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Author Topic: Stipend Etiquette (priest)  (Read 1689 times) Average Rating: 0
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wainscottbl
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« on: July 07, 2014, 06:30:32 PM »

First of all do Orthodox have liturgies for particular intentions like a priest offers the Mass for a a particular intention?

If so do you think/is it proper etiquette for a priest to ask for etiquette when a person asks for a liturgy/mass to be offered for their intention? Since it is a small amount that is generally given (unless one wants to be generous) the priest should not ask for it because most people know to give a stipend and if the person does not it is rude to ask for one, even if it is only $5. I ask because I have only had a mass offered a couple times maybe and I always gave a stipend but one priest actually told me I need to give on for him to offer a mass for my intention. I was a bit offended because I was asking over the phone and did not even think of the stipend. I'm not saying this REALLY offended me but I was rather annoyed. I had the money to give but it just seemed rude to ask or demand one. It's a small amount, but it's not like one is paying for a service that you HAVE to pay or you will be in trouble, like say a lawyer. I always assumed the stipend was optional. No priest has ever asked me for one other than that time.

Priests, if it is proper for Orthodox, would you ask for a stipend or feel it discourteous?
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« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2014, 06:31:41 PM »

In fact the time before that I gave $10 to a priest to offer a funeral mass for a deceased monk and he said no to my money and said he would offer the funeral mass. If may have been because I had mentioned in confession I was in between jobs but it was interesting he did not want the stipend.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2014, 06:32:45 PM by wainscottbl » Logged

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« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2014, 07:06:00 PM »

What's so interesting about it? He knew you were in between jobs.

Yes it's normal to give a priest cash to help him with gas/petrol or whatnot.
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« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2014, 08:36:16 PM »

What's usual to offer when Father comes to bless your home? I hope I get a good godparent to help me with these questions.
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« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2014, 08:56:26 PM »

What's usual to offer when Father comes to bless your home? I hope I get a good godparent to help me with these questions.

$20-25 depending on petrol prices maybe more.

To make this an orthodox Catholic issue;
Catholic people give the priest money too
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« Reply #5 on: July 07, 2014, 09:15:42 PM »

What's usual to offer when Father comes to bless your home? I hope I get a good godparent to help me with these questions.

$20-25 depending on petrol prices maybe more.

How common is this? One day during house blessing season I saw a priest bless several homes and, apart from eating dinner at one, didn't seem to receive anything in exchange. In fact, two years in a row this was the case, so when I moved away and the priest of my new parish came to bless my house I just offered tea. Maybe I should offer some money for gas next time with this priest.
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« Reply #6 on: July 07, 2014, 09:20:16 PM »

What's usual to offer when Father comes to bless your home? I hope I get a good godparent to help me with these questions.

$20-25 depending on petrol prices maybe more.

How common is this? One day during house blessing season I saw a priest bless several homes and, apart from eating dinner at one, didn't seem to receive anything in exchange. In fact, two years in a row this was the case, so when I moved away and the priest of my new parish came to bless my house I just offered tea. Maybe I should offer some money for gas next time with this priest.

In my experience, if the priest receives a decent salary from the parish (i.e., something he and his family can actually live on), "gifts" aren't necessary.  If he doesn't receive a salary from the parish, or if it is a pittance, "gifts" may well make the difference. 
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« Reply #7 on: July 07, 2014, 09:27:45 PM »

In my experience, if the priest receives a decent salary from the parish (i.e., something he and his family can actually live on), "gifts" aren't necessary.  If he doesn't receive a salary from the parish, or if it is a pittance, "gifts" may well make the difference. 

That makes sense, thanks.

And I love the quotation marks, they remind me of those radio "donations." "For a donation of $20 or more, you'll receive Pastor Frank's new DVD on how to walk in the footsteps of Jesus!"
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« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2014, 09:32:32 PM »

In my experience, if the priest receives a decent salary from the parish (i.e., something he and his family can actually live on), "gifts" aren't necessary.  If he doesn't receive a salary from the parish, or if it is a pittance, "gifts" may well make the difference. 

That makes sense, thanks.

And I love the quotation marks, they remind me of those radio "donations." "For a donation of $20 or more, you'll receive Pastor Frank's new DVD on how to walk in the footsteps of Jesus!"

