Author Topic: Things you like about those schismatics  (Read 8242 times)

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Offline Nephi

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Re: Things you like about those schismatics
« Reply #45 on: June 28, 2014, 12:22:05 PM »
I think the big exception to what you're outlining is Francis of Assisi.

The conventional Orthodox opinion seems to be that Francis, John of the Cross, Teresa of Ávila and especially, IMO, Thérèse of Lisieux were subject to big time prelest. Maybe it takes one to know one; I try to take my anti-prelest medication every week without over-doing it.

I think much of that is limited to traditionalist sorts of Orthodox. I find the charge of prelest insulting, since almost everything denounced about, e.g., St. Francis of Assisi can be found in Orthodox saints. From crazy visions (St. Seraphim of Sarov) to actively seeking out martyrdom (St. Ignatius of Antioch), there are pretty direct parallels.

Offline Wandile

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Re: Things you like about those schismatics
« Reply #46 on: June 28, 2014, 12:23:01 PM »
I think the big exception to what you're outlining is Francis of Assisi.

The conventional Orthodox opinion seems to be that Francis, John of the Cross, Teresa of Ávila and especially, IMO, Thérèse of Lisieux were subject to big time prelest. Maybe it takes one to know one; I try to take my anti-prelest medication every week without over-doing it.

That is sad ...
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Offline The Fool

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Re: Things you like about those schismatics
« Reply #47 on: June 28, 2014, 12:33:09 PM »
I think much of that is limited to traditionalist sorts of Orthodox. I find the charge of prelest insulting, since almost everything denounced about, e.g., St. Francis of Assisi can be found in Orthodox saints. From crazy visions (St. Seraphim of Sarov) to actively seeking out martyrdom (St. Ignatius of Antioch), there are pretty direct parallels.

We have a problem, if we're using "traditionalist" as a negative. What one needs to do is show that this old-fashioned thing one doesn't like is, in fact, contrary to the real tradition.
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Offline Nephi

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Re: Things you like about those schismatics
« Reply #48 on: June 28, 2014, 12:44:13 PM »
I think much of that is limited to traditionalist sorts of Orthodox. I find the charge of prelest insulting, since almost everything denounced about, e.g., St. Francis of Assisi can be found in Orthodox saints. From crazy visions (St. Seraphim of Sarov) to actively seeking out martyrdom (St. Ignatius of Antioch), there are pretty direct parallels.

We have a problem, if we're using "traditionalist" as a negative. What one needs to do is show that this old-fashioned thing one doesn't like is, in fact, contrary to the real tradition.

Traditionalist is being used to refer to a certain type of people, just like "traditionalist Catholics" means a very specific type of Catholic.

Offline Georgii

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Re: Things you like about those schismatics
« Reply #49 on: June 28, 2014, 12:50:51 PM »
[qany ote author=Porter ODoran link=topic=59271.msg1146593#msg1146593 date=1403971909] it's a little rich to see John of the Cross condemned, seeing as (in my opinion) he just plagiarized the Eastern mystics ...
[/quote]

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« Last Edit: June 28, 2014, 01:07:59 PM by Georgii »
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Offline Peter J

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Re: Things you like about those schismatics
« Reply #50 on: June 28, 2014, 05:11:26 PM »
I like everything about the Orthodox except their rejection of the Pope...

I think my way of putting it was better (granted, I'm a little biased  toward my own wit :angel:):

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Re: Things you like about those schismatics
« Reply #51 on: June 28, 2014, 05:23:13 PM »
I love Gothic cathedrals (the more stained glass and Green Men, the better); Ambrosian, Mozarabic and Gregorian chant, rosaries, and the Camino de Santiago.

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Offline Nicene

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Re: Things you like about those schismatics
« Reply #52 on: June 28, 2014, 05:49:06 PM »
I like that the services are fully in English in English speaking countries.
Thank you.

Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Things you like about those schismatics
« Reply #53 on: June 28, 2014, 07:57:37 PM »
I think the big exception to what you're outlining is Francis of Assisi.

The conventional Orthodox opinion seems to be that Francis, John of the Cross, Teresa of Ávila and especially, IMO, Thérèse of Lisieux were subject to big time prelest. Maybe it takes one to know one; I try to take my anti-prelest medication every week without over-doing it.
Is this your personal opinion or some kind of official  Eastern Orthodox vantage point.

Because you just happen to pick four of the most popular and influential saints and doctors of the RCC.

And basically describe them as kooks.
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Offline Nephi

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Re: Things you like about those schismatics
« Reply #54 on: June 28, 2014, 08:03:26 PM »
Is this your personal opinion or some kind of official  Eastern Orthodox vantage point.

Because you just happen to pick four of the most popular and influential saints and doctors of the RCC.

And basically describe them as kooks.

It's not official, but it's not rare.

See this article contrasting St. Seraphim of Sarov and St. Francis of Assisi. It pretty much affirms the prelest line.

Offline Charles Martel

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Re: Things you like about those schismatics
« Reply #55 on: June 28, 2014, 08:25:03 PM »
Is this your personal opinion or some kind of official  Eastern Orthodox vantage point.

Because you just happen to pick four of the most popular and influential saints and doctors of the RCC.

And basically describe them as kooks.

It's not official, but it's not rare.

See this article contrasting St. Seraphim of Sarov and St. Francis of Assisi. It pretty much affirms the prelest line.
That's a lot of reading. I'll just have to take your word on that one. ;)
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Offline Papist

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Re: Things you like about those schismatics
« Reply #56 on: June 28, 2014, 08:33:35 PM »
With regard to Orthodoxy, there are quite a few things to love:

Emphasis on Christian mysticism

Objectively beautiful icons, architecture, and music

No need to define every aspect of the faith

Love of the Eastern Fathers

Lack of legalism with regard to sin and repentance

The Jesus Prayer

St. Seraphim of Serov

etc. etc. etc.
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Offline Justin Kissel

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Re: Things you like about those schismatics
« Reply #57 on: June 28, 2014, 08:36:48 PM »
Is this your personal opinion or some kind of official  Eastern Orthodox vantage point.

Because you just happen to pick four of the most popular and influential saints and doctors of the RCC.

And basically describe them as kooks.

It's not official, but it's not rare.

See this article contrasting St. Seraphim of Sarov and St. Francis of Assisi. It pretty much affirms the prelest line.

It isn't rare? I must not be paying attention then, because that orthodoxinfo article is the only one of its type I can remember reading in my 14 or so years of familiarity with Orthodoxy. Though if you mean its not rare for people on email lists and discussion boards to make comments along those lines even though they don't have much justification for doing so then I agree.  :angel:

Offline Nephi

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Re: Things you like about those schismatics
« Reply #58 on: June 28, 2014, 09:24:24 PM »
Is this your personal opinion or some kind of official  Eastern Orthodox vantage point.

Because you just happen to pick four of the most popular and influential saints and doctors of the RCC.

And basically describe them as kooks.

It's not official, but it's not rare.

See this article contrasting St. Seraphim of Sarov and St. Francis of Assisi. It pretty much affirms the prelest line.

It isn't rare? I must not be paying attention then, because that orthodoxinfo article is the only one of its type I can remember reading in my 14 or so years of familiarity with Orthodoxy. Though if you mean its not rare for people on email lists and discussion boards to make comments along those lines even though they don't have much justification for doing so then I agree.  :angel:

More of the latter. I've heard it said or at least implied in person a handful of times, but not nearly as much nor as explicit as online.

Although, I wouldn't be surprised if those Greek bishops that wrote that letter to Pope Francis have written something along those lines at some point.

Offline Gunnarr

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Re: Things you like about those schismatics
« Reply #59 on: June 28, 2014, 09:58:44 PM »
Is this your personal opinion or some kind of official  Eastern Orthodox vantage point.

