OrthodoxChristianity.net
December 18, 2014, 12:23:19 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: What is the Orthodox Church odds with Rome's papacy and how do Catholics...  (Read 5596 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Moderated
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 38,135



« Reply #270 on: August 15, 2014, 05:28:52 PM »

In my imperfect way I am trying to witness, because, exactly because of my background, I have some idea what I'm talking about, particularly to Western converts.

The "move to Russia" dare is obviously rhetorical but logical based on the hardline Orthodox opinion that we're frauds because, when it comes right down to it, we're not in their culture. That's making an idol of their culture, even though that culture's a good thing. (Every sin is aiming at an apparent good.)
The only frauds I know the Russians say that about is the ones who call themselves "Russian Catholics" who are frauds in more ways than one (and the Russians call them on it).
No, I want all Eastern Christians, here and in their homelands, back in our holy mother, the church, and to remain among us in the West. Because the reasons you had for leaving just don't hold water, yet you are still a part of us, close to our hearts.
whom are you saying left?
We're not trying to stamp out your traditions. Quite the opposite.
Who's "we"?
We did podkarpatska's family and others like them a horrible injustice but none of that was about our doctrine. The church has the authority to impose clerical celibacy on Eastern churches in Western countries, but we shouldn't have.
The Church doesn't have the authority to impose clerical celibacy anywhere.  St. Paphnoutios made that clear over 16 centuries ago.

Most of our priests and laity barely know you are here. Sorry, that's how it is right now. Educated Catholics are working on that.
Yes.
http://www.ocmc.org/
Right, Ekdikos: single principle. Not a Quaternity. Different theological opinions. No sale on the schism of the Orthodox.
Then why do you keep trying to sell it?
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Moderated
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 38,135



« Reply #271 on: August 15, 2014, 05:30:57 PM »

The excommunication was simply an acknowledgement that you left us.
We acknowledged you left us in 1017. Your envoy Umberto was a little late.
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
Antonis
"The Most Honourable The Morquess of Something"
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: GOA - Direct Archdiocesan District
Posts: 1,674


You must try this Balkan blend, Barsanuphius.


« Reply #272 on: August 15, 2014, 05:54:24 PM »

Quote
The Church doesn't have the authority to impose clerical celibacy anywhere.
So it applies differently when one is speaking about presbyters versus bishops? I don't buy that. While I don't think priestly celibacy is necessary or even a positive thing in all cases, I trust that if the church wished to impose priestly celibacy it would have full power to do so.

Besides, the East was okay with such local customs in the West.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 05:54:58 PM by Antonis » Logged

As I dissipate, Christ precipitates.
xariskai
юродивый/yurodivy
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 1,440


יהוה עזי ומגני


« Reply #273 on: August 15, 2014, 06:54:02 PM »

the reasons you had for leaving just don't hold water, yet you are still a part of us, close to our hearts.
We are "a part of you," you say, and yet at the same time you officially anathematize/excommunicate us if we deny papal infallibility (which we do) and papal universal jurisdiction (which we do). That, unfortunately, is incoherent.

An anathematized, excommunicated part of you. As said previously, nice gesture, but thanks for nothing.

If you believe that isn't incoherent I'd like to sell you a sausage biscuit that is not made of matter (it is non-substantive) which you can eat again and again and again, like a regurgitated assertion the arguments against which go forever unaddressed. It will come to your mailbox, though you won't be able to see or feel it; I'll send you a PayPal invoice if you're interested.

No, I want all Eastern Christians, here and in their homelands, back in our holy mother, the church, and to remain among us in the West.
Again that's most kind of you. Now if you are sincere, remove your official anathemas against all who deny what every Orthodox Christian denies (not limited to papal infallibility, pronounced in 1870, a more recent dogmatic innovation than the Protestant Reformation), and which your own Western Roman Catholic tradition denied universally and for centuries in papal oaths and Ecumenical Councils.

The church has the authority to impose clerical celibacy on Eastern churches in Western countries, but we shouldn't have.
Vatican I states not only that you should have immediate universal jurisdiction but that you do. We agree that you shouldn't and insist that you don't, but are under a standing anathema from you because of it. Please be careful or you might become a dissenter in your own tradition.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 07:21:49 PM by xariskai » Logged

Silly Stars
Sam G
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christianity
Jurisdiction: ROCOR (Old Rite)
Posts: 620


All ye Saints, pray to God for me a sinner.


« Reply #274 on: August 15, 2014, 08:27:33 PM »

The excommunication was simply an acknowledgement that you left us.

Cardinal Humbert would like to have a word with you.
Logged

All of my hope, I place in thee, O Mother of God; do preserve me under they shelter.
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Moderated
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 38,135



« Reply #275 on: August 15, 2014, 08:36:54 PM »

Quote
The Church doesn't have the authority to impose clerical celibacy anywhere.
So it applies differently when one is speaking about presbyters versus bishops? I don't buy that. While I don't think priestly celibacy is necessary or even a positive thing in all cases, I trust that if the church wished to impose priestly celibacy it would have full power to do so.

Besides, the East was okay with such local customs in the West.
No, we weren't. It is constantly brought up long before the second millenium (e.g. the Pentheke Council)-and condemned.

