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Offline andrewlya

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Judaism
« on: August 19, 2014, 05:50:14 PM »
Hi all,
I would like to know whether Orthodox Jews still adhere to Old Testament Laws and traditions i.e. stoning adulters to death etc does it still happen in modern Israel?
« Last Edit: August 19, 2014, 05:50:52 PM by andrewlya »
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Judaism
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2014, 06:31:00 PM »
Hi all,
I would like to know whether Orthodox Jews still adhere to Old Testament Laws and traditions i.e. stoning adulters to death etc does it still happen in modern Israel?

No.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
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if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline andrewlya

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Re: Judaism
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2014, 06:37:14 PM »
Why?
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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Judaism
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2014, 06:43:57 PM »
Why?
Same reason the Sanhendrin had to seek Pilate's sentence-they don't have authority to impose a capital sentence, or jurisdiction over any criminal procedure defined as such by the state.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
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Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Judaism
« Reply #4 on: August 19, 2014, 07:26:53 PM »
Hi all,
I would like to know whether Orthodox Jews still adhere to Old Testament Laws and traditions i.e. stoning adulters to death etc does it still happen in modern Israel?


No. Jews abrogated the Torah with their Rabbinical tradition.
I reject all that I wrote that isn't in accordance with the teachings of the Orthodox Church. Also, my posts reflect my opinions (present or former) and nothing else.

Offline andrewlya

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Re: Judaism
« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2014, 05:03:40 PM »
Hi all,
I would like to know whether Orthodox Jews still adhere to Old Testament Laws and traditions i.e. stoning adulters to death etc does it still happen in modern Israel?


No. Jews abrogated the Torah with their Rabbinical tradition.
But who allowed the Jews to change God's commandments with Rabbinical traditions?
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Judaism
« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2014, 05:40:23 PM »
Hi all,
I would like to know whether Orthodox Jews still adhere to Old Testament Laws and traditions i.e. stoning adulters to death etc does it still happen in modern Israel?


No. Jews abrogated the Torah with their Rabbinical tradition.
But who allowed the Jews to change God's commandments with Rabbinical traditions?

Israel never really observed Moses' customs if you read the records. The Judges is the great early example. A few kings enforced important parts, but then kings themselves are against the Law (see St. Samuel's great explication) and enforcement was not provided by Moses (courts were provided; enforcement was to be carried out by family and neighbors of the defiant one).

Rabbinical tradition was a reaction to the history. The Jews accepted that their diaspora was to teach them to observe the Law (see the Maccabees), and lawyers became prestigious. How their schools of thought became so very ambitious and fastidious is a good question. There's some irony in the people among the first in the world to have a written literature (yes, I know this isn't in modern fashion to say) becoming slaves to the ineffective aspects of written language.
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Offline andrewlya

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Re: Judaism
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2014, 05:23:11 PM »
Hi all,
I would like to know whether Orthodox Jews still adhere to Old Testament Laws and traditions i.e. stoning adulters to death etc does it still happen in modern Israel?


No. Jews abrogated the Torah with their Rabbinical tradition.
But who allowed the Jews to change God's commandments with Rabbinical traditions?

Israel never really observed Moses' customs if you read the records. The Judges is the great early example. A few kings enforced important parts, but then kings themselves are against the Law (see St. Samuel's great explication) and enforcement was not provided by Moses (courts were provided; enforcement was to be carried out by family and neighbors of the defiant one).

Rabbinical tradition was a reaction to the history. The Jews accepted that their diaspora was to teach them to observe the Law (see the Maccabees), and lawyers became prestigious. How their schools of thought became so very ambitious and fastidious is a good question. There's some irony in the people among the first in the world to have a written literature (yes, I know this isn't in modern fashion to say) becoming slaves to the ineffective aspects of written language.

