OrthodoxChristianity.net
November 27, 2014, 04:24:18 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 »   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Things you like about those schismatics  (Read 5944 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Nephi
Monster Tamer
Section Moderator
Protokentarchos
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Non-Chalcedonian Byzantine
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Church of Antioch
Posts: 4,690



« Reply #45 on: June 28, 2014, 12:22:05 PM »

I think the big exception to what you're outlining is Francis of Assisi.

The conventional Orthodox opinion seems to be that Francis, John of the Cross, Teresa of Ávila and especially, IMO, Thérèse of Lisieux were subject to big time prelest. Maybe it takes one to know one; I try to take my anti-prelest medication every week without over-doing it.

I think much of that is limited to traditionalist sorts of Orthodox. I find the charge of prelest insulting, since almost everything denounced about, e.g., St. Francis of Assisi can be found in Orthodox saints. From crazy visions (St. Seraphim of Sarov) to actively seeking out martyrdom (St. Ignatius of Antioch), there are pretty direct parallels.
Logged
Wandile
Peter the Roman
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church - Roman Rite
Jurisdiction: Archdiocese of Pretoria, South Africa
Posts: 1,158


@Wandi_Star
« Reply #46 on: June 28, 2014, 12:23:01 PM »

I think the big exception to what you're outlining is Francis of Assisi.

The conventional Orthodox opinion seems to be that Francis, John of the Cross, Teresa of Ávila and especially, IMO, Thérèse of Lisieux were subject to big time prelest. Maybe it takes one to know one; I try to take my anti-prelest medication every week without over-doing it.

That is sad ...
Logged

\"Keep close to the Catholic Church at all times, for the Church alone can give you true peace, since she alone possesses Jesus, the true Prince of Peace, in the Blessed Sacrament.\" - Padre Pio<br /><br />\"He inquired whether he agreed with the Catholic bishops, that is
The Fool
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian Archdiocese of the British Isles and Ireland
Posts: 216



« Reply #47 on: June 28, 2014, 12:33:09 PM »

I think much of that is limited to traditionalist sorts of Orthodox. I find the charge of prelest insulting, since almost everything denounced about, e.g., St. Francis of Assisi can be found in Orthodox saints. From crazy visions (St. Seraphim of Sarov) to actively seeking out martyrdom (St. Ignatius of Antioch), there are pretty direct parallels.

We have a problem, if we're using "traditionalist" as a negative. What one needs to do is show that this old-fashioned thing one doesn't like is, in fact, contrary to the real tradition.
Logged

"When I hear the words 'Interfaith Dialogue', I reach for my revolver."
Nephi
Monster Tamer
Section Moderator
Protokentarchos
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Non-Chalcedonian Byzantine
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Church of Antioch
Posts: 4,690



« Reply #48 on: June 28, 2014, 12:44:13 PM »

I think much of that is limited to traditionalist sorts of Orthodox. I find the charge of prelest insulting, since almost everything denounced about, e.g., St. Francis of Assisi can be found in Orthodox saints. From crazy visions (St. Seraphim of Sarov) to actively seeking out martyrdom (St. Ignatius of Antioch), there are pretty direct parallels.

We have a problem, if we're using "traditionalist" as a negative. What one needs to do is show that this old-fashioned thing one doesn't like is, in fact, contrary to the real tradition.

Traditionalist is being used to refer to a certain type of people, just like "traditionalist Catholics" means a very specific type of Catholic.
Logged
Georgii
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ROCOR, German Diocese
Posts: 295


Holy Martyr Afra, pray to God for us!


« Reply #49 on: June 28, 2014, 12:50:51 PM »

[qany ote author=Porter ODoran link=topic=59271.msg1146593#msg1146593 date=1403971909] it's a little rich to see John of the Cross condemned, seeing as (in my opinion) he just plagiarized the Eastern mystics ...
[/quote]

Very fair. It's not like any of us know for sure who are saved, this side of Paradise. I hope for the salvation of all, and I confide that all the Saints are praying for us, too.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2014, 01:07:59 PM by Georgii » Logged

my garment accuses me, for it is not a wedding garment
Peter J
Formerly PJ
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Melkite
Posts: 6,170



« Reply #50 on: June 28, 2014, 05:11:26 PM »

I like everything about the Orthodox except their rejection of the Pope...