Because you just happen to pick four of the most popular and influential saints and doctors of the RCC.

And basically describe them as kooks.

It's not official, but it's not rare.

See this article contrasting St. Seraphim of Sarov and St. Francis of Assisi. It pretty much affirms the prelest line.

It isn't rare? I must not be paying attention then, because that orthodoxinfo article is the only one of its type I can remember reading in my 14 or so years of familiarity with Orthodoxy. Though if you mean its not rare for people on email lists and discussion boards to make comments along those lines even though they don't have much justification for doing so then I agree.  :angel:

Well I did not read the article listed but i think just comparing those first quotes on the article is enough to see the difference...

also i read the wikipedia article on prelest and wow... it is really on the side of the Eastern Orthodox just saying lol (and surprisingly full of quotes from saints)
« Last Edit: June 28, 2014, 09:59:16 PM by Gunnarr »
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Re: Things you like about those schismatics
« Reply #60 on: June 28, 2014, 09:59:40 PM »
Although, I wouldn't be surprised if those Greek bishops that wrote that letter to Pope Francis have written something along those lines at some point.

There are all sorts of dead bodies in that letter.  :P
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Offline KostaC

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Re: Things you like about those schismatics
« Reply #61 on: June 28, 2014, 10:04:44 PM »
I like that the Catholic club of my university took me in, fed me, and let me do my homework and smoke the occasional cigar on their deck. It meant a lot to me, that I had somewhere to flee to when DC living weighed on me. My OCF only meets on Tuesdays and church is too far away to go by bus everyday, so they became my refuge. Okay yeah, they challenged me to a bet that I lost to attend RCIA for a year which I guess would somehow make me Catholic or something even if I wasn't chrismated, but not everyone's perfect, I s'pose.

But I doubt that's what you all were looking for. I also greatly enjoy Mozarabic, Gregorian, Sarum, Ambrosian, and Gallican chant and liturgy. I hope one day before I die to see an actual, honest-to-God Mozarabic liturgy in the Orthodox Church. Too bad Saints Isidoros and Leandros Spanish Orthodox Church isn't canonical—but that's life, I suppose.
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Offline Deacon Lance

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Re: Things you like about those schismatics
« Reply #62 on: June 29, 2014, 12:45:59 PM »
Is this your personal opinion or some kind of official  Eastern Orthodox vantage point.

Because you just happen to pick four of the most popular and influential saints and doctors of the RCC.

And basically describe them as kooks.

It's not official, but it's not rare.

See this article contrasting St. Seraphim of Sarov and St. Francis of Assisi. It pretty much affirms the prelest line.
Well at least some don't think he is too bad:
http://www.osservatoreromano.va/en/news/opportunity-relaunch-commitment-ecumenism#.U7BB1tq9KSM
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Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Things you like about those schismatics
« Reply #63 on: June 29, 2014, 01:30:01 PM »
Is this your personal opinion or some kind of official  Eastern Orthodox vantage point.

Because you just happen to pick four of the most popular and influential saints and doctors of the RCC.

And basically describe them as kooks.

It's not official, but it's not rare.

See this article contrasting St. Seraphim of Sarov and St. Francis of Assisi. It pretty much affirms the prelest line.

It isn't rare? I must not be paying attention then, because that orthodoxinfo article is the only one of its type I can remember reading in my 14 or so years of familiarity with Orthodoxy. Though if you mean its not rare for people on email lists and discussion boards to make comments along those lines even though they don't have much justification for doing so then I agree.  :angel:

Or, as my mom taught me - "consider the source."

I admire much about the core of Catholicism - but not the chaff of their modernists, their excessive legalism nor the dogmatic definitions of the papacy. BUT, any Faith whose leader can express the mystery and relevance of St John Climacus so movingly and as understandably as does Pope Emeritus Benedict here - http://pittsburghoratory.wordpress.com/2013/06/13/pope-benedict-xvi-on-st-john-climacus-and-the-ladder-of-divine-ascent/ - shares much with us Orthodox  - whether you want to admit it not.