Don't get me started.  It's really atrocious how some jurisdictions treat their priests. 
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« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2014, 10:25:22 PM »

In my experience, if the priest receives a decent salary from the parish (i.e., something he and his family can actually live on), "gifts" aren't necessary.  If he doesn't receive a salary from the parish, or if it is a pittance, "gifts" may well make the difference. 

That makes sense, thanks.

And I love the quotation marks, they remind me of those radio "donations." "For a donation of $20 or more, you'll receive Pastor Frank's new DVD on how to walk in the footsteps of Jesus!"

Don't get me started.  It's really atrocious how some jurisdictions treat their priests. 

To clarify, I wasn't trying to make light of that (although sadly I'm rather ignorant of its extent). The local evangelical radio station always has the "donation" or "gift" requests that aren't really donations or gifts at all, which is what I thought of.
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« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2014, 10:44:16 PM »

In my experience, if the priest receives a decent salary from the parish (i.e., something he and his family can actually live on), "gifts" aren't necessary.  If he doesn't receive a salary from the parish, or if it is a pittance, "gifts" may well make the difference. 

That makes sense, thanks.

And I love the quotation marks, they remind me of those radio "donations." "For a donation of $20 or more, you'll receive Pastor Frank's new DVD on how to walk in the footsteps of Jesus!"

Don't get me started.  It's really atrocious how some jurisdictions treat their priests. 

To clarify, I wasn't trying to make light of that (although sadly I'm rather ignorant of its extent). The local evangelical radio station always has the "donation" or "gift" requests that aren't really donations or gifts at all, which is what I thought of.

I know.  Smiley
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« Reply #11 on: July 09, 2014, 04:33:52 PM »

In my experience, if the priest receives a decent salary from the parish (i.e., something he and his family can actually live on), "gifts" aren't necessary.  If he doesn't receive a salary from the parish, or if it is a pittance, "gifts" may well make the difference. 

That makes sense, thanks.

And I love the quotation marks, they remind me of those radio "donations." "For a donation of $20 or more, you'll receive Pastor Frank's new DVD on how to walk in the footsteps of Jesus!"

Don't get me started.  It's really atrocious how some jurisdictions treat their priests. 

Oh, don't get me started on Catholic Answers and their whole overpaid professional theologian avarice. Seriously, it's not so much the good work they do, but the fact that their upcoming cruise is way more than any working or middle class family can afford. Look at this!

http://www.catholicanswerscruise.com/pricing.htm


I can go on a real cruise in the same place for less.





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« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2014, 04:36:15 PM »

I heard, or read somewhere, that to ride first class on the Titanic was like $10,000 in today's money. Maybe it was more, but in any case the Catholic Answers cruise is way overpriced and the whole overpaid professional theologian thing....well.....
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« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2014, 04:37:38 PM »

LOL, no one got you started, and you're already going. 
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« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2014, 04:39:26 PM »

What's usual to offer when Father comes to bless your home? I hope I get a good godparent to help me with these questions.

$20-25 depending on petrol prices maybe more.

How common is this? One day during house blessing season I saw a priest bless several homes and, apart from eating dinner at one, didn't seem to receive anything in exchange. In fact, two years in a row this was the case, so when I moved away and the priest of my new parish came to bless my house I just offered tea. Maybe I should offer some money for gas next time with this priest.

In my experience, if the priest receives a decent salary from the parish (i.e., something he and his family can actually live on), "gifts" aren't necessary.  If he doesn't receive a salary from the parish, or if it is a pittance, "gifts" may well make the difference. 

I like the good old days where generous benefactors bequeathed real estate to the parish, the rents from which took care of the priests salary.  Seriously, this removed the awkward donation/dues/fees concept as well
as any need for government funding of churches.  Donations can then be used to help the poor materially, as was originally intended.  

I think our priests get tons of huge meals offered to them at house blessing time.  
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« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2014, 04:44:19 PM »

In my experience, if the priest receives a decent salary from the parish (i.e., something he and his family can actually live on), "gifts" aren't necessary.  If he doesn't receive a salary from the parish, or if it is a pittance, "gifts" may well make the difference. 

