Author Topic: Women  (Read 23717 times)

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Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Women
« Reply #135 on: July 07, 2014, 08:56:05 PM »
It's easy, you know roles like mother, wife , nurturer and all that.

Is this hard to understand? Or is it your intention to undermine what God and nature has pre-determined in the differences of the sexes?

Rosie sneers at you.


Seriously: does your wife work? Did your wife work? Have you ever married? It's depressingly familiar how many of the man-children here who have no track record of getting all the way to home plate in the marital game and have no progeny to their names are somehow full of wisdom on this.

Yes, my wife works now. But she didn't for many years because she believed in being at home and raising her children instead of playing PART TIME MOTHER or cathy career-chick somewhere so she could be more "fulfilled" then just being a dreary stay at home mom.

I've been in the marriage and raising children for many years, so spare me your preaching on the single and childless pontificating to those out there actually slugging it out day after day in the real world.

speaking of the real world, that "rosie the riveter" pic  is pure propaganda, I actually do physical work like that and I have yet to see a women keep up with me or any other normal man on the job. Why do you think the state "mandates" that employers HAVE to hire them, you don't think it's because of their production do you? Nope, more liberal drivel nonsense.

Dear sir,

I call BS on your available knowledge.

http://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-c1-rosie-riveter-20130918-dto-htmlstory.html

Come back when you are 93 and still doing blue collar labor.  I might be inclined to listen to you then.
I won't make it until 93 if they keep sending useless women to my jobs and I have to work three times as hard to make up for them. that's why that old broad lived so long, all the men that carried her for years died off from exhaustion picking up her slack.

Yea, many are not going to like what I have to say on this issue, but I'm sick of this delusional'sexism" in the workplace nonsense.

If women can carry their wait, no problem. But I haven't met a one that could yet, someone always has to come over and bail them out.

But hey, you HAVE TO  hire them. It's Da Law. ::)
Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

Offline Theophania

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Re: Women
« Reply #136 on: July 07, 2014, 08:56:22 PM »
This thread has completely devolved from its original purpose.  ::)
It's common knowledge that you secretly want to be born in early 17th century Russia.  As a serf or a royal, I know not.  Chances are serf.

Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: Women
« Reply #137 on: July 07, 2014, 08:57:05 PM »
That's when they're not out right whoring themselves out to them first.

Speaking of combat, don't think that little kickboxing/hot-yoga class is going to help you stop the 260 pound savage who's been pounding weights in the joint for the last three years when he meets you in that dark alley or unlit parking lot.

Again,there's the diffrerence in the biology of the sexes as opposed to the fantisizing of the Left with their "science" of women are tougher than men or the rosie the riveter fanclub. The truth is, they're are just some facts that you can't deny in this world.

Realty's a bi.....eh, you know what i mean.

Well now I know you're (determined to pose as) a hateful son of a skunk-cabbage with no ability to absorb anything besides your own toxins. Thank you for making plain on whom I should not be wasting time typing.


Fairly sure it's not posing.  


May the good Lord have mercy on every female who had to tolerate him and those like him..
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Online Mor Ephrem

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Re: Women
« Reply #138 on: July 07, 2014, 08:58:08 PM »
This thread has completely devolved from its original purpose.  ::)

That's Charles Martel. 
 
Next: Jews.
Mor Ephrem is a nice guy.  Just say sorry and it will all be ok. Say I had things that were inside troubling me but I didn't know how to express appropriately. I will not behave that way again but I am seeking help.

thank you so much Mor ephrem you are a hero!

Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: Women
« Reply #139 on: July 07, 2014, 08:58:16 PM »
This thread has completely devolved from its original purpose.  ::)


Of course.  Because simply saying 'maybe we shouldn't post crap about women here' is above the English reading level of the target audience
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Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Women
« Reply #140 on: July 07, 2014, 08:59:03 PM »
There's too much difference in the physical, mental, emotional stature between the sexes ...

Well, I'm with you there.

Where were you when your wife was giving birth? When your mother was putting up with you? Where were you when the your elementary school history class covered pioneer women? Where were you when the overwhelming number of scientific reports emerged, since away back in the '70s, not to mention in just the last few years, showing women's bodies endure more, process pain better, and are more efficient mechanically and chemically? Where were you when girls outdid boys in school on every metric? And, lastly, where were you when the priest and faithful praised the Theotokos every year and every week and every day in the most certain terms?

And what do you get out of this braggart posture toward coworkers, wife, daughters, passersby? What is the rush it gives you that is more valuable than honest relations and sincere synergy and life-giving humility before God and Mother of God? (What could be more valuable than that?)
You're proving my point sharp-guy. I already stated what women's roles are and how we're functionally different.

Go back and read the thread.
Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Women
« Reply #141 on: July 07, 2014, 09:11:14 PM »
That's when they're not out right whoring themselves out to them first.

Speaking of combat, don't think that little kickboxing/hot-yoga class is going to help you stop the 260 pound savage who's been pounding weights in the joint for the last three years when he meets you in that dark alley or unlit parking lot.

