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Author Topic: Mormonism and why it is an evil cult that needs to be stopped.  (Read 12211 times) Average Rating: 0
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Sabbas
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« on: May 04, 2005, 04:25:43 PM »

I recently was told by a friend that if I wanted a good laugh, shock, and had some free time some afternoon to visit www.exmormon.org . Well I did and I was not only shocked I was disgusted. The only weird fact that I did know was that Mormons did believe that all black people are the cursed offspring of Cain. They officially stopped believing this in 1978 but a Mormon I knew in school told me about this so I don't think this Mormon teaching has entirely died out. But I never knew that Mormons believed you needed a secret handshake and password to get into heaven nor did I know that Mormons who have been endowed had to wear special underwear at all times. It is very interesting because it is so weird and because there are so many Mormons. How could so many people be duped into this. I plan on reading Under the Banner of Heaven this summer and finding out more about how weird Mormonism still is. Do you know what Blood Atonement is? It was the Mormon belief that it was sometimes justifiable to put apostates to death! Read this http://www.exmormon.org/bloodatn.htm
From these brief readings I am convinced that the Mormons are worshipping the Devil. Who else could lead people to do such insane evil things in the name of God.
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« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2005, 04:29:41 PM »

Actually what stopped in '78 was that black people could be part of the Mormon priesthood (which is for all males in Mormonism.) No other beliefs changed; they just received "revelation" from God that black people could be admitted now. (Similar to the "revelation" of earlier times that polygamy should no longer be practiced.)

You've just started to uncover the beliefs of Mormon.

Look up the "Adam-God" doctrine. That one is fun. (Although no longer held by many Mormons as they believe Young was not acting as a Prophet when he spoke on this... how can you be a Prophet and teach something false...?)

They also believe that God the Father was originally a man like us and grew in holiness until he got his own planet. (Faithful Mormons will also get their own planets.) He lives near a star named Kolob. He has a wife, the Heavenly Mother, but we don't know much about her. They also believe that God the Father, who has a body, literally impregnated Mary. The list goes on.

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« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2005, 04:38:26 PM »

Oh!

But-- I should warn you and anyone reading this, I strongly advise not to read too much on Mormonism... I know from personal experience that the more you study it (and trust me, it can become obsessive because it's so fascinating and grotesque) the more it almost seems to possess you. I really think there is strong demonic influence there and wouldn't be surprised if this, as well as psychological factors, had to do with the "burning of the bosom" that inquirers are supposed to feel while reading the BOM.

Marjorie
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"The land of God is wide and large enough to provide room for everyone if we are humans. If we act like brutes, then there will not be enough room even if there are only four of us."

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« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2005, 05:26:59 PM »

hehehehehehe, I love the topic sentence. Run on, run on, little sentence!

Let's just love those who escape and continue witnessing to the world through our actions.
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« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2005, 06:06:09 PM »

The strange thing is the Mormons have this completely screwball theology, and yet there are so insanely normal. Aside from the wackos like Hoffman and the breakaway polygamists, they're mostly what you could describe as a cult of domesticity. I mostly attribute this to the fact that your average Mormon (in my experience) has very, very little real understanding of what their church believes and teaches. Oddly, the missionaries have struck me as being among the most poorly catechized.
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« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2005, 10:19:52 PM »

Rilian,

That is spot on. What they emphasize is family, family, family-- the home and family-- being nice and making cookies... they never really seem to know about the theological baggage that comes along with it.

Marjorie
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« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2005, 11:44:20 PM »

hehehehehehe, I love the topic sentence. Run on, run on, little sentence!

Let's just love those who escape and continue witnessing to the world through our actions.

LOL -- the language teacher in me loves the pun, CF!

Good call on the response to the craaaaazy doctrine, too....
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« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2005, 11:53:08 PM »

What's even more insane, is that even those who are Mormon Theologians and are extremely well catechized (i.e. an acquaintance of mine named Brian) still believe that stuff.  They are reluctant to talk about it too.  They'll proselytize like crazy, but wont talk about the "mysteries" like Holy Underwear, and Temple Activities.  The new San Antonio temple just opened.  Some friends went to the Open House for it and said it was rediculously opulent.  Nothing was happening though.  Again, they hide their "mysteries" from the world.  Kinda spooky.
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« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2005, 12:40:46 AM »

Not meaning to be condescending but I always thought that the Holy Drawers thing was a little extreme.  I dont think there is a Drawer blessing service in Orthodoxy...is there?


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Ah, nevermind. Grin

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« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2005, 08:15:52 AM »

Well, not to be mean, but Mormonism, as well as JWs, are two such cults that are dangerous in the sense that they totally depart from orthodox Christianity. Another sect that's making inroads quietly is the Philippine Iglesia ni Cristo (literally Church of Christ, though not to be confused with a denomination of the same name), which is very cultish (they deny Jesus to be part of the Trinity and think their founder, Felix Manalo, to be the true prophet, amongst their beliefs). These cults exist and grab a lot of people unawares.
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« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2005, 09:42:23 AM »

A long time ago I had a Mormon friend and he was quite nice, but also quite hotheaded. So I actually got him to debate the holy underwear, wives of God, spirit children, etc with me, which is very uncommon. We had some good debates LOL

Anyway, he took me to his "church" where they tried to lure me in with hot chicks, literally; he actually told me if I went Mormon I could marry one of them LOL. Then I met a missionary who when he greeted me I could tell was possessed (literally, I don't exaggerate spiritual things) and his eyes actually rolled back in his head when he smiled at me (freaky).

