OrthodoxChristianity.net
November 27, 2014, 10:46:03 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Catholic to Orthodox converts status in eyes of Catholic Church?  (Read 1147 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
ShayneSwenson
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Almost Orthodox.
Jurisdiction: Catholic
Posts: 56


Sedevacan't stand schism


WWW
« on: July 26, 2014, 04:18:05 PM »

Sorry for machine-gunning a bunch of new topics, but I have more questions than people to ask them to. If I were to convert to Eastern Orthodox christianity from the Roman Catholic church, would I be considered damned, or how does the church officially view catholic-orthodox converts?
Logged
biro
Excelsior
Site Supporter
Warned
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox
Posts: 14,440


fleem
WWW
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2014, 05:57:28 PM »

I don't think you'd be damned. They believe it is acceptable for Orthodox to take Communion in Roman Catholic churches (although the Orthodox do not give Communion to the Roman or Eastern Catholics).
Logged

Charlie Rose: "If you could change one thing about the world, what would it be?"

Fran Lebowitz: "Everything. There is not one thing with which I am satisified."

spcasuncoast.org
Ekdikos
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Church of Serbia - Diocese of Banja Luka
Posts: 397



« Reply #2 on: July 26, 2014, 06:17:27 PM »

You would be considered Schismatic. I dont know what is their latest interpretation, but I dont know, they would consider you straight as future resident of Hades.
Logged

truthseeker32
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: GOAA- Denver
Posts: 384



« Reply #3 on: July 26, 2014, 06:42:48 PM »

You will encounter a number of opinions among the laity, but officially you would be a schismatic from the Roman Catholic perspective as you are breaking communion with the Bishop of Rome. Like Orthodoxy, however, Roman Catholic theology would not necessarily say you are damned.
Logged
Tom
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 44



« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2014, 06:47:13 PM »

Sorry for machine-gunning a bunch of new topics, but I have more questions than people to ask them to. If I were to convert to Eastern Orthodox christianity from the Roman Catholic church, would I be considered damned, or how does the church officially view catholic-orthodox converts?

I converted to Orthodoxy (Antiochian) from Roman Catholicism twenty years ago.  I don't know if the Roman Catholic church would consider you damned or not, but the Orthodox Church would welcome you home.  I have never felt damned.
Logged
Papist
Patriarch of Pontification
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Byzantine
Posts: 12,365


Praying for the Christians in Iraq


« Reply #5 on: July 26, 2014, 07:11:19 PM »

Sorry for machine-gunning a bunch of new topics, but I have more questions than people to ask them to. If I were to convert to Eastern Orthodox christianity from the Roman Catholic church, would I be considered damned, or how does the church officially view catholic-orthodox converts?

Well, first and foremost, we would continue to consider you a fellow Christian and a member of God's family. Yet, past that, the matter becomes very blurry. Objectively, you would be considered a schismatic through the Church's eyes, though whether or not you would be considered a formal schismatic would be another issue altogether. A formal schismatic would be one who leaves the Catholic Church knowing full well that the this Church is Christ's bride and the universal arc of salvation. A material schismatic, on the other hand, would be one who leaves the Church but does not know that the Church is truly Christ's body. A person entering into formal schism would, from the Catholic point of view, be committing a very serious sin and placing his or her soul in serious jeopardy. The person entering into material schism, on the other hand, might still be saved by God's grace, given the person's ignorance on the matter. Wherever you would fall on the spectrum between formal and material schism would be a matter between you and God, since no man can judge the state of another's soul.

All that being said, the subjective dimension of this certainly makes for a messier understanding of where you would stand. Personally, I think the issues that divide the Catholic and Orthodox Churches are profoundly difficult for the individual to untangle, and while I firmly believe that the Catholic Church is Christ's true Church, I can also understand why someone might interpret the data differently. Since God is merciful, I pray and have hope that there is salvation for those on both sides of the divide, even those who switch sides.