There are different issues involved in the case of bishops. Btw, the Vatican now has reversed itself on the issue in their Latin rites in regard to deacons.
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
The young fogey
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,814


I'm an alpaca, actually


WWW
« Reply #276 on: August 15, 2014, 08:41:30 PM »

The Orthodox are just minions of the state, and if the state isn't Orthodox, it is a minion of whoever is in charge, with a big dose of ethnocentrism mixed in. Not attractive in the modern world, but a good explanation why so many Orthodox have such a bad attitude about the Catholic Church and the Pope, reminders that the church isn't an ethnic club but is the company of the saints from all races and groups on earth.
Logged

"You always were a historically illiterate jerk, John." - OicwR doyen Stuart Koehl

High-church libertarian
Blog
ErmyCath
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Catechumen
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox
Posts: 195



« Reply #277 on: August 15, 2014, 08:50:06 PM »

The Orthodox are just minions of the state, and if the state isn't Orthodox, it is a minion of whoever is in charge, with a big dose of ethnocentrism mixed in. Not attractive in the modern world, but a good explanation why so many Orthodox have such a bad attitude about the Catholic Church and the Pope, reminders that the church isn't an ethnic club but is the company of the saints from all races and groups on earth.

Of course, according to your logic, the a Orthodox Church could never be made up of all races and groups on earth because it can't include westerners as they only join due to self-hatred.
Logged

"You must have an opinion on everything and loudly confront everyone with it." - Cyrillic
xariskai
юродивый/yurodivy
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 1,440


יהוה עזי ומגני


« Reply #278 on: August 15, 2014, 09:05:01 PM »

the church isn't an ethnic club
Ethno-phyletism has been officially pronounced a heresy by the Orthodox Church.
http://orthodoxwiki.org/Phyletism

Perhaps you are becoming Orthodox yourself and do not yet fully realize it -you are agreeing with us on this one point after all, although to your discredit you do continue to charge the Orthodox Church with holding to precisely what we officially deny and pronounce heretical (Phyletism).

« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 09:07:22 PM by xariskai » Logged

Silly Stars
Sam G
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christianity
Jurisdiction: ROCOR (Old Rite)
Posts: 620


All ye Saints, pray to God for me a sinner.


« Reply #279 on: August 15, 2014, 09:07:58 PM »

The Orthodox are just minions of the state, and if the state isn't Orthodox, it is a minion of whoever is in charge, with a big dose of ethnocentrism mixed in. Not attractive in the modern world, but a good explanation why so many Orthodox have such a bad attitude about the Catholic Church and the Pope, reminders that the church isn't an ethnic club but is the company of the saints from all races and groups on earth.

Really? By that logic the OCA and the president should be getting into bed any day now, never mind the Russian and Greek New-Martyrs. I'm not that charitable to the Catholic Church or the papacy, but I'm neither Greek, Arab, Serbian, Ukrainian, or Russian. Perhaps it's because I'm fully capable of forming my own opinions on the subject without the influence of my bloodlines? 217 Italian popes out of 266 is a really good reminder that the church isn't an ethnic club isn't it? Confining the office of "Supreme Pontiff of the Universal Church" to the Latin Rite is also a good reminder that we're all equal here too.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 09:08:33 PM by Sam G » Logged

All of my hope, I place in thee, O Mother of God; do preserve me under they shelter.
The young fogey
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,814


I'm an alpaca, actually


WWW
« Reply #280 on: August 15, 2014, 09:14:03 PM »

The Orthodox are just minions of the state, and if the state isn't Orthodox, it is a minion of whoever is in charge, with a big dose of ethnocentrism mixed in. Not attractive in the modern world, but a good explanation why so many Orthodox have such a bad attitude about the Catholic Church and the Pope, reminders that the church isn't an ethnic club but is the company of the saints from all races and groups on earth.

Of course, according to your logic, the a Orthodox Church could never be made up of all races and groups on earth because it can't include westerners as they only join due to self-hatred.

Actually that's a lot of people's experience. Want to talk about your 60% failure/return rate with converts? And you're right; it's not always self-hatred. Often it's deracinated white folks who married ethnics.
Logged

"You always were a historically illiterate jerk, John." - OicwR doyen Stuart Koehl

High-church libertarian
Blog
podkarpatska
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ACROD
Posts: 8,945


Pokrov


WWW
« Reply #281 on: August 15, 2014, 09:15:13 PM »

The Orthodox are just minions of the state, and if the state isn't Orthodox, it is a minion of whoever is in charge, with a big dose of ethnocentrism mixed in. Not attractive in the modern world, but a good explanation why so many Orthodox have such a bad attitude about the Catholic Church and the Pope, reminders that the church isn't an ethnic club but is the company of the saints from all races and groups on earth.

Next time you're in Rome, why don't you try your arguments out at the Russicom (especially the ones about Latinized Greek Catholics and how Orthodoxy hates the west and needs a tsar or sultan as it is a minion of the state)  before you lunch with Popes Benedict and Francis. You probably won't get dessert though.

You really need to get out more.
Logged
Sam G
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christianity
Jurisdiction: ROCOR (Old Rite)
Posts: 620


All ye Saints, pray to God for me a sinner.


« Reply #282 on: August 15, 2014, 09:15:38 PM »

The Orthodox are just minions of the state, and if the state isn't Orthodox, it is a minion of whoever is in charge, with a big dose of ethnocentrism mixed in. Not attractive in the modern world, but a good explanation why so many Orthodox have such a bad attitude about the Catholic Church and the Pope, reminders that the church isn't an ethnic club but is the company of the saints from all races and groups on earth.

Of course, according to your logic, the a Orthodox Church could never be made up of all races and groups on earth because it can't include westerners as they only join due to self-hatred.

Actually that's a lot of people's experience. Want to talk about your 60% failure/return rate with converts? And you're right; it's not always self-hatred. Often it's deracinated white folks who married ethnics.

