Author Topic: Short Questions - Short Answers  (Read 1294 times)

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Offline Caelestinus

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Short Questions - Short Answers
« on: July 01, 2014, 07:58:49 AM »
I asked it elsewhere, but can't remember the answers:

Which Bible translation(s) is (are) in use in WRO parishes/communities (Antiochian/ROCOR)?

Offline Reader KevinAndrew

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Re: Short Questions - Short Answers
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2014, 01:05:15 PM »
I asked it elsewhere, but can't remember the answers:

Which Bible translation(s) is (are) in use in WRO parishes/communities (Antiochian/ROCOR)?

KJV

Offline primuspilus

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Re: Short Questions - Short Answers
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2014, 03:08:11 PM »
New King James or just the King James. I have heard a new translation project is underway however.

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Offline militantsparrow

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Re: Short Questions - Short Answers
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2014, 10:36:57 PM »
I asked it elsewhere, but can't remember the answers:

Which Bible translation(s) is (are) in use in WRO parishes/communities (Antiochian/ROCOR)?

I'm honestly not sure what bible is read from during the Liturgy, but all of our service books quote from the Douay–Rheims. This is true of the Office as well.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2014, 10:37:25 PM by militantsparrow »
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Offline Peter J

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Re: Short Questions - Short Answers
« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2014, 03:18:02 PM »
I asked it elsewhere, but can't remember the answers:

Which Bible translation(s) is (are) in use in WRO parishes/communities (Antiochian/ROCOR)?

KJV

 ???
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Offline Reader KevinAndrew

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Re: Short Questions - Short Answers
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2014, 11:46:41 PM »
I asked it elsewhere, but can't remember the answers:

Which Bible translation(s) is (are) in use in WRO parishes/communities (Antiochian/ROCOR)?

KJV

 ???

At St. Gregory the Great Orthodox Church in DC it's the King James Version. Why the question marks?

Offline Peter J

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Re: Short Questions - Short Answers
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2014, 08:10:36 AM »
I asked it elsewhere, but can't remember the answers:

Which Bible translation(s) is (are) in use in WRO parishes/communities (Antiochian/ROCOR)?

KJV

 ???

At St. Gregory the Great Orthodox Church in DC it's the King James Version. Why the question marks?

Sorry I was being a bit anti-KJV.
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Online TheTrisagion

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Re: Short Questions - Short Answers
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2014, 04:10:17 PM »
I asked it elsewhere, but can't remember the answers:

Which Bible translation(s) is (are) in use in WRO parishes/communities (Antiochian/ROCOR)?

KJV

 ???

At St. Gregory the Great Orthodox Church in DC it's the King James Version. Why the question marks?

Sorry I was being a bit anti-KJV.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2014, 04:10:59 PM by TheTrisagion »
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Offline hecma925

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Re: Short Questions - Short Answers
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2014, 02:42:06 AM »
Jack Chick is always good for a laugh.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Short Questions - Short Answers
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2014, 02:59:43 AM »
We need an illustration of the Geneva-KJV-Rheims three-way smackdown. For three versions the promoters of which actually killed each other, they sure share a lot of wording.
One hides amid pornography, angry music, television that shows the worst of mankind, misanthropic politics, an internet populace led by all the passions: and then one asks, "Where is God?"


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Offline hecma925

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Re: Short Questions - Short Answers
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2014, 03:10:32 AM »
We need an illustration of the Geneva-KJV-Rheims three-way smackdown. For three versions the promoters of which actually killed each other, they sure share a lot of wording.

What denomination uses Geneva Bible consistently?

In my more recent Bapticostalnondenom days, it wasn't weird for a preacher to quote from three or four different translations to get their point across.  Years ago, anathema.
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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Short Questions - Short Answers
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2014, 03:19:21 AM »
I'm talking about the era during which the translations were made. The factions behind Geneva and KJV would go on to wage the English Civil War, while Douay-Rheims was much reviled and many Catholics were arrested or driven out of the country. It was just a volatile period, and each faction had its "correct" version and condemned the other versions. At the same time, Geneva and KJV borrow liberally from common sources (previous translations) and KJV borrows from Geneva and from Douay Rheims -- the King's translators would never have admitted it, but a comparison of the texts shows they did envy the Jesuit scholarship, especially in Hebrew. Maybe I'm not telling you anything you didn't know.

As for nowadays, there are a couple of Reformed denominations that have adopted the Geneva as the "correct" version. I think the Federal Covenant (or however the name goes) is one. It's probably a reaction to the IFB 1611ers. Churches be crazy out there.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2014, 03:21:33 AM by Porter ODoran »
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Offline hecma925

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Re: Short Questions - Short Answers
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2014, 03:37:01 AM »
I'm talking about the era during which the translations were made. The factions behind Geneva and KJV would go on to wage the English Civil War, while Douay-Rheims was much reviled and many Catholics were arrested or driven out of the country. It was just a volatile period, and each faction had its "correct" version and condemned the other versions. At the same time, Geneva and KJV borrow liberally from common sources (previous translations) and KJV borrows from Geneva and from Douay Rheims -- the King's translators would never have admitted it, but a comparison of the texts shows they did envy the Jesuit scholarship, especially in Hebrew. Maybe I'm not telling you anything you didn't know.