I believe that many Orthodox Christians would give a similar answer if the tables were turned.

That being said, let us pray that God one day brings an end to this terrible schism, and that the side who is right is gracious and merciful, and that the side that is wrong is humble and penitent. 
« Last Edit: July 26, 2014, 07:14:18 PM by Papist » Logged

You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.
Ekdikos
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Church of Serbia - Diocese of Banja Luka
Posts: 397



« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2014, 07:18:41 PM »

Roman Catholic allready teach we can be saved as Orthodox. We do not reciprate, though... There are Theologians who claim so, but Church did not issue doctrinal standing.
Logged

Georgii
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ROCOR, German Diocese
Posts: 295


Holy Martyr Afra, pray to God for us!


« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2014, 07:22:18 PM »

let us pray that God one day brings an end to this terrible schism, and that the side who is right is gracious and merciful, and that the side that is wrong is humble and penitent. 

Let us pray that we are all humble and penitent.
Logged

my garment accuses me, for it is not a wedding garment
Papist
Patriarch of Pontification
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Byzantine
Posts: 12,365


Praying for the Christians in Iraq


« Reply #8 on: July 26, 2014, 07:42:06 PM »

let us pray that God one day brings an end to this terrible schism, and that the side who is right is gracious and merciful, and that the side that is wrong is humble and penitent. 

Let us pray that we are all humble and penitent.
Wisdom
Logged

You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.
TheMathematician
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: American
Posts: 1,550


Formerly known as Montalo


« Reply #9 on: July 26, 2014, 09:57:37 PM »

Sorry for machine-gunning a bunch of new topics, but I have more questions than people to ask them to. If I were to convert to Eastern Orthodox christianity from the Roman Catholic church, would I be considered damned, or how does the church officially view catholic-orthodox converts?

Well, first and foremost, we would continue to consider you a fellow Christian and a member of God's family. Yet, past that, the matter becomes very blurry. Objectively, you would be considered a schismatic through the Church's eyes, though whether or not you would be considered a formal schismatic would be another issue altogether. A formal schismatic would be one who leaves the Catholic Church knowing full well that the this Church is Christ's bride and the universal arc of salvation. A material schismatic, on the other hand, would be one who leaves the Church but does not know that the Church is truly Christ's body. A person entering into formal schism would, from the Catholic point of view, be committing a very serious sin and placing his or her soul in serious jeopardy. The person entering into material schism, on the other hand, might still be saved by God's grace, given the person's ignorance on the matter. Wherever you would fall on the spectrum between formal and material schism would be a matter between you and God, since no man can judge the state of another's soul.

All that being said, the subjective dimension of this certainly makes for a messier understanding of where you would stand. Personally, I think the issues that divide the Catholic and Orthodox Churches are profoundly difficult for the individual to untangle, and while I firmly believe that the Catholic Church is Christ's true Church, I can also understand why someone might interpret the data differently. Since God is merciful, I pray and have hope that there is salvation for those on both sides of the divide, even those who switch sides.

I believe that many Orthodox Christians would give a similar answer if the tables were turned.

That being said, let us pray that God one day brings an end to this terrible schism, and that the side who is right is gracious and merciful, and that the side that is wrong is humble and penitent. 

Lots of big and complicated sentences, but the part in bold is 100% right

That said, i would thing, as the Romans accept all our sacraments, that we(As former Catholics now Orthodox, like myself) would be fine from confession until the next Sunday. Confession would absolve the sin of schism and we would be in mortal sin for missing ROman Mass/Liturgy on Sunday
Logged
kelly
UNSUBSCRIBED from the world
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Genuine Kellenic Truest Orthodox Traditionalist Church *of* America
Posts: 1,772


Proverbs 31:13


« Reply #10 on: July 26, 2014, 10:16:09 PM »