That makes sense, thanks.

And I love the quotation marks, they remind me of those radio "donations." "For a donation of $20 or more, you'll receive Pastor Frank's new DVD on how to walk in the footsteps of Jesus!"

Don't get me started.  It's really atrocious how some jurisdictions treat their priests. 

Oh, don't get me started on Catholic Answers and their whole overpaid professional theologian avarice. Seriously, it's not so much the good work they do, but the fact that their upcoming cruise is way more than any working or middle class family can afford. Look at this!

http://www.catholicanswerscruise.com/pricing.htm


I can go on a real cruise in the same place for less.


Please tell me more of this facinating opportunity!
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« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2014, 04:56:15 PM »

LOL, no one got you started, and you're already going. 

Oh shut up, Mor. We're about halfway to Lent so just remember that next time you want to be a smart...aleck. (I am not going to let you put me under moderation, at least not for foul language.)

But you are right as you are about half the time you decide to be a smarta...leck. I did want to get started.   angel
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« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2014, 04:59:33 PM »

Well that escalated quickly...
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« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2014, 05:04:57 PM »

I didn't know that's considered foul language.

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« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2014, 05:11:51 PM »

First of all do Orthodox have liturgies for particular intentions like a priest offers the Mass for a a particular intention?

If so do you think/is it proper etiquette for a priest to ask for etiquette when a person asks for a liturgy/mass to be offered for their intention? Since it is a small amount that is generally given (unless one wants to be generous) the priest should not ask for it because most people know to give a stipend and if the person does not it is rude to ask for one, even if it is only $5. I ask because I have only had a mass offered a couple times maybe and I always gave a stipend but one priest actually told me I need to give on for him to offer a mass for my intention. I was a bit offended because I was asking over the phone and did not even think of the stipend. I'm not saying this REALLY offended me but I was rather annoyed. I had the money to give but it just seemed rude to ask or demand one. It's a small amount, but it's not like one is paying for a service that you HAVE to pay or you will be in trouble, like say a lawyer. I always assumed the stipend was optional. No priest has ever asked me for one other than that time.

Priests, if it is proper for Orthodox, would you ask for a stipend or feel it discourteous?

I think it depends on what your circumstances are and what the circumstances of the priest are. When I first moved to university, I attended my city's local Greek Orthodox Archdiocese cathedral, and when I asked if we could have a 12 year mnemosyno/memorial service for my Grandmother, the man who took my info down was quite rude. He told me that it's not customary to have mnemosyna/memorials done past three years, I rather bluntly told him that he's wrong. When he demanded $80 for stari/kollyva/the food given out after the memorial made from wheat kernels, I told him that I was a college student and that I don't even have $80 in my bank account, so he told me "Fine, $35" in a rather put-out voice. Granted, it turns out that they gave me a lot of kollyva to take out (it was one of the biggest plastic baggies that I've ever seen), so my Mother (who paid me a surprise visit) gave them $60, if not the full $80. Meanwhile, at my home parish, nothing is asked, and we get stari, and at my new cathedral at school, nobody asks for money either. It really all depends on a person/parishioner-by-church basis. Good luck!
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« Reply #20 on: July 09, 2014, 05:41:53 PM »

Here volunteers evidently make the kolliva and bring it. Father just said "Oh remember some folks will need to bring kolliva" after liturgy prior to a memorial service.
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« Reply #21 on: July 09, 2014, 06:26:25 PM »

I would think most if not all diocese have a policy in place for this.  My own Archeparchy makes it clear that no service can be denied because of inability to pay and whatever stipend offered will be accepted.

The suggested stipends for services are:
Divine Liturgy, Memorial or Intention - $10
Wedding/Funeral - $100 for priest, $50 for cantor
Everything else - Whatever offered
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« Reply #22 on: July 09, 2014, 06:51:03 PM »

If you think the priest won't accept cash on the spot, send it to him with a thank you note-"thank you for taking the time to come bless our house, I hope this small gift will help offset the cost of driving here.."

If he is adamant about not accepting cash, a gift of food or drink he can use later; a bottle of wine, a small fruit basket or maybe a gift card to a local café. Also it wouldn't hurt to throw in a nice little something for the matushka, a small box of chocolates perhaps. After all, a clergy's wife frequently works hard to support the parish with little recognition.