I think my way of putting it was better (granted, I'm a little biased  toward my own wit angel):

Quote
I can't believe no one has mentioned the very best thing about Orthodox.
...
It's when they become Catholic of course!
Logged

- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)
Arachne
Trinary Unit || Resident Bossy Boots
Section Moderator
Protokentarchos
*****
Online Online

Faith: Greek Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian Archdiocese of the British Isles and Ireland
Posts: 4,673


November is short. Type fast.


« Reply #51 on: June 28, 2014, 05:23:13 PM »

I love Gothic cathedrals (the more stained glass and Green Men, the better); Ambrosian, Mozarabic and Gregorian chant, rosaries, and the Camino de Santiago.

Yes, I'm an unrepentant aesthete, why do you ask? Tongue
Logged

'When you live your path all the time, you end up with both more path and more time.'~Venecia Rauls

Blog ~ Bookshelf ~ Jukebox
Nicene
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek
Posts: 615


« Reply #52 on: June 28, 2014, 05:49:06 PM »

I like that the services are fully in English in English speaking countries.
Logged

Thank you.
Charles Martel
Traditional Roman Catholic
Warned
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Roman Catholic
Jurisdiction: New york
Posts: 3,317


« Reply #53 on: June 28, 2014, 07:57:37 PM »

I think the big exception to what you're outlining is Francis of Assisi.

The conventional Orthodox opinion seems to be that Francis, John of the Cross, Teresa of Ávila and especially, IMO, Thérèse of Lisieux were subject to big time prelest. Maybe it takes one to know one; I try to take my anti-prelest medication every week without over-doing it.
Is this your personal opinion or some kind of official  Eastern Orthodox vantage point.

Because you just happen to pick four of the most popular and influential saints and doctors of the RCC.

And basically describe them as kooks.
Logged

Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.
Nephi
Monster Tamer
Section Moderator
Protokentarchos
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Non-Chalcedonian Byzantine
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Church of Antioch
Posts: 4,690



« Reply #54 on: June 28, 2014, 08:03:26 PM »

Is this your personal opinion or some kind of official  Eastern Orthodox vantage point.

Because you just happen to pick four of the most popular and influential saints and doctors of the RCC.

And basically describe them as kooks.

It's not official, but it's not rare.

See this article contrasting St. Seraphim of Sarov and St. Francis of Assisi. It pretty much affirms the prelest line.
Logged
Charles Martel
Traditional Roman Catholic
Warned
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Roman Catholic
Jurisdiction: New york
Posts: 3,317


« Reply #55 on: June 28, 2014, 08:25:03 PM »

Is this your personal opinion or some kind of official  Eastern Orthodox vantage point.

Because you just happen to pick four of the most popular and influential saints and doctors of the RCC.

And basically describe them as kooks.

It's not official, but it's not rare.

See this article contrasting St. Seraphim of Sarov and St. Francis of Assisi. It pretty much affirms the prelest line.
That's a lot of reading. I'll just have to take your word on that one. Wink
Logged

Sancte Michael Archangele, defende nos in proelio, contra nequitiam et insidias diaboli esto praesidium.
Papist
Patriarch of Pontification
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Byzantine
Posts: 12,365


Praying for the Christians in Iraq


« Reply #56 on: June 28, 2014, 08:33:35 PM »

With regard to Orthodoxy, there are quite a few things to love:

Emphasis on Christian mysticism

Objectively beautiful icons, architecture, and music

No need to define every aspect of the faith

Love of the Eastern Fathers

Lack of legalism with regard to sin and repentance

The Jesus Prayer

St. Seraphim of Serov

etc. etc. etc.
Logged

You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Online Online

Posts: 30,228


that is not the teaching of...


« Reply #57 on: June 28, 2014, 08:36:48 PM »

Is this your personal opinion or some kind of official  Eastern Orthodox vantage point.

Because you just happen to pick four of the most popular and influential saints and doctors of the RCC.

And basically describe them as kooks.

It's not official, but it's not rare.

See this article contrasting St. Seraphim of Sarov and St. Francis of Assisi. It pretty much affirms the prelest line.

