Author Topic: Women  (Read 8151 times)

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Offline ialmisry

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Re: Women
« Reply #45 on: July 05, 2014, 01:51:21 PM »
Christ never belittled a woman.  He may have belittled her sin, just as He did the sins of men....but, he never put her down merely for being a female.

Well He sorta did with the Gentile woman by only helping her after she compared herself to a dog.
had she been a Gentile man, it would have been the same.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
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Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Women
« Reply #46 on: July 05, 2014, 03:13:12 PM »
Christ never belittled a woman.  He may have belittled her sin, just as He did the sins of men....but, he never put her down merely for being a female.

Well He sorta did with the Gentile woman by only helping her after she compared herself to a dog.

That was to test her faith and perseverance....not because she was a woman.
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
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Offline john_mo

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Re: Women
« Reply #47 on: July 05, 2014, 03:19:44 PM »
Christ never belittled a woman.  He may have belittled her sin, just as He did the sins of men....but, he never put her down merely for being a female.

Well He sorta did with the Gentile woman by only helping her after she compared herself to a dog.

That was to test her faith and perseverance....not because she was a woman.

True, also even if he was belittling (again, he wasn't), it would have been because she was a gentile, not because she was a woman.
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Offline Branthony

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Re: Women
« Reply #48 on: July 05, 2014, 03:28:29 PM »

You are definitely NOT wrong.

I have no problem with a woman submitting to her husband in a marriage.  

However, I disagree that you are not equal.  She will have her duties as a mother and wife, and you as a husband and father.  In the end those duties, while different, will weigh the same.  

You are equally yoked, to pull the wagon of a family, together.

[/quote]

We are not equal, however even though she is submitting to me, I am the servant, she is my queen. We are not equal, if I am a good husband I will always put her first, there for she is first and I am second. This is the way it should be I think.
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Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Women
« Reply #49 on: July 05, 2014, 03:29:44 PM »

Nonetheless, she will put you first...as all Orthodox are to serve others and not themselves.
Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria

Offline NicholasMyra

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Re: Women
« Reply #50 on: July 05, 2014, 07:37:32 PM »
Ephesians I believe it was. Also Corinthians.
No; in which universal letter of his did he say this?

Quote
The St. John Chrysostom, on Genesis, saying that women were made for men and some other inequality stuff.
Rather, St. John says that this is the result of the Fall, and not how things were supposed to be:

Quote from: St. John Chrysostom, Homilies on Genesis
Your yearning will be for your husband, and he will be your master.

As if to explain his reasons to the woman, the loving God said this, meaning: "In the beginning I created you equal in esteem to your husband, and my intention was that in everything you would share with him as an equal, and as I entrusted control of everything to your husband, so did I to you;

But you abused your equality of status. Hence I subject you to your husband: "Your yearning will be for your husband, and he will be your master." Because you abandoned your equal, who was sharer with you in the same nature and for whom you were created...and since you did not know how to rule, learn well how to be ruled.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2014, 07:38:42 PM by NicholasMyra »
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if Christ does and says x. And someone else does and says not x and you are ever in doubt, follow Christ.

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Offline LBK

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Re: Women
« Reply #51 on: July 05, 2014, 08:27:29 PM »
Forget about equality, just stop talking smack about women all the time.
It's the way that the little boys hiding behind their beards on this forum compensate for the fact they're afraid of women.

It ain't right, it just is.



Many of the little boys here have no beard (literal or metaphorical) to hide behind.  ;)
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Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Women
« Reply #52 on: July 06, 2014, 12:46:07 AM »
I promise not to bother you guys again. Oops, I mean girls. Round these parts we call everyone guys. Probably some nefarious way of hating women without even realising it.

Offline Maria

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Re: Women
« Reply #53 on: July 06, 2014, 12:55:34 AM »
I promise not to bother you guys again. Oops, I mean girls. Round these parts we call everyone guys. Probably some nefarious way of hating women without even realising it.