It's a fascinating part of history.  Although, I've read plenty on the KJV history and the English Civil War, I need to delve more into it.  It's been a while.

Quote
As for nowadays, there are a couple of Reformed denominations that have adopted the Geneva as the "correct" version. I think the Federal Covenant (or however the name goes) is one. It's probably a reaction to the IFB 1611ers. Churches be crazy out there.

Oooweee, I know them folks.
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Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

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Offline celestialhost

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Re: Short Questions - Short Answers
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2014, 02:53:45 PM »
I'm a former Protestant KJV-lover converting to Catholicism. I just started reading the Douay-Rheims. I'm not sure how well I'll get used to it, but it seems better than the horrible modern Catholic translation they use in church.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Short Questions - Short Answers
« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2014, 03:00:38 PM »
The thing about a real Geneva or a real Douay-Rheims is that they often consist of more commentary than text. The commentary is dogmatic and was considered a vital part of the version. As such, not too many folks nowadays are going to read them without bemusement (or of course strong reaction).
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Offline celestialhost

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Re: Short Questions - Short Answers
« Reply #15 on: July 12, 2014, 05:52:48 PM »
The thing about a real Geneva or a real Douay-Rheims is that they often consist of more commentary than text. The commentary is dogmatic and was considered a vital part of the version. As such, not too many folks nowadays are going to read them without bemusement (or of course strong reaction).

I never used to go to church or street preaching without my Scofield Bible. Can't get more dogmatic than that.

Offline WPM

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Re: Short Questions - Short Answers
« Reply #16 on: July 13, 2014, 04:10:10 AM »
NKJV New Testament

Offline Christopher McAvoy

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Re: Short Questions - Short Answers
« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2014, 10:45:34 PM »
I have included a few short commentary excerpts from the 1610 douay rheims text in my re-arrangement of David James "A Psalter of Prayer" realigned in vulgate verses  for singing to gregorian tones. I love the 1610 Douay Rheims commentary.

Psalm 146
"Gods excellency in creating and governing the world. the 2. key. God is also to be praised by his peculiar people, for particular benefits. 4 &
for his omnipotent power, wisdom, Goodness, in creating, and governing this whole world, 11. and most special benignity towards those that trust in him."


Here's the longer commentary I wouldn't include though, no relevance to the psalter either. This is from the new testament in the 1582 Douay Rheims:

Quote
The secret conventicles of Heretics.
Catholic Christians secretly assembling in time of persecution.

Christ having made the Church's authority bright and clear to the whole world, warneth the faithful to take heed of Heretics and Schismatics, which have their conventicles aside in certain odd places and obscure corners, alluring curious persons unto them.  Aug. li. 1 q. Evang. q. 18. For as for the coming together of Catholics to serve God in secret places, that is a necessary thing in time of persecution, and was used of Christians for three hundred years together after Christ, *and the Apostles also and disciples came together in Jerusalem for fear of the Jews. And Catholics do the same at this day in our country, not drawing religion into corners from the society of the Catholic Church, but practicing secretly the same faith, that in all Christendom shineth and appeareth most
gloriously.
29. Immediately.] If the latter day shall immediately follow the persecution of Antichrist, which is to endure but three years and a half, as is aforesaid: then is it mere blasphemy to say, God's Vicar is Antichrist, and that (by their own limitation) these thousand years almost.

Quote
4. Unless you abide. ] These conditional speeches, If you remain in the vine, if you keep my commandments, and such like, give us to wit that we be not sure to persist or persevere, nor to be saved, but under conditions to be fulfilled by us.
4. Unless it abide. ] Whosoever by Heresy or Schism or for any other cause is cut off or separated from the Church, he can do no meritorious work to salvation. 10. Keep my precepts. ] This careful and often admonition of keeping his commandments, proveth that a Christian man's life is not only or principally in faith, but in good works.
24. If I had. ] If the Jews had not sinned by refusing Christ, in case he had not done greater miracles than any other: then were it a great folly of Catholics to believe Luther's or Calvin's new opinions without any miracles at all.
26. Whom I will send. ] The Holy Ghost is sent by the son. Therefore he proceedeth from him also, as from the Father: though the late schismatical Greeks think otherwise.
27. You shall give. ] He vouchsafeth to join together the testimony of the Holy Ghost, and of the Apostles: that we may see the testimony of truth joined to consist in the Holy Ghost and in the Prelates of the Church.

It's certainly fair to say that the original editions of Douay Rheims are anti-ecumenical bibles - in the sense of how most people view ecumenism today. Certainly it's good for people to be clear about what they believe in though, that's where the true authentic ecumenism than can be drawn out, the old 15th c. style ecumenism, such as featured at the council of constance/florence...
« Last Edit: July 21, 2014, 10:59:51 PM by Christopher McAvoy »
"and for all who are Orthodox, and who hold the Catholic and Apostolic Faith, remember, O Lord, thy servants" - yet the post-conciliar RC hierarchy is tolerant of everyone and everything... except Catholic Tradition, for modernists are as salt with no taste, to be “thrown out and trampled under foot