It isn't rare? I must not be paying attention then, because that orthodoxinfo article is the only one of its type I can remember reading in my 14 or so years of familiarity with Orthodoxy. Though if you mean its not rare for people on email lists and discussion boards to make comments along those lines even though they don't have much justification for doing so then I agree.  angel
Logged
Nephi
Monster Tamer
Section Moderator
Protokentarchos
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Non-Chalcedonian Byzantine
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Church of Antioch
Posts: 4,690



« Reply #58 on: June 28, 2014, 09:24:24 PM »

Is this your personal opinion or some kind of official  Eastern Orthodox vantage point.

Because you just happen to pick four of the most popular and influential saints and doctors of the RCC.

And basically describe them as kooks.

It's not official, but it's not rare.

See this article contrasting St. Seraphim of Sarov and St. Francis of Assisi. It pretty much affirms the prelest line.

It isn't rare? I must not be paying attention then, because that orthodoxinfo article is the only one of its type I can remember reading in my 14 or so years of familiarity with Orthodoxy. Though if you mean its not rare for people on email lists and discussion boards to make comments along those lines even though they don't have much justification for doing so then I agree.  angel

More of the latter. I've heard it said or at least implied in person a handful of times, but not nearly as much nor as explicit as online.

Although, I wouldn't be surprised if those Greek bishops that wrote that letter to Pope Francis have written something along those lines at some point.
Logged
Gunnarr
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,801



« Reply #59 on: June 28, 2014, 09:58:44 PM »

Is this your personal opinion or some kind of official  Eastern Orthodox vantage point.

Because you just happen to pick four of the most popular and influential saints and doctors of the RCC.

And basically describe them as kooks.

It's not official, but it's not rare.

See this article contrasting St. Seraphim of Sarov and St. Francis of Assisi. It pretty much affirms the prelest line.

It isn't rare? I must not be paying attention then, because that orthodoxinfo article is the only one of its type I can remember reading in my 14 or so years of familiarity with Orthodoxy. Though if you mean its not rare for people on email lists and discussion boards to make comments along those lines even though they don't have much justification for doing so then I agree.  angel

Well I did not read the article listed but i think just comparing those first quotes on the article is enough to see the difference...

also i read the wikipedia article on prelest and wow... it is really on the side of the Eastern Orthodox just saying lol (and surprisingly full of quotes from saints)
« Last Edit: June 28, 2014, 09:59:16 PM by Gunnarr » Logged

I am a demonic servant! Beware!
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 18,378


"Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee..."


WWW
« Reply #60 on: June 28, 2014, 09:59:40 PM »

Although, I wouldn't be surprised if those Greek bishops that wrote that letter to Pope Francis have written something along those lines at some point.

There are all sorts of dead bodies in that letter.  Tongue
Logged

The Mor has spoken. Let his word endure unto the ages of ages.
KostaC
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of Chicago & the Diocese of Washington (Orthodox Church in America)
Posts: 211


Chicago River Dyeing, March 15th, 20


« Reply #61 on: June 28, 2014, 10:04:44 PM »

I like that the Catholic club of my university took me in, fed me, and let me do my homework and smoke the occasional cigar on their deck. It meant a lot to me, that I had somewhere to flee to when DC living weighed on me. My OCF only meets on Tuesdays and church is too far away to go by bus everyday, so they became my refuge. Okay yeah, they challenged me to a bet that I lost to attend RCIA for a year which I guess would somehow make me Catholic or something even if I wasn't chrismated, but not everyone's perfect, I s'pose.

But I doubt that's what you all were looking for. I also greatly enjoy Mozarabic, Gregorian, Sarum, Ambrosian, and Gallican chant and liturgy. I hope one day before I die to see an actual, honest-to-God Mozarabic liturgy in the Orthodox Church. Too bad Saints Isidoros and Leandros Spanish Orthodox Church isn't canonical—but that's life, I suppose.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2014, 10:07:16 PM by KostaC » Logged

«Μὴ μεριμνᾶτε λοιπὸν διὰ τὴν αὔριον, διὀτι ἡ αὐριανὴ ἡμέρα θὰ φροντίσῃ διὰ τὰ δικά της πράγματα. Φθάνει ἡ στεναχώρια τῆς ἡμέρας». Κατά Ματθαίον 6:34

"Bendito seja o que vem em nome do Senhor, o Senhor é Deus e se manifestou a nós."
Deacon Lance
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine Catholic
Jurisdiction: Archeparchy of Pittsburgh
Posts: 3,000


Liturgy at Mt. St. Macrina Pilgrimage


« Reply #62 on: June 29, 2014, 12:45:59 PM »

Is this your personal opinion or some kind of official  Eastern Orthodox vantage point.