Again,there's the diffrerence in the biology of the sexes as opposed to the fantisizing of the Left with their "science" of women are tougher than men or the rosie the riveter fanclub. The truth is, they're are just some facts that you can't deny in this world.

Realty's a bi.....eh, you know what i mean.

Well now I know you're (determined to pose as) a hateful son of a skunk-cabbage with no ability to absorb anything besides your own toxins. Thank you for making plain on whom I should not be wasting time typing.
Son of a skunk-cabbage? Man that hurtz. (sniff-sniff).

At any rate, see ya, time to cut and run now.

Man, this forum kills me sometimes, the minute you start touching on any kind of reality, the she-males on here accusse you of being a "hater". I just want someone on here to prove to me what i said anything that's "hateful" in anyway.

Alright, the hateful, son-of-a skunkcabbage, braggart has had enough tonite. He's got to go in his cave and get his beauty rest so he can go carry rosie the "rivi-tah" all day at work because the big bad gubbamint man said she is "mandated" to be there.

Wymins, they're soo tough these days  and can do anything a manz can do better. Why, they're the new men.Lol!
Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Women
« Reply #142 on: July 07, 2014, 09:13:36 PM »
This thread has completely devolved from its original purpose.  ::)

That's Charles Martel. 
 
Next: Jews.
Why's it always come down to jooz with you Mor?

Are you obsessed with them?
Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.

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Re: Women
« Reply #143 on: July 07, 2014, 09:16:47 PM »
This thread has completely devolved from its original purpose.  ::)

That's Charles Martel. 
 
Next: Jews.
Why's it always come down to jooz with you Mor?

Are you obsessed with them?

Oh Charles.  You're the reason why the Caliphate should rule the world and destroy the US. 
Mor Ephrem is a nice guy.  Just say sorry and it will all be ok. Say I had things that were inside troubling me but I didn't know how to express appropriately. I will not behave that way again but I am seeking help.

thank you so much Mor ephrem you are a hero!

Offline ZealousZeal

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Re: Women
« Reply #144 on: July 07, 2014, 09:23:59 PM »
And then there's that little once a month thing that comes along and totally sacks their abilities.

LOL. An exposition on menstruation from Charles Martel. What a treat for us all!
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Online Mor Ephrem

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Re: Women
« Reply #145 on: July 07, 2014, 09:26:09 PM »
And then there's that little once a month thing that comes along and totally sacks their abilities.

LOL. An exposition on menstruation from Charles Martel. What a treat for us all!

He's an expert at bloody discharge.
Mor Ephrem is a nice guy.  Just say sorry and it will all be ok. Say I had things that were inside troubling me but I didn't know how to express appropriately. I will not behave that way again but I am seeking help.

thank you so much Mor ephrem you are a hero!

Offline Punch

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Re: Women
« Reply #146 on: July 07, 2014, 09:31:12 PM »
Better point, then, is, Charles, that women are much more capable of physical and psychological endurance than men are. If you haven't learned this scientific fact from your own observation yet, then either you know few women or you are blind to those you know -- and in either case, you're sadly deprived.

I read that a lot.  Unfortunately, I have not seen it in my 38 years (starting at 15) in the working world.  In fact, I have seen quite the opposite.  And in the last 15 years or so, I have worked around an increasing number of women.  Maybe heavy industry (aircraft maintenance, engine overhaul, powerplants) are exceptions. I find the psychological endurance particularly laughable.
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline Punch

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Re: Women
« Reply #147 on: July 07, 2014, 09:31:50 PM »
This thread has completely devolved from its original purpose.  ::)


Of course.  Because simply saying 'maybe we shouldn't post crap about women here' is above the English reading level of the target audience

You have a very good point there.
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline Luke

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Re: Women
« Reply #148 on: July 07, 2014, 09:36:49 PM »
This thread has completely devolved from its original purpose.  ::)
+

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Women
« Reply #149 on: July 07, 2014, 09:39:10 PM »
Better point, then, is, Charles, that women are much more capable of physical and psychological endurance than men are. If you haven't learned this scientific fact from your own observation yet, then either you know few women or you are blind to those you know -- and in either case, you're sadly deprived.

I read that a lot.  Unfortunately, I have not seen it in my 38 years (starting at 15) in the working world.  In fact, I have seen quite the opposite.  And in the last 15 years or so, I have worked around an increasing number of women.  Maybe heavy industry (aircraft maintenance, engine overhaul, powerplants) are exceptions. I find the psychological endurance particularly laughable.

Gosh, Punch, I expected better from you. Although partly we may be talking in different terms. For example, do you see tears as weakness? Because tears seems to be one excellent example of the ways women are able to endure more than men. As to heavy industry -- yeah, I don't know what's involved nowadays -- I'd've thought OSHA made sure most of it is child's-play -- but I agree men epitomized are clearly better-suited to heavy physical labor than women epitomized.

Anyway, I'd ask you a question: What in your wife, mother, nurses, or other women around you have you learned to admire?