I am realy surprised, and still not convinced at the reasons as to why they don't follow their own Moses's Law? I mean Muslims follow it, but the Jews don't?
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Offline homedad76

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Re: Judaism
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2014, 05:26:15 PM »
This would probably be a good question for an Orthodox Jewish forum.  I don't think any of us are exactly experts on the current practices of other religions.  Also Zionism (Israel) and Orthodox Jewry are far from mutually exclusive.  There are alot of reformed Jews who support Israel and many Orthodox Jews who are very anti-Zionist and believe the Jewish state violates the Torah.  I only know this from Jewish friends but I still would not speak for them beyond that.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2014, 05:29:36 PM by homedad76 »
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Offline andrewlya

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Re: Judaism
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2014, 05:27:18 PM »
This would probably be a good question for an Orthodox Jewish forum.  I don't think any of us are exactly experts on the current practices of other religions.
A fair point, I thought there may be some former Orthodox Jews here who could clarify :)
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Judaism
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2014, 05:43:38 PM »
I am realy surprised ...

Just read your Bible (or a Jewish one, for that matter).

Quote
... and still not convinced at the reasons as to why they don't follow their own Moses's Law?

Israel was a group of human beings. We don't need "reasons" to stray from founding law -- human nature is enough reason.

Quote
I mean Muslims follow it, but the Jews don't?

Now I am the one who is "really surprised." No, Muslims do not observe Torah, either as it is recorded or in the rabbinic fashions -- where did you get such information?
« Last Edit: August 21, 2014, 05:44:49 PM by Porter ODoran »
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline andrewlya

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Re: Judaism
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2014, 06:00:33 PM »
I am realy surprised ...

Just read your Bible (or a Jewish one, for that matter).

Quote
... and still not convinced at the reasons as to why they don't follow their own Moses's Law?

Israel was a group of human beings. We don't need "reasons" to stray from founding law -- human nature is enough reason.

Quote
I mean Muslims follow it, but the Jews don't?

Now I am the one who is "really surprised." No, Muslims do not observe Torah, either as it is recorded or in the rabbinic fashions -- where did you get such information?

They don't eat swine, they stone for adultery and blasphemy etc which were the Laws given by God in the O.T.
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Offline biro

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Re: Judaism
« Reply #12 on: August 21, 2014, 06:09:30 PM »
I am realy surprised ...

Just read your Bible (or a Jewish one, for that matter).

Quote
... and still not convinced at the reasons as to why they don't follow their own Moses's Law?

Israel was a group of human beings. We don't need "reasons" to stray from founding law -- human nature is enough reason.

Quote
I mean Muslims follow it, but the Jews don't?

Now I am the one who is "really surprised." No, Muslims do not observe Torah, either as it is recorded or in the rabbinic fashions -- where did you get such information?

They don't eat swine, they stone for adultery and blasphemy etc which were the Laws given by God in the O.T.

Those are certainly not the only laws. There are hundreds more. For instance, I haven't heard yet of a Muslim who keeps the Commandment, "You shall not seethe a kid in its mother's milk." That is to say, no mixing of meat and dairy in the same meal. You never see a Muslim who keeps two sets of plates, one for meat and the other for dairy. They don't keep kosher.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Judaism
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2014, 06:11:45 PM »
I am realy surprised ...

Just read your Bible (or a Jewish one, for that matter).

Quote
... and still not convinced at the reasons as to why they don't follow their own Moses's Law?

Israel was a group of human beings. We don't need "reasons" to stray from founding law -- human nature is enough reason.

Quote
I mean Muslims follow it, but the Jews don't?

Now I am the one who is "really surprised." No, Muslims do not observe Torah, either as it is recorded or in the rabbinic fashions -- where did you get such information?

They don't eat swine, they stone for adultery and blasphemy etc which were the Laws given by God in the O.T.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?version=NASB&search=Leviticus%201

Read that and the next 26 chapters, and I'll give you your next assignment.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline jewish voice

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Re: Judaism
« Reply #14 on: August 21, 2014, 07:17:54 PM »
613 but who's keeping count :laugh:

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Judaism
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2014, 07:25:06 PM »
I am realy surprised ...

Just read your Bible (or a Jewish one, for that matter).

Quote
... and still not convinced at the reasons as to why they don't follow their own Moses's Law?