Because you just happen to pick four of the most popular and influential saints and doctors of the RCC.

And basically describe them as kooks.

It's not official, but it's not rare.

See this article contrasting St. Seraphim of Sarov and St. Francis of Assisi. It pretty much affirms the prelest line.
Well at least some don't think he is too bad:
http://www.osservatoreromano.va/en/news/opportunity-relaunch-commitment-ecumenism#.U7BB1tq9KSM
The Greek Orthodox delegation gave Pope Francis an icon of St. Francis.
Logged

My cromulent posts embiggen this forum.
podkarpatska
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ACROD
Posts: 8,808


Pokrov


WWW
« Reply #63 on: June 29, 2014, 01:30:01 PM »

Is this your personal opinion or some kind of official  Eastern Orthodox vantage point.

Because you just happen to pick four of the most popular and influential saints and doctors of the RCC.

And basically describe them as kooks.

It's not official, but it's not rare.

See this article contrasting St. Seraphim of Sarov and St. Francis of Assisi. It pretty much affirms the prelest line.

It isn't rare? I must not be paying attention then, because that orthodoxinfo article is the only one of its type I can remember reading in my 14 or so years of familiarity with Orthodoxy. Though if you mean its not rare for people on email lists and discussion boards to make comments along those lines even though they don't have much justification for doing so then I agree.  angel

Or, as my mom taught me - "consider the source."

I admire much about the core of Catholicism - but not the chaff of their modernists, their excessive legalism nor the dogmatic definitions of the papacy. BUT, any Faith whose leader can express the mystery and relevance of St John Climacus so movingly and as understandably as does Pope Emeritus Benedict here - http://pittsburghoratory.wordpress.com/2013/06/13/pope-benedict-xvi-on-st-john-climacus-and-the-ladder-of-divine-ascent/ - shares much with us Orthodox  - whether you want to admit it not.
Logged
biro
Excelsior
Site Supporter
Warned
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox
Posts: 14,438


fleem
WWW
« Reply #64 on: June 29, 2014, 01:44:53 PM »

More things I like: parish fairs! We both have good ones.  Smiley

Logged

Charlie Rose: "If you could change one thing about the world, what would it be?"

Fran Lebowitz: "Everything. There is not one thing with which I am satisified."

spcasuncoast.org
podkarpatska
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ACROD
Posts: 8,808


Pokrov


WWW
« Reply #65 on: June 29, 2014, 01:49:40 PM »

More things I like: parish fairs! We both have good ones.  Smiley




We make better holubki than the Greek Catholics. Wink
Logged
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 18,378


"Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee..."


WWW
« Reply #66 on: June 29, 2014, 02:13:58 PM »

More things I like: parish fairs! We both have good ones.  Smiley



Italian parishes have great festas! 
Logged

The Mor has spoken. Let his word endure unto the ages of ages.
The young fogey
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,798


I'm an alpaca, actually


WWW
« Reply #67 on: June 30, 2014, 02:47:10 AM »

I admire much about the core of Catholicism - but not the chaff of their modernists, their excessive legalism nor the dogmatic definitions of the papacy. BUT, any Faith whose leader can express the mystery and relevance of St John Climacus so movingly and as understandably as does Pope Emeritus Benedict here - http://pittsburghoratory.wordpress.com/2013/06/13/pope-benedict-xvi-on-st-john-climacus-and-the-ladder-of-divine-ascent/ - shares much with us Orthodox  - whether you want to admit it not.

Thanks.

The dogmatic definitions of the papacy didn't cause the 1930s fiasco in America.