For myself, my wife's endurance in sickness, childbirth, with the children and many other ways makes me look utterly incapable by comparison. In addition, I worked for about a year in the nursing industry, and what most of those women undertook was work that would break most men.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Women
« Reply #150 on: July 07, 2014, 09:43:37 PM »
My feeling about many of the posters in this thread, especially the (evidently) younger ones, is that they are unable to grapple with the fact that women are -- just people -- people with stubbornly different experience and culture than they -- yet people just like themselves. This fact is too much work and too mundane for their grandiose minds*.


* As my younger self would know.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

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Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Theophania

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Re: Women
« Reply #151 on: July 07, 2014, 09:47:46 PM »
My feeling about many of the posters in this thread, especially the (evidently) younger ones, is that they are unable to grapple with the fact that women are -- just people -- people with stubbornly different experience and culture than they -- yet people just like themselves. This fact is too much work and too mundane for their grandiose minds*.


* As my younger self would know.

do you have your period, Porter?
It's common knowledge that you secretly want to be born in early 17th century Russia.  As a serf or a royal, I know not.  Chances are serf.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Women
« Reply #152 on: July 07, 2014, 09:49:51 PM »
My feeling about many of the posters in this thread, especially the (evidently) younger ones, is that they are unable to grapple with the fact that women are -- just people -- people with stubbornly different experience and culture than they -- yet people just like themselves. This fact is too much work and too mundane for their grandiose minds*.


* As my younger self would know.

do you have your period, Porter?

Funny. :)

A sacrament to which I'll never have access, friend.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

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Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Women
« Reply #153 on: July 07, 2014, 09:50:40 PM »
Which reminds me, Kelly, of something I've had to explain to my wife -- that men, emotionally, are always on the rag, never winning monthly relief.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

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Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline minasoliman

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Re: Women
« Reply #154 on: July 07, 2014, 09:51:22 PM »
And then there's that little once a month thing that comes along and totally sacks their abilities.

Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline Keble

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Re: Women
« Reply #155 on: July 07, 2014, 10:00:08 PM »
There's too much difference in the physical, mental, emotional stature between the sexes, regardless what your affrimative action masters lie to you about. And then there's that little once a month thing that comes along and totally sacks their abilities.

 ::)  ::)  ::)

It is SO tiring to be subjected to these tired old cliches. My wife spent some years clambering all over the ships in the Philly naval yard installing and repairing fire control electronics. She got the high score on the math test, by the way.

Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: Women
« Reply #156 on: July 07, 2014, 10:05:16 PM »
Oooh, rape. You're feeling big and bad now.

Charles, did you know men rape men, too?

And men right here at home put women in rape rooms too.....no combat required first. 
That's when they're not out right whoring themselves out to them first.




That how your wife found the gem that is you, then?
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Offline Keble

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Re: Women
« Reply #157 on: July 07, 2014, 10:06:02 PM »
Tell me, old man, have you ever debunked something, is it just your delusions of grandeur or is it senility kicking in? I find it hard to believe that you ever debunked something. If you ever did, you didn't demonstrate it on this forum.

Next time, do the research before you start tossing claims like that around.

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I just disliked the author's unnecessary harshness towards farmers and her petulant upper-middle-class whining about oppression. Read in it whatever else you want, but that's all.

...which is exactly how you didn't understand it.

Offline Punch

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Re: Women
« Reply #158 on: July 07, 2014, 11:14:45 PM »
Better point, then, is, Charles, that women are much more capable of physical and psychological endurance than men are. If you haven't learned this scientific fact from your own observation yet, then either you know few women or you are blind to those you know -- and in either case, you're sadly deprived.

I read that a lot.  Unfortunately, I have not seen it in my 38 years (starting at 15) in the working world.  In fact, I have seen quite the opposite.  And in the last 15 years or so, I have worked around an increasing number of women.  Maybe heavy industry (aircraft maintenance, engine overhaul, powerplants) are exceptions. I find the psychological endurance particularly laughable.

Gosh, Punch, I expected better from you. Although partly we may be talking in different terms. For example, do you see tears as weakness? Because tears seems to be one excellent example of the ways women are able to endure more than men. As to heavy industry -- yeah, I don't know what's involved nowadays -- I'd've thought OSHA made sure most of it is child's-play -- but I agree men epitomized are clearly better-suited to heavy physical labor than women epitomized.

Anyway, I'd ask you a question: What in your wife, mother, nurses, or other women around you have you learned to admire?

For myself, my wife's endurance in sickness, childbirth, with the children and many other ways makes me look utterly incapable by comparison. In addition, I worked for about a year in the nursing industry, and what most of those women undertook was work that would break most men.

