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Author Topic: Things you like about those schismatics  (Read 6226 times) Average Rating: 0
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minasoliman
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« Reply #225 on: July 02, 2014, 11:47:23 PM »

It's not uncommon for a black person to feel unconscious ambivalence about the qualities of black people. But that's a whole other subject.

As for large buildings, they were not "needed" by anybody in Europe, either, until a certain age had come to pass. However, this did not prevent the Gothic from being a most characteristic style. Look at the wood-cathedrals of Norway! My observation of Africa is that so many of her cultures are rich with art and local sensibility. It is unthinkable to me that these could not be writ large. Colonialism, however, with which Christianity into most of Africa was tightly bound up, was a violent overthrow of cultures and not a spreading of ideas. Gothic cities flourished up to the High Middle Ages upon a system wholly different from that of the Roman town -- where they were inspired to build a cathedral, it was as though a friendly fire of the Roman idea caught the local imagination and was refracted into a new ideal. While the colonization of Africa and simultaneous Christianization was nothing like this, was its opposite, was burning and destruction.

So in essence we should develop our own style. Maybe some day, or maybe not. Either way its just not our culture. It could be part of a new era. Like I said it would be a novelty. Novelty isn't a bad thing but it must be remembered that it is just that... A novelty. Its not really a bad thing if we like the Italian style churches or whatever. I prefer various types of art sub-cultures to one. I like the fact that there can exist different types of architecture from around the world. Its just that my point is that African culture is so different to this. Like we can never say that "this cathedral is designed in Zulu style or Shona style because large buildings are not an outgrowth of the cultures in Africa but a foreign concept that we are trying to incorporate. I wouldn't mind seeing a church with Ndebele patterns though. But that is the most Ndebele the church building will ever be.


What about Great Zimbabwe? Their great stone walls and buildings gave Europe a run for its money.


I also don't see why everyone is bemoaning this discussion as one big ole' hate fest. I think this has been a great round of discussion, personally. I don't hold anything against Mr. The Young Fogey or anyone else here. It seems like too many times honestly stating our opinions is frowned upon and the "Christ wants us to reunite!" card is thrown around when someone doesn't agree with the whole feel-good ecumenism of the 21st Century. I have stated what I liked about the Catholic Church, but as a whole I don't like it. That's why I'm not Catholic, plain and simple, and why I'm not scrambling to get communion at a Catholic church when my best friends tell me to. I think we have two completely different faiths and I do not think that we are the same Church, and I encourage anyone to try to change my mind in the spirit of friendly debate.

The point is not that no one is trying to force you take an opinion to like the Catholic Church and seek unity; the point is the subject of the OP degenerated into dislikes when in fact this thread is supposed to be about what you like about them.  It's just a matter of organizational issues.  That's why Justin's 4 laws of forumdynamics applies in this case.  It's a bemoaning of the inevitable off-topic discussion, not of your views.
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« Reply #226 on: July 02, 2014, 11:47:44 PM »

Don't forget Egyptian architecture, or the buildings at Petra, either.

mentioned the north Africans already. Although much of their culture is influenced by Sudanese and Ethiopian culture. Well ancient Egypt that is.
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« Reply #227 on: July 02, 2014, 11:55:03 PM »

Wandile -- You're overlooking the glaring fact that an unmolested culture can grow in one direction or another, but that this gift is taken from cultures usurped. Whether some architectural bigwig could dig in the rubble of Africa and pull forth enough for a synthesis with a Western church is not pertinent (unless backhandedly to illustrate that local cultures have mostly become an inert rubble).

But...But...THE POPE!!!

How old are you again?
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« Reply #228 on: July 03, 2014, 12:12:01 AM »

Wandile -- You're overlooking the glaring fact that an unmolested culture can grow in one direction or another, but that this gift is taken from cultures usurped. Whether some architectural bigwig could dig in the rubble of Africa and pull forth enough for a synthesis with a Western church is not pertinent (unless backhandedly to illustrate that local cultures have mostly become an inert rubble).

But...But...THE POPE!!!

How old are you again?