The trouble is your group went from the good cause of defending your culture to, understandably resentful that churchmen disrepected your culture and dishonored the act of union that promised to preserve it, buying into the line that your culture is the church (so we're not the church). Then when the third generation in America isn't Carpatho-Russian anymore, they leave.
Logged

Nephi
Monster Tamer
Section Moderator
Protokentarchos
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Non-Chalcedonian Byzantine
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Church of Antioch
Posts: 4,690



« Reply #68 on: June 30, 2014, 03:07:56 AM »

Thanks.

The dogmatic definitions of the papacy didn't cause the 1930s fiasco in America.

The trouble is your group went from the good cause of defending your culture to, understandably resentful that churchmen disrepected your culture and dishonored the act of union that promised to preserve it, buying into the line that your culture is the church (so we're not the church). Then when the third generation in America isn't Carpatho-Russian anymore, they leave.

Initializing scan of post...

... "Culture." Three (3) found.
... "The church," "one-true-church," or any other related variant. Two (2) found.
... "Easterners think their culture is the church," or any other related variant. One (1) found.
... Scan complete.

Scan results: another case of TYF copypasta confirmed, immediately disengage.
Logged
The young fogey
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,798


I'm an alpaca, actually


WWW
« Reply #69 on: June 30, 2014, 03:26:16 AM »

One good bit of snark deserves another.

Initializing scan:

Someone posts something knowledgeable and sympathetic about an Orthodox group's grievance but criticizes the Orthodox answer to that grievance.
Online Orthodox goes ad hominem (in the colloquial sense) without disproving the person's point.

Scan complete.
Logged

Peter J
Formerly PJ
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Melkite
Posts: 6,170



« Reply #70 on: June 30, 2014, 08:36:50 AM »

One good bit of snark deserves another.

Perhaps that's how Nephi justified his post...
Logged

- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)
podkarpatska
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ACROD
Posts: 8,808


Pokrov


WWW
« Reply #71 on: June 30, 2014, 08:42:58 AM »

I admire much about the core of Catholicism - but not the chaff of their modernists, their excessive legalism nor the dogmatic definitions of the papacy. BUT, any Faith whose leader can express the mystery and relevance of St John Climacus so movingly and as understandably as does Pope Emeritus Benedict here - http://pittsburghoratory.wordpress.com/2013/06/13/pope-benedict-xvi-on-st-john-climacus-and-the-ladder-of-divine-ascent/ - shares much with us Orthodox  - whether you want to admit it not.

Thanks.

The dogmatic definitions of the papacy didn't cause the 1930s fiasco in America.

The trouble is your group went from the good cause of defending your culture to, understandably resentful that churchmen disrepected your culture and dishonored the act of union that promised to preserve it, buying into the line that your culture is the church (so we're not the church). Then when the third generation in America isn't Carpatho-Russian anymore, they leave.

You don't know me or my family personally, nor are you familiar in any non superficial manner with my jurisdiction. If you were, you wouldn't tie anything I post about the Catholic church back to a time before my birth.

Quite frankly, culture among the third generation of Americans of Rusyn ancestry in both the Byzantine Catholic church and those who are now Orthodox in both the ACROD and the OCA is not a unifying glue as it remains in many Greek or Ukrainian communities. But , if you were familiar with us, it would be clear tbat your assertion about youth leaving the church (apparently because it is Orthodox instead of Eastern Catholic) is absurd and not reflected by statistics. The loss of young people within the ACROD (and the OCA for that matter) is an issue as it is in ALL religious groups in America in 2014, but not for the reasons you ascribe. If anythin (for a variety of reasons none of which having a whit of any connection to the Catholic church or our former historical connection with it), the loss ratio in ACROD and OCA may be statistically smaller than the societal norm but family stability within a relatively small population subset probably has more to do with that than anything.

Our young people don't have the same identity issues than do those in the BCC but that would be boasting on my part, I suppose...

And while my grandparents' generation may not have had strictly dogmatic reasons for leaving the Unia, they knew darned well that the Unia had shown itself to be a false construct and that the Faith as they knew it to be  - Eastern , i.e. Orthodox in both taxis and praxis - was always to be a step child in the eyes of the average RCC bishops, clergy and laity regardless of any papal words or synodal pronouncements. Had the Russian Orthodox not acted in such a heavy handed manner in concert with the Godless communist state in Europe following the war, the same consciousness may well have developed in Europe, but  we shall never know.