Israel was a group of human beings. We don't need "reasons" to stray from founding law -- human nature is enough reason.

Quote
I mean Muslims follow it, but the Jews don't?

Now I am the one who is "really surprised." No, Muslims do not observe Torah, either as it is recorded or in the rabbinic fashions -- where did you get such information?

They don't eat swine, they stone for adultery and blasphemy etc which were the Laws given by God in the O.T.

Those are certainly not the only laws. There are hundreds more. For instance, I haven't heard yet of a Muslim who keeps the Commandment, "You shall not seethe a kid in its mother's milk." That is to say, no mixing of meat and dairy in the same meal. You never see a Muslim who keeps two sets of plates, one for meat and the other for dairy. They don't keep kosher.

Not to mention

"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline andrewlya

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Re: Judaism
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2014, 03:27:37 PM »
I am realy surprised ...

Just read your Bible (or a Jewish one, for that matter).

Quote
... and still not convinced at the reasons as to why they don't follow their own Moses's Law?

Israel was a group of human beings. We don't need "reasons" to stray from founding law -- human nature is enough reason.

Quote
I mean Muslims follow it, but the Jews don't?

Now I am the one who is "really surprised." No, Muslims do not observe Torah, either as it is recorded or in the rabbinic fashions -- where did you get such information?

They don't eat swine, they stone for adultery and blasphemy etc which were the Laws given by God in the O.T.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?version=NASB&search=Leviticus%201

Read that and the next 26 chapters, and I'll give you your next assignment.
Coincidently, Im reading the Bible from the start and I come across a lot of God's commands in some of them God says to follow them throughout your generations...so that's why I wonder, if God means forever, then why Jews suddenly stopped following the what Mosses had revealed to them..
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Judaism
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2014, 01:28:48 PM »
I am realy surprised ...

Just read your Bible (or a Jewish one, for that matter).

Quote
... and still not convinced at the reasons as to why they don't follow their own Moses's Law?

Israel was a group of human beings. We don't need "reasons" to stray from founding law -- human nature is enough reason.

Quote
I mean Muslims follow it, but the Jews don't?

Now I am the one who is "really surprised." No, Muslims do not observe Torah, either as it is recorded or in the rabbinic fashions -- where did you get such information?

They don't eat swine, they stone for adultery and blasphemy etc which were the Laws given by God in the O.T.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?version=NASB&search=Leviticus%201

Read that and the next 26 chapters, and I'll give you your next assignment.
Coincidently, Im reading the Bible from the start and I come across a lot of God's commands in some of them God says to follow them throughout your generations...so that's why I wonder, if God means forever, then why Jews suddenly stopped following the what Mosses had revealed to them..

You know, you could go ask one.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline WPM

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Re: Judaism
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2014, 01:49:26 PM »
Hi all,
I would like to know whether Orthodox Jews still adhere to Old Testament Laws and traditions i.e. stoning adulters to death etc does it still happen in modern Israel?


You ask an experienced Rabbi for formal questions and answers.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2014, 01:52:26 PM by WPM »
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Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Judaism
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2014, 02:00:34 PM »
613 but who's keeping count :laugh:

That's strange, I don't see Rabbis wearing purple vestments... on the other hand:



I am realy surprised ...

Just read your Bible (or a Jewish one, for that matter).

Quote
... and still not convinced at the reasons as to why they don't follow their own Moses's Law?

Israel was a group of human beings. We don't need "reasons" to stray from founding law -- human nature is enough reason.

Quote
I mean Muslims follow it, but the Jews don't?

Now I am the one who is "really surprised." No, Muslims do not observe Torah, either as it is recorded or in the rabbinic fashions -- where did you get such information?

They don't eat swine, they stone for adultery and blasphemy etc which were the Laws given by God in the O.T.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?version=NASB&search=Leviticus%201

Read that and the next 26 chapters, and I'll give you your next assignment.
Coincidently, Im reading the Bible from the start and I come across a lot of God's commands in some of them God says to follow them throughout your generations...so that's why I wonder, if God means forever, then why Jews suddenly stopped following the what Mosses had revealed to them..