When I was going through the conversion process, I sometimes worried about the Catholic perception... then I realized that if Orthodoxy is the true faith, and I believe with all my heart that it is, then what Catholics think of my conversion doesn't matter one bit.
Logged

kelly and I spend all our free time collecting pictures of Russian monarchs.  Its a thing we do.
ShayneSwenson
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Almost Orthodox.
Jurisdiction: Catholic
Posts: 56


Sedevacan't stand schism


WWW
« Reply #11 on: July 26, 2014, 11:25:32 PM »

Yeah, Im just not quite historically convinced the Orthodox are correct at this point. If I'm being honest, my motivations to look East are largely emotional, and personal, and I know that is never a good state of reasoning to make such a serious choice. Mormons are super-duper nice and welcoming, but that doesnt mean they have the truth. However, I have found a much more welcoming community from the Orthodox side, and the priests and lay people I have met are way more committed to actually following Christ than just claiming a social identifier, though I know in name only folks exist on both sides. Luckily I am finding very convincing evidence to support the east now, as before I thought history and common sense was on the side of the Latin church. Those sneaky celebrity catholic apologists really have some convincing arguments if you are a history ignorant protestant such as I was.
Logged
scamandrius
Crusher of Secrets; House Lannister
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: I'm Greek and proud of it, damn it!
Posts: 6,247



« Reply #12 on: July 26, 2014, 11:49:38 PM »

Sorry for machine-gunning a bunch of new topics, but I have more questions than people to ask them to. If I were to convert to Eastern Orthodox christianity from the Roman Catholic church, would I be considered damned, or how does the church officially view catholic-orthodox converts?

Why would you care?  You would be, I'm assuming here, converting because of the fullness of the faith that the Orthodox Church believes and practices which you desire to possess, not because of how those outside the Church view the Orthodox.  So, lets assume that the Catholics would consider you one if the damned in Gehenna for forsaking Rome.  Would you still convert?  Why concern yourself?
Logged

I seek the truth by which no man was ever harmed--Marcus Aurelius

Those who do not read  history are doomed to get their facts from Hollywood--Anonymous

What earthly joy remains untouched by grief?--St. John Damascene
Laurentius
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Yes a little
Jurisdiction: Serbian
Posts: 100


Look at the birds of the air... (Mt 6:26)


« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2014, 12:01:34 PM »

Sorry for machine-gunning a bunch of new topics, but I have more questions than people to ask them to. If I were to convert to Eastern Orthodox christianity from the Roman Catholic church, would I be considered damned, or how does the church officially view catholic-orthodox converts?

Why would you care?  You would be, I'm assuming here, converting because of the fullness of the faith that the Orthodox Church believes and practices which you desire to possess, not because of how those outside the Church view the Orthodox.  So, lets assume that the Catholics would consider you one if the damned in Gehenna for forsaking Rome.  Would you still convert?  Why concern yourself?

Maybe he wants to take a leap of faith. Things you have been could still haunt him though. For me, knowing that I am damned in the eyes of the Latins, is still hard even though I do not believe in Catholicism anymore. What you have been taught nags you somehow.

Logged

Holy Mother of God, save us!
Sam G
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christianity
Jurisdiction: ROCOR (Old Rite)
Posts: 620


All ye Saints, pray to God for me a sinner.


« Reply #14 on: July 31, 2014, 12:05:37 PM »

I was told by my priest (RC) that I'd be putting my salvation at risk.
Logged

All of my hope, I place in thee, O Mother of God; do preserve me under they shelter.
scamandrius
Crusher of Secrets; House Lannister
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: I'm Greek and proud of it, damn it!
Posts: 6,247



« Reply #15 on: July 31, 2014, 02:10:49 PM »

I was told by my priest (RC) that I'd be putting my salvation at risk.