Logged
The Fool
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian Archdiocese of the British Isles and Ireland
Posts: 216



« Reply #72 on: June 30, 2014, 09:03:50 AM »

A thread whose topic is positivity about other communions is not the place for bickering about other communions.
Logged

"When I hear the words 'Interfaith Dialogue', I reach for my revolver."
Peter J
Formerly PJ
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Melkite
Posts: 6,170



« Reply #73 on: June 30, 2014, 09:15:06 AM »

A thread whose topic is positivity about other communions is not the place for bickering about other communions.

Good point.

Perhaps we need a thread about the "1930s fiasco in America" ... or perhaps we don't. Either way, this thread is not.
Logged

- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)
LBK
No Reporting Allowed
Moderated
Toumarches
************
Online Online

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 11,444


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!


« Reply #74 on: June 30, 2014, 09:20:39 AM »

I admire much about the core of Catholicism - but not the chaff of their modernists, their excessive legalism nor the dogmatic definitions of the papacy. BUT, any Faith whose leader can express the mystery and relevance of St John Climacus so movingly and as understandably as does Pope Emeritus Benedict here - http://pittsburghoratory.wordpress.com/2013/06/13/pope-benedict-xvi-on-st-john-climacus-and-the-ladder-of-divine-ascent/ - shares much with us Orthodox  - whether you want to admit it not.

Thanks.

The dogmatic definitions of the papacy didn't cause the 1930s fiasco in America.

The trouble is your group went from the good cause of defending your culture to, understandably resentful that churchmen disrepected your culture and dishonored the act of union that promised to preserve it, buying into the line that your culture is the church (so we're not the church). Then when the third generation in America isn't Carpatho-Russian anymore, they leave.

You don't know me or my family personally, nor are you familiar in any non superficial manner with my jurisdiction. If you were, you wouldn't tie anything I post about the Catholic church back to a time before my birth.

Quite frankly, culture among the third generation of Americans of Rusyn ancestry in both the Byzantine Catholic church and those who are now Orthodox in both the ACROD and the OCA is not a unifying glue as it remains in many Greek or Ukrainian communities. But , if you were familiar with us, it would be clear tbat your assertion about youth leaving the church (apparently because it is Orthodox instead of Eastern Catholic) is absurd and not reflected by statistics. The loss of young people within the ACROD (and the OCA for that matter) is an issue as it is in ALL religious groups in America in 2014, but not for the reasons you ascribe. If anythin (for a variety of reasons none of which having a whit of any connection to the Catholic church or our former historical connection with it), the loss ratio in ACROD and OCA may be statistically smaller than the societal norm but family stability within a relatively small population subset probably has more to do with that than anything.

Our young people don't have the same identity issues than do those in the BCC but that would be boasting on my part, I suppose...

And while my grandparents' generation may not have had strictly dogmatic reasons for leaving the Unia, they knew darned well that the Unia had shown itself to be a false construct and that the Faith as they knew it to be  - Eastern , i.e. Orthodox in both taxis and praxis - was always to be a step child in the eyes of the average RCC bishops, clergy and laity regardless of any papal words or synodal pronouncements. Had the Russian Orthodox not acted in such a heavy handed manner in concert with the Godless communist state in Europe following the war, the same consciousness may well have developed in Europe, but  we shall never know.




Hear hear! I'd rather accept the testimony of someone like podkarpatska, whose direct and ancestral experience spans more than a century, than the pontifications of Johnny-come-latelys.
Logged
jah777
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Posts: 1,967


« Reply #75 on: June 30, 2014, 10:55:28 AM »

Trappists have made and inspired many excellent beer styles.
Logged
minasoliman
Mr., Sir, Dude, Guy, Male, tr. Minas in Greek, Menes in white people Egyptologists :-P
Section Moderator
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic Orthodox Archdiocese of North America
Posts: 12,720


Strengthen O Lord the work of Your hands(Is 19:25)


« Reply #76 on: June 30, 2014, 11:08:55 AM »

To be honest I like most things in Roman Catholics.  What I don't like, well, that's not the scope of this discussion.