You know, you could go ask one.

What they would tell you is that Moses revealed an oral tradition alongside the written text, and that Rabbinical tradition adheres faithfully to that oral tradition.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Judaism
« Reply #20 on: August 23, 2014, 02:20:50 PM »
What they would tell you is that Moses revealed an oral tradition alongside the written text, and that Rabbinical tradition adheres faithfully to that oral tradition.

Which is not entirely unlike Christianity as many understand it.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Judaism
« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2014, 02:25:48 PM »
What they would tell you is that Moses revealed an oral tradition alongside the written text, and that Rabbinical tradition adheres faithfully to that oral tradition.

Which is not entirely unlike Christianity as many understand it.

Except that Moses lived 4000 years before Christ existed... and that the oral tradition in question wasn't codified until the Middle Ages... and that competing oral traditions of the Sadducees, Essenes and Samaritans also existed that taught against the teachings of the Pharisaical Rabbis.
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Offline JamesR

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Re: Judaism
« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2014, 08:04:27 PM »
613 but who's keeping count :laugh:

Sometimes I envy Jews for having those clear 613 rules. I wish Christianity had more clearcut rules laid out for us than all this *principle* crap where we have to figure out for ourselves if something is permitted or not based off of those complex theological statements in the NT.

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Judaism
« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2014, 08:32:19 PM »
613 but who's keeping count :laugh:

Sometimes I envy Jews for having those clear 613 rules. I wish Christianity had more clearcut rules laid out for us than all this *principle* crap where we have to figure out for ourselves if something is permitted or not based off of those complex theological statements in the NT.

Yeah... I'm going to have to go and disagree with you there. No matter if it's "clearcut rules" or "principles" there is always disagreement as to their meaning.
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Offline Aquensis

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Re: Judaism
« Reply #24 on: August 24, 2014, 12:23:53 AM »
Hi all,
I would like to know whether Orthodox Jews still adhere to Old Testament Laws and traditions i.e. stoning adulters to death etc does it still happen in modern Israel?


No. Jews abrogated the Torah with their Rabbinical tradition.
But who allowed the Jews to change God's commandments with Rabbinical traditions?

From what I've read most Jews seem to think the law is more about showing how seriously wrong some things are. The motivating factor is not to commit adultery, not to stone adulterers, if that makes any sense. Think of the law about marrying the person you raped for instance. Everyone loves to mention it to point out how awful and terrible Judaism and by extension Christianity is but they are missing the point. They never really did that, it was to dissuade people from even having the idea of raping anyone. They were clever like that, reading it in a very basic literal way just shows how really uneducated we are today.

Offline Aquensis

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Re: Judaism
« Reply #25 on: August 24, 2014, 12:33:12 AM »
I am realy surprised ...

Just read your Bible (or a Jewish one, for that matter).

Quote
... and still not convinced at the reasons as to why they don't follow their own Moses's Law?

Israel was a group of human beings. We don't need "reasons" to stray from founding law -- human nature is enough reason.

Quote
I mean Muslims follow it, but the Jews don't?

Now I am the one who is "really surprised." No, Muslims do not observe Torah, either as it is recorded or in the rabbinic fashions -- where did you get such information?

They don't eat swine, they stone for adultery and blasphemy etc which were the Laws given by God in the O.T.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?version=NASB&search=Leviticus%201

Read that and the next 26 chapters, and I'll give you your next assignment.
Coincidently, Im reading the Bible from the start and I come across a lot of God's commands in some of them God says to follow them throughout your generations...so that's why I wonder, if God means forever, then why Jews suddenly stopped following the what Mosses had revealed to them..

Who says they are not? Maybe they are focusing on the not committing adultery, etc, part and its working out. In a society where married men and women do not have private friendships with people of the other sex it would not be surprising if they were good at avoiding it.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Judaism
« Reply #26 on: August 24, 2014, 03:24:37 AM »
... In a society where married men and women do not have private friendships with people of the other sex it would not be surprising if they were good at avoiding it.