Antique of Days.
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« Reply #229 on: July 03, 2014, 12:53:30 AM »

Don't forget Egyptian architecture, or the buildings at Petra, either.

mentioned the north Africans already. Although much of their culture is influenced by Sudanese and Ethiopian culture. Well ancient Egypt that is.

Ancient Egyptian architecture went to ancient Crete and became the germ for the architecture of Greece (each stage was, of course, an important and beautiful departure from before). So it could be argued in some tortuous fashion that Rome (Old or New) belongs in Africa after all. Wink
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« Reply #230 on: July 03, 2014, 01:15:59 AM »

Ancient Egyptian architecture went to ancient Crete and became the germ for the architecture of Greece (each stage was, of course, an important and beautiful departure from before). So it could be argued in some tortuous fashion that Rome (Old or New) belongs in Africa after all. Wink

It is, however, important to note that the Egyptians were not black and had almost nothing to do with black Africans. North Africa was always part of the European/Mediterranean sphere before Islam separated it. Being on the same landmass doesn't make Egypt "African" in the sense we usually mean that term.
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« Reply #231 on: July 03, 2014, 01:29:12 AM »

Egyptians weren't Semitic or Indo-European and there was really a great cultural divide between the three ancient Mediterranean groups. I'd say it's perfectly safe to call Egypt uniquely African.
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« Reply #232 on: July 03, 2014, 01:30:07 AM »

As for skin color, I'm not quite sure what you're on about.
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« Reply #233 on: July 03, 2014, 02:21:30 AM »

and yet did I not say most? Show me such in tshitsonga, Venda, Tswana, Sotho or sepedi culture groups please?
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« Reply #234 on: July 03, 2014, 07:31:17 AM »

Ancient Egyptian architecture went to ancient Crete and became the germ for the architecture of Greece (each stage was, of course, an important and beautiful departure from before). So it could be argued in some tortuous fashion that Rome (Old or New) belongs in Africa after all. Wink

It is, however, important to note that the Egyptians were not black and had almost nothing to do with black Africans. North Africa was always part of the European/Mediterranean sphere before Islam separated it. Being on the same landmass doesn't make Egypt "African" in the sense we usually mean that term.

Hmm tell that to the ancient Egyptians who painted themselves as black people with brown skin and curly black hair. They even account for their origins as coming from the mountains of Ethiopia. That's why even today the Ethiopians boast that Egypt was a colony of theirs. Have you seen what Ethiopians look like lately?
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« Reply #235 on: July 03, 2014, 07:38:48 AM »

and yet did I not say most? Show me such in tshitsonga, Venda, Tswana, Sotho or sepedi culture groups please?


and that would be?
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« Reply #236 on: July 03, 2014, 07:46:07 AM »

Isa posts lots of things that make no sense. Don't worry, this is per standard. Just do a crossword or something. You'll be okay.  Smiley
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« Reply #237 on: July 03, 2014, 07:48:20 AM »

Isa posts lots of things that make no sense. Don't worry, this is per standard. Just do a crossword or something. You'll be okay.  Smiley

Google Image Search is your friend:

http://www.viewzone.com/adamscalendar.html

 Wink
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« Reply #238 on: July 03, 2014, 08:04:45 AM »

Isa posts lots of things that make no sense. Don't worry, this is per standard. Just do a crossword or something. You'll be okay.  Smiley

Google Image Search is your friend:

http://www.viewzone.com/adamscalendar.html

 Wink

That article pretty much burns the idea that those stoke constructs are Sotho,Sepedi or Tswana. It says they cole from thousands of years ago. The Bantu people settles in southern Africa barely a thousand years ago.

but this is waaaaay off topic. Can we go back to the actual topic? Smiley
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« Reply #239 on: July 03, 2014, 08:46:55 AM »

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« Reply #240 on: July 03, 2014, 09:05:27 AM »



Me too.
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« Reply #241 on: July 03, 2014, 09:26:41 AM »

Isa posts lots of things that make no sense. Don't worry, this is per standard. Just do a crossword or something. You'll be okay.  Smiley
sorry, I'm not your screen.
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« Reply #242 on: July 03, 2014, 09:31:01 AM »

Isa posts lots of things that make no sense. Don't worry, this is per standard. Just do a crossword or something. You'll be okay.  Smiley

