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Author Topic: Coptic practices in church.  (Read 1183 times) Average Rating: 0
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CopticDeacon
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« on: July 15, 2014, 07:23:26 PM »

Allow me to preface this by saying we should have our own forum haha  Grin  Cool  Wink


Do any of your churches do any of the following:
Wear golden badrashils? Or even another color.
Wear tonias for raising of incense?
Chant the psalm in Coptic EVERY time?
Wear, not linen tonias, but almost Byzantine like sticharions? Like the material that fancy priests and bishops wear.
Chant the reading introductions and conclusions in Coptic?(especially apetjeek)
Do the proper commemorations (Pinishti, maybe Evshes, even just the regular deacon response for the departed etc)
Shere Maria tiouro?
Mention any other awesome, out of the ordinary, or just proper customs your church follows.

Sadly, my church does non of the above. It does some of the Coptic hymns above, but only occasionally. Lord knows that if I ever have any power in a new coptic church(for Copts mainly not converts) I will die trying to establish all the practices above. That's my dream parish/church.
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« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2014, 08:13:16 PM »

copts tatoo . usually forbidden in orthodoxy.
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« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2014, 08:16:18 PM »

copts tatoo . usually forbidden in orthodoxy.

What does this have to do with the price of eggs?
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« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2014, 08:25:39 PM »

Wear golden badrashils? Or even another color.

Yes, but it is rare.

Wear tonias for raising of incense?

We started wearing them in our local church 2 years ago. For standardization purposes mainly.

Chant the psalm in Coptic EVERY time?

Not in the church I attend now. I do not recall that this was practiced in Egypt either. However, it was practiced in the churches I attended in the US and Europe.
 
Wear, not linen tonias, but almost Byzantine like sticharions? Like the material that fancy priests and bishops wear.

No. Is this common? I have yet to see a deacon, priest or bishop wearing this kind of tonias. Are you maybe referring to the liturgical vestment of the priest, which he wears on top of the white linen / cotton tonia?

Chant the reading introductions and conclusions in Coptic?(especially apetjeek)

In "major" feasts and in the presence of a bishop like Anba Raphael who loves hymns and is never in a hurry.

Do the proper commemorations (Pinishti, maybe Evshes, even just the regular deacon response for the departed etc)
Shere Maria tiouro?

Pinishti when the liturgy coincides with the commemoration of a great monastic saint. We do not recite the deacon response for the departed.

Mention any other awesome, out of the ordinary, or just proper customs your church follows.

We pray about 20% of the liturgy in Coptic. Considering how much pressure there is to phase this language out altogether, I think this is remarkable.
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CopticDeacon
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« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2014, 08:32:53 PM »

Wear golden badrashils? Or even another color.

Yes, but it is rare.

Wear tonias for raising of incense?

We started wearing them in our local church 2 years ago. For standardization purposes mainly.

Chant the psalm in Coptic EVERY time?

Not in the church I attend now. I do not recall that this was practiced in Egypt either. However, it was practiced in the churches I attended in the US and Europe.
 
Wear, not linen tonias, but almost Byzantine like sticharions? Like the material that fancy priests and bishops wear.

No. Is this common? I have yet to see a deacon, priest or bishop wearing this kind of tonias. Are you maybe referring to the liturgical vestment of the priest, which he wears on top of the white linen / cotton tonia?

Chant the reading introductions and conclusions in Coptic?(especially apetjeek)

In "major" feasts and in the presence of a bishop like Anba Raphael who loves hymns and is never in a hurry.

Do the proper commemorations (Pinishti, maybe Evshes, even just the regular deacon response for the departed etc)
Shere Maria tiouro?

Pinishti when the liturgy coincides with the commemoration of a great monastic saint. We do not recite the deacon response for the departed.

Mention any other awesome, out of the ordinary, or just proper customs your church follows.

We pray about 20% of the liturgy in Coptic. Considering how much pressure there is to phase this language out altogether, I think this is remarkable.

Pretty solid answers. Is red the standard color for badrashils in your church?

copts tatoo . usually forbidden in orthodoxy.

What does this have to do with the price of eggs?

I laughed so hard. Actually out loud. Thank you. This will be in my signature
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« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2014, 08:39:01 PM »

Quote
Is red the standard color for badrashils in your church?

Yes.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2014, 08:39:18 PM by Stavro » Logged

In that day there will be an altar to the LORD in the heart of Egypt, and a monument to the LORD at its border. (Isaiah 19:19)

" God forbid I should see the face of Judah or listen to his blasphemy" (Gerontius, Archmanidrite of the monastery of St. Melania)
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« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2014, 08:40:47 PM »

copts tatoo . usually forbidden in orthodoxy.