The last straw was during the service I felt a weird presence so I asked the Lord to show me what was up and reveal the truth of what I was seeing and I looked to the left and saw shadows appear and move around behind various people--you know what that means. (FREAKY).

I bolted.

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« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2005, 09:48:06 AM »

Anastasios,
   Wow!!!  my experience has been with individual Mormons who seemed to be quite normal.  To see that much of the presence of evil gives me chills even on this end of the computer.  Praise God that you are a Christian and were able to see such things for what they were.  That is truly frightening.  We so often look at the more rediculous aspects of the religion and forget the demonic and satanic influence of it and how that affects the Mormons' lives.  Thank you for sharing.

Adrian
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« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2005, 12:11:10 PM »

Christ is Risen!

As a former Mormon (member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, LDS) but now a convert to the Holy Orthodox Church for 18 Paschas, I may be able to illumine some of you on the Mormon mind and its approach to Theology. First thing to remember is that the Mormon’s see their church as a prophetic church, i.e. their President of the Church is a prophet who can change things as needed to fit the needs of society today and the protection of the church as needed. To the Mormon, this shows them the hand of God in the workings of their church and maintaining it relevance. To the world this appears to be charismatic leadership gone awry but to the Mormon, it is a sign of truth.

The LDS church was historically developed out of the Campbellite Movement of the 1820-30’s a part of the “Great Awakening” in America of the protestant evangelical/ millennial movement. From the Campbellites the Churches of Christ, Disciples of Christ and the united Church of Christ developed as mainline protestant denominations. The LDS church originally was called the Church of Christ and Later by prophetic revelation was changed and incorporated as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. The LDS church took the Campbellite teaching that the Christian Church needed to be restored to the protestant vision of the early church to the next logical level of the Entire Church had fallen and needed full restoration.

As the church evolved under the leadership of Joseph Smith Jr, its first president and prophet---new scriptures (The Book of Mormon revealed by the Angel Moroni) joined the Bible to clarify confused issues like infant baptism (no), baptism by immersion (yes), frequent communion (yes), definition of the Holy Trinity as Three separate Gods (thru a vision of God the Father and God the Son to Joseph Smith Jr), Priesthood of all believers (Aaronic Priesthood restored by John the Baptist and Melchizadek Priesthood restored by Apostles Peter, James, and John) revealed to Joseph Smith, Jr. Day to day revelations organizing the beliefs of the LDS church were given to Joseph Smith Jr and recorded in the Book of Doctrine and Covenants. Plural Marriage and a Temple Endowment promising godhood to faithful Mormons, based upon a purification of Masonic temple ritual were established before the mob killing of Joseph Smith, Jr. Additional revelations/statements were placed in the Doctrine and Covenants after the death of Joseph Smith Jr---Brigham Young’s appointing him as the successor of Joseph. Wilford Woodruff’s announcement stopping polygamy as an active practice in the church, and Spencer W. Kimball’s revelation to allow Negroes to hold the priesthood.