Offline biro

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Re: Things you like about those schismatics
« Reply #64 on: June 29, 2014, 01:44:53 PM »
More things I like: parish fairs! We both have good ones.  :)


Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Things you like about those schismatics
« Reply #65 on: June 29, 2014, 01:49:40 PM »
More things I like: parish fairs! We both have good ones.  :)




We make better holubki than the Greek Catholics. ;)

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Re: Things you like about those schismatics
« Reply #66 on: June 29, 2014, 02:13:58 PM »
More things I like: parish fairs! We both have good ones.  :)



Italian parishes have great festas! 
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Offline The young fogey

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Re: Things you like about those schismatics
« Reply #67 on: June 30, 2014, 02:47:10 AM »
I admire much about the core of Catholicism - but not the chaff of their modernists, their excessive legalism nor the dogmatic definitions of the papacy. BUT, any Faith whose leader can express the mystery and relevance of St John Climacus so movingly and as understandably as does Pope Emeritus Benedict here - http://pittsburghoratory.wordpress.com/2013/06/13/pope-benedict-xvi-on-st-john-climacus-and-the-ladder-of-divine-ascent/ - shares much with us Orthodox  - whether you want to admit it not.

Thanks.

The dogmatic definitions of the papacy didn't cause the 1930s fiasco in America.

The trouble is your group went from the good cause of defending your culture to, understandably resentful that churchmen disrepected your culture and dishonored the act of union that promised to preserve it, buying into the line that your culture is the church (so we're not the church). Then when the third generation in America isn't Carpatho-Russian anymore, they leave.
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Offline Nephi

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Re: Things you like about those schismatics
« Reply #68 on: June 30, 2014, 03:07:56 AM »
Thanks.

The dogmatic definitions of the papacy didn't cause the 1930s fiasco in America.

The trouble is your group went from the good cause of defending your culture to, understandably resentful that churchmen disrepected your culture and dishonored the act of union that promised to preserve it, buying into the line that your culture is the church (so we're not the church). Then when the third generation in America isn't Carpatho-Russian anymore, they leave.

Initializing scan of post...

... "Culture." Three (3) found.
... "The church," "one-true-church," or any other related variant. Two (2) found.
... "Easterners think their culture is the church," or any other related variant. One (1) found.
... Scan complete.

Scan results: another case of TYF copypasta confirmed, immediately disengage.

Offline The young fogey

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Re: Things you like about those schismatics
« Reply #69 on: June 30, 2014, 03:26:16 AM »
One good bit of snark deserves another.

Initializing scan:

Someone posts something knowledgeable and sympathetic about an Orthodox group's grievance but criticizes the Orthodox answer to that grievance.
Online Orthodox goes ad hominem (in the colloquial sense) without disproving the person's point.

Scan complete.
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Offline Peter J

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Re: Things you like about those schismatics
« Reply #70 on: June 30, 2014, 08:36:50 AM »
One good bit of snark deserves another.

Perhaps that's how Nephi justified his post...
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Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Things you like about those schismatics
« Reply #71 on: June 30, 2014, 08:42:58 AM »
I admire much about the core of Catholicism - but not the chaff of their modernists, their excessive legalism nor the dogmatic definitions of the papacy. BUT, any Faith whose leader can express the mystery and relevance of St John Climacus so movingly and as understandably as does Pope Emeritus Benedict here - http://pittsburghoratory.wordpress.com/2013/06/13/pope-benedict-xvi-on-st-john-climacus-and-the-ladder-of-divine-ascent/ - shares much with us Orthodox  - whether you want to admit it not.

Thanks.

The dogmatic definitions of the papacy didn't cause the 1930s fiasco in America.