Expected better?  What are you, one of these effeminate male white knights that thinks even an observation is misogynic? Tears? Give me a break.  I am talking about having to explain to a woman that she does not need a "kudo" for doing what she is paid to do.  I never needed to do that to a man.  I am talking about having to listen to endless whining because the temperature in the work area is two degrees warmer than it was yesterday.  I am talking about having to listen to ten minutes of whining about how bad a boss is treating her and having her tell me not to file a grievance because "she does not want to make the boss mad".  And you know what I found out?  Due to a problem at home that was on the bosses mind, he didn't say hello like he normally does, so now he supposedly hates this woman.  I am talking about the backbiting and gossip that just about keeps anything from getting done in one of our departments, and we can't do a darn thing about it because management is afraid that they will get sued if they fire the cow that is causing it all.  Tears? Personal attack removed. There are more to emotions (and hormones) than tears.  I can actually put up with the tears.

Your previous comment had nothing to do with whether or not there are women that I admire. It was cutting down anyone that did not share your emasculated white knight view of women. It was the tired old BS about "women's greater stamina" and some worthless junk about better psychological ability.  Don't project your inadequacies as a man on the rest of us.  There is a lot that I admire in women.  Trying to be men is not one of the things that I admire.  Regardless of the exceptions that I listed above (which I do not believe are as much a defect in women as I do that affirmative action has made it difficult to get rid of the ones that are worthless), there is much about my women co-workers to admire.  MOST are hard working and very task oriented.  MOST are far less likely to be wasting time on BSing rather than working.  I would much rather have lunch with the women in my department because women seem to be able to discuss rather interesting things without having to continuously bring politics or sports into the conversation.  I have found MOST of our women Engineers to be harder working and sometimes smarter than most of our male Engineers - experience and education being equal. However, I have found that I have to be more careful around MOST of them so that their feelings do not get hurt.   This is just coworkers.  I won't even get into the women in Church, some like Liza on this forum who, if all women were like her, I would start genocide against men.  Likewise with my wife and my mother.  Both are model examples of what I consider a real woman to be.  And give me a break about the nursing.  I have a ton of health issues and I have spent my share of time around nurses and doctors.  I have liked every woman doctor that I have had, and the nurses that I have dealt with were very good.  However, they were no better or tougher than the ex-military male medics that I have had as nurses who were every bit as capable as the women, not to mention stronger, which came in handy when they are moving around my bulk. Would I rather have a woman around me when I am hurting?  In most cases, yes.  There is something comforting about being around women in that situation.  Do I want to be around women when a life of death situation needs to be decided right now based on the facts?  Well, not so much - in my experience.  Not that this means that I believe that men cannot be comforting or that women can't make quick accurate decisions without stumbling over their emotions.  I don't believe that.  However, my experiences give me a different comfort level in each case - particularly if I do not know the person.

You made a lot of assumptions.  They were wrong.  I have been around REAL women, and there are few things more valuable to me.  There is a real strength there that is different than a man's.  There is an intelligence there that is different than a man's.  There is an aura there that is different than a man's.  There is a way of thinking that is different than a man's, and I find that particularly valuable in my line of work.  Basically, they are strong in nearly every way that I am lacking.  That is why God made them, because we men were not perfect on our own.  And that is why Eve was made later.  Because in God's wisdom, he knew that we needed to figure that out on our own.  I also like to be around REAL men, not the emasculated piles of dung that seem to pass for men these days.  The problem is that I have not found that many good examples of either in my life.  That is why I hold those that I do find as very precious (a particular trait that our company psychologist picked up on).  What I don't care for are the cute little sayings try to make one gender look better than the other.  They are both fallen, and it makes little difference to us today as to which one fell first.  As to the OP, I'll say what I tell the people at work.  There is shop talk, and if you can't deal with it, it is your problem.  On the other hand, if the talk is demeaning to a certain group and they tell you to stop, do so.  Any further talk along those lines afterwards is harassment, and I don't defend those people when the company comes after them.  They are on their own.
 Because of an ad hominem attack in this post and for a semi-hidden profanity later in this thread, you are being given a warning that will last 40 days.

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« Last Edit: July 11, 2014, 10:10:21 AM by Pravoslavbob »
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Women
« Reply #159 on: July 08, 2014, 12:43:17 AM »
Tears was merely an example. Of course, female culture has a whole other way of relating and reacting than male does. You've added more examples than I could have come up with. My point, however, is that these ways, so foreign to us, allow women to cope with things well overall.

Quote
... there is much about my women co-workers to admire.  MOST are hard working and very task oriented.  MOST are far less likely to be wasting time on BSing rather than working.  I would much rather have lunch with the women in my department because women seem to be able to discuss rather interesting things without having to continuously bring politics or sports into the conversation.  I have found MOST of our women Engineers to be harder working and sometimes smarter than most of our male Engineers - experience and education being equal. However, I have found that I have to be more careful around MOST of them so that their feelings do not get hurt.   This is just coworkers.  I won't even get into the women in Church, some like Liza on this forum who, if all women were like her, I would start genocide against men.  Likewise with my wife and my mother.  Both are model examples of what I consider a real woman to be.  And give me a break about the nursing.  I have a ton of health issues and I have spent my share of time around nurses and doctors.  I have liked every woman doctor that I have had, and the nurses that I have dealt with were very good.  However, they were no better or tougher than the ex-military male medics that I have had as nurses who were every bit as capable as the women, not to mention stronger, which came in handy when they are moving around my bulk. Would I rather have a woman around me when I am hurting?  In most cases, yes.  There is something comforting about being around women in that situation.