Things I like most: Gregorian chant, Francis of Assisi, Thomas Aquinas, the desire for dialogue and unity without conciliar or canonical saint fundamentalism (although the papal infallibility is a thorn), and maybe perhaps the ability to convene councils at will (although again I wouldn't agree with papal infallibility in this as well)
« Last Edit: June 30, 2014, 11:09:09 AM by minasoliman » Logged

Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 18,378


"Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee..."


WWW
« Reply #77 on: June 30, 2014, 11:23:18 AM »

Thomas Aquinas

I would like to talk to you about Thomas Aquinas.






Warning: Language
« Last Edit: June 30, 2014, 11:24:06 AM by Mor Ephrem » Logged

The Mor has spoken. Let his word endure unto the ages of ages.
Peter J
Formerly PJ
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Melkite
Posts: 6,170



« Reply #78 on: June 30, 2014, 11:36:15 AM »

To be honest I like most things in Roman Catholics.  What I don't like, well, that's not the scope of this discussion.

Things I like most: Gregorian chant, Francis of Assisi, Thomas Aquinas,

Sorry to hear that.
Logged

- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Online Online

Posts: 30,228


that is not the teaching of...


« Reply #79 on: June 30, 2014, 11:40:39 AM »

My grandfather. Best mark in their favor for me.
Even though they don't like it, they can't ignore the allure of Easternism. Smart.
Logged
The Fool
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian Archdiocese of the British Isles and Ireland
Posts: 216



« Reply #80 on: June 30, 2014, 11:55:27 AM »

To be honest I like most things in Roman Catholics.  What I don't like, well, that's not the scope of this discussion.

Things I like most: Gregorian chant, Francis of Assisi, Thomas Aquinas,

Sorry to hear that.

 Grin
Logged

"When I hear the words 'Interfaith Dialogue', I reach for my revolver."
Dominika
Serbian/Polish
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church of Poland
Posts: 1,057


St. Luke, pray for us!


WWW
« Reply #81 on: June 30, 2014, 03:59:50 PM »

Corpus Christi feast - of course I don't mean the Eucharist processions that are not Orthodox, but the main idea of it: triumphal coming back to the Great Thursday in the light of the Christ's Resurrection and the descent of the Holy Spirit.

Liturgy of the Great Thursday - done in evening as it should be, the rite of washing the feet in every parish, beautiful hymn Pange Lingua

Paschal Vigil - it's done in the evening, psalm after each reading, beautiful hymn Exsultet

Victimae Paschali Laudes and a few more hymns chanted in gregorian way (but the first one also in a bit specific Polish melody)

The rite of sprinkling ash on the first day of the Great Lent

The service to the Theotokos that it's done in May (it's still be very popular in Poland)

Everyday special early morning Masses in Advent that follows matins and special version of hours (to the Theotokos) - but it's just Polish tradition
Logged

Pray for persecuted Christians, especially in Serbian Kosovo and Raška, Egypt and Syria
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 18,378


"Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee..."


WWW
« Reply #82 on: June 30, 2014, 04:05:23 PM »

Corpus Christi feast - of course I don't mean the Eucharist processions that are not Orthodox, but the main idea of it: triumphal coming back to the Great Thursday in the light of the Christ's Resurrection and the descent of the Holy Spirit.

Liturgy of the Great Thursday - done in evening as it should be, the rite of washing the feet in every parish, beautiful hymn Pange Lingua

Paschal Vigil - it's done in the evening, psalm after each reading, beautiful hymn Exsultet

Victimae Paschali Laudes and a few more hymns chanted in gregorian way (but the first one also in a bit specific Polish melody)

The rite of sprinkling ash on the first day of the Great Lent

The service to the Theotokos that it's done in May (it's still be very popular in Poland)

Everyday special early morning Masses in Advent that follows matins and special version of hours (to the Theotokos) - but it's just Polish tradition

+1
Logged

The Mor has spoken. Let his word endure unto the ages of ages.
Alpo
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Jerkodox
Posts: 6,951



« Reply #83 on: June 30, 2014, 04:11:08 PM »

I have a soft spot for Sacred Heart devotions. I know why we object it but I like the symbolism.
Logged

Papist
Patriarch of Pontification
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Byzantine
Posts: 12,365


Praying for the Christians in Iraq


« Reply #84 on: June 30, 2014, 04:16:56 PM »

To be honest I like most things in Roman Catholics.  What I don't like, well, that's not the scope of this discussion.