That's surprising coming from an RC priest who are told that Orthodox mysteries (sacraments) are all valid.  Still, why would/should  anyone care about whether the adherents of the church you come from support your decision or not?
Logged

I seek the truth by which no man was ever harmed--Marcus Aurelius

Those who do not read  history are doomed to get their facts from Hollywood--Anonymous

What earthly joy remains untouched by grief?--St. John Damascene
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 18,378


"Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee..."


WWW
« Reply #16 on: July 31, 2014, 02:34:25 PM »

I was told by my priest (RC) that I'd be putting my salvation at risk.

That's surprising coming from an RC priest who are told that Orthodox mysteries (sacraments) are all valid.

Not really.  They would probably say that leaving (what they believe to be) the true Church is a serious sin, and being unrepentant about that sin only compounds it.  Receiving sacraments in that condition only adds sin to sin.  In this respect, it's really no different from what the Orthodox would say with the one exception of the question of sacramental validity.

Quote
Still, why would/should  anyone care about whether the adherents of the church you come from support your decision or not?

True.  But I think RC's are susceptible to this in a way that Protestants are not. 

Logged

The Mor has spoken. Let his word endure unto the ages of ages.
Adela
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Posts: 820



« Reply #17 on: July 31, 2014, 03:12:10 PM »

When I was going through the conversion process, I sometimes worried about the Catholic perception... then I realized that if Orthodoxy is the true faith, and I believe with all my heart that it is, then what Catholics think of my conversion doesn't matter one bit.

I agree completely.  I am so much happier as an Orthodox.  I feel like I came out if the closet.  I don't have to try to find where I fit in with overly scrupulous traditionalists or with the New Mass Catholics who are a little shaky on theology.  I can just go to Liturgy and soak in the Wisdom.

  I did lose a friendship with a devout Catholic who feels I have damned my soul to Hell.  I can't talk about my experience with Orthodoxy because she is so uncomfortable with it.  One one hand I don't want to make her uncomfortable but it is stifling in a friendship to not be able to talk about something so important to me.
Logged
Alpo
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Jerkodox
Posts: 6,951



« Reply #18 on: July 31, 2014, 03:23:55 PM »

I was told by my priest (RC) that I'd be putting my salvation at risk.

If they want to be anyhow honest and traditional, this is the only correct answer.
Logged

Papist
Patriarch of Pontification
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Byzantine
Posts: 12,365


Praying for the Christians in Iraq


« Reply #19 on: July 31, 2014, 05:41:29 PM »

I was told by my priest (RC) that I'd be putting my salvation at risk.

If they want to be anyhow honest and traditional, this is the only correct answer.

Yes, this would be a correct response from a Catholic perspective.
Logged

You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.
Peter J
Formerly PJ
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Melkite
Posts: 6,170



« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2014, 10:41:06 PM »

Sorry for machine-gunning a bunch of new topics, but I have more questions than people to ask them to. If I were to convert to Eastern Orthodox christianity from the Roman Catholic church, would I be considered damned, or how does the church officially view catholic-orthodox converts?

Not an easy question. I always say that if I were Orthodox I wouldn't go Catholic, but as a Catholic I don't have any plans to go Orthodox.

But, having said that, let me add that I think we are pretty sympathetic even toward Christians who have "schismed" (note that I don't say "apostacized") from the Roman Communion.
Logged

- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)
VarangianGuard
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 82


« Reply #21 on: August 27, 2014, 07:55:52 AM »

The  RC church before Vatican II  would immediately say that one is a schismatic and also a heretic. One has separated oneself from the true church due to believing something which differs from what this true church teaches, in spite of being taught this correct doctrine previously. There is no salvation outside this true church, thus salvation is at least jeopardized, if not impossible.

Since the doctrine(s) has been changed (which is, of course, my own reason for no longer being Catholic), the post-VII church now says something different and VII officially teaches something else.
Tell that to all those millions who have suffered from the consequences of the original teaching. JPII started apologizing for absolutely everything. Why not apologize to the millions of Catholics up through history who were told and taught what is today false doctrines?