This is all quite wonderful, and just the kind of thing to lift spirits around here.

Quote
I have been around REAL women, and there are few things more valuable to me.  There is a real strength there that is different than a man's.  There is an intelligence there that is different than a man's.  There is an aura there that is different than a man's.  There is a way of thinking that is different than a man's, and I find that particularly valuable in my line of work.  Basically, they are strong in nearly every way that I am lacking.  That is why God made them, because we men were not perfect on our own.

Better and better, and spoken like a true man.
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Offline LBK

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Re: Women
« Reply #160 on: July 08, 2014, 01:06:14 AM »
Whenever I come across males who loudly and stridently go on about how women are inherently weaker, more unstable, etc, than men, I'm always reminded of the events at the Crucifixion: all but one of the male disciples, chosen by Christ Himself, and including Peter, had scattered and fled in fear and terror. It was the women, and the youngest disciple, in all likelihood still a teenager, who had the guts, strength and determination to stay and keep vigil, even though it was the worst and most painful experience of their lives. Their reward was to be the first to see the risen Christ, to be the first to proclaim the Good News, and to eventually be with Him as His saints in heaven.

Some of the spiritual descendants of these humble but indomitable women are the mami and babushki of the Soviet period, who made sure the books and icons were hidden, the babies were baptised, the faith was taught, at fearsome danger to themselves and their loved ones. Yet they did what was right, including standing up to many a komissar. Do not insult their memory, nor their efforts, by assertions of "weakness" and "instability". Many of us know such women, and have heard their stories. May we all be humbled by their sterling efforts.

For those on this forum of the ilk of Charles Martel and Punch, let this be food for thought.
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Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Women
« Reply #161 on: July 08, 2014, 02:30:02 AM »
My feeling about many of the posters in this thread, especially the (evidently) younger ones, is that they are unable to grapple with the fact that women are -- just people -- people with stubbornly different experience and culture than they -- yet people just like themselves. This fact is too much work and too mundane for their grandiose minds*.


* As my younger self would know.

To be clear, I don't have anything against women or their ambitions. What I do dislike is the nonsensical feminist rhetoric that women were the primary victims of war, that there was a male conspiracy to keep women illiterate when 99,99% of men were illiterate as well or that rich ladies were somehow oppressed by (or more oppressed than) poor men who were barely able to own some trousers. Anyone who has ever so much as even peeked into a history book should take objection to those ludicrous claims. This has nothing to do with believing that women are somehow less in dignity than men, but it has everything to do with believing that feminists are silly, mendacious propagandists making nonsense up as they go along.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2014, 02:45:25 AM by Cyrillic »

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Women
« Reply #162 on: July 08, 2014, 02:37:43 AM »
My feeling about many of the posters in this thread, especially the (evidently) younger ones, is that they are unable to grapple with the fact that women are -- just people -- people with stubbornly different experience and culture than they -- yet people just like themselves. This fact is too much work and too mundane for their grandiose minds*.


* As my younger self would know.

To be clear, I don't have anything against women or their ambitions. What I do dislike is the nonsensical feminist rhetoric like that women were the primary victims of war, that there was a male conspiracy to keep women illiterate while 99,99% of men were illiterate as well or that rich ladies were somehow oppressed by (or more oppressed than) poor men who were barely able to own some trousers. Stuff like that is distateful.

I don't have a dog in that fight.

Maybe this is as good a time as any -- seeing what the thread's become -- to admit how difficult it is to be a boy or man. I'm not talking about oppression or abuse here, but about confusion, emotional desperation, and hopelessness. Men do not have a good idea of how to be or how to relate to others, anymore, and very little active hope for life to become better in future. Stoicism and braggadocio are bravely covering up a situation that deserves pity.
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Re: Women
« Reply #163 on: July 08, 2014, 03:01:04 AM »
Whenever I come across males who loudly and stridently go on about how women are inherently weaker, more unstable, etc, than men.

I'd be surprised if men could survive the same amount of pain that women do in childbirth. Apparantly they're so tough some even want to repeat it.

My feeling about many of the posters in this thread, especially the (evidently) younger ones, is that they are unable to grapple with the fact that women are -- just people -- people with stubbornly different experience and culture than they -- yet people just like themselves. This fact is too much work and too mundane for their grandiose minds*.


* As my younger self would know.

To be clear, I don't have anything against women or their ambitions. What I do dislike is the nonsensical feminist rhetoric that women were the primary victims of war, that there was a male conspiracy to keep women illiterate when 99,99% of men were illiterate as well or that rich ladies were somehow oppressed by (or more oppressed than) poor men who were barely able to own some trousers. Anyone who has ever so much as even peeked into a history book should take objection to those ludicrous claims. This has nothing to do with believing that women are somehow less in dignity than men, but it has everything to do with believing that feminists are silly, mendacious propagandists making nonsense up as they go along.

