seconds after you sin.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2014, 11:38:02 AM by Jetavan »
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Offline minasoliman

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Re: What is Sin?
« Reply #19 on: September 01, 2014, 11:18:33 AM »
Self-alienation from God.

how does that happen?
by skydiving

Didn't God skydive into the Incarnation?
No you misunderstood. Some words have more than one meaning. Sometimes it could mean Shiny or Geh, maybe...I'm not all too sure.

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Offline biro

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Re: What is Sin?
« Reply #20 on: September 01, 2014, 11:36:46 AM »
I think there's an "Undo Sin" button in Gmail -- but it works only 20 seconds after you sin.

Zing

 :laugh:
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Offline quietmorning

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Re: What is Sin?
« Reply #21 on: September 01, 2014, 11:48:44 AM »
I think there's an "Undo Sin" button in Gmail -- but it works only up to 20 seconds after you sin.

WHERE???!!! I need to find it RIGHT NOW!!! AND PUSH IT . . .AND PUSH IT AND PUSH IT.   :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
In His Mercy,
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Offline Skydive

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Re: What is Sin?
« Reply #22 on: September 01, 2014, 12:12:18 PM »
I think there's an "Undo Sin" button in Gmail -- but it works only up to 20 seconds after you sin.

I don't think u think.. that..
Don't use your signature to complain about moderation.  -PtA

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Re: What is Sin?
« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2014, 12:42:31 PM »
What is sin? Why is Sin a "no-no" ?

Is self-destruction a good thing?  If not, I don't see why this is even a question. 

If don't see why anyone wouldn't see why this is not a serious and vital question to the theological approach.

One of us is blind. :) Last time I checked...

Do you see better now?
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Offline Skydive

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Re: What is Sin?
« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2014, 12:47:57 PM »
What is sin? Why is Sin a "no-no" ?

Is self-destruction a good thing?  If not, I don't see why this is even a question. 

If don't see why anyone wouldn't see why this is not a serious and vital question to the theological approach.

One of us is blind. :) Last time I checked...

Do you see better now?

I meant you  ::)
Don't use your signature to complain about moderation.  -PtA

"I will not attack your doctrines nor your creeds if they accord liberty to me. If they hold thought to be dangerous - if they aver that doubt is a crime, then I attack them one and all, because they enslave the minds of men."

Robert Green Ingersoll

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Re: What is Sin?
« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2014, 12:49:48 PM »
What is sin? Why is Sin a "no-no" ?

Is self-destruction a good thing?  If not, I don't see why this is even a question. 

If don't see why anyone wouldn't see why this is not a serious and vital question to the theological approach.

One of us is blind. :) Last time I checked...

Do you see better now?

I meant you  ::)

I know.  I guess you are both blind and unable to read.
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

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Offline Skydive

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Re: What is Sin?
« Reply #26 on: September 01, 2014, 12:58:11 PM »
What is sin? Why is Sin a "no-no" ?

Is self-destruction a good thing?  If not, I don't see why this is even a question. 

If don't see why anyone wouldn't see why this is not a serious and vital question to the theological approach.

One of us is blind. :) Last time I checked...

Do you see better now?

I meant you  ::)

I know.  I guess you are both blind and unable to read.

Where i come from we don't eat rats and cover ourselves in cow dung and urine.
Don't use your signature to complain about moderation.  -PtA

"I will not attack your doctrines nor your creeds if they accord liberty to me. If they hold thought to be dangerous - if they aver that doubt is a crime, then I attack them one and all, because they enslave the minds of men."

Robert Green Ingersoll

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Re: What is Sin?
« Reply #27 on: September 01, 2014, 01:51:44 PM »
What is sin? Why is Sin a "no-no" ?

Is self-destruction a good thing?  If not, I don't see why this is even a question. 

If don't see why anyone wouldn't see why this is not a serious and vital question to the theological approach.

One of us is blind. :) Last time I checked...

Do you see better now?

I meant you  ::)

I know.  I guess you are both blind and unable to read.

Where i come from we don't eat rats and cover ourselves in cow dung and urine.

That's not what your mom said last night.
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

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Offline Maria

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Re: What is Sin?
« Reply #28 on: September 01, 2014, 02:14:35 PM »
Sin is missing the mark (the bullseye) or a lack of perfection.

We are to be perfect as the Heavenly Father is perfect.

I don't play darts. :)

« Last Edit: September 01, 2014, 02:14:54 PM by Maria »
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Offline quietmorning

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Re: What is Sin?
« Reply #29 on: September 01, 2014, 02:24:22 PM »
Ok. I'm going to take a flying stab at this - on a philosophical level (word of warning - I don't even pretend to know what that means.)

I submit that on a civil level - sin is the disregard for the cultural norm.  It is a direct affront to established civil set of behaviors. 

Pedophilia would be a current cultural norm affront.

I also submit on a religious level - including any religion that it is a disregard for the religious established norm set by the said faith. 