What does this have to do with the price of eggs?

 nothing about eggs , but   why  orthodoxy then ?
why not throw the bible out ;why not pray at pagan altars .

if copts want tatoos ,they can have tatoos.
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CopticDeacon
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« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2014, 08:51:47 PM »

Quote
Is red the standard color for badrashils in your church?

Yes.

Is your real name Stavro? I love the names Stavro and Pistavros.

I sometimes feel like we're missing things. Like when we skip Meghalo sometimes in lent.....like what? Are you serious? Its only to be chanted on the weekends. Our shortest liturgies are around 2 hours. I think one time on a wednesday we didn't do any hymns for the readings(except the gospel of course). We said Sotis Amen, skipped Tishori and the Hiten's, skipped shere ne maria etc....we read the Pauline Epistle, Catholic Epistle, and the Acts one after another...that left a hole in my heart haha.
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« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2014, 09:05:05 PM »

copts tatoo . usually forbidden in orthodoxy.

What does this have to do with the price of eggs?

 nothing about eggs , but   why  orthodoxy then ?
why not throw the bible out ;why not pray at pagan altars .

if copts want tatoos ,they can have tatoos.

Hi Christodoulostheou,

Here is a good thread about Orthodox people and tatoos:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,5844.0.html

You would be surprised how many Eastern Orthodox have them.   Smiley

The thread is a bit old, but you can revive it and post your thoughts about tattoos there.  I'd like to keep the present thread on topic.

Thanks,
Salpy
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CopticDeacon
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« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2014, 09:10:43 PM »

copts tatoo . usually forbidden in orthodoxy.

What does this have to do with the price of eggs?

 nothing about eggs , but   why  orthodoxy then ?
why not throw the bible out ;why not pray at pagan altars .

if copts want tatoos ,they can have tatoos.

What Stavro is implying is that I asked about practices that have to do with liturgy, and you answered with something off topic. The tattoo thing is not something we employed, the first Muslim persecutors cut our fathers' tongues off for speaking Coptic and required the faithful to be marked with crosses. Many Copts keep the tattoo, small and modest, as a reminder of God's constant presence and as a memory for the suffering that happened years ago and still happens now. Some get big ones and show it off. Please don't discuss this here. Start a new thread or search for an old one if you want to learn more.
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CopticDeacon
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« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2014, 08:51:06 PM »

Guys, I originally asked what colors your deacons wear, and what hymns you sing and don't sing. We're pretty off topic. So a little deviation is alright.
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« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2014, 08:55:31 PM »

Mostly red.  No golden stoles in my parish.  We have in fact chanted Meghalo every Sunday.  We chanted Ontos during Pentecost.  Every once in a while, we do the pre-Catholicon hymn.  Pretty much, if you know it, you are encouraged to chant it, and we have quite a lot of chanters that know.

We now also chant the Psalm in the annual Psalm tune, but in English, not in Coptic.  On feast days, we also chant it in a festive way in English.
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CopticDeacon
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« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2014, 09:05:22 PM »

Mostly red.  No golden stoles in my parish.  We have in fact chanted Meghalo every Sunday.  We chanted Ontos during Pentecost.  Every once in a while, we do the pre-Catholicon hymn.  Pretty much, if you know it, you are encouraged to chant it, and we have quite a lot of chanters that know.

We now also chant the Psalm in the annual Psalm tune, but in English, not in Coptic.  On feast days, we also chant it in a festive way in English.


My cousin told me before he switched churches, one church in chicago had a priest who was quite old abd a little uhh...strange. He wears (and basically makes the younger priest wear) whack colors(by coptic standards) I've only seen one picture. It would be okay if he just liked things like that but my cousin said he was weird about everything and very controlling and specific.
Anyway, I heard yesterday's psalm chanted in annual tube in English, it was nice. It flows.
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CopticDeacon
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« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2014, 09:07:14 PM »

A big BY THE WAY, I'm okay with the language conversation continuing here, but I'd rather have it not...here or anywhere. I don't think it's very productive.





-----------------------------

Since people could not resist talking about liturgical language issues, I split that tangent off and put it here:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,59693.0.html

I am asking that people now keep this thread on topic.