Mormonism is truly a Gnostic church patterned with teachings of secret keys to hidden knowledge being prominent in the teachings of the actual theology of the church. They hold these secret teachings or hidden knowledge as sacred and therefore not to be spoken about to the uninitiated. After I had received my own Temple endowment, the president of the Swiss Temple gave a lecture I attended in the LDS Temple in Zollikofen Switzerland in which he explained the four levels of knowledge in the LDS Church:
Level One---The Inquirer Level ---this is better known as the teaching level of the LDS Missionary program. This is a series of around eight lessons that are very clearly developed and memorized by the Missionaries and taught to the non-Mormon. It introduces basic levels of LDS doctrine like the Holy Trinity being separate people with the Father and Son having bodies of flesh and bone. The fallen state of the Christian Church and its need to be “restored” by Joseph Smith, Jr. Other teachings like tithing and a brief intro to church programs is given. Not very in-depth, the lessons are meant to get the person to agree to Baptism and sate some level of belief in Joseph Smith Jr and his revelations. [Note: at this time the person is presented with the “perfection of the church” and the love shown by the LDS to the inquirer is often cited as the main reason many came into the church.]
Level Two---The New Member Level --- This is the level at which a deepening of teaching about the LDS church and theology is done. New Keys of understanding are offered and the person’s membership in the church is stabilized. New definitions are offered of common Christian Terminology and teachings---commonly referred to as “Mormonisms” ---these terms are relatively clearly delineated in LDS Apostle Bruce R. McConkie’s book Mormon Doctrine. As the teachings and beliefs are taught in more depth the focus shifts to the new member getting the Temple Endowment and eternal marriage being given as the goal. Promises of deeper knowledge and understanding are given during the classes, whetting the appetite of the new member to become “fully” a Mormon. For at least a year the new member is expected to tithe, live the Word of Wisdom [Mormon Health rules], attend church, and evangelize non-Mormons. [Note: many converts are lost in the first year as they gradually understand the differences between orthodox/heterodox teachings of the Christianity and the teachings of the LDS church]
Level Three---The Temple Endowed Member ---at this level, the member achieves adulthood in the LDS Church. The temple ritual, which was a “restoration” of apostate Masonic ritual to the “purity” of the true, Temple Service makes use of the traditional signs and tokens of the Free Masonic Order adapted by Joseph Smith Jr to the LDS Temple ritual. Every person who is to be endowed is symbolically washed and anointed a king and queen and given a new white garment they are to wear for the rest of their lives---the garment contains the Masonic symbols of the square and the compass and markings at the naval and right knee. Each person then places white temple clothing over these garments and go the their full endowment of knowledge in the Temple ceremony. The Ceremony is a series of small plays (In some modern temples filmed versions of the plays) representing the creation, fall of Adam and Eve, and The World today, during which signs and tokens of the Aaronic Priesthood and Melchizadek Priesthood are given. Phrases and teachings of the temple become the keys of hidden wisdom that open for the endowed members the sermons and writings of the church in ways that the unendowed or unitiated do not have. When these phrases are read or said the initiated has a completely different understanding of the text than the unitiated. After being taught the true order of prayer, each person is individually taken to the Veil of the Temple, a large white curtain with the symbols placed on their temple garment being on the veil. Here they undergo a rehearsal of the Judgment to enter heaven---they are quizzed on the knowledge, names, tokens and signs that they have received in the temple. If successful, they go through the veil and enter the Celestial Room of the Temple---The Celestial Room is very Ornate and symbolizes the beauty of heaven. If they are to be sealed in eternal marriage they enter the Sealing room off this room where they kneel at an altar and sealed by the Temple Presidency to their eternal spouse, this closes by a curtain being lifted and the couple looking into two mirrors which reflect off each other in infinite images---this shows them howl they are eternally married. The endowed member comes out highly empowered much like the early Gnostics with the power they know something only the “‘elect” know.
Level Four---Calling and Election Made Sure ---I did not experience this in my membership in the LDS church, and I believe most LDS members do not achieve this level. This level was specifically mentioned by the Temple President in his lecture, however, the “ Calling and Election Made Sure” is the goal of every endowed Mormon, It is when, in the Temple Jesus Christ is fully revealed to the member---at this point they do not know by faith but know by fact what Joseph taught about Jesus is true. They have made it, they will be a god for eternity. Should they commit any sin, they must pay for it themselves, as did Jesus did for them previously. They have achieved full and perfect knowledge and thus are responsible for themselves. The temple President said you will never know who has their calling and election made sure because those who say they have it don’t and those who have it won’t acknowledge they have it.

The Mormon is an extremely hard person to evangelize unless he is disaffected by some policy or offended by an individual or leader of the Church, however, you can effectively work with any Mormon if you will follow these few suggestions from someone who left and became an Orthodox Christian.
1)   Remember that the LDS person is blinded by the father of all lies and must be approached prayerfully by the Orthodox Christian.
2)   Pray to the Holy Spirit to guide you and release the blinders that bind them so they may hear what you are saying.
3)   Ask the Most Holy Theotokos and the Saints of Heaven to intercede before the Throne of God for the person you are seeking to bring out of the Mormon church.
4)   Provide the person with good, strong teachings of the Holy fathers of the Church [I came out after being shaken from my sleep by the Paschal Letters of St Athanasius---his teachings of the Holy Trinity, the Resurrection of Christ were so powerful I could no longer defend the frail LDS beliefs in the brightness of the light of his teachings] and the description of the beliefs of the early Church such as the Didache.
5)   Make sure you are attending all the Church services you are able to attend, and prayerfully participate. [Remember that an LDS person is VERY active in his church often serving in a church activity or calling 5-6 days a week---all their social activities are in the church---most of their frie4nds will be LDS when they leave they lose family, friends, social activities, as well as religious activities] You will have to help keep the person actively and positively engaged in Orthodox activities.
6)   Finally love them with all your heart as a brother or sister, pray continuously for them even if rebuffed.

I hope that you will bring into their heart the reality of Christ as taught by the Orthodox Church. Christ is Risen! Truly He is Risen!

In Christ,
Thomas
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« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2005, 12:38:54 PM »

Anyway, he took me to his "church" where they tried to lure me in with hot chicks, literally; he actually told me if I went Mormon I could marry one of them LOL.

LOL!
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« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2005, 12:46:39 PM »

Anyway, he took me to his "church" where they tried to lure me in with hot chicks, literally; he actually told me if I went Mormon I could marry one of them LOL.