Source?
« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 09:16:36 PM by Sam G » Logged

All of my hope, I place in thee, O Mother of God; do preserve me under they shelter.
The young fogey
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,814


I'm an alpaca, actually


WWW
« Reply #283 on: August 15, 2014, 09:18:11 PM »

The Orthodox are just minions of the state, and if the state isn't Orthodox, it is a minion of whoever is in charge, with a big dose of ethnocentrism mixed in. Not attractive in the modern world, but a good explanation why so many Orthodox have such a bad attitude about the Catholic Church and the Pope, reminders that the church isn't an ethnic club but is the company of the saints from all races and groups on earth.

Next time you're in Rome, why don't you try your arguments out at the Russicom (especially the ones about Latinized Greek Catholics and how Orthodoxy hates the west and needs a tsar or sultan as it is a minion of the state)  before you lunch with Popes Benedict and Francis. You probably won't get dessert though.

You really need to get out more.

Pal, I've been to the whole round of weekend services at St. Michael's Russian Catholic Church in New York City and love it. I always defend the unlatinized form of the rite; I remember you ragging on me for trying to be nice by describing it as "pure." Guess the great unwashed papists just are damned whatever we say. I also defend the old latinized form.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 09:22:19 PM by The young fogey » Logged

"You always were a historically illiterate jerk, John." - OicwR doyen Stuart Koehl

High-church libertarian
Blog
xariskai
юродивый/yurodivy
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 1,440


יהוה עזי ומגני


« Reply #284 on: August 15, 2014, 09:19:43 PM »

your 60% failure/return rate with converts?
Documentation please

I don't know any Orthodox who hate themselves; do you have any primary sources by Orthodox Christians which so self designate, or have you an advanced degree in psychology/psychiatry, or are you just a-trollin'?
« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 09:22:39 PM by xariskai » Logged

Silly Stars
The young fogey
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,814


I'm an alpaca, actually


WWW
« Reply #285 on: August 15, 2014, 09:23:25 PM »

Fr. Bob Taft is a jerk.
Logged

"You always were a historically illiterate jerk, John." - OicwR doyen Stuart Koehl

High-church libertarian
Blog
xariskai
юродивый/yurodivy
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 1,440


יהוה עזי ומגני


« Reply #286 on: August 15, 2014, 09:27:26 PM »

No documentation; that's what I suspected. No irenic reply to arguments. That's also what I suspected.

I don't read these fora all the time, but I recall last seeing your posts in a thread years ago with the same self-hatred ethnic this ethnic that spiel; do you have any other unhelpful thoughts to post -a change might be nice.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 09:29:01 PM by xariskai » Logged

Silly Stars
Sam G
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christianity
Jurisdiction: ROCOR (Old Rite)
Posts: 620


All ye Saints, pray to God for me a sinner.


« Reply #287 on: August 15, 2014, 09:28:10 PM »

your 60% failure/return rate with converts?
Documentation please

I don't know any Orthodox who hate themselves; do you have any primary sources by Orthodox Christians which so self designate, or have you an advanced degree in psychology/psychiatry, or are you just a-trollin'?

The only reputable statistics related to retention I've found deal with those born in the faith. Orthodox slightly out preform Catholics (73%-68% respectively), but since we're just a bunch of crazy ethno-centrists this is to be expected.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 09:30:57 PM by Sam G » Logged

All of my hope, I place in thee, O Mother of God; do preserve me under they shelter.
podkarpatska
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ACROD
Posts: 8,945


Pokrov


WWW
« Reply #288 on: August 15, 2014, 09:31:56 PM »

The Orthodox are just minions of the state, and if the state isn't Orthodox, it is a minion of whoever is in charge, with a big dose of ethnocentrism mixed in. Not attractive in the modern world, but a good explanation why so many Orthodox have such a bad attitude about the Catholic Church and the Pope, reminders that the church isn't an ethnic club but is the company of the saints from all races and groups on earth.

Next time you're in Rome, why don't you try your arguments out at the Russicom (especially the ones about Latinized Greek Catholics and how Orthodoxy hates the west and needs a tsar or sultan as it is a minion of the state)  before you lunch with Popes Benedict and Francis. You probably won't get dessert though.

You really need to get out more.

Pal, I've been to the whole round of weekend services at St. Michael's Russian Catholic Church in New York City and love it. I always defend the unlatinized form of the rite; I remember you ragging on me for trying to be nice by describing it as "pure." Guess the great unwashed papists just are damned whatever we say. I also defend the old latinized form.

Your view of Orthodoxy is as ridiculous as the view of the view your church expressed by some of the more polemical orthodox posters here.

Logged
The young fogey
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,814


I'm an alpaca, actually


WWW
« Reply #289 on: August 15, 2014, 09:38:04 PM »

The Orthodox are just minions of the state, and if the state isn't Orthodox, it is a minion of whoever is in charge, with a big dose of ethnocentrism mixed in. Not attractive in the modern world, but a good explanation why so many Orthodox have such a bad attitude about the Catholic Church and the Pope, reminders that the church isn't an ethnic club but is the company of the saints from all races and groups on earth.

Next time you're in Rome, why don't you try your arguments out at the Russicom (especially the ones about Latinized Greek Catholics and how Orthodoxy hates the west and needs a tsar or sultan as it is a minion of the state)  before you lunch with Popes Benedict and Francis. You probably won't get dessert though.

You really need to get out more.

Pal, I've been to the whole round of weekend services at St. Michael's Russian Catholic Church in New York City and love it. I always defend the unlatinized form of the rite; I remember you ragging on me for trying to be nice by describing it as "pure." Guess the great unwashed papists just are damned whatever we say. I also defend the old latinized form.

