Author Topic: choosing a landing place  (Read 10958 times)

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Offline Maria

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Re: choosing a landing place
« Reply #90 on: August 24, 2014, 03:27:32 PM »
It is good to ask questions.

There is an orthodox church not too far from me.

It does raise some red flags, however:

1. The pastor and his wife are both ministers.

2. The pastor and his wife claim to be consecrated as bishops.

3. need I continue?
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: choosing a landing place
« Reply #91 on: August 24, 2014, 04:24:06 PM »
It is good to ask questions.

There is an orthodox church not too far from me.

It does raise some red flags, however:

1. The pastor and his wife are both ministers.

2. The pastor and his wife claim to be consecrated as bishops.

3. need I continue?


These are not the same type of questions being asked and you know it.

Quit encouraging someone's extreme scrupulousity
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Offline Maria

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Re: choosing a landing place
« Reply #92 on: August 24, 2014, 04:29:50 PM »
It is good to ask questions.

There is an orthodox church not too far from me.

It does raise some red flags, however:

1. The pastor and his wife are both ministers.

2. The pastor and his wife claim to be consecrated as bishops.

3. need I continue?


These are not the same type of questions being asked and you know it.

Quit encouraging someone's extreme scrupulousity

Liefern does not have extreme scrupulosity.

Inquirers have gone to the wrong churches. I just was pointing out that every church that claims to be "orthodox" might not be so. Even Antiochian Bishop Basil said that churches that smell, look, and taste like Orthodox Churches might not be. He was referring to Eastern Catholic Churches.
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline dzheremi

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Re: choosing a landing place
« Reply #93 on: August 24, 2014, 05:56:37 PM »
Please. If Liefern or anyone cannot distinguish between an Eastern Catholic and an Eastern Orthodox Church, then either someone is not being honest and accurate with their signage, or someone is not paying attention during the commemorations, or both (or any number of other problems). At any rate, that's a more basic problem then the tiny minutiae that Liefern is focused on. I won't diagnose someone I don't know with scrupulousity, but I will say that I was RC before becoming Orthodox, and so I recognize the approach to the faith nurtured there when I see it (and others have seen it and commented on it in this thread, too).

Similarly, regarding the example you have brought: A man claims that both he and his wife are consecrated as bishops. As Liefern seems to be the reading type (by gum!), I wouldn't imagine that they are unaware that the Orthodox Church does not have female bishops. So that's not so much a problem, is it? Or at least it has really nothing to do with the thread. You may not be feeding scrupulousity, but by pointing to more schismatic or irregular groups, you certainly aren't helping ameliorate fears of ending up in the wrong place, which keep people who are concerned with being wrong from attending any church before they are 100% convinced it is the most pure/holy/correct church ever (which is an impossible standard to entertain in the abstract, hence why almost everyone in this thread is telling the OP that the questions being asked are malformed).

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: choosing a landing place
« Reply #94 on: August 24, 2014, 06:31:37 PM »
Many of Liefern's questions have been -- leading. If those are the one's he feels have not been "answered," I could assume he was hoping for a chorus of Yes.
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Offline Maria

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Re: choosing a landing place
« Reply #95 on: August 24, 2014, 06:40:44 PM »
We have had people here who really thought that they were attending an Orthodox parish, but their "church" ended up being one of those vagante churches much like the bishop who used a curtain rod as a staff. I will not link to his site as he has threatened to sue if one does so.

It is good to let inquirers know immediately by posting a link showing the location of Orthodox Churches in communion with the EP and MP, or by showing the link to those under the GOC-K, Metropolia, etc., so that those strange vagante churches can be avoided at the very beginning of the quest.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2014, 06:56:24 PM by Maria »
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.