Hmm...that's how we can solve the shortage of hot Orthodox chicks in some places.  Marry hot Mormon ones and convert 'em!!!  :thumbsup:
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« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2005, 12:50:10 PM »

Thomas,

Thank you for sharing your experiences - they are very enlightening for me. And to be perfectly honest, in just what you have described, I can see how dangerous Mormonism is, since I remember a time for me (as a kid lol) where all that initiation hoopla would seem extremely appealing, truth notwithstanding - the mystique of it is its strongest weapon, it seems to me. It seems prayer to the Holy Trinity is our strongest warding-off of such a cult. Your tips for evangelizing Mormons are very good I think - if I ever meet any I will remember them.

In Christ,
Donna Mary
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« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2005, 12:54:45 PM »

Ok people,

Your message has been received.

Now, what about burning all Mormons in the central square? Nice Mormon is a fried Mormon. I want mine well done, please.

Sabbas started the thread with a desperate disgusted shock, “Mormons are worshipers of devil” Huh

Then gradually some people started to panic themselves:

Quote
"I strongly advise not to read too much on Mormonism GǪ"


"They are so insanely normalGǪ"


"Good call on the response to the craaaaazy doctrine, too...."


"What's even more insane is that even those who are Mormon Theologians and are extremely well catechized (i.e. an acquaintance of mine named Brian) still believe that stuffGǪ They'll proselytize like crazy, but won’t talk about the "mysteries" like Holy Underwear, and Temple Activities. GǪ. Nothing was happening though. Again, they hide their "mysteries" from the world. Kinda spooky."


"Well, not to be mean, but Mormonism, as well as JWs, are two such cults that are dangerous in the sense that they totally depart from orthodox Christianity GǪ. These cults exist and grab a lot of people unawares."


"GǪThe last straw was during the service I felt a weird presence so I asked the Lord to show me what was up and reveal the truth of what I was seeing and I looked to the left and saw shadows appear and move around behind various people--you know what that means. (FREAKY)..."


"Wow!!! my experience has been with individual Mormons who seemed to be quite normal. To see that much of the presence of evil gives me chills even on this end of the computer. Praise God that you are a Christian and were able to see such things for what they were. That is truly frightening. We so often look at the more ridiculous aspects of the religion and forget the demonic and satanic influence of it and how that affects the Mormons' lives. Thank you for sharing."

Now people, you may have just entered into the Twilight Zone. Shocked

Ahh, and don’t forget: Mormons are literally from another planet, as they are pretending to be.

Finally, as someone said in his post “Thank you for sharing.” Huh

(Many mormons are going to be with us in heaven. Honesty and personal faith are not our privilege.
You know some people in old times (during the Roman Empire) said about Christians that were eating human flesh and they were drinking human blood. They were referring to pagan customs in order to slander and to go after Christians.)

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« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2005, 12:58:35 PM »

What's even more insane, is that even those who are Mormon Theologians and are extremely well catechized (i.e. an acquaintance of mine named Brian) still believe that stuff. They are reluctant to talk about it too. They'll proselytize like crazy, but wont talk about the "mysteries" like Holy Underwear, and Temple Activities. The new San Antonio temple just opened. Some friends went to the Open House for it and said it was rediculously opulent. Nothing was happening though. Again, they hide their "mysteries" from the world. Kinda spooky.


Yes, if you ask Mormons what they believe most often they will hand you the "13 Articles of Faith" (which are just basically things they share with either Catholics or Protestants) and say "FAMILIES ARE FOREVER!"... never once mentioning any of the shadiest doctrines.

Marjorie
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« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2005, 01:04:19 PM »

Lpap,

My warnings were serious. I'm not paranoid; it's not "crazy" to think that some cults have demonic influences in them, no matter how normal initiates can be. I know that I studied Mormonism for a while and the more I did the more weird I felt when I read it... weird things started to happen. I also believe Anastasios's anecdote.

I am actually known as, like, someone very 'liberal' in my approach to other religions. Mormonism is an exception because I think it is very strongly caught up with demonic influence. I'm sorry if you find that paranoid but it is the conclusion I have reached.

I do know many normal, healthy, sane and good Mormons.

Marjorie
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« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2005, 01:29:53 PM »

Christ is Risen!

One of the problems that people have trying to evangelize Mormons is that we tend to dredge up the anti-Mormon literature which in actuality has more success in keeping people out of Mormonism than effecting those in Mormonism. One must remember that Mormonism was a progressive/evolving religion ---in orther words trying to evolve very quickly into a church in less than a 100 years with men who were for the most part intelligent but poorly educated people. Mormon Theology is an evolution of these men thinking without the Holy Spirit and Holy Tradition to support them. Even in the time of Joseph Smith Jr., the church evolved from  a campbellite movement to a prophetic movement from a strongly monogomous church to a polygamous one, all based upon men taking an idea from one level to another.