Your view of Orthodoxy is as ridiculous as the view of the view of your church expressed by some of the more polemical orthodox posters here.

So far, can't prove it wrong.
Logged

"You always were a historically illiterate jerk, John." - OicwR doyen Stuart Koehl

High-church libertarian
Blog
xariskai
юродивый/yurodivy
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 1,440


יהוה עזי ומגני


« Reply #290 on: August 15, 2014, 09:42:06 PM »

The Orthodox are just minions of the state, and if the state isn't Orthodox, it is a minion of whoever is in charge, with a big dose of ethnocentrism mixed in. Not attractive in the modern world, but a good explanation why so many Orthodox have such a bad attitude about the Catholic Church and the Pope, reminders that the church isn't an ethnic club but is the company of the saints from all races and groups on earth.

Next time you're in Rome, why don't you try your arguments out at the Russicom (especially the ones about Latinized Greek Catholics and how Orthodoxy hates the west and needs a tsar or sultan as it is a minion of the state)  before you lunch with Popes Benedict and Francis. You probably won't get dessert though.

You really need to get out more.

Pal, I've been to the whole round of weekend services at St. Michael's Russian Catholic Church in New York City and love it. I always defend the unlatinized form of the rite; I remember you ragging on me for trying to be nice by describing it as "pure." Guess the great unwashed papists just are damned whatever we say. I also defend the old latinized form.

Your view of Orthodoxy is as ridiculous as the view of the view of your church expressed by some of the more polemical orthodox posters here.

So far, can't prove it wrong.
Bertrand Russell said no one could disprove his declaration that an invisible teapot is in orbit between Earth and Mars.

Similarly, many of your suggestions seem to lack visibility, reply to arguments, documentation, etc.  Invisible teapots.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 10:11:51 PM by xariskai » Logged

Silly Stars
primuspilus
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of North America - Western Rite Orthodox
Posts: 6,663


Inserting personal quote here.


WWW
« Reply #291 on: August 15, 2014, 09:42:56 PM »

Quote
but a good explanation why so many Orthodox have such a bad attitude about the Catholic Church and the Pope
A better explanation is that the Pope's claims are full of BS. It has been proven, you just dont like the evidence, so you choose to ignore it.

PP
Logged

"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker
xariskai
юродивый/yurodivy
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 1,440


יהוה עזי ומגני


« Reply #292 on: August 15, 2014, 09:45:03 PM »

Quote
but a good explanation why so many Orthodox have such a bad attitude about the Catholic Church and the Pope
A better explanation is that the Pope's claims are full of BS. It has been proven, you just dont like the evidence, so you choose to ignore it.

PP
Perhaps that is good rather than a bad attitude; it would be ethnocentric for youngfogey to deny seeing it as a good attitude is a culturally valid way of looking at it, and we know how much he hates ethnocentrism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnocentrism
« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 09:49:09 PM by xariskai » Logged

Silly Stars
podkarpatska
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ACROD
Posts: 8,945


Pokrov


WWW
« Reply #293 on: August 15, 2014, 09:45:44 PM »

The Orthodox are just minions of the state, and if the state isn't Orthodox, it is a minion of whoever is in charge, with a big dose of ethnocentrism mixed in. Not attractive in the modern world, but a good explanation why so many Orthodox have such a bad attitude about the Catholic Church and the Pope, reminders that the church isn't an ethnic club but is the company of the saints from all races and groups on earth.

Next time you're in Rome, why don't you try your arguments out at the Russicom (especially the ones about Latinized Greek Catholics and how Orthodoxy hates the west and needs a tsar or sultan as it is a minion of the state)  before you lunch with Popes Benedict and Francis. You probably won't get dessert though.

You really need to get out more.

Pal, I've been to the whole round of weekend services at St. Michael's Russian Catholic Church in New York City and love it. I always defend the unlatinized form of the rite; I remember you ragging on me for trying to be nice by describing it as "pure." Guess the great unwashed papists just are damned whatever we say. I also defend the old latinized form.

Your view of Orthodoxy is as ridiculous as the view of the view of your church expressed by some of the more polemical orthodox posters here.

So far, can't prove it wrong.

You've convinced yourself, but I suppose that's all that matters to you.

I'm glad that you represent a minority of one among the countless kind, honorable and charitable Roman and Latin Catholics I have been blessed to know.
Logged
primuspilus
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian Orthodox Archdiocese of North America - Western Rite Orthodox
Posts: 6,663


Inserting personal quote here.


WWW
« Reply #294 on: August 15, 2014, 09:45:54 PM »

Quote
but a good explanation why so many Orthodox have such a bad attitude about the Catholic Church and the Pope
A better explanation is that the Pope's claims are full of BS. It has been proven, you just dont like the evidence, so you choose to ignore it.

PP
Perhaps that is good rather than a bad attitude; it would be ethnocentric for youngfogey to deny it, and we know how much he hates ethnocentrism.
As all catholics do evidently....nobody better tell the Italians or the Irish.....

PP
Logged

"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker
The young fogey
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,814


I'm an alpaca, actually


WWW
« Reply #295 on: August 15, 2014, 09:50:42 PM »

The Orthodox are just minions of the state, and if the state isn't Orthodox, it is a minion of whoever is in charge, with a big dose of ethnocentrism mixed in. Not attractive in the modern world, but a good explanation why so many Orthodox have such a bad attitude about the Catholic Church and the Pope, reminders that the church isn't an ethnic club but is the company of the saints from all races and groups on earth.