I don't have a dog in that fight.

Me neither, but nonsense annoys me wherever it comes from. Nonsense disproportionally originates from feminist ideologues. You shouldn't immediately assume that people who don't buy into the feminist rhetoric (i.e. everyone who hasn't outsourced his thinking) are misogynistic.

There is a lot that I admire in women.  Trying to be men is not one of the things that I admire.

+1
« Last Edit: July 08, 2014, 03:15:08 AM by Cyrillic »

Offline JamesR

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Re: Women
« Reply #164 on: July 08, 2014, 05:22:28 AM »
Whenever I come across males who loudly and stridently go on about how women are inherently weaker, more unstable, etc, than men, I'm always reminded of the events at the Crucifixion: all but one of the male disciples, chosen by Christ Himself, and including Peter, had scattered and fled in fear and terror. It was the women, and the youngest disciple, in all likelihood still a teenager, who had the guts, strength and determination to stay and keep vigil, even though it was the worst and most painful experience of their lives. Their reward was to be the first to see the risen Christ, to be the first to proclaim the Good News, and to eventually be with Him as His saints in heaven.

Maybe the fleeing of those males was for the greater good. Imagine if the rest of the disciples hadn't fled and perhaps they were martyred or something. Who would have spread Christianity? If St. Peter hadn't denied Christ, he could have been crucified with Him before ever beginning his missionary activity. I don't see their fleeing as weakness as much as I see it as prioritizing for the greater good. As Punch said, maybe men and women are different. Maybe the men didn't need the emotional, existential, feelings-y thing of keeping vigil and being the first to see Christ. Maybe they needed to protect their own lives for the greater good. As the eldest child in my family, this is something I've long ago learned. We don't often get to share in the same innocent bliss as the rest of the crowd--we're working in the sidelines and/or making sacrifices for the greater good. The older son in the Prodigal Son story seemed to epitomize this concept in that he never needed his own banquet (because he had never been dead and alive again like the younger one) but enjoyed a different relationship with the father. So again, perhaps it isn't superiority on either side as much as it is prioritization and fulfilling assigned roles.

Quote
Some of the spiritual descendants of these humble but indomitable women are the mami and babushki of the Soviet period, who made sure the books and icons were hidden, the babies were baptised, the faith was taught, at fearsome danger to themselves and their loved ones. Yet they did what was right, including standing up to many a komissar. Do not insult their memory, nor their efforts, by assertions of "weakness" and "instability". Many of us know such women, and have heard their stories. May we all be humbled by their sterling efforts.

I'd also bring up the brave men who distributed the Holy Mysteries such as Baptism and the Eucharist via the Priesthood, who, without their efforts, the efforts of these women would have been in vain.

Quote
For those on this forum of the ilk of Charles Martel and Punch, let this be food for thought.

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Offline Arachne

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Re: Women
« Reply #165 on: July 08, 2014, 06:21:24 AM »
Speaking of combat, don't think that little kickboxing/hot-yoga class is going to help you stop the 260 pound savage who's been pounding weights in the joint for the last three years when he meets you in that dark alley or unlit parking lot.

This only shows that a) you have no idea what is taught in women's self-defence classes, and b) you still buy into a whole bunch of myths about rape.
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Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Women
« Reply #166 on: July 08, 2014, 06:38:28 AM »
Speaking of combat, don't think that little kickboxing/hot-yoga class is going to help you stop the 260 pound savage who's been pounding weights in the joint for the last three years when he meets you in that dark alley or unlit parking lot.

This only shows that a) you have no idea what is taught in women's self-defence classes, and b) you still buy into a whole bunch of myths about rape.

From that url:

Quote
Myth: Women cannot rape other women

Fact:  Only a man can commit the offence of Rape [Sec 1 (1) SOA 2003] as the penetration has to be with a penis. However, both women and men may experience rape. If the penetration is with something other than a penis, then the offence is assault by penetration. See Rape and the Law section.

Oh, Britain.

*rolls eyes*
« Last Edit: July 08, 2014, 06:42:08 AM by Cyrillic »

Offline Dan-Romania

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Re: Women
« Reply #167 on: July 08, 2014, 06:44:04 AM »
they must of not heard of the case of Nicolae Stan
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Re: Women
« Reply #168 on: July 08, 2014, 06:48:29 AM »
Rape is forced sexual intercourse.

Penetration with an object is not sexual intercourse.

It is, however, aggravated assault, which is both easier to prove than rape, and can carry a heavier sentence.
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Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Women
« Reply #169 on: July 08, 2014, 06:56:43 AM »
they must of not heard of the case of Nicolae Stan

Apparently not.