I was raised Episcopalian, we considered good manners a sacrament.
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« Reply #23 on: July 09, 2014, 07:02:21 PM »

First of all do Orthodox have liturgies for particular intentions like a priest offers the Mass for a a particular intention?

If so do you think/is it proper etiquette for a priest to ask for etiquette when a person asks for a liturgy/mass to be offered for their intention? Since it is a small amount that is generally given (unless one wants to be generous) the priest should not ask for it because most people know to give a stipend and if the person does not it is rude to ask for one, even if it is only $5. I ask because I have only had a mass offered a couple times maybe and I always gave a stipend but one priest actually told me I need to give on for him to offer a mass for my intention. I was a bit offended because I was asking over the phone and did not even think of the stipend. I'm not saying this REALLY offended me but I was rather annoyed. I had the money to give but it just seemed rude to ask or demand one. It's a small amount, but it's not like one is paying for a service that you HAVE to pay or you will be in trouble, like say a lawyer. I always assumed the stipend was optional. No priest has ever asked me for one other than that time.

Priests, if it is proper for Orthodox, would you ask for a stipend or feel it discourteous?

I think it depends on what your circumstances are and what the circumstances of the priest are. When I first moved to university, I attended my city's local Greek Orthodox Archdiocese cathedral, and when I asked if we could have a 12 year mnemosyno/memorial service for my Grandmother, the man who took my info down was quite rude. He told me that it's not customary to have mnemosyna/memorials done past three years, I rather bluntly told him that he's wrong. When he demanded $80 for stari/kollyva/the food given out after the memorial made from wheat kernels, I told him that I was a college student and that I don't even have $80 in my bank account, so he told me "Fine, $35" in a rather put-out voice. Granted, it turns out that they gave me a lot of kollyva to take out (it was one of the biggest plastic baggies that I've ever seen), so my Mother (who paid me a surprise visit) gave them $60, if not the full $80. Meanwhile, at my home parish, nothing is asked, and we get stari, and at my new cathedral at school, nobody asks for money either. It really all depends on a person/parishioner-by-church basis. Good luck!

Wow!   We've had Panikhidas for 38 years or even 50
Years.   If the family wants kolyva they bring their own.  If not, we just have the prayers.  No charge.  We all try to remember the priest and his wife at Christmas with gifts. 
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« Reply #24 on: July 09, 2014, 07:41:14 PM »

"Charging" $35 for kollyva is ridiculous, $80 is is outrageous. I make the stuff regularly, and I know how much time it takes and the cost of ingredients to put it together. It's kollyva, folks, not a wedding cake.  Tongue
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« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2014, 07:45:44 PM »

In my experience, if the priest receives a decent salary from the parish (i.e., something he and his family can actually live on), "gifts" aren't necessary.  If he doesn't receive a salary from the parish, or if it is a pittance, "gifts" may well make the difference. 

That makes sense, thanks.

And I love the quotation marks, they remind me of those radio "donations." "For a donation of $20 or more, you'll receive Pastor Frank's new DVD on how to walk in the footsteps of Jesus!"

Don't get me started.  It's really atrocious how some jurisdictions treat their priests. 

Oh, don't get me started on Catholic Answers and their whole overpaid professional theologian avarice. Seriously, it's not so much the good work they do, but the fact that their upcoming cruise is way more than any working or middle class family can afford. Look at this!

http://www.catholicanswerscruise.com/pricing.htm


I can go on a real cruise in the same place for less.


OC.net cruise...Book now!  Space is limited.

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« Reply #26 on: July 09, 2014, 07:48:59 PM »

THE ARK OF SALVATION
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« Reply #27 on: July 09, 2014, 07:56:38 PM »

THE ARK OF SALVATION

Looks schlocky to me.
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« Reply #28 on: July 09, 2014, 09:30:00 PM »

THE ARK OF SALVATION

That's the Virgin Mary, blasphemer! Co-redemptrix and ark of savlation!
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« Reply #29 on: July 09, 2014, 09:32:58 PM »

IMO, if I am already tithing my 10% in addition to the extra collections the church takes up throughout the year, I shouldn't have to pay for a service.  Something special such as a home blessing, maybe $20 to cover gas as others have said.  But, my family should have to pay the church to have a funeral in the parish I already belonged to?  For what?  Don't even say electricity.