Next time you're in Rome, why don't you try your arguments out at the Russicom (especially the ones about Latinized Greek Catholics and how Orthodoxy hates the west and needs a tsar or sultan as it is a minion of the state)  before you lunch with Popes Benedict and Francis. You probably won't get dessert though.

You really need to get out more.

Pal, I've been to the whole round of weekend services at St. Michael's Russian Catholic Church in New York City and love it. I always defend the unlatinized form of the rite; I remember you ragging on me for trying to be nice by describing it as "pure." Guess the great unwashed papists just are damned whatever we say. I also defend the old latinized form.

Your view of Orthodoxy is as ridiculous as the view of the view of your church expressed by some of the more polemical orthodox posters here.

So far, can't prove it wrong.

You've convinced yourself, but I suppose that's all that matters to you.

I'm glad that you represent a minority of one among the countless kind, honorable and charitable Roman and Latin Catholics I have been blessed to know.

No snark: what are they doing right in this department?
Logged

"You always were a historically illiterate jerk, John." - OicwR doyen Stuart Koehl

High-church libertarian
Blog
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Moderated
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 38,135



« Reply #296 on: August 15, 2014, 10:01:49 PM »

The Orthodox are just minions of the state, and if the state isn't Orthodox, it is a minion of whoever is in charge
Then we should have all welcomed those who submitted at Florence back with open arms, then, shouldn't we?

The Donation of Mussolini.

The Orthodox should have disappeared long ago from Transylvania, the Latin Hungarians and Austrians being in charge

didn't happen.

Didn't happen in Serbia either, although it should have in your universe.  Not through lack of trying.

Speaking of being minions of whoever is in charge.

The Orthodox should have been minions of the government of the First Republic of Poland,first daughter of the Vatican.  Instead, its last Great Sejm were in a desperate hurry to let the Orthodox organize the Church of Poland, which was increasing, not declining:
http://books.google.com/books?id=TlQQdbfi_v0C&pg=PA307&dq=%22the+sejm+to+establish+an+Orthodox+hierarchy,+Coercion+was+useless%22&hl=en&sa=X&ei=vbfuU4a_J9WsyATPmICQBg&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=%22the%20sejm%20to%20establish%20an%20Orthodox%20hierarchy%2C%20Coercion%20was%20useless%22&f=false

Orthodoxy should not have returned at all in West Ukraine
Language                 Total            Roman Catholics Greek Catholics  Eastern Orthodox Evangelical(Luthern) Other Christian Jewish   Other
Polish                      21,993,000   20,333,000         487,000            497,000              219,000                   55,000            372,000 30,000
Ukrainian/Belarusian  6,278,000        107,000      2,845,000         3,239,000                  9,000                   73,000                1,000  4,000
Lithuanian                     83,000          83,000             -                      -                         -                            -                       -          -
Czech                           38,000            8,000             -                    22,000                 6,000                      1,000                 -          -
German                       741,000       118,000              -                                           599,000                     16,000               7,000    1,000
Yiddish                      2,732,000          -                     -                      -                        -                             -                2,731,000   1,000
Other                            50,000        20,000              4,000               4,000                 2,000                                              3,000  17,000
Total                      31,915,000  20,670,000       3,336,000         3,762,000              835,000                   145,000         3,114,000 53,000
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Poland

Odd, given the bond between the original Grand Duchy of Lithuania and the Rus' that no Orthodox or GC Lithuanians are recorded, but almost half a million Poles each are (the numbers were actually higher-the 1931 is admitted to have counted down minorities of all sorts.  Which, of course is why the Second Polish Republic ended up like the First Polish Republic-in oblivion).
And yet it did, if it ever left.

Nor should the region, Bucovina, of the New Metropolitan (and hopefully soon Patriarch) of Kiev, have been the near exclusive Orthodox land it was-being under the Habsburgs, minions of the Vatican.


Nor should have the Czechslovak Orthodox Church come back into existence.

after the minions of the Vatican suppressed the rites of Orthodoxy.  St. Gorazd the Neo-Martyr, pray for us!

with a big dose of ethnocentrism mixed in.

Rather rich, given your ecclesiastical community tries to pass off Nestorianism, Miaphysitism and Orthodoxy as "ethnic differences," and insisted that any Orthodox who succumbs to the Vatican's lure must be enrolled in its "sui juris" originating in a schism from their Mother Church, until very recently its Latin cardinals outranked its purported patriarchs in their own "patriarchates," and the code of canon law for its Eastern ecclesiastical communities was issued in Latin.

And then those three (used to be four) patriarchs the Vatican appoints for Antioch, based on ethnicity.

Not attractive in the modern world

The modern world can have what it finds attractive.

but a good explanation why so many Orthodox have such a bad attitude about the Catholic Church

now that would be self-hating.
and the Pope
we love the Pope.

Many Years Pope Theodore II!

reminders that the church isn't an ethnic club but is the company of the saints from all races and groups on earth.
Ah! Frustrated Ultramontanism! what happens when your infallible supreme pontiff upon whom you pin all your hopes, ex cathedra puts his imprimatur on all you find repugnant!.  Leads to fits of irrational rage and projection on the Orthodox, especially after the failed attempt to bring your Vatican rules to your Orthodox monastery (to paraphrase the great Russian people) to get away from your NO mass.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 10:05:59 PM by ialmisry » Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Moderated
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 38,135



« Reply #297 on: August 15, 2014, 10:07:20 PM »

The Orthodox are just minions of the state, and if the state isn't Orthodox, it is a minion of whoever is in charge, with a big dose of ethnocentrism mixed in. Not attractive in the modern world, but a good explanation why so many Orthodox have such a bad attitude about the Catholic Church and the Pope, reminders that the church isn't an ethnic club but is the company of the saints from all races and groups on earth.