He seems like a fine fellow to me.
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« Reply #243 on: July 03, 2014, 09:37:54 AM »

Isa posts lots of things that make no sense. Don't worry, this is per standard. Just do a crossword or something. You'll be okay.  Smiley

Google Image Search is your friend:

http://www.viewzone.com/adamscalendar.html

 Wink

That article pretty much burns the idea that those stoke constructs are Sotho,Sepedi or Tswana. It says they cole from thousands of years ago. The Bantu people settles in southern Africa barely a thousand years ago.

but this is waaaaay off topic. Can we go back to the actual topic? Smiley
right after I point out that this should have warned you about the "burn"
Quote
The rocks were covered with a patina that looked very old but there were no items sufficient for carbon-14 dating.
carbon-14 dating can only date organic matter. Patina is inorganic.

Back to our original program-I can't remember if I mentioned the fact that every Orthodox Church I've attended had publications of the services done by the Vatican.  The copy is often very superior to what we produce.
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« Reply #244 on: July 03, 2014, 12:19:29 PM »

I love St. Giuseppe Moscati and St. Damien of Molokai.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giuseppe_Moscati
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Father_Damien

Two examples of what every Christian should be.
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« Reply #245 on: July 03, 2014, 07:46:30 PM »

http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20140702-brazils-most-beautiful-churches

Here is a slideshow about some lovely churches in Brazil.
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« Reply #246 on: July 04, 2014, 05:01:42 PM »

A local Baptist church has a food bank which anyone who is needy can stock up, you need only attend a short service.

There are no other local churches which do this, including all the Orthodox.
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« Reply #247 on: July 04, 2014, 05:29:09 PM »

A local Baptist church has a food bank which anyone who is needy can stock up, you need only attend a short service.

There are no other local churches which do this, including all the Orthodox.

Thank God.  The Orthodox should do that without requiring anyone to go to church.
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« Reply #248 on: July 04, 2014, 05:45:17 PM »

A local Baptist church has a food bank which anyone who is needy can stock up, you need only attend a short service.

There are no other local churches which do this, including all the Orthodox.

Thank God.  The Orthodox should do that without requiring anyone to go to church.

Thank God that only the local Baptist church does that? I need to think about that one.
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« Reply #249 on: July 04, 2014, 05:56:01 PM »

A local Baptist church has a food bank which anyone who is needy can stock up, you need only attend a short service.

There are no other local churches which do this, including all the Orthodox.

Thank God.  The Orthodox should do that without requiring anyone to go to church.

Thank God that only the local Baptist church does that? I need to think about that one.

Take all the time you need.  I understand. 
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« Reply #250 on: July 04, 2014, 07:05:27 PM »

A local Baptist church has a food bank which anyone who is needy can stock up, you need only attend a short service.

There are no other local churches which do this, including all the Orthodox.

Thank God.  The Orthodox should do that without requiring anyone to go to church.

Thank God that only the local Baptist church does that? I need to think about that one.
People shouldn't be coerced into services through charity.  If it isn't given with no strings attached it is just proselytizing.
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« Reply #251 on: July 04, 2014, 07:28:32 PM »

A local Baptist church has a food bank which anyone who is needy can stock up, you need only attend a short service.

There are no other local churches which do this, including all the Orthodox.

Thank God.  The Orthodox should do that without requiring anyone to go to church.

Thank God that only the local Baptist church does that? I need to think about that one.

Really? You need to think about that?
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« Reply #252 on: July 04, 2014, 09:48:45 PM »

A local Baptist church has a food bank which anyone who is needy can stock up, you need only attend a short service.

There are no other local churches which do this, including all the Orthodox.

Thank God.  The Orthodox should do that without requiring anyone to go to church.

Our local Council of Churches has run a food bank, community gardens and a food co-op for twenty years, no strings attached and it is supported by not only the Protestants, but us and the Catholics as well. It is a wonderful endeavor and reflects that to which we Christian are  charged. http://broomecouncil.net/chow/
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« Reply #253 on: July 04, 2014, 10:00:40 PM »

A local Baptist church has a food bank which anyone who is needy can stock up, you need only attend a short service.

