Author Topic: The events the Catholic Curch and the Orthodox Church faced, have shaped them.  (Read 1972 times)

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Offline Raylight

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English is not my native language, sorry for any misspellings.

Through my reading about the early Church and the later history of Christianity, also by reading some threads here. I know now that the Catholic Church ( Church of Rome ) faced many events in history that shaped her and her followers until today, yet, the Orthodox Church didn't face such events, but it faced a different kind of events that also shaped the Orthodox Church until today including her followers.

I believe the Catholic Church faced what we call it the dark ages, but it wasn't the case where the Orthodox Church was. Some heretics rose in the east have lead the Orthodox to face them, yet another type of heretics rose in the west and also the Church there had to face them. Wars, both Churches, the Catholic and the Orthodox have faced wars.

How did these events shape each Church and their followers then and today ?

I do realize it is very small question but it needs a long answer, but I don't want long perfect answer. I just want to you personal opinion and thoughts on the issue ?

Peace.

Offline TheTrisagion

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I think two main things have shaped the Orthodox Church, one is the Great Schism which has caused great suspicion by the Orthodox against western Christianity. Two is the Muslim invasion which I think has cultivated a greater sense of struggle as a higher goal in Orthodoxy.  Whereas Christianity can be looked upon as largely triumphalistic in the West, Orthodoxy has a great concentration on the struggle of the Christian life.  Given the state of the world, the sense of struggle makes more sense to me.

That is about as short as I can make my answer. This topic really could extend out into a volume of books.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2014, 10:48:08 AM by TheTrisagion »
The term planet earth is an innovation which has arisen in recent centuries with the error of heliocentrism.

If one wants to confess a pure doctrine of Orthodoxy, they should be careful not to refer to the earth as a planet, unlike the current Pope as well as Patriarch Kirill and Patriarch Bartholomew, who regularly speak in error when they refer to our planet earth.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Raylight, you make a fair point. Yet West and East also set their faces against their problems in different ways. When I read historical documents, I discern a difference in Rome almost from the beginning. (While, on the other hand, when I read, say, the Cappadocian Fathers, I discern a difference from the normal as well, a blessed difference.)
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Raylight

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Raylight, you make a fair point. Yet West and East also set their faces against their problems in different ways. When I read historical documents, I discern a difference in Rome almost from the beginning. (While, on the other hand, when I read, say, the Cappadocian Fathers, I discern a difference from the normal as well, a blessed difference.)

You mean to say that the way the Orthodox Church faced her problems in a different way than the Catholic Church did. right ?

Offline Porter ODoran

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West = Rome, East = Constantinople, yes.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Raylight

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I think two main things have shaped the Orthodox Church, one is the Great Schism which has caused great suspicion by the Orthodox against western Christianity. Two is the Muslim invasion which I think has cultivated a greater sense of struggle as a higher goal in Orthodoxy.  Whereas Christianity can be looked upon as largely triumphalistic in the West, Orthodoxy has a great concentration on the struggle of the Christian life.  Given the state of the world, the sense of struggle makes more sense to me.

That is about as short as I can make my answer. This topic really could extend out into a volume of books.

I believe the East looked suspiciously to the West from the time the Byzantine Empire and what the Emperor there wanted. I don't claim that this is a fact, but this is merely my personal opinion.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Mor has an open appeal. This we knew already.

Mor suffers from Invincible Ignorance and is guaranteed salvation according to the Roman Catholic Church.

Offline TheTrisagion

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« Last Edit: July 09, 2014, 02:36:51 PM by TheTrisagion »
The term planet earth is an innovation which has arisen in recent centuries with the error of heliocentrism.

If one wants to confess a pure doctrine of Orthodoxy, they should be careful not to refer to the earth as a planet, unlike the current Pope as well as Patriarch Kirill and Patriarch Bartholomew, who regularly speak in error when they refer to our planet earth.

Offline Raylight

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West = Rome, East = Constantinople, yes.

Correct, but could you please say in what way they both were different ? If you want of course.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Mor has an open appeal. This we knew already.

Mor suffers from Invincible Ignorance and is guaranteed salvation according to the Roman Catholic Church.

Offline TheTrisagion

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East = Constantinople

Ugh, gross.
You're just jealous.

LOL, never.  Not for that reason, anyway.
It is obvious that you are miffed at not being invited to the party.  Here, maybe this will make you happy.

West = Rome
East = Constantinople
Further East = Yerevan

 :P
The term planet earth is an innovation which has arisen in recent centuries with the error of heliocentrism.