Quote
Sex-crazed Angelina Jolie lookalike 'forces taxi driver to have sex with her at knifepoint twice' - then stabs him when he refuses a third go around

A Romanian taxi driver claims a sex-crazed Angelina Jolie lookalike passenger stabbed him after he refused to satisfy her for a third time. Nicolae Stan told police stunning Luminita Perijoc, 30, had already forced him at knifepoint to have intercourse and perform oral sex. He claims Perijoc had asked him to help her with his bags but once inside her apartment she demanded sex. When he refused she allegedly pulled out a knife and forced him to undress. Police investigating his claims say the Perijoc's behaviour may have been down to the fact she was on medication at the time.

Mr Stan said that his life has been made a misery by pals ribbing him about the fact that he had turned down the beautiful double of the Hollywood star. He said: 'It is terrible. I am now a local celebrity, every one is talking about me.'They don't understand why I refused her, but they do not know what it is like to have a mad woman yelling at you at knife point. 'They look at her, then look at me and laugh. But I think anyone would find it impossible to perform with a knife at their throat even if they were with Miss Romania.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2194240/Angelina-Jolie-lookalike-stabs-taxi-driver-refusing-sex-her.html

This wouldn't be rape according to the laws of the UK? Weird.

« Last Edit: July 08, 2014, 06:59:35 AM by Cyrillic »

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Re: Women
« Reply #170 on: July 08, 2014, 07:03:40 AM »
This wouldn't be rape according to the laws of the UK? Weird.

As the law stands, no. It could prompt debates about changing the law, but I bet there would be those lawmakers (men, the vast majority) who would say that if he got the flag to fly, it can't have been entirely unwilling. :D
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Offline JamesR

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Re: Women
« Reply #171 on: July 08, 2014, 07:12:22 AM »
Rape is forced sexual intercourse.

Penetration with an object is not sexual intercourse.

It is, however, aggravated assault, which is both easier to prove than rape, and can carry a heavier sentence.

US law is thankfully less screwed up and matriarchal in that regard

Sexual contact is defined as "...the intentional touching, either directly or through the clothing, of the genitalia, anus, groin, breast, inner thigh, or buttocks of any person with an intent to abuse, humiliate, harass, degrade, or arouse or gratify the sexual desire of any person..." (Source)

Rape is defined as "Penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim." (Source)

The definition of sexual contact is one of the reasons why I don't think the classic nut-kick that women joke about and Hollywood satirizes should be as socially acceptable as it is. A woman advising another to kick a man in the genitals is akin to a man telling another man to grope a woman's breasts against her will when she's obstinate. But feminists would hate me if they heard me say this  ::)

Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Women
« Reply #172 on: July 08, 2014, 07:20:35 AM »
This wouldn't be rape according to the laws of the UK? Weird.

As the law stands, no. It could prompt debates about changing the law, but I bet there would be those lawmakers (men, the vast majority) who would say that if he got the flag to fly, it can't have been entirely unwilling. :D

 :)

Poor taxi driver, though. First he was raped, then he was stabbed, then everybody, including his friends, laughed. Society isn't kind to male rape victims.


US law is thankfully less screwed up and matriarchal in that regard

Sexual contact is defined as "...the intentional touching, either directly or through the clothing, of the genitalia, anus, groin, breast, inner thigh, or buttocks of any person with an intent to abuse, humiliate, harass, degrade, or arouse or gratify the sexual desire of any person..." (Source)

Rape is defined as "Penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim." (Source)

Still, if that Romanian taxi driver were raped in the US the woman couldn't have been convicted of rape.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2014, 07:34:33 AM by Cyrillic »

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Re: Women
« Reply #173 on: July 08, 2014, 07:24:30 AM »
This wouldn't be rape according to the laws of the UK? Weird.

As the law stands, no. It could prompt debates about changing the law, but I bet there would be those lawmakers (men, the vast majority) who would say that if he got the flag to fly, it can't have been entirely unwilling. :D

 :)

Poor taxi driver, though. First he was raped, then he was stabbed, then everybody laughed. Society isn't kind to male rape victims.

This is why ever law-abiding citizen should carry a gun. I can't wait to turn 21 so I can try to get a conceal carry permit to hold a .357 magnum on me at all times.

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Re: Women
« Reply #174 on: July 08, 2014, 07:30:06 AM »
The definition of sexual contact is one of the reasons why I don't think the classic nut-kick that women joke about and Hollywood satirizes should be as socially acceptable as it is. A woman advising another to kick a man in the genitals is akin to a man telling another man to grope a woman's breasts against her will when she's obstinate. But feminists would hate me if they heard me say this  ::)

Usually the kick comes after the gropage. :P Still, a high heel through the metatarsals, elbow to the throat or nails into the eyes can do the job more effectively.

Poor taxi driver, though. First he was raped, then he was stabbed, then everybody, including his friends, laughed. Society isn't kind to male rape victims.

If it's any consolation, she'd have got it hard for the knifepoint bit. Law is cracking down something fierce on knife-carrying.
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Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Women
« Reply #175 on: July 08, 2014, 07:30:31 AM »
This wouldn't be rape according to the laws of the UK? Weird.