There are no other local churches which do this, including all the Orthodox.
Sinful, IIRC you're in Chicago, no?
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« Reply #254 on: July 04, 2014, 10:29:19 PM »

A local Baptist church has a food bank which anyone who is needy can stock up, you need only attend a short service.

There are no other local churches which do this, including all the Orthodox.
Sinful, IIRC you're in Chicago, no?

That would be impossible. I volunteer at Annunciation Cathedral's soup kitchen where the only indoctrination that goes on is Fr. Nikocavouras or his Eminence Iakovos blesses the food, and Christ the Savior Cathedral has an outreach program to Lawndale. There are too many churches in the Metro area to not have some sort of outreach program.
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« Reply #255 on: July 04, 2014, 11:10:35 PM »

A local Baptist church has a food bank which anyone who is needy can stock up, you need only attend a short service.

There are no other local churches which do this, including all the Orthodox.
Sinful, IIRC you're in Chicago, no?

That would be impossible. I volunteer at Annunciation Cathedral's soup kitchen where the only indoctrination that goes on is Fr. Nikocavouras or his Eminence Iakovos blesses the food, and Christ the Savior Cathedral has an outreach program to Lawndale. There are too many churches in the Metro area to not have some sort of outreach program.
yes, our parish itself doesn't have anything (we did sponsor as many Sudanese refugees as we could, and have charities abroad in Albania etc) but instead works through a number of soup kitchens the Vatican runs, sponsoring a school it runs in the inner city, etc.  I know the Greek Church by my mother in Des Plaines has continuous food drives, clothing drives etc...  The only "indoctrination" is we pray before the clients are let in.
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« Reply #256 on: July 05, 2014, 01:20:38 AM »

yes, our parish itself doesn't have anything (we did sponsor as many Sudanese refugees as we could, and have charities abroad in Albania etc) but instead works through a number of soup kitchens the Vatican runs, sponsoring a school it runs in the inner city, etc.  I know the Greek Church by my mother in Des Plaines has continuous food drives, clothing drives etc...  The only "indoctrination" is we pray before the clients are let in.

Ha, I knew I should've included quotes on "indoctrination." For what it's worth, Father or his Eminence also thanks everyone from coming out, too. It's not like we force everyone in the church for Divine Liturgy and a mandatory chrismation; what are we, Potato Famine era Anglican "philanthropists?"
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« Reply #257 on: July 05, 2014, 07:07:24 AM »

A local Baptist church has a food bank which anyone who is needy can stock up, you need only attend a short service.

There are no other local churches which do this, including all the Orthodox.

Thank God.  The Orthodox should do that without requiring anyone to go to church.

Thank God that only the local Baptist church does that? I need to think about that one.

Really? You need to think about that?

Well, admittedly my post was on the side of reticence. But, yes, I will stick with that as my response to the fact that the response to #246 was not "We should feed the hungry" but rather Thank God that we aren't like that Baptist church that only gives food to those who attend a certain service.

P.S. This is probably unnecessary to say, but I'll say it anyhow: I am not Baptist.
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« Reply #258 on: July 05, 2014, 10:33:44 AM »

A local Baptist church has a food bank which anyone who is needy can stock up, you need only attend a short service.

There are no other local churches which do this, including all the Orthodox.

Thank God.  The Orthodox should do that without requiring anyone to go to church.

Thank God that only the local Baptist church does that? I need to think about that one.

Really? You need to think about that?

Well, admittedly my post was on the side of reticence. But, yes, I will stick with that as my response to the fact that the response to #246 was not "We should feed the hungry" but rather Thank God that we aren't like that Baptist church that only gives food to those who attend a certain service.

P.S. This is probably unnecessary to say, but I'll say it anyhow: I am not Baptist.

Thank God the Orthodox or Catholics provide services without requiring anything in return.
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« Reply #259 on: July 05, 2014, 11:31:32 AM »

Well, admittedly my post was on the side of reticence. But, yes, I will stick with that as my response to the fact that the response to #246 was not "We should feed the hungry" but rather Thank God that we aren't like that Baptist church that only gives food to those who attend a certain service.

P.S. This is probably unnecessary to say, but I'll say it anyhow: I am not Baptist.