The trouble is your group went from the good cause of defending your culture to, understandably resentful that churchmen disrepected your culture and dishonored the act of union that promised to preserve it, buying into the line that your culture is the church (so we're not the church). Then when the third generation in America isn't Carpatho-Russian anymore, they leave.

You don't know me or my family personally, nor are you familiar in any non superficial manner with my jurisdiction. If you were, you wouldn't tie anything I post about the Catholic church back to a time before my birth.

Quite frankly, culture among the third generation of Americans of Rusyn ancestry in both the Byzantine Catholic church and those who are now Orthodox in both the ACROD and the OCA is not a unifying glue as it remains in many Greek or Ukrainian communities. But , if you were familiar with us, it would be clear tbat your assertion about youth leaving the church (apparently because it is Orthodox instead of Eastern Catholic) is absurd and not reflected by statistics. The loss of young people within the ACROD (and the OCA for that matter) is an issue as it is in ALL religious groups in America in 2014, but not for the reasons you ascribe. If anythin (for a variety of reasons none of which having a whit of any connection to the Catholic church or our former historical connection with it), the loss ratio in ACROD and OCA may be statistically smaller than the societal norm but family stability within a relatively small population subset probably has more to do with that than anything.

Our young people don't have the same identity issues than do those in the BCC but that would be boasting on my part, I suppose...

And while my grandparents' generation may not have had strictly dogmatic reasons for leaving the Unia, they knew darned well that the Unia had shown itself to be a false construct and that the Faith as they knew it to be  - Eastern , i.e. Orthodox in both taxis and praxis - was always to be a step child in the eyes of the average RCC bishops, clergy and laity regardless of any papal words or synodal pronouncements. Had the Russian Orthodox not acted in such a heavy handed manner in concert with the Godless communist state in Europe following the war, the same consciousness may well have developed in Europe, but  we shall never know.



Offline The Fool

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Re: Things you like about those schismatics
« Reply #72 on: June 30, 2014, 09:03:50 AM »
A thread whose topic is positivity about other communions is not the place for bickering about other communions.
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Offline Peter J

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Re: Things you like about those schismatics
« Reply #73 on: June 30, 2014, 09:15:06 AM »
A thread whose topic is positivity about other communions is not the place for bickering about other communions.

Good point.

Perhaps we need a thread about the "1930s fiasco in America" ... or perhaps we don't. Either way, this thread is not.
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Offline LBK

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Re: Things you like about those schismatics
« Reply #74 on: June 30, 2014, 09:20:39 AM »
I admire much about the core of Catholicism - but not the chaff of their modernists, their excessive legalism nor the dogmatic definitions of the papacy. BUT, any Faith whose leader can express the mystery and relevance of St John Climacus so movingly and as understandably as does Pope Emeritus Benedict here - http://pittsburghoratory.wordpress.com/2013/06/13/pope-benedict-xvi-on-st-john-climacus-and-the-ladder-of-divine-ascent/ - shares much with us Orthodox  - whether you want to admit it not.

Thanks.

The dogmatic definitions of the papacy didn't cause the 1930s fiasco in America.

The trouble is your group went from the good cause of defending your culture to, understandably resentful that churchmen disrepected your culture and dishonored the act of union that promised to preserve it, buying into the line that your culture is the church (so we're not the church). Then when the third generation in America isn't Carpatho-Russian anymore, they leave.

You don't know me or my family personally, nor are you familiar in any non superficial manner with my jurisdiction. If you were, you wouldn't tie anything I post about the Catholic church back to a time before my birth.

Quite frankly, culture among the third generation of Americans of Rusyn ancestry in both the Byzantine Catholic church and those who are now Orthodox in both the ACROD and the OCA is not a unifying glue as it remains in many Greek or Ukrainian communities. But , if you were familiar with us, it would be clear tbat your assertion about youth leaving the church (apparently because it is Orthodox instead of Eastern Catholic) is absurd and not reflected by statistics. The loss of young people within the ACROD (and the OCA for that matter) is an issue as it is in ALL religious groups in America in 2014, but not for the reasons you ascribe. If anythin (for a variety of reasons none of which having a whit of any connection to the Catholic church or our former historical connection with it), the loss ratio in ACROD and OCA may be statistically smaller than the societal norm but family stability within a relatively small population subset probably has more to do with that than anything.