Early Mormon Teachings that eventually disappeared, were postponed, or evolved into other things are:
1) Adam-ondi-Ahman -the garden of Eden in Missouri where a Mormon Paradise would be established (ended in 1840/now said to have been postponed)
2) Witnesses of the Book of Mormon ( most promised great things, most apostasized)
3)Adam-God/Adam as Michael (taught by Brigham Young, not ever formally adapted by Conference as approved doctrine---known by historians and LDS Theologians but refuted officially by the Church, most LDS do not accept this)
4) Everything has spirits (vegetables, animals, etc---taught by Apostle Orson Hyde and others, not approved by conference, not accepted by most LDS people)
5) You MUST be in a Plural Marriage to enter the Celestial Kingdom (teaching changed by President Wiford Woodruff to mean only that one had to be sealed for eternity in Marriage ---i.e celestial marriage)
6) Blood Atonement (Brigham Young taught that for many sins, Christ's blood ationement was insufficient, and that they had to be atoned for by the shedding of one's blood in order to be forgiven this included heresy, treason, apsostacy, murder, ect---Currently this has been changed only to cover Murder---ie if you commit murder a Mormon would want his blood shed, that is why Utah offers firing squad as a option for the death sentence)
7) African people (negroes) were not allowed to hold the LDS priesthoods as the descendents of Cain (Belief changed when President Spencer W. Kimball had a revelation that the time for the descedents of Cain to be able to hold the priesthood had come and LDS people with Negro blood were started to be ordained and missions in black areas of Africa were opened.)

Remember if you try to use these to challenge the LDS person, you will only reinforcing their belief that you are anti-Mormon and do not know what you are speaking about. Focus on current beliefs and especially use of the Holy Fathers of the Orthodox Christian Church in explaining the true church. Remember always that prayer and example are the most effective way of dealing with LDS people as you evangelize them.

In Christ,
Thomas
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« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2005, 01:39:08 PM »

The worst argument I have ever had with a Mormon was when he got quotes from the Holy Fathers off of a Mormon website which took a few things out of context (especially in relation to theosis) to prove that the earliest Church was Mormon. It INCENSED me, obviously. I started crying.

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« Reply #21 on: May 05, 2005, 02:11:56 PM »

Christ is Risen!

Dearest Sister In Christ, I think I know the site that you speak of.  It is easily responded to from that classic  Kallistos Ware's  The Orthodox Church which clearly teaches what Theosis is and is not using the Church Fathers.  I wrote a paper on this for my St Stephen's course just last semester. contact me at my email address listed if you want a copy of the paper.

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« Reply #22 on: May 05, 2005, 02:22:18 PM »


1) Adam-ondi-Ahman -the garden of Eden in Missouri where a Mormon Paradise would be established (ended in 1840/now said to have been postponed)


Garden of Eden in Missouri?  That right there should prove that the religion is off it's rocker.
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« Reply #23 on: May 05, 2005, 02:55:04 PM »



Garden of Eden in Missouri? That right there should prove that the religion is off it's rocker.

Unless you think paradise is good BBQ, in which case they may be on to something.
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« Reply #24 on: May 05, 2005, 03:36:55 PM »

The Momo's are off their rocker and if you don't believe me just watch the videos Godmakers 1 & 2 which exposes everything about them. Those video tapes will also scare you half to death when they go into quasi-satanic type stuff they do in their temples and other very weird things like their belief in "blood atonement." Another funny thing about them is the book of Mormon, which reads like it was written by a bunch of 3rd graders. I can't believe anyone would fall for such garbage; the false archeological descriptions should be enough for anyone to see right through it all.
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« Reply #25 on: May 05, 2005, 03:42:41 PM »

Unfortunately, P.T. Barnum was underestimating, it's more like a sucker is born every second. In light of this topic, I've warned my stepson who goes to an Agape youth group (which I don't care for, but his mother is okay with) to NOT listen when the mormon girl in group is speaking. But I do like the idea of sheepstealing the hot mormons, it's like putting the LDS out business by stealing their breeding stock.
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« Reply #26 on: May 05, 2005, 04:40:09 PM »

Thomas

Gosh, I had no idea. Thats the most fascinating thing I've ever read about the Mormons. It makes the word cult seem inadequate somehow.
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« Reply #27 on: May 05, 2005, 05:52:15 PM »

A long time ago I had a Mormon friend and he was quite nice, but also quite hotheaded. So I actually got him to debate the holy underwear, wives of God, spirit children, etc with me, which is very uncommon. We had some good debates LOL

Anyway, he took me to his "church" where they tried to lure me in with hot chicks, literally; he actually told me if I went Mormon I could marry one of them LOL. Then I met a missionary who when he greeted me I could tell was possessed (literally, I don't exaggerate spiritual things) and his eyes actually rolled back in his head when he smiled at me (freaky).

The last straw was during the service I felt a weird presence so I asked the Lord to show me what was up and reveal the truth of what I was seeing and I looked to the left and saw shadows appear and move around behind various people--you know what that means. (FREAKY).

I bolted.