Logged
Shlomlokh
主哀れめよ!
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Bulgarian
Posts: 1,299



« Reply #22 on: August 27, 2014, 08:08:56 AM »

The  RC church before Vatican II  would immediately say that one is a schismatic and also a heretic. One has separated oneself from the true church due to believing something which differs from what this true church teaches, in spite of being taught this correct doctrine previously. There is no salvation outside this true church, thus salvation is at least jeopardized, if not impossible.

Since the doctrine(s) has been changed (which is, of course, my own reason for no longer being Catholic), the post-VII church now says something different and VII officially teaches something else.
Tell that to all those millions who have suffered from the consequences of the original teaching. JPII started apologizing for absolutely everything. Why not apologize to the millions of Catholics up through history who were told and taught what is today false doctrines?



The thing I still don't understand is why Latins (clergy especially) get bent out of shape when one of their own becomes Orthodox. They view us to be grace-filled but "deficient." If everyone who is "Christian" is somehow "mystically, but imperfectly united to the Church" what's the point of being in communion with Rome? Spurious claims of Unam Sanctam not withstanding.

In Christ,
Andrew
Logged

"I will pour out my prayer unto the Lord, and to Him will I proclaim my grief; for with evils my soul is filled, and my life unto hades hath drawn nigh, and like Jonah I will pray: From corruption raise me up, O God." -Ode VI, Irmos of the Supplicatory Canon to the Theotokos
VarangianGuard
Member
***
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 82


« Reply #23 on: August 27, 2014, 08:26:21 AM »

I agree. It really doesn't make any sense.
However, not all Latin clerics will bend out of shape upon hearing about it. Only the more Conservative ones will to varying degrees, but on the dubious VII grounds of "deficiency" etc, whatever that really means.
A real Traditional one would say what I said in my former post.
Logged
Alveus Lacuna
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 6,951



« Reply #24 on: August 27, 2014, 09:43:16 AM »

I was told by my priest (RC) that I'd be putting my salvation at risk.

Aren't you putting your soul at risk every time you commit a mortal sin? How that a real threat?
Logged
Peter J
Formerly PJ
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Melkite
Posts: 6,170



« Reply #25 on: August 27, 2014, 09:03:39 PM »

The thing I still don't understand is why Latins (clergy especially) get bent out of shape when one of their own becomes Orthodox.

Fair enough I suppose: I can't understand how you can not be bothered when one of your own becomes Catholic (ICWR).
Logged

- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)
Maria
Orthodox Christian
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,401


O most Holy Theotokos, save us.


« Reply #26 on: August 27, 2014, 09:07:19 PM »

I was told by my priest (RC) that I'd be putting my salvation at risk.

I was also told by my Catholic Confessor that my salvation was at risk because I was leaving the Catholic Church.
However, when I was received into the Greek Orthodox Church, the Orthodox Priest told me that I was fully entering into the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, The Holy Orthodox Church.
Logged

Glory to Jesus Christ!
Glory to Him forever!
dzheremi
No longer posting here.
Warned
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic
Posts: 4,383


« Reply #27 on: August 27, 2014, 11:03:55 PM »

I've heard some noise from my ex-coreligionists (er...co-churchists...whatever) regarding how my conversion apparently is "a source of scandal" and a "wound to my soul" and the like...can't say it has caused me to lose even a second of sleep or tranquility, but hey, if that's how some people feel who am I to tell them anything beyond "I'm sorry you feel that way, but you are wrong"?

But I can understand where this feeling comes from, on the part of converts. Those who have never been Roman Catholic maybe can't understand the sort of hold being deep into RC ecclesiology can leave on a person's way of looking at churches and communions outside of the RCC. Even with the post-VII fuzzy language, when it is constantly drilled into your head that St. Peter = The Prince of the Apostles = The Roman Pope, forever and ever in perpetuity throughout the universe because that's how Jesus Christ Our Lord wants it to be, I can't be anything but sympathetic to those who find themselves in the unenviable situation of trying to break out of that way of thinking while still being unsure in where they are at present. I've been there myself.