As the law stands, no. It could prompt debates about changing the law, but I bet there would be those lawmakers (men, the vast majority) who would say that if he got the flag to fly, it can't have been entirely unwilling. :D

 :)

Poor taxi driver, though. First he was raped, then he was stabbed, then everybody laughed. Society isn't kind to male rape victims.

This is why ever law-abiding citizen should carry a gun. I can't wait to turn 21 so I can try to get a conceal carry permit to hold a .357 magnum on me at all times.

If you do that in the UK you'll be jailed, so that's not going to work there.

If it's any consolation, she'd have got it hard for the knifepoint bit. Law is cracking down something fierce on knife-carrying.

That's true. Stabbing people is not something the law allows. Still, it feels like somewhat an injustice that this woman could get away with rape in the UK (or the US, apparently).
« Last Edit: July 08, 2014, 07:32:08 AM by Cyrillic »

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Re: Women
« Reply #176 on: July 08, 2014, 07:31:38 AM »
Still, if that Romanian taxi driver was raped in the US the woman couldn't have been convicted of rape.

Yeah the problem is that the legal definition of rape doesn't take into account the concept of forcing another person to sexually penetrate you but only recognizes rape when the offender does the penetrating.

Offline Jonathan Gress

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Re: Women
« Reply #177 on: July 08, 2014, 08:48:42 AM »
Whenever I come across males who loudly and stridently go on about how women are inherently weaker, more unstable, etc, than men, I'm always reminded of the events at the Crucifixion: all but one of the male disciples, chosen by Christ Himself, and including Peter, had scattered and fled in fear and terror. It was the women, and the youngest disciple, in all likelihood still a teenager, who had the guts, strength and determination to stay and keep vigil, even though it was the worst and most painful experience of their lives. Their reward was to be the first to see the risen Christ, to be the first to proclaim the Good News, and to eventually be with Him as His saints in heaven.

Some of the spiritual descendants of these humble but indomitable women are the mami and babushki of the Soviet period, who made sure the books and icons were hidden, the babies were baptised, the faith was taught, at fearsome danger to themselves and their loved ones. Yet they did what was right, including standing up to many a komissar. Do not insult their memory, nor their efforts, by assertions of "weakness" and "instability". Many of us know such women, and have heard their stories. May we all be humbled by their sterling efforts.

For those on this forum of the ilk of Charles Martel and Punch, let this be food for thought.

My impression is that such women are often described in pious literature as "manly" (in the good sense of the word), i.e. they overcame the natural weakness of their sex. So in Orthodoxy we certainly believe that women are capable, by the grace of God, of achieving the same spiritual heights as men, but at the same time we acknowledge facts about the different natural characteristics of men and women, one of which is that men are naturally more "courageous" than women, which I think essentially means they have a higher pain threshold, which is substantiated by the scientific literature. Contrariwise, there are many feminine virtues, like meekness, that men can also achieve by grace, but don't come to them naturally.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2014, 08:49:42 AM by Jonathan Gress »

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Re: Women
« Reply #178 on: July 08, 2014, 08:51:16 AM »
What a strange thread this is.
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Re: Women
« Reply #179 on: July 08, 2014, 08:55:46 AM »
Whenever I come across males who loudly and stridently go on about how women are inherently weaker, more unstable, etc, than men, I'm always reminded of the events at the Crucifixion: all but one of the male disciples, chosen by Christ Himself, and including Peter, had scattered and fled in fear and terror. It was the women, and the youngest disciple, in all likelihood still a teenager, who had the guts, strength and determination to stay and keep vigil, even though it was the worst and most painful experience of their lives. Their reward was to be the first to see the risen Christ, to be the first to proclaim the Good News, and to eventually be with Him as His saints in heaven.

Some of the spiritual descendants of these humble but indomitable women are the mami and babushki of the Soviet period, who made sure the books and icons were hidden, the babies were baptised, the faith was taught, at fearsome danger to themselves and their loved ones. Yet they did what was right, including standing up to many a komissar. Do not insult their memory, nor their efforts, by assertions of "weakness" and "instability". Many of us know such women, and have heard their stories. May we all be humbled by their sterling efforts.

For those on this forum of the ilk of Charles Martel and Punch, let this be food for thought.

My impression is that such women are often described in pious literature as "manly" (in the good sense of the word), i.e. they overcame the natural weakness of their sex. So in Orthodoxy we certainly believe that women are capable, by the grace of God, of achieving the same spiritual heights as men, but at the same time we acknowledge facts about the different natural characteristics of men and women, one of which is that men are naturally more "courageous" than women, which I think essentially means they have a higher pain threshold, which is substantiated by the scientific literature. Contrariwise, there are many feminine virtues, like meekness, that men can also achieve by grace, but don't come to them naturally.

Quoting a single study, examining only one type of pain stimulus, as "substantiation by the scientific literature"? You'll have to do much, much better than that, Jonathan.  :P ::)

EDIT: Moreover, what are your impressions of why the women stayed on at the Crucifixion, while the male disciples were nowhere to be found and terrified?
« Last Edit: July 08, 2014, 09:01:26 AM by LBK »
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?