Exactly how much of the Gospel am I required to reiterate in any given post?  You criticise me for not having said "We should feed the hungry", whereas I took that as a given while reiterating "Freely you have received, freely give".   

Giving with strings attached has been an evangelistic tool of your Church for a long time, and the examples I'm personally familiar with are all post-Vatican II.  The only surprise about your not having any problems with this method is that you actually came out, owned it, and promoted it.  Usually it's difficult to figure out if you believe anything that requires taking a stand, but this was crystal clear.

BTW, quote me properly or leave me out of it.  I did not say "Thank God that we aren't like that Baptist church that only gives food to those who attend a certain service".  I said "Thank God.  The Orthodox should do that without requiring anyone to go to church".  "Do that" refers, of course, to feeding the hungry (referred to in the previous reply).     
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« Reply #260 on: July 05, 2014, 11:33:07 AM »

More stuff I like about those schismatics: my Mom and Dad.  Smiley
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« Reply #261 on: July 05, 2014, 03:01:14 PM »

Well, admittedly my post was on the side of reticence. But, yes, I will stick with that as my response to the fact that the response to #246 was not "We should feed the hungry" but rather Thank God that we aren't like that Baptist church that only gives food to those who attend a certain service.

P.S. This is probably unnecessary to say, but I'll say it anyhow: I am not Baptist.

Exactly how much of the Gospel am I required to reiterate in any given post?  You criticise me for not having said "We should feed the hungry", whereas I took that as a given while reiterating "Freely you have received, freely give".  

Giving with strings attached has been an evangelistic tool of your Church for a long time, and the examples I'm personally familiar with are all post-Vatican II.  The only surprise about your not having any problems with this method is that you actually came out, owned it, and promoted it.  Usually it's difficult to figure out if you believe anything that requires taking a stand, but this was crystal clear.

BTW, quote me properly or leave me out of it.  I did not say "Thank God that we aren't like that Baptist church that only gives food to those who attend a certain service".  I said "Thank God. The Orthodox should do that without requiring anyone to go to church".  "Do that" refers, of course, to feeding the hungry (referred to in the previous reply).      

I don't know whether you're trying to put words in my mouth or not, but you should at least reread what I said.

If what I said earlier was misleading, I apologize, and will try to begin again. I have no wish to promote that Baptist church's approach, but I do take notice of the fact that they're the only area church feeding the hungry, and I would guess they are "doing their best" so to speak. I'm not sure now whether standing up for them was wise or not, but such is life.
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« Reply #262 on: July 06, 2014, 02:27:34 PM »

I'd rather starve than be forced to attend a short Baptist service to get food. That's begging more than asking for help.
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« Reply #263 on: July 06, 2014, 02:41:36 PM »

I'd rather starve than be forced to attend a short Baptist service to get food. That's begging more than asking for help.

I'd think it's wise not to comment when you aren't starving on what petty thing you wouldn't do to get food.
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« Reply #264 on: July 06, 2014, 02:57:02 PM »

Well, admittedly my post was on the side of reticence. But, yes, I will stick with that as my response to the fact that the response to #246 was not "We should feed the hungry" but rather Thank God that we aren't like that Baptist church that only gives food to those who attend a certain service.

P.S. This is probably unnecessary to say, but I'll say it anyhow: I am not Baptist.

Exactly how much of the Gospel am I required to reiterate in any given post?  You criticise me for not having said "We should feed the hungry", whereas I took that as a given while reiterating "Freely you have received, freely give".   

Giving with strings attached has been an evangelistic tool of your Church for a long time, and the examples I'm personally familiar with are all post-Vatican II.  The only surprise about your not having any problems with this method is that you actually came out, owned it, and promoted it.  Usually it's difficult to figure out if you believe anything that requires taking a stand, but this was crystal clear.

BTW, quote me properly or leave me out of it.  I did not say "Thank God that we aren't like that Baptist church that only gives food to those who attend a certain service".  I said "Thank God. The Orthodox should do that without requiring anyone to go to church".  "Do that" refers, of course, to feeding the hungry (referred to in the previous reply).     

I don't know whether you're trying to put words in my mouth or not, but you should at least reread what I said.