This might make sense from some biased perspectives. In fact, open and friendly relation between the sexes leads to better understanding and behavior, not the other way around. Of course if a culture with a stern divide between the sexes were suddenly thrown into a state forcing the sexes to rub shoulders, consternation could be assumed to follow. However, where tradition has had relations between the sexes common and congenial, such as in England or (for matrons) France of 1800s, there has certainly not been an epidemic of adultery and other sexual chaos.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

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Offline orthonorm

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Re: Judaism
« Reply #27 on: August 24, 2014, 04:32:52 AM »
Hi all,
I would like to know whether Orthodox Jews still adhere to Old Testament Laws and traditions i.e. stoning adulters to death etc does it still happen in modern Israel?


No. Jews abrogated the Torah with their Rabbinical tradition.

Abrogate.

Sorta like Christianity from day one. See the NT forward. Or is it the movement of the Spirit?

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Judaism
« Reply #28 on: August 24, 2014, 04:38:49 AM »
Hi all,
I would like to know whether Orthodox Jews still adhere to Old Testament Laws and traditions i.e. stoning adulters to death etc does it still happen in modern Israel?


No. Jews abrogated the Torah with their Rabbinical tradition.

Abrogate.

Sorta like Christianity from day one. See the NT forward. Or is it the movement of the Spirit?

Perhaps you're forgetting the Saints and the religious orders. Christ himself teaches a difference between the specially dikaios and those who merely "receive" them; but also says that both shall inherit the same reward.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

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Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline rakovsky

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Re: Judaism
« Reply #29 on: August 24, 2014, 02:00:00 PM »
Israel never really observed Moses' customs if you read the records. The Judges is the great early example. A few kings enforced important parts, but then kings themselves are against the Law (see St. Samuel's great explication)
Can you please say where the prophet says that in the Bible? Is there a prohibition on creating a political state, as opposed to just people living in tribes that don't form a state?

The idea that their tribes would rule a certain territory seems to be part of the Torah.


Quote
There's some irony in the people among the first in the world to have a written literature (yes, I know this isn't in modern fashion to say) becoming slaves to the ineffective aspects of written language.
I don't know what you mean about modern fashion?
Moses wrote down the first five books of the Bible, supposedly, and he lived in the 2nd millenium BC. Egyptian literature supposedly dates from the Old Kingdom in the early 3rd millenium BC. I think that the Sumerians were even older the Egyptians. The Chinese were also pretty ancient in their writing.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2014, 02:01:10 PM by rakovsky »
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Offline lovesupreme

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Re: Judaism
« Reply #30 on: August 24, 2014, 02:41:33 PM »
Same reason the Sanhendrin had to seek Pilate's sentence-they don't have authority to impose a capital sentence, or jurisdiction over any criminal procedure defined as such by the state.

ialmisry is correct. I am a former Orthodox Jew.

Regarding rabbinical Judaism: it is, to an Orthodox Jew, a faithful carrying out of both the written and oral Law, legitimately adapted for Jews living in diaspora (that is, without a Temple) by those with the authority to determine how the Law should be interpreted.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2014, 02:43:47 PM by lovesupreme »

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Judaism
« Reply #31 on: August 25, 2014, 02:08:40 PM »
613 but who's keeping count :laugh:

Sometimes I envy Jews for having those clear 613 rules. I wish Christianity had more clearcut rules laid out for us than all this *principle* crap where we have to figure out for ourselves if something is permitted or not based off of those complex theological statements in the NT.
James, you can't even keep up with the 10 commandments and yet you want 603 more rules?  What are you, a glutton for punishment?
God bless!

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Re: Judaism
« Reply #32 on: August 25, 2014, 02:16:04 PM »
613 but who's keeping count :laugh:

Sometimes I envy Jews for having those clear 613 rules. I wish Christianity had more clearcut rules laid out for us than all this *principle* crap where we have to figure out for ourselves if something is permitted or not based off of those complex theological statements in the NT.