All I can say is that you have to get past it. I still find myself thinking in "Roman" ways sometimes (not about this, but about other things), which surely presents a challenge to my priest in terms of pastoral care, but it really does boil down to what Scamandrius has said: Stop caring. It's way easier said than done, but it is absolutely necessary so that you are not susceptible to these kinds of doubts and worries that keep you from growing spiritually. In the end it is not about Rome's claims one way or another; it is about where God is telling you to be, and how you can respond to that. If it takes a long time to convert (and for me there were about three years between my last RC mass and my baptism into the Coptic Orthodox Church, though I couldn't say if that was a long time or not), then okay. Remembering that it is later than you think, you still have to get to a point within yourself where you trust those who are receiving you to be preparing for your entrance into the kingdom of God, which frankly with all due respect to Peter J, Papist, and any other Roman communicant who might read this, the Roman Pope or his entire church cannot affect by this or that Papal Bull or stance or whatever. Maybe they will say this or that thing that the RCs will argue amongst themselves as to whether or not they reflect true/authentic RC teaching. You have to let them have that discussion, knowing that whatever its outcome is has absolutely zero effect on your eternal salvation, even if they say that it does. Remember that it was heretics like the Donatists and the later some Protestants who either explicitly or implicitly believed that any one person should have such power as to render sacraments void or keep others from God. To give credence to any statement coming from anywhere that would say, in essence, that you jeopardize your soul by leaving communion with one bishop on principle, is thereby to give at least indirect assent to such views. In other words, you may, even after leaving the RCC, still indirectly believe in it to that extent that you frame your theology in direct rejection of it (rather than being separate from it for historical and theological reasons that predate your personal rejection of it), thereby still viewing Rome as the sun around which Christianity and all churches and communions are to orbit. I'd say that's a much bigger danger than some Catholic layperson or priest saying that you're naughty and God is going be mad at you if you leave Rome, as I have known more than a few non-RCC (for instance, all Protestants) who do some version of this without realizing it.

Synopsis version: They'll what they say. Once you know better, you'll know better. The world will keep on spinning. Don't worry. Pray.

Logged

Sam G
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christianity
Jurisdiction: ROCOR (Old Rite)
Posts: 620


All ye Saints, pray to God for me a sinner.


« Reply #28 on: August 28, 2014, 11:21:55 PM »

I was told by my priest (RC) that I'd be putting my salvation at risk.

Aren't you putting your soul at risk every time you commit a mortal sin? How that a real threat?

From a RC perspective, I committed a mortal sin with no intention to ever repent.
Logged

All of my hope, I place in thee, O Mother of God; do preserve me under they shelter.
JoeS2
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic by choice
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 1,157


St. Mark Defender of the true Faith (old CAF guy)


« Reply #29 on: September 02, 2014, 10:04:59 PM »

Sorry for machine-gunning a bunch of new topics, but I have more questions than people to ask them to. If I were to convert to Eastern Orthodox christianity from the Roman Catholic church, would I be considered damned, or how does the church officially view catholic-orthodox converts?

If one believe fervently and is honest within himself that Orthodoxy retains the true Faith and is the fullest expression of that Faith then it shouldn't matter what your previous faith would consider you.....   As a convert myself, that was a thought in the back of my mind early one but as you learn more about the faith this feeling eventually leaves you. 
Logged
JoeS2
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic by choice
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 1,157


St. Mark Defender of the true Faith (old CAF guy)


« Reply #30 on: September 02, 2014, 10:09:27 PM »

Sorry for machine-gunning a bunch of new topics, but I have more questions than people to ask them to. If I were to convert to Eastern Orthodox christianity from the Roman Catholic church, would I be considered damned, or how does the church officially view catholic-orthodox converts?