Things I like most: Gregorian chant, Francis of Assisi, Thomas Aquinas,

Sorry to hear that.
Cry
Logged

You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.
kelly
UNSUBSCRIBED from the world
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Genuine Kellenic Truest Orthodox Traditionalist Church *of* America
Posts: 1,772


Proverbs 31:13


« Reply #85 on: June 30, 2014, 04:20:12 PM »

I have a soft spot for Sacred Heart devotions. I know why we object it but I like the symbolism.

I  love the imagery of the immaculate heart. Antique holy cards of it are really lovely.
Logged

kelly and I spend all our free time collecting pictures of Russian monarchs.  Its a thing we do.
minasoliman
Mr., Sir, Dude, Guy, Male, tr. Minas in Greek, Menes in white people Egyptologists :-P
Section Moderator
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic Orthodox Archdiocese of North America
Posts: 12,720


Strengthen O Lord the work of Your hands(Is 19:25)


« Reply #86 on: June 30, 2014, 04:23:53 PM »

To be honest I like most things in Roman Catholics.  What I don't like, well, that's not the scope of this discussion.

Things I like most: Gregorian chant, Francis of Assisi, Thomas Aquinas,

Sorry to hear that.
Cry

I know! People give him a bad rap. But really he was quite resourceful for his period.  If anything, his writings were useful for the dominant Islamic philosophies at the time. Whether we admit it or not, all Eastern Churches under Islam have, if not used Aquinas, used his methods.  Islam being scholastic by nature was replied with scholastic means and I for one will be the maverick who will give my hat off to him for being the most successful. I think it's also quite clear that as more scholars will reveal his scholasticism was misused.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2014, 04:25:42 PM by minasoliman » Logged

Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.
TheTrisagion
Armed Feline rider of Flaming Unicorns
Warned
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 9,485



« Reply #87 on: June 30, 2014, 04:29:27 PM »

I kinda wish we had an Ash Wednesday.  I think it is a cool idea.
Logged

Have you considered the possibility that your face is an ad hominem?
Somebody just went all Jack Chick up in here.
The Fool
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian Archdiocese of the British Isles and Ireland
Posts: 216



« Reply #88 on: June 30, 2014, 04:38:15 PM »

I  love the imagery of the immaculate heart. Antique holy cards of it are really lovely.

I've always found it creepy, and I was raised a Catholic.
Logged

"When I hear the words 'Interfaith Dialogue', I reach for my revolver."
Papist
Patriarch of Pontification
Toumarches
************
Offline Offline

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Byzantine
Posts: 12,365


Praying for the Christians in Iraq


« Reply #89 on: June 30, 2014, 04:57:58 PM »

To be honest I like most things in Roman Catholics.  What I don't like, well, that's not the scope of this discussion.

Things I like most: Gregorian chant, Francis of Assisi, Thomas Aquinas,

Sorry to hear that.
Cry

I know! People give him a bad rap. But really he was quite resourceful for his period.  If anything, his writings were useful for the dominant Islamic philosophies at the time. Whether we admit it or not, all Eastern Churches under Islam have, if not used Aquinas, used his methods.  Islam being scholastic by nature was replied with scholastic means and I for one will be the maverick who will give my hat off to him for being the most successful. I think it's also quite clear that as more scholars will reveal his scholasticism was misused.
Agreed. I think that people misunderstand what Thomistic Scholasticism is in general, and often confuse it with decadent forms like that of Scotus, or worse, Occam. The fact of the matter is that Aquinas was quite conscientious about protecting the concept of divine mystery, and a great deal of his philosophical thought is necessary if one wants to remain coherent when dealing with reality as such. What is more, much of what he taught is merely what we know via common sense, but in more rigorous and philosophical justified language.
Logged

You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.
Tags:
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 »   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.17 seconds with 72 queries.