Next time you're in Rome, why don't you try your arguments out at the Russicom (especially the ones about Latinized Greek Catholics and how Orthodoxy hates the west and needs a tsar or sultan as it is a minion of the state)  before you lunch with Popes Benedict and Francis. You probably won't get dessert though.

You really need to get out more.

Pal, I've been to the whole round of weekend services at St. Michael's Russian Catholic Church in New York City and love it.
too bad the Russians evidently don't.

Your view of Orthodoxy is as ridiculous as the view of the view of your church expressed by some of the more polemical orthodox posters here.

So far, can't prove it wrong.
Of course Orthodoxy can't be proved wrong.  More importantly, it can be proved right. Hence Ortho- in Orthodoxy.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 10:09:45 PM by ialmisry » Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
The young fogey
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,814


I'm an alpaca, actually


WWW
« Reply #298 on: August 15, 2014, 10:09:08 PM »

"Catholic = Nazi." Is that the best you can do?

I expect this garbage from secular liberals, not from brother apostolic Christians who like me have a traditional liturgy. That plus the anti-Westernism are why Orthodoxy is such a letdown.

You all will fall into line with an Obama or someone worse.

You're as useless as the Episcopalians despite having bishops and the Mass, which makes it worse.

The only American Christians taking the hits in the culture wars and fighting back are the Catholics who obey Rome and the evangelicals.

You're just opting out for more dhimmitude or obeying Comrade First Secretary Obama. Guess it comes naturally.

Gorazd was a Modernist. You can have him.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 10:11:51 PM by The young fogey » Logged

"You always were a historically illiterate jerk, John." - OicwR doyen Stuart Koehl

High-church libertarian
Blog
minasoliman
Mr., Sir, Dude, Guy, Male, tr. Minas in Greek, Menes in white people Egyptologists :-P
Section Moderator
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic Orthodox Archdiocese of North America
Posts: 12,957


Strengthen O Lord the work of Your hands(Is 19:25)


« Reply #299 on: August 15, 2014, 10:13:49 PM »

"Catholic = Nazi." Is that the best you can do?

Is it any better than "Orthodox=satrap" or "Muslim=Pre-Nicene Orthodox"?  Stupid arguments deserve stupid responses.
Logged

Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Stratopedarches
*****
Online Online

Posts: 18,689


"And you shall call his name Jesus..."


WWW
« Reply #300 on: August 15, 2014, 10:13:59 PM »

The Orthodox are just minions of the state, and if the state isn't Orthodox, it is a minion of whoever is in charge, with a big dose of ethnocentrism mixed in. Not attractive in the modern world, but a good explanation why so many Orthodox have such a bad attitude about the Catholic Church and the Pope, reminders that the church isn't an ethnic club but is the company of the saints from all races and groups on earth.

How soon we forget.  Invoked as recently as 1903.
Logged

The Mor has spoken. Let his word endure unto the ages of ages.

Please, James, tell us more about women!
The young fogey
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,814


I'm an alpaca, actually


WWW
« Reply #301 on: August 15, 2014, 10:15:59 PM »

You can have your ethnic clubs. I'll take the Eastern rites without the schism.
Logged

"You always were a historically illiterate jerk, John." - OicwR doyen Stuart Koehl

High-church libertarian
Blog
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Stratopedarches
*****
Online Online

Posts: 18,689


"And you shall call his name Jesus..."


WWW
« Reply #302 on: August 15, 2014, 10:16:08 PM »

Fr. Bob Taft is a jerk.

So you and I are in good company.
Logged

The Mor has spoken. Let his word endure unto the ages of ages.

Please, James, tell us more about women!
xariskai
юродивый/yurodivy
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 1,440


יהוה עזי ומגני


« Reply #303 on: August 15, 2014, 10:19:03 PM »

You can have your ethnic clubs.

...the church isn't an ethnic club
Ethno-phyletism has been officially pronounced a heresy by the Orthodox Church.
http://orthodoxwiki.org/Phyletism

Perhaps you are becoming Orthodox yourself and do not yet fully realize it -you are agreeing with us on this one point after all, although to your discredit you do continue to charge the Orthodox Church with holding to precisely what we officially deny and pronounce heretical (Phyletism).
« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 10:24:40 PM by xariskai » Logged

Silly Stars
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Moderated
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 38,135



« Reply #304 on: August 15, 2014, 10:24:32 PM »

"Catholic = Nazi." Is that the best you can do?
No, Catholic=Orthodox. Do pay attention, and keep up.
I expect this garbage from secular liberals, not from brother apostolic Christians who like me have a traditional liturgy. That plus the anti-Westernism are why Orthodoxy is such a letdown.
Only to you frustrated Ultramontanists trying to leech off the Orthodox liturgy became the NO mass your supreme pontiff feeds his sheep leaves you hungry.
You all will fall into line with an Obama or someone worse.
You mean, like your coreligionists Biden and Pelosi?
You're as useless as the Episcopalians despite having bishops and the Mass, which makes it worse.
Your past, not ours.
The only American Christians taking the hits in the culture wars and fighting back are the Catholics who obey Rome and the evangelicals.
how ethnocentric of you.