(Which is one thing that sets Christianity apart from other world religions. . . )

I have no set of 'proofs' - this is a submission for discussion.  Though, honestly, to me this is a bit on the worthless side as the world as we know it is passing away, along with all the cultural norms and world religions. 

But. . . if I look back at history - there was a statement of 'sin' in each of the early cultures.  They were not of the Judeo origin.  If I look closer, most of their kings were 'gods' and they set the law of the land. 

If I look very very close, there was still the 'unwritten law' of the land - that the culture itself set.

So. . .

:-/  I'm getting some popcorn and will sit back and watch some of you philosophy guru's go at it (please :) ) - perhaps what is being asked for here might actually get resolved. 

Please forgive. . .
In His Mercy,
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Offline Skydive

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Re: What is Sin?
« Reply #30 on: September 01, 2014, 03:03:03 PM »
Ok. I'm going to take a flying stab at this - on a philosophical level (word of warning - I don't even pretend to know what that means.)

I submit that on a civil level - sin is the disregard for the cultural norm.  It is a direct affront to established civil set of behaviors. 

Pedophilia would be a current cultural norm affront.

I also submit on a religious level - including any religion that it is a disregard for the religious established norm set by the said faith. 

(Which is one thing that sets Christianity apart from other world religions. . . )

I have no set of 'proofs' - this is a submission for discussion.  Though, honestly, to me this is a bit on the worthless side as the world as we know it is passing away, along with all the cultural norms and world religions. 

But. . . if I look back at history - there was a statement of 'sin' in each of the early cultures.  They were not of the Judeo origin.  If I look closer, most of their kings were 'gods' and they set the law of the land. 

If I look very very close, there was still the 'unwritten law' of the land - that the culture itself set.

So. . .

:-/  I'm getting some popcorn and will sit back and watch some of you philosophy guru's go at it (please :) ) - perhaps what is being asked for here might actually get resolved. 

Please forgive. . .


That's the point of view I want this to be discussed from please.

:)
Don't use your signature to complain about moderation.  -PtA

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Offline kelly

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Re: What is Sin?
« Reply #31 on: September 01, 2014, 03:06:53 PM »
What is sin? Why is Sin a "no-no" ?

Is self-destruction a good thing?  If not, I don't see why this is even a question. 

If don't see why anyone wouldn't see why this is not a serious and vital question to the theological approach.

One of us is blind. :) Last time I checked...

Do you see better now?

I meant you  ::)

I know.  I guess you are both blind and unable to read.

Where i come from we don't eat rats and cover ourselves in cow dung and urine.

That's not what your mom said last night.

I am displeased.
"But we must live in the world, having peace in our soul. We must live amidst strangers; we must suffer, struggle, and firmly believe. We must seek our consolation in prayer and not doubt the love and compassion of God. He is above everyone and everything."

Offline JamesR

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Re: What is Sin?
« Reply #32 on: September 01, 2014, 03:38:28 PM »
1) Anything that impedes upon our Theosis. Even drinking a soda when you could be praying or sleeping when you could be at Church is technically sinful.

2) It destroys you spiritually and physically in that you experience pain and misery in the presence of God's love, which is kinda similar to wind in that you either stand with it or against it.
...Or it's just possible he's a mouthy young man on an internet forum.
In the infinite wisdom of God, James can be all three.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: What is Sin?
« Reply #33 on: September 01, 2014, 03:48:41 PM »
...
...  They were not of the Judeo origin.  If I look closer, most of their kings were 'gods' and they set the law of the land. 
...

Very uncommon, actually. Most people throughout ancient history did not live in Bronze Age empires, for one thing. These eruptions of blasphemous hubris make the history books, of course, but they can't be categorized as a way of life and morals.

Most cultures (if not all cultures) would have said they learnt their way of life from the gods. If they were ambitious and had cities (still very uncommon), they would extend this to say they were founded by the gods. And, for that matter, who is to say they were wrong? Even earliest man had ways of living so uncannily-matched to his particular climate as to be miraculous. Even the strangest environments were made to yield livelihoods and cuisines of strange beauty and wholesomeness. In addition, such ways of life were so reliable as to be persisted in for millennia -- until 1500s at the earliest, in most of the world until much closer to our own day. While even the Hebrew prophet was inspired to say, "Saith the Lord, 'Have not I brought out Israel from Egypt? and the Philistines from Caphtor? and the Syrians from Kir?' "
In love did God create the world; in love does he guide it ...; in love is he going wondrously to transform it. --Abba Isaac

Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity. --Climacus

Offline quietmorning

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Re: What is Sin?
« Reply #34 on: September 01, 2014, 04:07:35 PM »
...
...  They were not of the Judeo origin.  If I look closer, most of their kings were 'gods' and they set the law of the land.  
...

Very uncommon, actually. Most people throughout ancient history did not live in Bronze Age empires, for one thing. These eruptions of blasphemous hubris make the history books, of course, but they can't be categorized as a way of life and morals.