That is okay. Women are also called dudes and they refer to each other as dudes too. Even though feminist hate the word "man," you can still hear women exclaim, "Oh, man!"
« Last Edit: July 06, 2014, 12:55:46 AM by Maria »
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Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Women
« Reply #54 on: July 06, 2014, 02:02:54 PM »
I promise not to bother you guys again. Oops, I mean girls. Round these parts we call everyone guys. Probably some nefarious way of hating women without even realising it.


That is okay. Women are also called dudes and they refer to each other as dudes too. Even though feminist hate the word "man," you can still hear women exclaim, "Oh, man!"
I often here that a lot from the younger females. Sounds stupid to me, but then again, some of them look, walk and talk like "dudes". So hey, if the shoe fits.

Of course, we males also love to refer to some of the other wymin/men around these parts a certain word meaning female dogs. ;)
Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Women
« Reply #55 on: July 06, 2014, 02:05:10 PM »
Quote
I just wanted to remind all of you, especially the men, that God has created both genders equal.

Equal in dignity perhaps.

But functionally different.
Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Women
« Reply #56 on: July 06, 2014, 02:09:34 PM »
I promise not to bother you guys again. Oops, I mean girls. Round these parts we call everyone guys. Probably some nefarious way of hating women without even realising it.


That is okay. Women are also called dudes and they refer to each other as dudes too. Even though feminist hate the word "man," you can still hear women exclaim, "Oh, man!"
I often here that a lot from the younger females. Sounds stupid to me, but then again, some of them look, walk and talk like "dudes". So hey, if the shoe fits.

Of course, we males also love to refer to some of the other wymin/men around these parts a certain word meaning female dogs. ;)

Don't tempt me to say what we males love to call people like you around these parts. 
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Women
« Reply #57 on: July 06, 2014, 02:09:57 PM »
Quote
I just wanted to remind all of you, especially the men, that God has created both genders equal.

Equal in dignity perhaps.

But functionally different.

Perhaps? 
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

Quote
Bartholomew, 270th Archbishop of Constantinople-New Rome and Ecumenical Patriarch, is spiritual leader to 300 million Orthodox Christians throughout the world.

Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Women
« Reply #58 on: July 06, 2014, 02:10:53 PM »
I promise not to bother you guys again. Oops, I mean girls. Round these parts we call everyone guys. Probably some nefarious way of hating women without even realising it.


That is okay. Women are also called dudes and they refer to each other as dudes too. Even though feminist hate the word "man," you can still hear women exclaim, "Oh, man!"
I often here that a lot from the younger females. Sounds stupid to me, but then again, some of them look, walk and talk like "dudes". So hey, if the shoe fits.

Of course, we males also love to refer to some of the other wymin/men around these parts a certain word meaning female dogs. ;)

Don't tempt me to say what we males love to call people like you around these parts.  
Bring it on ****..I mean mor. 8)



Partially veiled profanity removed  -PtA
« Last Edit: July 08, 2014, 11:03:50 AM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Women
« Reply #59 on: July 06, 2014, 02:11:57 PM »
Quote
I just wanted to remind all of you, especially the men, that God has created both genders equal.

Equal in dignity perhaps.

But functionally different.

Perhaps? 
For you to even question that statement speaks volumes.
Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

Offline Ebor

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Re: Women
« Reply #60 on: July 06, 2014, 02:12:22 PM »
Quote
I just wanted to remind all of you, especially the men, that God has created both genders equal.

Equal in dignity perhaps.

But functionally different.

In what ways besides the biology of reproduction, please?
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Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Women
« Reply #61 on: July 06, 2014, 02:17:37 PM »
Quote
That the Theotokos, through whom, and without whom the incarnate Lord would not have entered this world as a man, and would not have led to your possible salvation, was a woman, greatly loved by Him.

Sancta Maria, Mater Dei!

« Last Edit: July 06, 2014, 02:21:57 PM by Charles Martel »
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Women
« Reply #62 on: July 06, 2014, 02:20:57 PM »
Quote
I just wanted to remind all of you, especially the men, that God has created both genders equal.

Equal in dignity perhaps.

But functionally different.