Anastasios

Now it makes me eager to investigate Mormonism, just to see if what happened to Anastasios is true. I'd like to investigate such things, because I strongly believe that to overcome darkness, one must first know the enemy. If such things really happened, then more than ever we must be careful of such cults.
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« Reply #28 on: May 05, 2005, 11:39:57 PM »

I am always the one for tolerating different faith traditions. I can buy that Buddha had some very enlightening experience that through following his techniques, one can attain the same enlightenment. His ideas of reincarnation I interpret in the historical context of his time and therefore, I have no need to denounce his entire system of thought as foolish. There is a great deal of truth in Siddhartha's insights and there is no reason to believe that he was intentionally deceiving people.
Joseph Smith, on the other hand, was a dinizen of hell, to put it lightly. The Book of Mormon was plargiarized from other books of his time which speculated that the Native Americans are the descendents of the Jews. He midrashed some Old Testament characters into that setting and brought a "another Testament of Jesus Christ". Some of those who originally claimed to have witnessed the tablets actually came forward and admitted they never existed. What the heck is this cult's problem?
One might as well think of it as Moronism.
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« Reply #29 on: May 06, 2005, 01:42:07 AM »


One might as well think of it as Moronism.


And that's why their demon, um I mean "angel" is named Moroni, making them Morons!!!!

Mormons.  Crreeeeppppppy! (Dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb, dumb!)
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« Reply #30 on: May 06, 2005, 01:54:28 AM »

Galatians automatically demolishes Mormon doctrine.
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« Reply #31 on: May 06, 2005, 03:14:34 AM »



And that's why their demon, um I mean "angel" is named Moroni, making them Morons!!!!

I mean, I realize that making your own religion probably takes a lot of work, but how could something that obvious slip by? Wink
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« Reply #32 on: May 06, 2005, 03:38:37 AM »

OK, what I get out of this forum, this religion, Morman, is a mixture of Sciencetology, Masons, and demonic.... yes, odd, very odd.

My personal experience, from work...I worked with my best-friend at that time; a co-worker of Mormon Religion tells my best-friend, "Nice person, too bad she is going to hell." My friend gets irate and says "Excuse me!" and the co-worker replies "Yes, she is Muslim." My best-friend angrily replies "NO! She is Orthodox Christian and I am Catholic...and Muslims do not go to hell!" Then my best-friend walked away...we never spoke to her again. Basically what I got from Mormons by meeting this co-worker is that they are judgmental and racist. My personal experience...demonic...God knows.

But hey, the Osmonds are nice and angel like with charity...I think Wink
or maybe...
 Evil :flame:
thats how they made their millions! Grin
Joking ALL!

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« Reply #33 on: May 06, 2005, 09:52:09 AM »

I find some of the comments about peoples' encounters with Mormonism (and copping a creepy vibe from it) interesting, as it reflects my own experience after engaging some Mormon missionaries and reading their literature (and doing further reading online - this was back in the "BBS days", so the info was a little harder to come by, but it was out there).  It is a system that has a strange seductive power, even in regard to those who know for a fact that it is baloney, and can state quite specifically why.

However, this is not unique to Mormonism - you'll find it in most pagan religions, wherever they manifest themselves in there more "integral" forms.  And this is because, the temples of these groups are houses for demons, and that is what they worship and service - and the devil has a way of making the most degenerate, and (to even the most elementarily logical/rational mind) ridiculous things seem credible and worthy of our energies and devotion.  This is why the Scriptures make a link between sexual deviancy and idolatry.

I can give another personal experience illustrating this - and it involves my past research/contacts with various Vedic/"Hindu" religions and cults.  However ridiculous, (often) grotesque, and a-historical, it's easy to get sucked in by these groups with their opulent temples, idols, mantras, etc.  It's the same spirit at work with the Mormons.  Also, like the Mormons, these groups can also call on "feelings" and subtly (at first - it can become much more profound with time) altered states of consciousness to support their sects - many Hindus will talk about the "vibrations" given off by their temple idols, which speak inaudiably to those who gaze on them.  "Vibrations", "burning in the bosom", etc.

This is precisely why the Orthodox Tradition is so against using the imagination as a vehicle of devotion in the spiritual life, or enslaving ourselves with a lot of subjectivity - which is precisely why it's so valuable to go to confession, and if possible, have a regular confessor or even a spiritual father/mother of some spiritual maturity.  While pagan sects and heretics thrive on delusion, it can also happen amongst Orthodox Christians themselves; this is a danger both to the "simple layman" and those who purposefully take on an ascetic life (like monastics).  There are (unfortunately) quite a few stories in our Tradition of "monks gone bad" precisely becuase of this.  This has even happened to men who later became Saints (after being freed from their delusion.)

It's all the same basic spiritual illness, in many forms - whether it be schism, heresies,  or paganism.

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« Reply #34 on: May 06, 2005, 01:48:40 PM »

hehehehehehe, I love the topic sentence. Run on, run on, little sentence!

Let's just love those who escape and continue witnessing to the world through our actions.
Thank you for getting the humor. When I wrote that topic sentence I wanted it to sound like something Geraldo Rivera would have said during the Satanism Scare of the 80's. I don't know if any of you are familiar with that time period but a lot of bad run-on sentences were created by people convinced Satanism was everywhere. I thought instead of having a Satanism Scare we should have a Mormonism Scare. Mormons are all over the place, believe in a god who lives on another planet and has a wife, and requires secret passwords and underwear for you to get into heaven. Who else could this god be but the Devil? Wouldn't have been better for Geraldo Rivera to have told people the dangers of getting involved in Mormonism?
Oh!