Catholic or Orthodox, we still rely on Repentance and the Mercy of God for our salvation..
Logged
Alveus Lacuna
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 6,951



« Reply #31 on: September 02, 2014, 11:26:47 PM »

The Latins consider me a potato since my defection.
Logged
Maria
Orthodox Christian
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,401


O most Holy Theotokos, save us.


« Reply #32 on: September 02, 2014, 11:30:46 PM »

The Latins consider me a potato since my defection.

Haven't heard that they call us potatoes, but that makes sense;
We have eyes but see not.
I guess that they could call us corn, because we have ears but hear not.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2014, 11:37:32 PM by Maria » Logged

Glory to Jesus Christ!
Glory to Him forever!
Porter ODoran
Erst Amish Appalachian
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catechumen
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese
Posts: 2,000


Lord have mercy. Lord have mercy. Lord have mercy.


« Reply #33 on: September 02, 2014, 11:35:40 PM »

I was told by my priest (RC) that I'd be putting my salvation at risk.

Aren't you putting your soul at risk every time you commit a mortal sin? How that a real threat?

From a RC perspective, I committed a mortal sin with no intention to ever repent.

Same from the perspective of my religion of origin -- so I know personally that this can make you feel just sick in the pit of your stomach. Lord, have mercy on your servant Sam G.
Logged

In love did God create the world; in love does he guide it ...; in love is he going wondrously to transform it. --Abba Isaac

Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity. --Climacus
Papist
Patriarch of Pontification
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Byzantine
Posts: 12,365


Praying for the Christians in Iraq


« Reply #34 on: September 03, 2014, 01:27:03 AM »

I would remind everyone that for a sin to be moral in the eyes of Latin theologians, one would have to have full knowledge of the seriousness of the sin. If one is truly convinced that the Orthodox Church is Christ's Church, how could that person be guilty of mortal sin?
Logged

You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.
LBK
No Reporting Allowed
Moderated
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 11,446


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!


« Reply #35 on: September 03, 2014, 01:31:13 AM »

I would remind everyone that for a sin to be moral in the eyes of Latin theologians, one would have to have full knowledge of the seriousness of the sin. If one is truly convinced that the Orthodox Church is Christ's Church, how could that person be guilty of mortal sin?

You have just convicted yourself.  Tongue
Logged
Maria
Orthodox Christian
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Posts: 10,401


O most Holy Theotokos, save us.


« Reply #36 on: September 03, 2014, 01:37:36 AM »


I would remind everyone that for a sin to be moral in the eyes of Latin theologians, one would have to have full knowledge of the seriousness of the sin. If one is truly convinced that the Orthodox Church is Christ's Church, how could that person be guilty of mortal sin?

When I came to the realization that the Holy Orthodox Church is the Church that was founded by Christ, then I had to join her, and it no longer mattered what the RCC called me.
Logged

Glory to Jesus Christ!
Glory to Him forever!
TSchristian
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Faith: Christian
Jurisdiction: Praying to be orthodox
Posts: 32



« Reply #37 on: September 03, 2014, 11:32:52 PM »

Sorry for machine-gunning a bunch of new topics, but I have more questions than people to ask them to. If I were to convert to Eastern Orthodox christianity from the Roman Catholic church, would I be considered damned, or how does the church officially view catholic-orthodox converts?

Depends on what side of roman catholicism you'd be asking. Traditionally?

Quote
“The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.” (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441.)

 the sacred and holy Synod teaches, that, in the ordination of bishops, priests, and of the other orders, neither the consent, nor vocation, nor authority, whether of the people, or of any civil power or magistrate whatsoever, is required in such wise as that, without this, the ordination is invalid: yea rather doth It decree, that all those who, being only called and instituted by the people, or by the civil power and magistrate, ascend to the exercise of these ministrations, and those who of their own rashness assume them to themselves, are not ministers of the church, but are to be looked upon as thieves and robbers, who have not entered by the door.