If one wants to confess a pure doctrine of Orthodoxy, they should be careful not to refer to the earth as a planet, unlike the current Pope as well as Patriarch Kirill and Patriarch Bartholomew, who regularly speak in error when they refer to our planet earth.

Offline Porter ODoran

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East = Constantinople

Ugh, gross.

:) Well, I meant in my post that Ray asked me to interpret.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Porter ODoran

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If I got to go to a church that looked like this, the "East" (Greeks) might never see me again.

"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Mor Ephrem

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East = Constantinople

Ugh, gross.
You're just jealous.

LOL, never.  Not for that reason, anyway.
It is obvious that you are miffed at not being invited to the party.  Here, maybe this will make you happy.

West = Rome
East = Constantinople
Further East = Yerevan

 :P

If we're being serious, it really is

West = Old/New Rome
East = Everything Else
Mor has an open appeal. This we knew already.

Mor suffers from Invincible Ignorance and is guaranteed salvation according to the Roman Catholic Church.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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If I got to go to a church that looked like this, the "East" (Greeks) might never see me again.



Pretty sure you can find that in the NW.  :)
Mor has an open appeal. This we knew already.

Mor suffers from Invincible Ignorance and is guaranteed salvation according to the Roman Catholic Church.

Offline podkarpatska

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East = Constantinople

Ugh, gross.
You're just jealous.

LOL, never.  Not for that reason, anyway.
It is obvious that you are miffed at not being invited to the party.  Here, maybe this will make you happy.

West = Rome
East = Constantinople
Further East = Yerevan

 :P

You left out 'East of Yerevan'....or was that a 1930's road movie?

Offline Porter ODoran

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East = Constantinople

Ugh, gross.
You're just jealous.

LOL, never.  Not for that reason, anyway.
It is obvious that you are miffed at not being invited to the party.  Here, maybe this will make you happy.

West = Rome
East = Constantinople
Further East = Yerevan

 :P

If we're being serious, it really is

West = Old/New Rome
East = Everything Else

Then how do we denominate the important differences between Old and New Romes? They may not have been anywhere as great as that between Rome and eastward, but they are still worth having a name.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Mor Ephrem

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East = Constantinople

Ugh, gross.
You're just jealous.

LOL, never.  Not for that reason, anyway.
It is obvious that you are miffed at not being invited to the party.  Here, maybe this will make you happy.

West = Rome
East = Constantinople
Further East = Yerevan

 :P

If we're being serious, it really is

West = Old/New Rome
East = Everything Else

Then how do we denominate the important differences between Old and New Romes? They may not have been anywhere as great as that between Rome and eastward, but they are still worth having a name.

Assuming they are actual differences and not just one side wanting to have it both ways, you could always distinguish between the West and the Wild Wild West.  :P
Mor has an open appeal. This we knew already.

Mor suffers from Invincible Ignorance and is guaranteed salvation according to the Roman Catholic Church.

Offline TheTrisagion

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East = Constantinople

Ugh, gross.
You're just jealous.

LOL, never.  Not for that reason, anyway.
It is obvious that you are miffed at not being invited to the party.  Here, maybe this will make you happy.

West = Rome
East = Constantinople
Further East = Yerevan

 :P

If we're being serious, it really is

West = Old/New Rome
East = Everything Else
Oh you monophysites, everything has to revolve around Chalcedon for you, doesn't it?  ;) ;D
The term planet earth is an innovation which has arisen in recent centuries with the error of heliocentrism.

If one wants to confess a pure doctrine of Orthodoxy, they should be careful not to refer to the earth as a planet, unlike the current Pope as well as Patriarch Kirill and Patriarch Bartholomew, who regularly speak in error when they refer to our planet earth.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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If we're being serious, it really is

West = Old/New Rome
East = Everything Else
Oh you monophysites, everything has to revolve around Chalcedon for you, doesn't it?  ;) ;D


Who said anything about Chalcedon? 

I know you are joking, but for over a decade now I've been amused at how much projection there is from EO people on this point. 
Mor has an open appeal. This we knew already.

Mor suffers from Invincible Ignorance and is guaranteed salvation according to the Roman Catholic Church.

Offline Porter ODoran

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East = Constantinople

Ugh, gross.
You're just jealous.

LOL, never.  Not for that reason, anyway.
It is obvious that you are miffed at not being invited to the party.  Here, maybe this will make you happy.