I imagine a lot of that "crap" is common sense, with some leeway just in case you make a mistake. It would not be so with 613 distinct rules. There are so many specific ones that you're bound to forget them sometimes but, hey, they're so clearcut, how could you screw up?
"Take heed, you who listen to me: Our misfortune is inevitable, we cannot escape it. If God allows scandals, it is that the elect shall be revealed. Let them be burned, let them be purified, let them who have been tried be made manifest among you."   - The Life of the Archpriest Avvakum by Himself

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: Judaism
« Reply #33 on: August 25, 2014, 02:33:07 PM »
Same reason the Sanhendrin had to seek Pilate's sentence-they don't have authority to impose a capital sentence, or jurisdiction over any criminal procedure defined as such by the state.

ialmisry is correct. I am a former Orthodox Jew.

Regarding rabbinical Judaism: it is, to an Orthodox Jew, a faithful carrying out of both the written and oral Law, legitimately adapted for Jews living in diaspora (that is, without a Temple) by those with the authority to determine how the Law should be interpreted.

+1
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Re: Judaism
« Reply #34 on: August 25, 2014, 07:07:22 PM »
613 but who's keeping count :laugh:

Sometimes I envy Jews for having those clear 613 rules. I wish Christianity had more clearcut rules laid out for us than all this *principle* crap where we have to figure out for ourselves if something is permitted or not based off of those complex theological statements in the NT.
James, you can't even keep up with the 10 commandments and yet you want 603 more rules?  What are you, a glutton for punishment?

Kind of. Maybe it's some weird problem in my psych, but I want an angrier God who will punish me. I feel closer to the OT Jewish God than God's new persona in the NT and Christianity.

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Re: Judaism
« Reply #35 on: August 25, 2014, 07:33:02 PM »
Don't fret. "God is angry with the wicked every day." Americans suffer in all sorts of ways. And when our destruction comes, it will be magnificent.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

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Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

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Re: Judaism
« Reply #36 on: August 25, 2014, 07:50:57 PM »

Kind of. Maybe it's some weird problem in my psych, but I want an angrier God who will punish me. I feel closer to the OT Jewish God than God's new persona in the NT and Christianity.

Don't make me dig up all your posts where you complain that God won't let you have any fun.  :P ::) ::)
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

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Re: Judaism
« Reply #37 on: August 25, 2014, 08:00:38 PM »

Kind of. Maybe it's some weird problem in my psych, but I want an angrier God who will punish me. I feel closer to the OT Jewish God than God's new persona in the NT and Christianity.

Don't make me dig up all your posts where you complain that God won't let you have any fun.  :P ::) ::)

Well both Gods don't let me have any fun so that's already a given. I'm just talking about the personality. I prefer God's personality in the OT more than I do the NT.

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Re: Judaism
« Reply #38 on: August 25, 2014, 08:12:26 PM »

Kind of. Maybe it's some weird problem in my psych, but I want an angrier God who will punish me. I feel closer to the OT Jewish God than God's new persona in the NT and Christianity.

Don't make me dig up all your posts where you complain that God won't let you have any fun.  :P ::) ::)

Well both Gods don't let me have any fun so that's already a given. I'm just talking about the personality. I prefer God's personality in the OT more than I do the NT.

Both Gods. 
This post gave me autism.

Since when has a Hierarch done anything for you? . . .

Apparently you can get the Juice or Power from a certain Icon.

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Re: Judaism
« Reply #39 on: August 25, 2014, 08:14:03 PM »

Kind of. Maybe it's some weird problem in my psych, but I want an angrier God who will punish me. I feel closer to the OT Jewish God than God's new persona in the NT and Christianity.

Don't make me dig up all your posts where you complain that God won't let you have any fun.  :P ::) ::)

Well both Gods don't let me have any fun so that's already a given. I'm just talking about the personality. I prefer God's personality in the OT more than I do the NT.

Both Gods. 

Yes, yes, I know. Neo-Marcionism.