I understand that the guidelines say you can't be turned down due to inability to pay but I don't think it's really necessary to ask for it to begin with.  Maybe the Archdioceses need to take a little less from the parishes and manage the money better.  It stirs up anger in me when I see a clergyman driving a nicer car than I, than asking me for more money.
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« Reply #30 on: July 09, 2014, 09:33:51 PM »

THE ARK OF SALVATION

That's the Virgin Mary, blasphemer! Co-redemptrix and ark of savlation!

Also the name of part of a church building. Probably has other applications too.
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« Reply #31 on: July 09, 2014, 10:47:40 PM »

THE ARK OF SALVATION

Ship of Fools?   
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« Reply #32 on: July 09, 2014, 10:57:57 PM »

THE ARK OF SALVATION

That's the Virgin Mary, blasphemer! Co-redemptrix and ark of savlation!

Speaking of blasphemy.
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« Reply #33 on: July 09, 2014, 11:20:08 PM »

THE ARK OF SALVATION

That's the Virgin Mary, blasphemer! Co-redemptrix and ark of savlation!

Speaking of blasphemy.

You beat me to it. That's one claim (co-redemtrix) that stops even the most ecumenically minded of us dead in our tracks. I would go further and say it is heretical. At least one Roman Catholic commentator agrees with that. "The Mary Heresy: Papal support for Co-Redemptrix?"
Read more at http://www.beliefnet.com/columnists/pontifications/2009/05/the-mary-heresy-papal-support.
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« Reply #34 on: July 10, 2014, 01:22:11 AM »

THE ARK OF SALVATION

That's the Virgin Mary, blasphemer! Co-redemptrix and ark of savlation!

What's "savlation"?
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« Reply #35 on: July 10, 2014, 01:31:02 AM »

He misspelt "salve-lotion." Easy to do.
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« Reply #36 on: July 10, 2014, 01:32:25 AM »

He misspelt "salve-lotion." Easy to do.

An ark of that....that's just too much.
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« Reply #37 on: July 10, 2014, 05:19:40 AM »

THE ARK OF SALVATION

That's the Virgin Mary, blasphemer! Co-redemptrix and ark of salvation!

In fairness, wainscottbl might not have come across the (in)famous schlock icon of that name. If so, he would not know why the posters following his wrote what they did.

This thread should help:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,11209.0/all.html

In particular, this post:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,11209.msg297730.html#msg297730
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« Reply #38 on: July 10, 2014, 07:17:02 PM »

I was joking with the accusation at Mor. I have a problem with the co-redemptrix thing. Co means equal so are they saying that Mary is redeeming equally with Christ? I doubt it, though maybe? I myself never took it to mean equal with Christ. I sort of took it like saying you love a girl more than anything in the whole universe. "More than God?", someone could ask. To which I say, "Oh come on, loser! Don't ruin the moment!" I just take co-redemptrix as using a word that means equal to mean very important in the redemption because of her being the means to salvation--bearing the God-man as Theotokos. But I had a problem with it because it is misleading, even scandalous and pointless to us since Theotokos or God-bearer would be a better term...
« Last Edit: July 10, 2014, 07:17:38 PM by wainscottbl » Logged

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« Reply #39 on: July 10, 2014, 09:11:21 PM »

I was joking with the accusation at Mor. I have a problem with the co-redemptrix thing. Co means equal so are they saying that Mary is redeeming equally with Christ? I doubt it, though maybe? I myself never took it to mean equal with Christ. I sort of took it like saying you love a girl more than anything in the whole universe. "More than God?", someone could ask. To which I say, "Oh come on, loser! Don't ruin the moment!" I just take co-redemptrix as using a word that means equal to mean very important in the redemption because of her being the means to salvation--bearing the God-man as Theotokos. But I had a problem with it because it is misleading, even scandalous and pointless to us since Theotokos or God-bearer would be a better term...