Our young people don't have the same identity issues than do those in the BCC but that would be boasting on my part, I suppose...

And while my grandparents' generation may not have had strictly dogmatic reasons for leaving the Unia, they knew darned well that the Unia had shown itself to be a false construct and that the Faith as they knew it to be  - Eastern , i.e. Orthodox in both taxis and praxis - was always to be a step child in the eyes of the average RCC bishops, clergy and laity regardless of any papal words or synodal pronouncements. Had the Russian Orthodox not acted in such a heavy handed manner in concert with the Godless communist state in Europe following the war, the same consciousness may well have developed in Europe, but  we shall never know.




Hear hear! I'd rather accept the testimony of someone like podkarpatska, whose direct and ancestral experience spans more than a century, than the pontifications of Johnny-come-latelys.
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Offline jah777

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Re: Things you like about those schismatics
« Reply #75 on: June 30, 2014, 10:55:28 AM »
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Offline minasoliman

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Re: Things you like about those schismatics
« Reply #76 on: June 30, 2014, 11:08:55 AM »
To be honest I like most things in Roman Catholics.  What I don't like, well, that's not the scope of this discussion.

Things I like most: Gregorian chant, Francis of Assisi, Thomas Aquinas, the desire for dialogue and unity without conciliar or canonical saint fundamentalism (although the papal infallibility is a thorn), and maybe perhaps the ability to convene councils at will (although again I wouldn't agree with papal infallibility in this as well)
« Last Edit: June 30, 2014, 11:09:09 AM by minasoliman »
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« Last Edit: June 30, 2014, 11:24:06 AM by Mor Ephrem »
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Offline Peter J

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Re: Things you like about those schismatics
« Reply #78 on: June 30, 2014, 11:36:15 AM »
To be honest I like most things in Roman Catholics.  What I don't like, well, that's not the scope of this discussion.

Things I like most: Gregorian chant, Francis of Assisi, Thomas Aquinas,

Sorry to hear that.
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Re: Things you like about those schismatics
« Reply #79 on: June 30, 2014, 11:40:39 AM »
My grandfather. Best mark in their favor for me.
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Re: Things you like about those schismatics
« Reply #80 on: June 30, 2014, 11:55:27 AM »
To be honest I like most things in Roman Catholics.  What I don't like, well, that's not the scope of this discussion.

Things I like most: Gregorian chant, Francis of Assisi, Thomas Aquinas,

Sorry to hear that.

 ;D
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Re: Things you like about those schismatics
« Reply #81 on: June 30, 2014, 03:59:50 PM »
Corpus Christi feast - of course I don't mean the Eucharist processions that are not Orthodox, but the main idea of it: triumphal coming back to the Great Thursday in the light of the Christ's Resurrection and the descent of the Holy Spirit.

Liturgy of the Great Thursday - done in evening as it should be, the rite of washing the feet in every parish, beautiful hymn Pange Lingua

Paschal Vigil - it's done in the evening, psalm after each reading, beautiful hymn Exsultet

Victimae Paschali Laudes and a few more hymns chanted in gregorian way (but the first one also in a bit specific Polish melody)

The rite of sprinkling ash on the first day of the Great Lent

The service to the Theotokos that it's done in May (it's still be very popular in Poland)

Everyday special early morning Masses in Advent that follows matins and special version of hours (to the Theotokos) - but it's just Polish tradition
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Re: Things you like about those schismatics
« Reply #82 on: June 30, 2014, 04:05:23 PM »
Corpus Christi feast - of course I don't mean the Eucharist processions that are not Orthodox, but the main idea of it: triumphal coming back to the Great Thursday in the light of the Christ's Resurrection and the descent of the Holy Spirit.