Perhaps? 
For you to even question that statement speaks volumes.

Which statement do you think I'm questioning?
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

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Bartholomew, 270th Archbishop of Constantinople-New Rome and Ecumenical Patriarch, is spiritual leader to 300 million Orthodox Christians throughout the world.

Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Women
« Reply #63 on: July 06, 2014, 02:26:28 PM »
Quote
I just wanted to remind all of you, especially the men, that God has created both genders equal.

Equal in dignity perhaps.

But functionally different.

In what ways besides the biology of reproduction, please?
Are you saying this is the only difference?
Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Women
« Reply #64 on: July 06, 2014, 02:28:24 PM »
Quote
I just wanted to remind all of you, especially the men, that God has created both genders equal.

Equal in dignity perhaps.

But functionally different.

Perhaps? 
For you to even question that statement speaks volumes.

Which statement do you think I'm questioning?
Neither is questionable.
Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

Offline JamesR

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Re: Women
« Reply #65 on: July 06, 2014, 03:11:45 PM »
You never know what a woman wants nowadays.

If you behave properly according to all that chivalrous stuff my mom indoctrinated me with, they'll hate you and see you as belittling them and upholding an outdated system. If you treat them like crap--er, I mean equals--just like we treat other men, they get mad and consider you to be rude and not a gentleman.

This is why life is simpler being a perpetually single man. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with you women, but I'm too lazy to go through the trouble of acquiring one.
...Or it's just possible he's a mouthy young man on an internet forum.
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Offline The Fool

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Re: Women
« Reply #66 on: July 06, 2014, 03:15:46 PM »
You never know what a woman wants nowadays.

If you behave properly according to all that chivalrous stuff my mom indoctrinated me with, they'll hate you and see you as belittling them and upholding an outdated system. If you treat them like crap--er, I mean equals--just like we treat other men, they get mad and consider you to be rude and not a gentleman.

This is why life is simpler being a perpetually single man. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with you women, but I'm too lazy to go through the trouble of acquiring one.

You'll have changed your mind again in six months.
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Offline Joha

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Re: Women
« Reply #67 on: July 06, 2014, 03:17:34 PM »
You never know what a woman wants nowadays.

If you behave properly according to all that chivalrous stuff my mom indoctrinated me with, they'll hate you and see you as belittling them and upholding an outdated system. If you treat them like crap--er, I mean equals--just like we treat other men, they get mad and consider you to be rude and not a gentleman.

This is why life is simpler being a perpetually single man. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with you women, but I'm too lazy to go through the trouble of acquiring one.

You'll have changed your mind again in six months.

weeks I guess...
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Offline The Fool

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Re: Women
« Reply #68 on: July 06, 2014, 03:20:58 PM »
weeks I guess...

I saw that coming.
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Re: Women
« Reply #69 on: July 06, 2014, 03:26:35 PM »
I'm not saying there's anything wrong with you women, but I'm too lazy to go through the trouble of acquiring one.

Life was simpler when all you needed to marry a woman were six goats.
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Headpiece filled with straw. Alas!"
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Offline Joha

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Re: Women
« Reply #70 on: July 06, 2014, 04:20:10 PM »
I'm not saying there's anything wrong with you women, but I'm too lazy to go through the trouble of acquiring one.

Life was simpler when all you needed to marry a woman were six goats.

Thank God, my girl is worth way more that six goats.

I would value just to marry her at about 7 years of labor... somehow that amount does sound familiar doesn't it. :angel:
Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ
Psalm 57:2 I will cry out to God Most High, To God who performs all things for me.
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Women
« Reply #71 on: July 06, 2014, 04:24:32 PM »
Quote
I just wanted to remind all of you, especially the men, that God has created both genders equal.

Equal in dignity perhaps.

But functionally different.

Perhaps? 
For you to even question that statement speaks volumes.

Which statement do you think I'm questioning?
Neither is questionable.

Then you shouldn't have said "perhaps".  That speaks volumes. 
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

Quote
Bartholomew, 270th Archbishop of Constantinople-New Rome and Ecumenical Patriarch, is spiritual leader to 300 million Orthodox Christians throughout the world.