You're just opting out for more dhimmitude or obeying Comrade First Secretary Obama. Guess it comes naturally.
your nonsensical ranting.  I guess so.
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Moderated
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 38,135



« Reply #305 on: August 15, 2014, 10:28:40 PM »

You can have your ethnic clubs. I'll take the Eastern rites without the schism.
but you are promoting eastern rites with schism.  Do make up your mind

Speaking of Ethnic clubs.
http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/orientchurch/
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
Sam G
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christianity
Jurisdiction: ROCOR (Old Rite)
Posts: 620


All ye Saints, pray to God for me a sinner.


« Reply #306 on: August 15, 2014, 10:29:37 PM »

"Catholic = Nazi." Is that the best you can do?

I expect this garbage from secular liberals, not from brother apostolic Christians who like me have a traditional liturgy. That plus the anti-Westernism are why Orthodoxy is such a letdown.

"Orthodox = Servant of the state." is that best you can do?

That and your insistence that Orthodox Christians are a bunch of rabid entho-centrists who should pack up our bags and go home is why you are such a let down.

You all will fall into line with an Obama or someone worse.

You're as useless as the Episcopalians despite having bishops and the Mass, which makes it worse.

The only American Christians taking the hits in the culture wars and fighting back are the Catholics who obey Rome and the evangelicals.

You're just opting out for more dhimmitude or obeying Comrade First Secretary Obama. Guess it comes naturally.

Cry martyrdom why don't ya? Notice how you had to add "who obey Rome" to your description of Catholics who are oh so bravely "taking the hits".

Quote
Those that call themselves Catholic:
77% believe it is not necessary to attend Sunday Mass

65% believe Divorce and Remarriage is acceptable

53% believe abortion is acceptable

74% believe artificial birth control is acceptable

66% believe the Eucharist is only symbolic and not the Body and Blood of Christ.

http://catholicmoraltruth.com/churchstatistics.htm

It seems like nearly three fourths of your own flock has already fallen in line with "Comrade First Secretary Obama" never mind the scores of dissent among bishops and theologians.



Logged

All of my hope, I place in thee, O Mother of God; do preserve me under they shelter.
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Moderated
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 38,135



« Reply #307 on: August 15, 2014, 10:30:12 PM »

The Orthodox are just minions of the state, and if the state isn't Orthodox, it is a minion of whoever is in charge, with a big dose of ethnocentrism mixed in. Not attractive in the modern world, but a good explanation why so many Orthodox have such a bad attitude about the Catholic Church and the Pope, reminders that the church isn't an ethnic club but is the company of the saints from all races and groups on earth.

How soon we forget.  Invoked as recently as 1903.
Shhhh! We're not supposed to remember such things.

Quote
The Second Council of Lyon was the fourteenth ecumenical council of the Catholic Church, convoked on 31 March 1272 and convened in Lyon, France, in 1272–1274. Pope Gregory X presided over the council, called to act on a pledge by Byzantine emperor Michael VIII to reunite the Eastern church with the West....Among others who attended the council were James I of Aragon, the ambassador of the Emperor Michael VIII Palaiologos with members of the Greek clergy and the ambassadors of Abaqa Khan of the Ilkhanate. Thomas Aquinas had been summoned to the council, but died en route at Frosinone. Bonaventure was present at the first four sessions, but died at Lyon on 15 July.  In addition to Aragon, which James represented in person, representatives of the kings of Germany, England, Scotland, France, the Spains and Sicily were present, with procurators also representing the kingdoms of Norway, Sweden, Hungary, Bohemia, the "realm of Dacia" and the duchy of Poland. In the procedures to be observed in the council, for the first time the nations appeared as represented elements in an ecclesiastical council
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Council_of_Lyon
Quote
The Council of Constance is the 15th century ecumenical council recognized by the Roman Catholic Church, held from 1414 to 1418. The council ended the Three-Popes Controversy, by deposing or accepting the resignation of the remaining Papal claimants and electing Pope Martin V....The council's main purpose was to end the Papal schism which had resulted from the confusion following the Avignon Papacy. Pope Gregory XI's return to Rome in 1377, followed by his death and the controversial election of his successor, Pope Urban VI, resulted in the defection of a number of cardinals and the election of a rival pope based at Avignon in 1378. After thirty years of schism, the Council of Pisa had sought to resolve the situation by deposing the two claimant popes and elected a new pope, Alexander V. The council claimed that in such a situation, a council of bishops had greater authority than just one bishop, even if he were the bishop of Rome. Though Alexander and his successor, John XXIII, gained widespread support, especially at the cost of the Avignon pope, the schism remained, now involving not two but three claimants: Gregory XII at Rome, Benedict XIII at Avignon and John XXIII.

Therefore, many voices, including Sigismund, King of Germany and Hungary (and later Holy Roman Emperor) pressed for another council to resolve the issue. That council was called by John XXIII and was held from 16 November 1414 to 22 April 1418 in Constance, Germany. According to Joseph McCabe, the council was attended by roughly 29 cardinals, 100 "learned doctors of law and divinity," 134 abbots, and 183 bishops and archbishops. An innovation at the Council was that instead of voting as individuals, the bishops voted in national blocks, explicitly confirming the national pressures that had fueled the schism since 1378.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Constance

Map of minions.

keep a scorecard.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 10:48:01 PM by ialmisry » Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
Sam G
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christianity
Jurisdiction: ROCOR (Old Rite)
Posts: 620


All ye Saints, pray to God for me a sinner.


« Reply #308 on: August 15, 2014, 10:31:54 PM »

You can have your ethnic clubs. I'll take the Eastern rites without the schism.