That's a really informative way to put it. Thanks.
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« Reply #40 on: July 10, 2014, 10:50:35 PM »

Wow!   We've had Panikhidas for 38 years or even 50
Years.   If the family wants kolyva they bring their own.  If not, we just have the prayers.  No charge.  We all try to remember the priest and his wife at Christmas with gifts.  

There's no prohibition of praying someone after a certain amount of years, especially a number so arbitrarily chosen like three! It makes no sense, if anything we're encouraged to pray for the dead for as long as we're alive! I hope my old congregation doesn't go around saying "Well gee, Mrs. Diamantidis, y'see, this is your husband's fourth mnimosyno; God has heard enough prayers for him, it's time to move on so that we can have a fresh batch of the deceased to pray for. If you want, we can still give you $80 worth of stari, maybe we take a little bit off for you, give you a special parishioner's discount!" It's one of the reasons I moved to the OCA cathedral down the street and have never looked back.

"Charging" $35 for kollyva is ridiculous, $80 is is outrageous. I make the stuff regularly, and I know how much time it takes and the cost of ingredients to put it together. It's kollyva, folks, not a wedding cake.  Tongue

Finally, someone gets it! My Mom has that Old World Greek charm where if the church (yet not always the Church) says something, then you do it. She was happy to put $60 for it, and we were one of five families that had the mnimosyno!

But hey, you guys think that's bad; one of the nuttier ushers accused my Mother of theft—on the night of the Pascha vigil. He thought she put a $1into the collection plate in the narthex for keria/candles, but she put a $5 and took $3 back. And then he refused to recant! Because my Mom is getting a bit old and set in her ways and thus refused to go to any service not in English/liturgical Greek, we stayed. That is the main reason why I left and became an actual (but non-paying) member of the other cathedral next door.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2014, 10:50:58 PM by KostaC » Logged

«Μὴ μεριμνᾶτε λοιπὸν διὰ τὴν αὔριον, διὀτι ἡ αὐριανὴ ἡμέρα θὰ φροντίσῃ διὰ τὰ δικά της πράγματα. Φθάνει ἡ στεναχώρια τῆς ἡμέρας». Κατά Ματθαίον 6:34

"Bendito seja o que vem em nome do Senhor, o Senhor é Deus e se manifestou a nós."
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« Reply #41 on: July 10, 2014, 10:58:46 PM »

This is starting to seem as though it should be in GOA-OCA Discussion. Wink But really -- rather fascinating stuff.
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« Reply #42 on: July 10, 2014, 11:02:02 PM »

Quote
She was happy to put $60 for it

Still far too much to pay. The ingredients for kollyva are not at all expensive (in my neck of the woods, a 2lb pack of wheat costs less than $1.50, and the cost of the rest of the ingredients are only a few dollars for a packet's worth of wheat. The time and effort to cook it and put it all together isn't onerous or particularly time-consuming, especially if the wheat is cooked in a pressure-cooker. Twenty minutes, and it's done. Another half an hour or so to prepare and assemble the rest of the ingredients, and there it is. No silver candy, no frou-frou required.
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« Reply #43 on: July 10, 2014, 11:02:05 PM »

This is starting to seem as though it should be in GOA-OCA Discussion. Wink But really -- rather fascinating stuff.

Sorry, I just had to say it, as blatantly off topic as it was. I haven't spoken about it in the year and three-odd months since it's happened; nobody I know well enough to tell cares.
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«Μὴ μεριμνᾶτε λοιπὸν διὰ τὴν αὔριον, διὀτι ἡ αὐριανὴ ἡμέρα θὰ φροντίσῃ διὰ τὰ δικά της πράγματα. Φθάνει ἡ στεναχώρια τῆς ἡμέρας». Κατά Ματθαίον 6:34

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« Reply #44 on: July 10, 2014, 11:04:56 PM »

This is starting to seem as though it should be in GOA-OCA Discussion. Wink But really -- rather fascinating stuff.

Sorry, I just had to say it, as blatantly off topic as it was. I haven't spoken about it in the year and three-odd months since it's happened; nobody I know well enough to tell cares.

I wasn't objecting.
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In love did God create the world; in love does he guide it ...; in love is he going wondrously to transform it. --Abba Isaac

Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity. --Climacus
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