But-- I should warn you and anyone reading this, I strongly advise not to read too much on Mormonism... I know from personal experience that the more you study it (and trust me, it can become obsessive because it's so fascinating and grotesque) the more it almost seems to possess you. I really think there is strong demonic influence there and wouldn't be surprised if this, as well as psychological factors, had to do with the "burning of the bosom" that inquirers are supposed to feel while reading the BOM.

Marjorie
I felt the same way when I was researching Nazi Occultism in High School. I have Neo-Nazi relatives, who are actually part Jewish, as I am also, and I decided to start researching contemporary Neo-Nazism. I uncovered a lot of websites and groups talking about the 'Cosmic Reich,' the 'Immortal Fuhrer,' and so forth. I was so shocked that these people actually say prayers to Adolf Hitler and believe that he was some type of Warrior-Messiah that I decided to dig deeper. I found a book called the Occult Roots of Nazism by Nicholas Goodricke-Clark http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?endeca=1&isbn=0814730604&itm=2 who is an expert on Aryan Occultism before and during the Second and Third Reich. Did you know that Heinrich Himmler believed he was the reincarnation of King Henry the Fowler? or that he recommended specific cemetaries for his SS men to copulate with their wives so that the spirits of ancient Aryan warriors could be reincarnated? This list of weirdness goes on to theories about some ancient Aryan land called Arktoga and Karl Maria Wiligut who claimed to be a descendant of an ancient line of German Kings who worshipped the god Tyr. I actually became obsessed with learning more and more about this subject till I just had to stop. I realized that it is not healthy to endlessly speculate as to what Heinrich Himmler would have done if the Third Reich had triumphed. Some think Wewelsburg would have become a type of Nazi Camelot. It is all very fascinating and very unhealthy and the same can be said for all weird occult religions. By the way did you know the Mormons baptized Hitler? http://nowscape.com/mormon/hitler_temple_records.htm

Thomas
I am glad that you made it out of Mormonism and I agree with you that alot of these websites are not too good for getting Mormons out of the church though I think exmormon.org's stories by people who left the Mormons might help. Personally I think that these websites are good so that people can be aware of how dangerours Mormonism really is and also so that people can study this weird and uniquely American phenomenon. I was amazed when I found out that Joseph Smith was not killed out of religious persecution but because of all the trouble he was sturring up by interfering in politics.

A long time ago I had a Mormon friend and he was quite nice, but also quite hotheaded. So I actually got him to debate the holy underwear, wives of God, spirit children, etc with me, which is very uncommon. We had some good debates LOL

Anyway, he took me to his "church" where they tried to lure me in with hot chicks, literally; he actually told me if I went Mormon I could marry one of them LOL. Then I met a missionary who when he greeted me I could tell was possessed (literally, I don't exaggerate spiritual things) and his eyes actually rolled back in his head when he smiled at me (freaky).

The last straw was during the service I felt a weird presence so I asked the Lord to show me what was up and reveal the truth of what I was seeing and I looked to the left and saw shadows appear and move around behind various people--you know what that means. (FREAKY).

I bolted.

Anastasios
I think that they do this to a lot of young men and I can imagine how tempting it would be. Of course the treatment of women as sexual servants is not new to Mormonism and still goes on in the fringe LDS churches which maintain polygamy. In some of the towns populated by these fringe Mormon groups they still have problems due to old men in the church taking young women away from their boyfriends in order to make them their third or fourth wife.
Also I am suprised that you able to see such things. The closest I have ever come to a weird experience like you had was seeing a Jehovah Witness who seemed to vibrate. It was like he was so electrified by telling people about the JW church that his body hummed. It is really freaky because even when he would stand still and not be talking you could still see the vibration. Very Weird!

Ipap
 don't be too sure about saying alot of Mormons will go to Heaven. I am not judging them but just reminding you that Mormons do not want to be with Christ but want to be gods in a very earthly way after they die. But I do feel the same sadness you do when I see them, especially their young kids, going around blissfully unaware of the evil they are wrapped in.

Augustine
 you are very right in your appraisal and I think anyone who has read Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future by Fr.Seraphim can see just what is happening. The Antichrist is sowing and plowing and their is a lot of growth right now. In Fairfield, Iowa, close to where I live, there is Maharishi University. There is giant Meditation dome where communal TM takes place. These people are all wrapped up in the Eastern/New Age belief system and are reallly creepy. They have recently founded a new town and named it Vedic City. Who would have thought Iowa would be the home of such kooks?
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« Reply #35 on: May 06, 2005, 03:43:54 PM »

Isn't Moroni plural for moron?
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« Reply #36 on: May 06, 2005, 03:54:12 PM »

Isn't Moroni plural for moron?

Is a cheap-shot at the expense of another religion charitable? Suppose a Mormon should come here and read this. Addressing the points of the LDS truthfully is one thing and that person might at least read more and engage in discussion. But mockery might be more likely to just confirm that those who disagree with his church are not worth debating. It might even be along the lines of "They mock my church, that shows that I"m right, since the righteous are persecuted".

Just a thought.