Most cultures (if not all cultures) would have said they learnt their way of life from the gods. If they were ambitious and had cities (still very uncommon), they would extend this to say they were founded by the gods. And, for that matter, who is to say they were wrong? Even earliest man had ways of living so uncannily-matched to his particular climate as to be miraculous. Even the strangest environments were made to yield livelihoods and cuisines of strange beauty and wholesomeness. In addition, such ways of life were so reliable as to be persisted in for millennia -- until 1500s at the earliest, in most of the world until much closer to our own day. While even the Hebrew prophet was inspired to say, "Saith the Lord, 'Have not I brought out Israel from Egypt? and the Philistines from Caphtor? and the Syrians from Kir?' "

Ok, lets look at the civilizations that did live in the bronze age - for the sake of debate.  Or for that matter ANY civilization (was sin a defined part of the birth of civilization as we know it?) - that pre-dated the Moses and the ten commandments. . .

what caused the thought of sin to take place?

And the thought that perhaps the definition was there - did God use it to communicate something HIGHER to the people of Israel?  Hence the Law?  Was it simply a language they understood?  

**lol. .. . oye. ..my brain is hurting already.**  ;)

I've heard countless arguments of how sin was just a way for the state to control the people. . .but I don't think so.  Egypt had a very free society with it's citizens. . .comparatively. . .

so. . .

?

And then the Hebrews and the Law of Moses. . . went from simple definition to Christ's Sermon on the Mount that really looked at the condition of man instead of just the what to do/don't do and behave yourself's.  Making the thought of sin completely re-defined and utterly unique in Christianity vs the rest of the world.

Heh. . . and with this, I will excuse myself, because I am completely uneducated in the matter of debate and philosophy.  (Though i always have a ton of questions. . .curiouser and curiouser.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2014, 04:08:22 PM by quietmorning »
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: What is Sin?
« Reply #35 on: September 01, 2014, 04:16:56 PM »
Since Paradise, people have always had a sense of God, of good and bad, of cultural and personal failure. This is not what made Israel special.
In love did God create the world; in love does he guide it ...; in love is he going wondrously to transform it. --Abba Isaac

Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity. --Climacus

Offline quietmorning

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Re: What is Sin?
« Reply #36 on: September 01, 2014, 04:21:40 PM »
Since Paradise, people have always had a sense of God, of good and bad, of cultural and personal failure. This is not what made Israel special.

So, if I understand your statement correctly - that the thought of sin, whether defined correctly or not - was because of a sense of God from the beginning. 

I'm not sure what you mean by "it's not what made Israel special".  Could you please elaborate?
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Offline jewish voice

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Re: What is Sin?
« Reply #37 on: September 01, 2014, 05:12:18 PM »
Since Paradise, people have always had a sense of God, of good and bad, of cultural and personal failure. This is not what made Israel special.

So, if I understand your statement correctly - that the thought of sin, whether defined correctly or not - was because of a sense of God from the beginning. 

I'm not sure what you mean by "it's not what made Israel special".  Could you please elaborate?
in Hebrew it's called yetzer which is what every human has. Yetzer comes in two forms yetzer hara which is evil and wants to act as ego money power lust then there is yetzer hatov the good yetzer which says to man wait this don't seam right to just go after money power lust cause ego hurts others  then makes you feel guilty for wanting these things. Man must struggle with these two throughout life.
Yes since every human has yetzer so many cultures have a form of right and wrong then one must choose which yetzer to listen to. 

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Re: What is Sin?
« Reply #38 on: September 01, 2014, 05:23:11 PM »
... I'm not sure what you mean by "it's not what made Israel special". Could you please elaborate?

It has to do with the Church, of course, and I should leave an elaboration to someone better able than I to recall the Fathers.
In love did God create the world; in love does he guide it ...; in love is he going wondrously to transform it. --Abba Isaac

Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity. --Climacus

Offline minasoliman

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Re: What is Sin?
« Reply #39 on: September 01, 2014, 07:53:37 PM »
I know.  I guess you are both blind and unable to read.
Where i come from we don't eat rats and cover ourselves in cow dung and urine.

Where i come from we don't eat rats and cover ourselves in cow dung and urine.

That's not what your mom said last night.

Knock it off both of you.  Racist and maternal remarks are not accepted.  I ask that you both keep this away from the Religious Topics section.

God bless.

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Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: What is Sin?
« Reply #40 on: September 01, 2014, 11:02:44 PM »
Sin is doing your own will.
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Re: What is Sin?
« Reply #41 on: September 02, 2014, 01:20:35 AM »
I suppose Sin can be defined as an act/acts of disobedience towards God. Since God is inherently Good by nature all decrees and commands from Him must be "Good" as well in accordance with His nature. This is as expressed in Divine Revelation through the Scriptures and the Tradition of the Church. By acting oppositely of these decrees, we act in disobedience hereby committing Sin.
My Lord, My Lord, give my worthless soul the illumination of Wisdom in your mercy