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Re: Women
« Reply #72 on: July 06, 2014, 04:27:26 PM »
I would value just to marry her at about 7 years of labor... somehow that amount does sound familiar doesn't it. :angel:

Seven years of labour is nothing. Nowadays, in order to have a good marriage, you have to work till you're 67. Even then you'll probably have to do the dishes. Jacob had it easy.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2014, 04:27:50 PM by Cyrillic »
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Offline Joha

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Re: Women
« Reply #73 on: July 06, 2014, 05:02:00 PM »
I would value just to marry her at about 7 years of labor... somehow that amount does sound familiar doesn't it. :angel:

Seven years of labour is nothing. Nowadays, in order to have a good marriage, you have to work till you're 67. Even then you'll probably have to do the dishes. Jacob had it easy.

I'm not revering to the marriage, but just to be able to marry her.

It's true marriages is an every day job. Probably more than just dishes  ;)
Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ
Psalm 57:2 I will cry out to God Most High, To God who performs all things for me.
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Offline Opus118

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Re: Women
« Reply #74 on: July 06, 2014, 05:59:57 PM »
I'm not saying there's anything wrong with you women, but I'm too lazy to go through the trouble of acquiring one.

Life was simpler when all you needed to marry a woman were six goats.

This was an amusing comment years ago, but it grows tiresome.

Depending on how you do it you can get a wife for less than 6 goats. Donating a goat to a community in need (all expenses paid) is $75-$100. Buying a goat of questionable health in said community is $10-20. The average price of a female slave is $70-$80 (the median is almost certainly lower). If you are discriminating, then buy two at $20K a pop and let the second pay off the cost of both. I am sure you can justify it just like you justified the above post in this particular thread.

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Re: Women
« Reply #75 on: July 06, 2014, 06:08:38 PM »
I'm not saying there's anything wrong with you women, but I'm too lazy to go through the trouble of acquiring one.

Life was simpler when all you needed to marry a woman were six goats.
Depending on how you do it you can get a wife for less than 6 goats.

That's true, since you're not supposed to buy wives in the first place.
"We are the hollow men
We are the stuffed men
Leaning together
Headpiece filled with straw. Alas!"
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Offline Opus118

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Re: Women
« Reply #76 on: July 06, 2014, 06:34:31 PM »
I'm not saying there's anything wrong with you women, but I'm too lazy to go through the trouble of acquiring one.

Life was simpler when all you needed to marry a woman were six goats.
Depending on how you do it you can get a wife for less than 6 goats.

That's true, since you're not supposed to buy wives in the first place.

Understood and thanks.

Offline Ebor

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Re: Women
« Reply #77 on: July 06, 2014, 06:59:07 PM »
Quote
I just wanted to remind all of you, especially the men, that God has created both genders equal.

Equal in dignity perhaps.

But functionally different.

In what ways besides the biology of reproduction, please?
Are you saying this is the only difference?

It's a question asking you what you think are "functional differences". 
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Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Women
« Reply #78 on: July 06, 2014, 07:23:45 PM »
Quote
I just wanted to remind all of you, especially the men, that God has created both genders equal.

Equal in dignity perhaps.

But functionally different.

Perhaps? 
For you to even question that statement speaks volumes.

Which statement do you think I'm questioning?
Neither is questionable.

Then you shouldn't have said "perhaps".  That speaks volumes. 
Perhaps.

Perhaps not.

Perhaps I should've expressed it differently to please you.

If it makes you feel any better I believe that both sexes were created equal in dignity, according to the CCC;

Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Women
« Reply #79 on: July 06, 2014, 07:25:18 PM »
Again from the CCC;

1934 Created in the image of the one God and equally endowed with rational souls, all men have the same nature and the same origin.... All therefore enjoy an equal dignity.



I am sure "men" encompasses wo-men as well of course. ;)
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Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Women
« Reply #80 on: July 06, 2014, 07:28:36 PM »
Quote
I just wanted to remind all of you, especially the men, that God has created both genders equal.