CANON VII.--If any one saith, that bishops are not superior to priests; or, that they have not the power of confirming and ordaining; or, that the power which they possess is common to them and to priests; or, that orders, conferred by them, without the consent, or vocation of the people, or of the secular power, are invalid; or, that those who have neither been rightly ordained, nor sent, by ecclesiastical and canonical power, but come from elsewhere, are lawful ministers of the word and of the sacraments; let him be anathema.

Council of Trent Session 23

Modern Catholicism?

Quote
It follows that the separated Churches(23) and Communities as such, though we believe them to be deficient in some respects, have been by no means deprived of significance and importance in the mystery of salvation. For the Spirit of Christ has not refrained from using them as means of salvation which derive their efficacy from the very fullness of grace and truth entrusted to the Church...

...These Churches, although separated from us, possess true sacraments, above all by apostolic succession, the priesthood and the Eucharist, whereby they are linked with us in closest intimacy. Therefore some worship in common (communicatio in sacris), given suitable circumstances and the approval of Church authority, is not only possible but to be encouraged.

Vatican II, Unitatis Redintegratio

The salvation issue is polar opposite but another striking opposite is the modern use of apostolic succession. Apostolic Succession, in Roman Catholic ecclesiology, is a bishop who is not only consecrated validly but also is a bishop with ordinary jurisdiction, a bishop of a diocese. In Roman Catholic ecclesiology, you cannot possess ordinary jurisdiction if you are in schism with whom supplies that very jurisdiction, the Roman Pontiff. Because in the Catholic understanding the Pontiff is the only Bishop who receives jurisdiction from Christ and such delegation of jurisdiction is at the will of the Pontiff. If he didn't give it to you, you don't have it. You have to be sent by Rome, period. When Vatican II stated that Orthodox bishops have Apostolic Succession and the CDF taught that they head "true particular Churches", they immediately contradicted their own ecclesiology. But if you ask any modern roman clergy who are sent by modern Rome, not sedes or SSPX, they'll in fact encourage such conversion.

As St. Augustine said, "let the reader decide."
« Last Edit: September 03, 2014, 11:33:42 PM by TSchristian » Logged
JoeS2
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic by choice
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 1,157


St. Mark Defender of the true Faith (old CAF guy)


« Reply #38 on: September 04, 2014, 08:53:58 AM »

I would remind everyone that for a sin to be moral in the eyes of Latin theologians, one would have to have full knowledge of the seriousness of the sin. If one is truly convinced that the Orthodox Church is Christ's Church, how could that person be guilty of mortal sin?

Exactly, spot on !
Logged
JoeS2
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic by choice
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 1,157


St. Mark Defender of the true Faith (old CAF guy)


« Reply #39 on: September 04, 2014, 08:55:31 AM »


I would remind everyone that for a sin to be moral in the eyes of Latin theologians, one would have to have full knowledge of the seriousness of the sin. If one is truly convinced that the Orthodox Church is Christ's Church, how could that person be guilty of mortal sin?

When I came to the realization that the Holy Orthodox Church is the Church that was founded by Christ, then I had to join her, and it no longer mattered what the RCC called me.


Is it important for some converts to know what the RCC thinks of you?  You obviously were missing something in the old faith that you found in the new faith.  How can one who honestly is searching for the true faith be then stigmatized as a schismatic?  Once, a nun taught us that if you are convinced that your faith is the one true faith and you 'ignore' it then you risk salvation....  Of course she was referring to us RC's at the time. But the same idea holds true for converts.  If you honestly feel that your present faith is not the faith that has been kept throughout the ages in agreement with scripture and the Early Fathers, then it is imperative that one seek out the truth.....   

 Smiley
« Last Edit: September 04, 2014, 09:11:25 AM by JoeS2 » Logged
Tags:
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.14 seconds with 67 queries.