If what I said earlier was misleading, I apologize, and will try to begin again. I have no wish to promote that Baptist church's approach, but I do take notice of the fact that they're the only area church feeding the hungry, and I would guess they are "doing their best" so to speak. I'm not sure now whether standing up for them was wise or not, but such is life.

If the they're the only ones actually giving service to the homeless in the area, then it's even worse.  It is a tyranny of the poor, and the faith becomes an imposition, rather than freedom.  The Muslim Brotherhood have practiced this for decades. They won many souls under their tyrannical services.  It's sad that only the Baptists in that area provide services.  But it comes to show how devoid of Christianity these people have become.  "Give, asking nothing in return", The Lord said.  This should be an encouragement to set up another mission to help the poor without any strings attached.
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« Reply #265 on: July 06, 2014, 05:44:41 PM »

In fairness, our Church has for years volunteered at the Catholic charities homeless shelter once a month, but there is a lack of food banks where you can get groceries, which is what many need.

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« Reply #266 on: July 06, 2014, 08:52:58 PM »

A local Baptist church has a food bank which anyone who is needy can stock up, you need only attend a short service.

There are no other local churches which do this, including all the Orthodox.
Sinful, IIRC you're in Chicago, no?

That would be impossible. I volunteer at Annunciation Cathedral's soup kitchen where the only indoctrination that goes on is Fr. Nikocavouras or his Eminence Iakovos blesses the food, and Christ the Savior Cathedral has an outreach program to Lawndale. There are too many churches in the Metro area to not have some sort of outreach program.
yes, our parish itself doesn't have anything (we did sponsor as many Sudanese refugees as we could, and have charities abroad in Albania etc) but instead works through a number of soup kitchens the Vatican runs, sponsoring a school it runs in the inner city, etc.  I know the Greek Church by my mother in Des Plaines has continuous food drives, clothing drives etc...  The only "indoctrination" is we pray before the clients are let in.

The Vatican runs soup kitchens in Chicago? You're being silly.  Come on, well intentioned local Roman Catholics run them, probably retired school teachers,cook,  social workers, regular grandmas and grandpops  etc.... That's like saying the Phanar or the Kremlin run them in Greek or  Russian Orthodox parishes.
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« Reply #267 on: July 06, 2014, 10:18:18 PM »

A local Baptist church has a food bank which anyone who is needy can stock up, you need only attend a short service.

There are no other local churches which do this, including all the Orthodox.
Sinful, IIRC you're in Chicago, no?

That would be impossible. I volunteer at Annunciation Cathedral's soup kitchen where the only indoctrination that goes on is Fr. Nikocavouras or his Eminence Iakovos blesses the food, and Christ the Savior Cathedral has an outreach program to Lawndale. There are too many churches in the Metro area to not have some sort of outreach program.
yes, our parish itself doesn't have anything (we did sponsor as many Sudanese refugees as we could, and have charities abroad in Albania etc) but instead works through a number of soup kitchens the Vatican runs, sponsoring a school it runs in the inner city, etc.  I know the Greek Church by my mother in Des Plaines has continuous food drives, clothing drives etc...  The only "indoctrination" is we pray before the clients are let in.

The Vatican runs soup kitchens in Chicago? You're being silly.  Come on, well intentioned local Roman Catholics run them, probably retired school teachers,cook,  social workers, regular grandmas and grandpops  etc.... That's like saying the Phanar or the Kremlin run them in Greek or  Russian Orthodox parishes.
no, the push back on the Phanar trying (signing over property here to it in each of its dioceses) in imitating the Vatican belies that.
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« Reply #268 on: July 06, 2014, 11:18:54 PM »

I'd rather starve than be forced to attend a short Baptist service to get food. That's begging more than asking for help.

I'd think it's wise not to comment when you aren't starving on what petty thing you wouldn't do to get food.
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« Reply #269 on: July 06, 2014, 11:38:12 PM »

I'd rather starve than be forced to attend a short Baptist service to get food. That's begging more than asking for help.

I'd think it's wise not to comment when you aren't starving on what petty thing you wouldn't do to get food.
You don't know me mate...you don't know what I've been through.

That is true. It seemed like a safe assumption to make.
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