Liturgy of the Great Thursday - done in evening as it should be, the rite of washing the feet in every parish, beautiful hymn Pange Lingua

Paschal Vigil - it's done in the evening, psalm after each reading, beautiful hymn Exsultet

Victimae Paschali Laudes and a few more hymns chanted in gregorian way (but the first one also in a bit specific Polish melody)

The rite of sprinkling ash on the first day of the Great Lent

The service to the Theotokos that it's done in May (it's still be very popular in Poland)

Everyday special early morning Masses in Advent that follows matins and special version of hours (to the Theotokos) - but it's just Polish tradition

+1
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Offline Alpo

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Re: Things you like about those schismatics
« Reply #83 on: June 30, 2014, 04:11:08 PM »
I have a soft spot for Sacred Heart devotions. I know why we object it but I like the symbolism.
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Re: Things you like about those schismatics
« Reply #84 on: June 30, 2014, 04:16:56 PM »
To be honest I like most things in Roman Catholics.  What I don't like, well, that's not the scope of this discussion.

Things I like most: Gregorian chant, Francis of Assisi, Thomas Aquinas,

Sorry to hear that.
:'(
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Re: Things you like about those schismatics
« Reply #85 on: June 30, 2014, 04:20:12 PM »
I have a soft spot for Sacred Heart devotions. I know why we object it but I like the symbolism.

I  love the imagery of the immaculate heart. Antique holy cards of it are really lovely.
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Re: Things you like about those schismatics
« Reply #86 on: June 30, 2014, 04:23:53 PM »
To be honest I like most things in Roman Catholics.  What I don't like, well, that's not the scope of this discussion.

Things I like most: Gregorian chant, Francis of Assisi, Thomas Aquinas,

Sorry to hear that.
:'(

I know! People give him a bad rap. But really he was quite resourceful for his period.  If anything, his writings were useful for the dominant Islamic philosophies at the time. Whether we admit it or not, all Eastern Churches under Islam have, if not used Aquinas, used his methods.  Islam being scholastic by nature was replied with scholastic means and I for one will be the maverick who will give my hat off to him for being the most successful. I think it's also quite clear that as more scholars will reveal his scholasticism was misused.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2014, 04:25:42 PM by minasoliman »
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Re: Things you like about those schismatics
« Reply #87 on: June 30, 2014, 04:29:27 PM »
I kinda wish we had an Ash Wednesday.  I think it is a cool idea.
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Re: Things you like about those schismatics
« Reply #88 on: June 30, 2014, 04:38:15 PM »
I  love the imagery of the immaculate heart. Antique holy cards of it are really lovely.

I've always found it creepy, and I was raised a Catholic.
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Re: Things you like about those schismatics
« Reply #89 on: June 30, 2014, 04:57:58 PM »
To be honest I like most things in Roman Catholics.  What I don't like, well, that's not the scope of this discussion.

Things I like most: Gregorian chant, Francis of Assisi, Thomas Aquinas,

Sorry to hear that.
:'(

I know! People give him a bad rap. But really he was quite resourceful for his period.  If anything, his writings were useful for the dominant Islamic philosophies at the time. Whether we admit it or not, all Eastern Churches under Islam have, if not used Aquinas, used his methods.  Islam being scholastic by nature was replied with scholastic means and I for one will be the maverick who will give my hat off to him for being the most successful. I think it's also quite clear that as more scholars will reveal his scholasticism was misused.
Agreed. I think that people misunderstand what Thomistic Scholasticism is in general, and often confuse it with decadent forms like that of Scotus, or worse, Occam. The fact of the matter is that Aquinas was quite conscientious about protecting the concept of divine mystery, and a great deal of his philosophical thought is necessary if one wants to remain coherent when dealing with reality as such. What is more, much of what he taught is merely what we know via common sense, but in more rigorous and philosophical justified language.
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