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« Reply #37 on: May 06, 2005, 04:08:46 PM »

I felt the same way when I was researching Nazi Occultism in High School. I have Neo-Nazi relatives, who are actually part Jewish, as I am also, and I decided to start researching contemporary Neo-Nazism.

That's how it worked out for me too... my friend Liesl was a prospective Mormon at the time (now she's agnostic), and I wanted to find out what she believed and why... and it became almost obsessive.

Marjorie
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« Reply #38 on: May 06, 2005, 04:20:45 PM »



I mean, I realize that making your own religion probably takes a lot of work, but how could something that obvious slip by? Wink

Because the word "moron" was not used as a term for mental disability until 1910 whereas Joseph Smith said he had his visions in the 1820's (There is some historical discrepancy as to it being in 1820 or 1823).

http://xroads.virginia.edu/~HYPER/HNS/Mormons/smith.html


moron (mo-+ron)
NOUN: According to psychologists of the past, a moron was a person with a cognitive disability having a mental age of from 7 to 12 years according to the Binet intelligence tests. Such a person generally had communication and social skills enabling some degree of academic or vocational education. The term, coined by H.H. Goddard in 1910, belongs to a classification system no longer in use and is now considered offensive.

http://www.disabilitymuseum.org/glossary.php


It can be useful to remember that terms and knowledge that is common now has not always been so.  Also, word useage can often be documented as to when it started.

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« Reply #39 on: May 06, 2005, 06:56:01 PM »



Is a cheap-shot at the expense of another religion charitable?

I believe that one of the best ways of saving people from Mormonism is showing how it is based on silly lies. Mormonism isn't even a religion. A religion would be based on at least some sort of truth. Joseph Smith was a complete fraud and anyone who looks into his life story should find that out.
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« Reply #40 on: May 07, 2005, 01:25:44 PM »

I know this is not the reviews section but I wanted ask if anyone here has read Under the Banner of Heaven: A Story of Violent Faith by Jon Krakauer? It was a national bestseller in during August of 2003 and I remember an acquaintance of mine who really found it interesting. The book describes itself as "[reviewing] the life and beliefs of incarcerated Mormon polygamist Ron Lafferty, who received a "revelation from God" that he was to kill his brother's wife and baby.  Twenty years later he is still convinced the deed was righteous, justified in his mind by an extreme fundamentalist rendition of the LDS-based faith." There is more interesting info here http://www.greaterthings.com/Bookstore/Reviews/UnderBannerHeaven/#Book
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« Reply #41 on: May 07, 2005, 01:28:24 PM »



I believe that one of the best ways of saving people from Mormonism is showing how it is based on silly lies. Mormonism isn't even a religion. A religion would be based on at least some sort of truth. Joseph Smith was a complete fraud and anyone who looks into his life story should find that out.

Showing them the facts of Joseph Smith's life is not the same thing as childish name-calling.

In IC XC,
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« Reply #42 on: May 07, 2005, 02:20:28 PM »

Gal 1:6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel;
Gal 1:7 which is {really} not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be eternally damned!
Gal 1:9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be eternally damned!

What would be worse, calling a religion moronic or calling a religion satanic? Though I wouldn't tell a Mormon directly that his church is ridiculous, I would politely help him to figure that out.
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« Reply #43 on: May 07, 2005, 02:31:18 PM »

Gal 1:6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel;
Gal 1:7 which is {really} not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be eternally damned!
Gal 1:9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be eternally damned!

Matthew, did you see my other posts in this thread? Where have I said that I agree with Mormonism or that it was not a satanic, soul-destroying cult?

Though Mormonism frightens me to no end, they have plenty of ways to answer to the Gal 1 thing. After all, Paul also says "even if we..." and many of the gospels and epistles were written *after* Galatians by the apostolic witnesses ("we.") So obviously he doesn't mean new scriptures; he means new and distorted teachings. Which Mormonism DOES have, but they don't agree with that.

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What would be worse, calling a religion moronic or calling a religion satanic?

To say that it is from Satan is to give a serious diagnosis and warning. Calling it 'moronic' just sounds like immature name-calling.

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« Reply #44 on: May 07, 2005, 03:45:19 PM »

Matthew, you say that you would be polite to a Mormon in person. Rudeness repeated can become an unthinking habit.   Why is courtesy not necessary in postings?   There may well be lurkers coming here who are LDS.  When they read, as Majorie wrote, childish put-downs why should they want to hang around or join in?  They might just think "The posters here don't know anything about my church, but they're making nasty jokes about it.  Why would I want to hear more of what they have to say?" 

Let's reverse the roles. Someone from this forum comes across a place that makes what they think are"witty" and "funny"  (read snide, childish etc) remarks about EO or EC or RC but at the same time talking about how people in those churches  need to be shown the Truth, and that the posters don't see anything wrong in such rudeness.  Would you then want to stay there with such petty abuse from people who claim to only have your good in mind? 

One other suggestion:  such cracks and labels may in fact be satanic, in that they make the speaker writer feel superior while they also may help to keep people who have been labeled from wanting to know more.

Ebor
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"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

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