Equal in dignity perhaps.

But functionally different.

In what ways besides the biology of reproduction, please?
Are you saying this is the only difference?

It's a question asking you what you think are "functional differences". 
I mean that men are not supposed to take on the functions of women....and vise-versa.

Men have their roles, women have theirs.
Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

Offline Ebor

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Re: Women
« Reply #81 on: July 06, 2014, 07:32:33 PM »
Quote
I just wanted to remind all of you, especially the men, that God has created both genders equal.

Equal in dignity perhaps.

But functionally different.

In what ways besides the biology of reproduction, please?
Are you saying this is the only difference?

It's a question asking you what you think are "functional differences". 
I mean that men are not supposed to take on the functions of women....and vise-versa.

Men have their roles, women have theirs.

What, in your opinion, are those roles, please?  What are the "functions of women" and the "functions of men"?  Are you able to be specific and give examples?
"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

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Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Women
« Reply #82 on: July 06, 2014, 07:42:53 PM »
It's easy, you know roles like mother, wife , nurturer and all that.

Is this hard to understand? Or is it your intention to undermine what God and nature has pre-determined in the differences of the sexes?
Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

Offline Ebor

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Re: Women
« Reply #83 on: July 06, 2014, 08:05:27 PM »
It's easy, you know roles like mother, wife , nurturer and all that.

Is this hard to understand? Or is it your intention to undermine what God and nature has pre-determined in the differences of the sexes?

Since one ought not to either assume what another person thinks, but ask him/her so that there is clear understanding, nor tell someone else what they mean, my intention in asking you that question is in order to have a better understanding of your meaning in your assertion.

You have given some general terms. Thank you. What of specifics, please?  What are the "roles" of men in your opinion that women should not do as opposed to what cannot be done such as being a father or husband?
"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

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Offline Opus118

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Re: Women
« Reply #84 on: July 06, 2014, 08:07:03 PM »
Quote
I just wanted to remind all of you, especially the men, that God has created both genders equal.

Equal in dignity perhaps.

But functionally different.

In what ways besides the biology of reproduction, please?
Are you saying this is the only difference?

It's a question asking you what you think are "functional differences". 
I mean that men are not supposed to take on the functions of women....and vise-versa.

Men have their roles, women have theirs.

This is pretty cool Martel! I have never run into a Proto-Roman Catholic before. So if your wife died during childbirth, you would get yourself a she-wolf rather than use a baby bottle.

Offline Punch

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Re: Women
« Reply #85 on: July 06, 2014, 10:04:04 PM »
It's easy, you know roles like mother, wife , nurturer and all that.

Is this hard to understand? Or is it your intention to undermine what God and nature has pre-determined in the differences of the sexes?

Father - Support the family (housing, food), priest of the Family (ensure they know God), defender of the family, assist the woman when she cannot fulfill her functions.

Mother - Nurture the family, educate the family, instill values into the children, assist the man when he cannot fulfill his functions.

This is what I was taught by my father and mother, married 54 years until the death of my father.  This is what my wife and I have taught our children, and we have been married 33 years.
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline Keble

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Re: Women
« Reply #86 on: July 06, 2014, 10:09:18 PM »
It's easy, you know roles like mother, wife , nurturer and all that.

Is this hard to understand? Or is it your intention to undermine what God and nature has pre-determined in the differences of the sexes?

Rosie sneers at you.


Seriously: does your wife work? Did your wife work? Have you ever married? It's depressingly familiar how many of the man-children here who have no track record of getting all the way to home plate in the marital game and have no progeny to their names are somehow full of wisdom on this.

Offline Punch

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Re: Women
« Reply #87 on: July 06, 2014, 11:31:00 PM »
It's easy, you know roles like mother, wife , nurturer and all that.

Is this hard to understand? Or is it your intention to undermine what God and nature has pre-determined in the differences of the sexes?

Rosie sneers at you.


Seriously: does your wife work? Did your wife work? Have you ever married? It's depressingly familiar how many of the man-children here who have no track record of getting all the way to home plate in the marital game and have no progeny to their names are somehow full of wisdom on this.