Offline orthonorm

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Re: Judaism
« Reply #40 on: August 25, 2014, 10:41:52 PM »

Kind of. Maybe it's some weird problem in my psych, but I want an angrier God who will punish me. I feel closer to the OT Jewish God than God's new persona in the NT and Christianity.

Don't make me dig up all your posts where you complain that God won't let you have any fun.  :P ::) ::)

Well both Gods don't let me have any fun so that's already a given. I'm just talking about the personality. I prefer God's personality in the OT more than I do the NT.

Both Gods. 

Yes, yes, I know. Neo-Marcionism.

Paleo-Marcionism. if you have any hope of attracting a following and turning a buck.

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Re: Judaism
« Reply #41 on: August 26, 2014, 10:35:18 PM »
I prefer God's personality in the OT more than I do the NT.

You are really all over the place.  At one point you hate the "injustice" of God, but then you want God to be a warrior-type wrathful deity?

I don't want to dwell on your past.  I do not feel you have a messed up mind.  You just have an interesting and wild amalgam of imagination and ideas.  You are an intelligent young man.  And you came into the Church and as you are baptized into the Church, you have inherited the divine sonship, and accepted the Fatherhood of God.  What a true Father does is that He works with His children and treats His children at different stages of growth.  If humanity is taken collectively, the more primitive humanity was, the more different our heavenly Father seemed, but it's the same Father.

God treats you now like an adult, as an equal, because His Son took flesh and became co-essential with you.  And now, He elevates you.  Christ said, "Be perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect".  Your perfection does not come as a mere invocation of imitating Christ, but even more so, imitate your own Father.  Be loving, be caring, and be discerning in the way you treat issues and people.  And be humble.  At times, you tend to think you know everything.  The first step of wisdom and knowledge is that you know nothing (source: Socrates).  St. Paul fulfills this to a better degree (1 Cor. 8 ):  "We know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffs up, but love edifies. And if anyone thinks that he knows anything, he knows nothing yet as he ought to know. But if anyone loves God, this one is known by Him."  

Imagine the honor of the Father who knows you.  That is why love edifies, and summarizing God both in the Old and New Testaments, we see not two different Gods, but one God, the God who is Love.  Even Christ proclaims that to summarize all the law of the prophets and the fathers, it is summed up in the two greatest commandments of love, and humanity grows and progresses to perfect these two laws, even until today, better than a hundred years ago.

So is discernment difficult?  It becomes actually less difficult as you grow.  You are able to discern better as a 19-year-old than you did as a 15-year-old.  Imagine how it will be like when you accept the fact that you continue to grow and appreciate this discernment from the Father Himself!
« Last Edit: August 26, 2014, 10:36:46 PM by minasoliman »
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Re: Judaism
« Reply #42 on: January 10, 2018, 11:00:11 PM »
Does anyone know if the Jews practiced anything like the Muslim's "Call to prayer", as in, if they played horns, anything like that, early in the morning? I forget what the Muslims call it.
I suppose that's how church bells began something like that, yeah?
In America, I never put the two and two together. I always imagined it was like how some banks, libraries, etc. a lot of times have a public clock.
Anonymous.

Offline Volnutt

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Re: Judaism
« Reply #43 on: February 21, 2018, 12:56:14 AM »
Does anyone know if the Jews practiced anything like the Muslim's "Call to prayer", as in, if they played horns, anything like that, early in the morning? I forget what the Muslims call it.
I suppose that's how church bells began something like that, yeah?
In America, I never put the two and two together. I always imagined it was like how some banks, libraries, etc. a lot of times have a public clock.

The Muslim call to prayer is called the Adhan. Jews have the Barechu, though it's only spoken as part of the synagogue service, not as an external thing over loudspeakers like in Islam. For that, the Jews blow the shofar rams horn, but only during feast days.
Christ my God, set my heart on fire with love in You, that in its flame I may love You with all my heart, with all my mind, and with all my soul and with all my strength, and my neighbor as myself, so that by keeping Your commandments I may glorify You the Giver of every good and perfect gift. Amen.