Salpy   Smiley
« Last Edit: July 21, 2014, 12:31:06 AM by Salpy » Logged

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« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2014, 10:15:10 PM »

On feast days we say the long Ic Pateer
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Vain existence can never exist, for \\\"unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain.\\\" (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.
CopticDeacon
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« Reply #15 on: July 16, 2014, 10:24:44 PM »

On feast days we say the long Ic Pateer

I just learned it and will probably chant it in a small group on the next feast. I absolutely love Ic Pateer. I just have trouble with the first 2 words after amen.... "Ic Pateer". But I know the rest pretty well. I also know the Great, Longer version of Pinishti better than the short one because I listened to it and downloaded it first. I didn't even know there was a short one until recently haha.
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« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2014, 12:06:11 AM »

On feast days we say the long Ic Pateer

I just learned it and will probably chant it in a small group on the next feast. I absolutely love Ic Pateer. I just have trouble with the first 2 words after amen.... "Ic Pateer". But I know the rest pretty well. I also know the Great, Longer version of Pinishti better than the short one because I listened to it and downloaded it first. I didn't even know there was a short one until recently haha.

I personally start with three step-wise higher levels of tones on "Ic" (I-I-Ic) and then "Pat (e-e-e) higher tone (e-e-e) lower tone and then the last four step-wise lower longer e's (ee-ee-ee-eer) Agiiiiio-o...."

I hope that helps, maybe?
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Vain existence can never exist, for \\\"unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain.\\\" (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.
CopticDeacon
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« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2014, 12:15:30 AM »

On feast days we say the long Ic Pateer

I just learned it and will probably chant it in a small group on the next feast. I absolutely love Ic Pateer. I just have trouble with the first 2 words after amen.... "Ic Pateer". But I know the rest pretty well. I also know the Great, Longer version of Pinishti better than the short one because I listened to it and downloaded it first. I didn't even know there was a short one until recently haha.

I personally start with three step-wise higher levels of tones on "Ic" (I-I-Ic) and then "Pat (e-e-e) higher tone (e-e-e) lower tone and then the last four step-wise lower longer e's (ee-ee-ee-eer) Agiiiiio-o...."

I hope that helps, maybe?

It kinda does haha. Behold, Chalcedonians! Behold, Miaphysites! Behold, heretics! I give you *drum roll* (or cymbal clash) COPTIC CHANT NOTATION
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« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2014, 12:26:02 AM »

On feast days we say the long Ic Pateer

I just learned it and will probably chant it in a small group on the next feast. I absolutely love Ic Pateer. I just have trouble with the first 2 words after amen.... "Ic Pateer". But I know the rest pretty well. I also know the Great, Longer version of Pinishti better than the short one because I listened to it and downloaded it first. I didn't even know there was a short one until recently haha.

I personally start with three step-wise higher levels of tones on "Ic" (I-I-Ic) and then "Pat (e-e-e) higher tone (e-e-e) lower tone and then the last four step-wise lower longer e's (ee-ee-ee-eer) Agiiiiio-o...."

I hope that helps, maybe?

It kinda does haha. Behold, Chalcedonians! Behold, Miaphysites! Behold, heretics! I give you *drum roll* (or cymbal clash) COPTIC CHANT NOTATION

lol!  My cousin one time went to this musician who wanted to collect many musical pieces from different cultures.  So, as my cousin chanted something in Coptic, this musician typed in musical notation what he chanted in ten minutes, the same thing that would take weeks by Ragheb Moftah!!!
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Vain existence can never exist, for \\\"unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain.\\\" (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.
CopticDeacon
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« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2014, 12:50:02 AM »

On feast days we say the long Ic Pateer

I just learned it and will probably chant it in a small group on the next feast. I absolutely love Ic Pateer. I just have trouble with the first 2 words after amen.... "Ic Pateer". But I know the rest pretty well. I also know the Great, Longer version of Pinishti better than the short one because I listened to it and downloaded it first. I didn't even know there was a short one until recently haha.

I personally start with three step-wise higher levels of tones on "Ic" (I-I-Ic) and then "Pat (e-e-e) higher tone (e-e-e) lower tone and then the last four step-wise lower longer e's (ee-ee-ee-eer) Agiiiiio-o...."

I hope that helps, maybe?

It kinda does haha. Behold, Chalcedonians! Behold, Miaphysites! Behold, heretics! I give you *drum roll* (or cymbal clash) COPTIC CHANT NOTATION

lol!  My cousin one time went to this musician who wanted to collect many musical pieces from different cultures.  So, as my cousin chanted something in Coptic, this musician typed in musical notation what he chanted in ten minutes, the same thing that would take weeks by Ragheb Moftah!!!

Dr. Moftah had limited resources, and less advanced equipment compared to now. But he did have skill, and determination.  But let me tell you, your cousin wasn't chanting the great Singary psalm, Pekethronos, or Owoh Nai Nem(especially that one!) it was probably Tenoousht EmEfiout Ente Piouoini and a Doxology haha!  Grin  laugh
« Last Edit: July 17, 2014, 12:51:08 AM by CopticDeacon » Logged

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