My wife did not have to work when she was raising our children.  I did my job as the husband and worked enough to make the ends meet on my income.  She started working once the kids were in school and did not need her at home.  She works in the schools btw.  I hope that is good enough employment to satisfy you.
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline Opus118

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Re: Women
« Reply #88 on: July 07, 2014, 12:25:14 AM »
It's easy, you know roles like mother, wife , nurturer and all that.

Is this hard to understand? Or is it your intention to undermine what God and nature has pre-determined in the differences of the sexes?

Rosie sneers at you.


Seriously: does your wife work? Did your wife work? Have you ever married? It's depressingly familiar how many of the man-children here who have no track record of getting all the way to home plate in the marital game and have no progeny to their names are somehow full of wisdom on this.


My wife did not have to work when she was raising our children.  I did my job as the husband and worked enough to make the ends meet on my income.  She started working once the kids were in school and did not need her at home.  She works in the schools btw.  I hope that is good enough employment to satisfy you.

Why are you nit-picking this when the picture drives validity of the point?

Offline Keble

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Re: Women
« Reply #89 on: July 07, 2014, 01:35:48 PM »
You know, if any of you actually read some of the material, you might learn something. It isn't as though all those women whom you so blithely dismiss didn't write anything about their sufferings under the kind of thinking you so long for. A woman of intelligence must be reduced to washing and cleaning and feeding, and die of boredom and frustration; or else remain a spinster. A woman whose husband has abandoned her is stuck with "woman's work", which is to say, industrial or clerical scutwork, because some "theologian" or other great "thinker" insists that to allow her to work to her actual ability is somehow beneath her "dignity". It should be recalled that industrialization began not at the forge or the lathe, but at the spinning wheel and the loom, and that those first employed were women.

You guys have the empathy of stone, and never mind the great numbers of you who have never married and procreated and thus do not yet have any skin in this game. It's hardly a surprise, given the ageless prevalence of your views, that there is feminism, and that so many feminists are so angry. You deserve their ire; you could be the very clods referred to in Dorothy Sayers's famous address, "Are Women Human?": "There has never been any question by that the women of the poor should toil alongside their men.  No angry, and no compassionate, voice has been raised to say that women should not break their backs with harvest work, or soil their hands with blacking grates and peeling potatoes.  The objection is only to work that is pleasant, exciting or profitable—the work that any human being might think it worth while to do."

There is plenty more where that came from. I am sure that there are women who, in some sense of the word, delighted in having seven or ten or seventeen kids, but even back in the more traditional sixties my mother was practically the only one in the neighborhood who did not all but lock the kids out of the house until they were old enough to be issued a latchkey, so that mom could get out of the house and back to work; and part of the reason my mother didn't do likewise was that the only work she could get was from her perspective no better than what she was doing at home. But eventually she did return to work, because our finances demanded it, for which her reward (besides the pay and the schooling it paid for) was a case of TB. She did not count herself a feminist, because she found those upper-middle-class women grating; but she did not take seriously the idiot notion that a man's opinion and rule were superior simply by virtue of his chromosomes.

It is particularly irritating to see teenage boys posting this nonsense. Perhaps the day will come when you get an apartment or a room in a house, and you will have to do your mom's old scutwork because there's nobody else to do it. Perhaps you can postpone having to do dishes by eating at McDs all the time or by relying on microwaveable dinners and ramen cups, but you'll still need to make the beds and sweep the floors and do the laundry. I tend to do the laundry at our house still, because my mother, the old Dutch cleanser, even sorted the pastels by color, and while I'm not that extreme I still am bound to her standards, and it's not beneath my dignity to do the wash. Eventually if you do manage to breed there will be the question of who changes the diapers and who the kid throws up on. And it strikes me that you feel (though you do not realize it) that your ten hour day (adding a hour of driving and for lunch) is the equal of your wife's eighteen hours (giving her six for some highly interrupted sleep). And it doesn't occur to you that she might have some interests that don't involve soap, food, or dirt.