Personally I prefer turkey clubs, but it's a fasting season.
Logged

All of my hope, I place in thee, O Mother of God; do preserve me under they shelter.
podkarpatska
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ACROD
Posts: 8,945


Pokrov


WWW
« Reply #309 on: August 15, 2014, 10:40:38 PM »

"Catholic = Nazi." Is that the best you can do?

Is it any better than "Orthodox=satrap" or "Muslim=Pre-Nicene Orthodox"?  Stupid arguments deserve stupid responses.

Axios!  and Amen!
Logged
The young fogey
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,814


I'm an alpaca, actually


WWW
« Reply #310 on: August 15, 2014, 10:41:53 PM »

Cry martyrdom why don't ya? Notice how you had to add "who obey Rome" to your description of Catholics who are oh so bravely "taking the hits".

Quote
Those that call themselves Catholic:
77% believe it is not necessary to attend Sunday Mass

65% believe Divorce and Remarriage is acceptable

53% believe abortion is acceptable

74% believe artificial birth control is acceptable

66% believe the Eucharist is only symbolic and not the Body and Blood of Christ.

http://catholicmoraltruth.com/churchstatistics.htm

It seems like nearly three fourths of your own flock has already fallen in line with "Comrade First Secretary Obama" never mind the scores of dissent among bishops and theologians.

"Survey Says," another swipe at Rome right out of the American liberal playbook.

You might as well put an "The Episcopal Church Welcomes You" sign in front of your church.
Logged

"You always were a historically illiterate jerk, John." - OicwR doyen Stuart Koehl

High-church libertarian
Blog
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Moderated
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 38,135



« Reply #311 on: August 15, 2014, 10:48:47 PM »

Cry martyrdom why don't ya? Notice how you had to add "who obey Rome" to your description of Catholics who are oh so bravely "taking the hits".

Quote
Those that call themselves Catholic:
77% believe it is not necessary to attend Sunday Mass

65% believe Divorce and Remarriage is acceptable

53% believe abortion is acceptable

74% believe artificial birth control is acceptable

66% believe the Eucharist is only symbolic and not the Body and Blood of Christ.

http://catholicmoraltruth.com/churchstatistics.htm

It seems like nearly three fourths of your own flock has already fallen in line with "Comrade First Secretary Obama" never mind the scores of dissent among bishops and theologians.

"Survey Says," another swipe at Rome right out of the American liberal playbook.

You might as well put an "The Episcopal Church Welcomes You" sign in front of your church.
Too ethnic.

They got you again Phoney.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 10:51:11 PM by ialmisry » Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
Sam G
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christianity
Jurisdiction: ROCOR (Old Rite)
Posts: 620


All ye Saints, pray to God for me a sinner.


« Reply #312 on: August 15, 2014, 10:50:11 PM »

Cry martyrdom why don't ya? Notice how you had to add "who obey Rome" to your description of Catholics who are oh so bravely "taking the hits".

Quote
Those that call themselves Catholic:
77% believe it is not necessary to attend Sunday Mass

65% believe Divorce and Remarriage is acceptable

53% believe abortion is acceptable

74% believe artificial birth control is acceptable

66% believe the Eucharist is only symbolic and not the Body and Blood of Christ.

http://catholicmoraltruth.com/churchstatistics.htm

It seems like nearly three fourths of your own flock has already fallen in line with "Comrade First Secretary Obama" never mind the scores of dissent among bishops and theologians.

"Survey Says," another swipe at Rome right out of the American liberal playbook.

You might as well put an "The Episcopal Church Welcomes You" sign in front of your most catholic churches.

There, I fixed that for you.

But seriously, how does this constitute a liberal attack on the Catholic Church? If anything, sedevacatists are more likely to roll out these statistics when discussing the after effects of Vatican II.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 10:50:50 PM by Sam G » Logged

All of my hope, I place in thee, O Mother of God; do preserve me under they shelter.
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Moderated
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 38,135



« Reply #313 on: August 15, 2014, 10:52:20 PM »

Cry martyrdom why don't ya? Notice how you had to add "who obey Rome" to your description of Catholics who are oh so bravely "taking the hits".

Quote
Those that call themselves Catholic:
77% believe it is not necessary to attend Sunday Mass

65% believe Divorce and Remarriage is acceptable

53% believe abortion is acceptable

74% believe artificial birth control is acceptable

66% believe the Eucharist is only symbolic and not the Body and Blood of Christ.

http://catholicmoraltruth.com/churchstatistics.htm

It seems like nearly three fourths of your own flock has already fallen in line with "Comrade First Secretary Obama" never mind the scores of dissent among bishops and theologians.

"Survey Says," another swipe at Rome right out of the American liberal playbook.

You might as well put an "The Episcopal Church Welcomes You" sign in front of your most catholic churches.

There, I fixed that for you.

But seriously, how does this constitute a liberal attack on the Catholic Church? If anything, sedevacatists are more likely to roll out these statistics when discussing the after effects of Vatican II.
as a failed sedevacatist, that cuts too close for Phoney.
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
minasoliman
Mr., Sir, Dude, Guy, Male, tr. Minas in Greek, Menes in white people Egyptologists :-P
Section Moderator
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic Orthodox Archdiocese of North America
Posts: 12,957


Strengthen O Lord the work of Your hands(Is 19:25)


« Reply #314 on: August 15, 2014, 10:53:24 PM »

I locked the topic until username! comes to deal with this, as it is getting political.

Mina
« Last Edit: August 15, 2014, 10:57:20 PM by minasoliman » Logged

Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.
Tags:
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.188 seconds with 72 queries.