West = Rome
East = Constantinople
Further East = Yerevan

 :P

If we're being serious, it really is

West = Old/New Rome
East = Everything Else

Then how do we denominate the important differences between Old and New Romes? They may not have been anywhere as great as that between Rome and eastward, but they are still worth having a name.

Assuming they are actual differences and not just one side wanting to have it both ways, you could always distinguish between the West and the Wild Wild West.  :P

I perceive the differences as very important but hard to label, as they were largely unofficial. When St. Constantine chose Byzantium, he chose a region and culture that were very different from the old heart of the Empire. The move to Asia minor was a purposeful commitment to ways more ancient and much more beneficial than the ways of Rome qua Rome. I am thinking how to be more specific, but in the meantime I'll just add another broad observation -- that I think this move was spiritually vital for Christianity.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline TheTrisagion

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If we're being serious, it really is

West = Old/New Rome
East = Everything Else
Oh you monophysites, everything has to revolve around Chalcedon for you, doesn't it?  ;) ;D


Who said anything about Chalcedon? 

I know you are joking, but for over a decade now I've been amused at how much projection there is from EO people on this point. 
I posted a semi-related post on the other thread, but that projection probably comes from the opinion of many/most EO that there is no difference between EO and OO other than Chalcedon.
The term planet earth is an innovation which has arisen in recent centuries with the error of heliocentrism.

If one wants to confess a pure doctrine of Orthodoxy, they should be careful not to refer to the earth as a planet, unlike the current Pope as well as Patriarch Kirill and Patriarch Bartholomew, who regularly speak in error when they refer to our planet earth.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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I posted a semi-related post on the other thread, but that projection probably comes from the opinion of many/most EO that there is no difference between EO and OO other than Chalcedon.

I think there is some truth in that, both in terms of "There's no other real difference, so why not sign on" but also in terms of promoting Chalcedon as some sort of superdogma without which everything falls apart.  No matter how "generous" the EO are toward the OO, those are the two ends of the spectrum.  No one ever considers alternatives as anything other than silliness.   
Mor has an open appeal. This we knew already.

Mor suffers from Invincible Ignorance and is guaranteed salvation according to the Roman Catholic Church.

Offline TheTrisagion

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Since I am (hopefully) anonymous on this forum, I shall just come out and say it.  I think Chalcedon was kind of a silly council and shouldn't be considered ecumenical.  I agree with the theology of it, but the split it caused was not worth it.  Not by a long shot.

*awaits the excommunication police to show up on doorstep*
The term planet earth is an innovation which has arisen in recent centuries with the error of heliocentrism.

If one wants to confess a pure doctrine of Orthodoxy, they should be careful not to refer to the earth as a planet, unlike the current Pope as well as Patriarch Kirill and Patriarch Bartholomew, who regularly speak in error when they refer to our planet earth.

Offline Nephi

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I think Chalcedon was kind of a silly council and shouldn't be considered ecumenical.

You're not alone. ;)

I consider it a local (and flawed) council, myself.

Offline Raylight

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I think Chalcedon was kind of a silly council and shouldn't be considered ecumenical.

You're not alone. ;)

I consider it a local (and flawed) council, myself.

Catholics got the Vatican II to hate, and Orthodox got the Chalcedon to hate. Interesting   :)

Offline Mor Ephrem

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I think Chalcedon was kind of a silly council and shouldn't be considered ecumenical.

You're not alone. ;)

I consider it a local (and flawed) council, myself.

Catholics got the Vatican II to hate, and Orthodox got the Chalcedon to hate. Interesting   :)

What do the Protestants hate? 
Mor has an open appeal. This we knew already.

Mor suffers from Invincible Ignorance and is guaranteed salvation according to the Roman Catholic Church.

Offline Theophania

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I think Chalcedon was kind of a silly council and shouldn't be considered ecumenical.

You're not alone. ;)

I consider it a local (and flawed) council, myself.

Catholics got the Vatican II to hate, and Orthodox got the Chalcedon to hate. Interesting   :)

What do the Protestants hate? 

Tradition
It's common knowledge that you secretly want to be born in early 17th century Russia.  As a serf or a royal, I know not.  Chances are serf.

Offline Porter ODoran

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I think Chalcedon was kind of a silly council and shouldn't be considered ecumenical.

You're not alone. ;)

I consider it a local (and flawed) council, myself.

Catholics got the Vatican II to hate, and Orthodox got the Chalcedon to hate. Interesting   :)

What do the Protestants hate? 

Everything.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy