Author Topic: Stipend Etiquette (priest)  (Read 2428 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline TheTrisagion

  • The cat is back and its better than ever!
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 11,652
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Re: Stipend Etiquette (priest)
« Reply #45 on: July 10, 2014, 11:13:22 PM »

But hey, you guys think that's bad; one of the nuttier ushers accused my Mother of theft—on the night of the Pascha vigil. He thought she put a $1into the collection plate in the narthex for keria/candles, but she put a $5 and took $3 back. And then he refused to recant! Because my Mom is getting a bit old and set in her ways and thus refused to go to any service not in English/liturgical Greek, we stayed. That is the main reason why I left and became an actual (but non-paying) member of the other cathedral next door.
Who yells at an old lady at the Pascha vigil?!?! (or anytime for that matter) If someone actually did steal a dollar from the church, that is between them and God, not something an usher needs to involve himself in!
Will we all have to prove our Orthodoxy by adopting St Nicholas avatars now?

Offline SolEX01

  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 12,298
    • Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Metropolis of New Jersey
Re: Stipend Etiquette (priest)
« Reply #46 on: July 10, 2014, 11:29:06 PM »
This is starting to seem as though it should be in GOA-OCA Discussion. ;) But really -- rather fascinating stuff.

Sorry, I just had to say it, as blatantly off topic as it was. I haven't spoken about it in the year and three-odd months since it's happened; nobody I know well enough to tell cares.

If you're interested, the thread below discusses making change at the candle stand (or offering table or collection plate)....

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,34471.0.html

Offline wainscottbl

  • Aspie weirdo of the forum
  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,529
Re: Stipend Etiquette (priest)
« Reply #47 on: July 12, 2014, 12:45:14 PM »
This thread has generated a lot of discussion about frustration with the Church or church (parish) demanding money to a point people find offensive. It is a problem that was especially a problem in the Middle Ages, especially in the West. Though the Protestant really exaggerate and misrepresent Indulgences, they really were sold by unscrupulous clergy and Chaucer is good example in Canterbury Tales of lay frustration with the clergy. I think there can be a mild form of clericism like people are talking about here that often gets pushed off as people who need to "follow authority". I find this "you need to listen to the bishop" in the Catholic Church regarding modernism, and I would guess, especially in America this is the case because Americans tend to have a thing of blindly following or looking up to authority figures. Thus it is wrong to criticise the bishops or clergy even. "Father is always right!"
True patriotism sometimes requires of men to act exactly contrary, at one period, to that which it does at another, and the motive which impels them — the desire to do right — is precisely the same.

--Robert E. Lee

Offline Peter J

  • Formerly PJ
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,268
  • Faith: Melkite Catholic
Re: Stipend Etiquette (priest)
« Reply #48 on: July 13, 2014, 06:41:18 PM »
You beat me to it. That's one claim (co-redemtrix) that stops even the most ecumenically minded of us dead in our tracks. I would go further and say it is heretical. At least one Roman Catholic commentator agrees with that. "The Mary Heresy: Papal support for Co-Redemptrix?"
Read more at http://www.beliefnet.com/columnists/pontifications/2009/05/the-mary-heresy-papal-support.

In view of that and the many similar statements you've made during the years I've been reading your writings, I take careful note of your saying the Co-Redemptrix is heretical. (Although to be honest, I wasn't exactly a fan of it even before reading ^^ this.) I don't have time to check out the webpage you linked to right now, but I hopefully will soon.
- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)

Offline Father H

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,646
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
Re: Stipend Etiquette (priest)
« Reply #49 on: July 13, 2014, 08:07:54 PM »
If everyone gives as they should, such people would not need to give any stipend and don't need to and no one expects them to, provided the priest makes a living wage.  As for candles, since it was brought up, they cost hundreds of dollars per order.  The Church loses money before it gains it back.  I announced one Sunday that if people did not want to pay the prices for the candles that the parish council had set, they could bring their own.  At first, the parish council was not happy with me.  However, as it turned out, no one wanted to have to bring their own candles, and they found out quickly that the price+effort makes it worth it to just buy them from the church. 

That all being said, some jurisdictions make sure that their priest makes a living wage, and others do not.  This yields a huge imbalance, and makes a single standard as to stipends virtually impossible. 

Offline wainscottbl

  • Aspie weirdo of the forum
  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,529
Re: Stipend Etiquette (priest)
« Reply #50 on: July 14, 2014, 09:36:54 PM »
If everyone gives as they should, such people would not need to give any stipend and don't need to and no one expects them to, provided the priest makes a living wage.  As for candles, since it was brought up, they cost hundreds of dollars per order.  The Church loses money before it gains it back.  I announced one Sunday that if people did not want to pay the prices for the candles that the parish council had set, they could bring their own.  At first, the parish council was not happy with me.  However, as it turned out, no one wanted to have to bring their own candles, and they found out quickly that the price+effort makes it worth it to just buy them from the church. 

That all being said, some jurisdictions make sure that their priest makes a living wage, and others do not.  This yields a huge imbalance, and makes a single standard as to stipends virtually impossible. 

Can there not be a place to buy candles, a little drop in box and the prices listed. It is on trust. That is how it is in most Catholic parishes. You pay so much for small, so much for big, etc. and you put your money in the little marked box. Or are people forgetting (or not) to drop their money?
True patriotism sometimes requires of men to act exactly contrary, at one period, to that which it does at another, and the motive which impels them — the desire to do right — is precisely the same.

--Robert E. Lee

Offline wainscottbl

  • Aspie weirdo of the forum
  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,529
Re: Stipend Etiquette (priest)
« Reply #51 on: July 14, 2014, 09:44:34 PM »
Oh back to what I mentioned in what I said to begin with as OP. I ran in to a lady who goes to that parish (we graduated together) and we chatted for a couple minutes. I explained I am looking into Orthodoxy but I asked who was the priest at the parish she was going to--the one where the priest told me I HAD to give a stipend for a mass. She mentioned his name and that he was there sometimes. I said I did not not like him--that he was too strict in confession and harsh in general. And she was quick to agree and told me many others avoided going to confession to him because he was so harsh. He is just very stern and really can be too harsh in the confessional. It is not wonder then that he said I had to pay a stipend. I might well have paid it. I was asking if a certain day was open via the telephone. It was a special date, you see. He could have said yes or no. I think he had said yes and I asked later if he said that mass for my intention. Yes, I remember. He sad, "I remembered your intention, but I said it for the intention paid by the stipend. You have to pay a stipend. Do you know what that is?" That sort of thing. He never mentioned the stipend when he said yes. I assumed his yes meant he would offer the mass for my intention. I guess he expected pay, which I never gave. It was all rather rude, but like I said I learned today that he comes across as rude to everyone. People avoid going to confession to him.
True patriotism sometimes requires of men to act exactly contrary, at one period, to that which it does at another, and the motive which impels them — the desire to do right — is precisely the same.

--Robert E. Lee

Offline Yurysprudentsiya

  • Section Moderator
  • Archon
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,632
  • God, the Great, the Only, Keep for Us Our Ukraine!
  • Faith: Orthodox Christian
  • Jurisdiction: OCA, with a love for the UOC-USA
Re: Stipend Etiquette (priest)
« Reply #52 on: July 14, 2014, 09:45:39 PM »
If everyone gives as they should, such people would not need to give any stipend and don't need to and no one expects them to, provided the priest makes a living wage.  As for candles, since it was brought up, they cost hundreds of dollars per order.  The Church loses money before it gains it back.  I announced one Sunday that if people did not want to pay the prices for the candles that the parish council had set, they could bring their own.  At first, the parish council was not happy with me.  However, as it turned out, no one wanted to have to bring their own candles, and they found out quickly that the price+effort makes it worth it to just buy them from the church. 

That all being said, some jurisdictions make sure that their priest makes a living wage, and others do not.  This yields a huge imbalance, and makes a single standard as to stipends virtually impossible. 

Can there not be a place to buy candles, a little drop in box and the prices listed. It is on trust. That is how it is in most Catholic parishes. You pay so much for small, so much for big, etc. and you put your money in the little marked box. Or are people forgetting (or not) to drop their money?

That's what we do.  $1, 3, and 5.