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Author Topic: Vassula Ryden Excommunicated  (Read 58673 times) Average Rating: 0
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PeterTheAleut
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« Reply #180 on: January 01, 2008, 05:52:23 AM »

All these images are non-canonical, they are not part of the authentic Tradition of the Ekklesia. Images of Christ or His Mother are not to be "worldly" or earthly looking. The images or if you prefer your photographs  are not to be venerated and are contrary to the holy canons of the Church.
Somehow, I don't think mmaccs cares whether these pictures are consistent with Holy Tradition and worthy of veneration.  I gather that the OP is asserting, instead, that these images are realistic portraits of Christ as He appeared when He walked this earth.  Evidently, mmaccs thinks Christ appeared to him personally and looks very similar to the man pictured in these images.
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« Reply #181 on: January 01, 2008, 06:16:59 AM »

FWIW, when Christ revealed Himself to me with the reflection on my bathroom wall (in pretty damn clear detail), it was the long-faced, long-nosed, long-haired, hair-parted, bearded 'version'... the face on the Shroud. It was a miracle.

So, personally, I think these photographs, portraits and images are genuine.


Its just so weired the Lord Would  appear in your bathroom ,,in your private time he couldn't wait till you exited  .... stashko......SmileyCentral.com" border="0
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« Reply #182 on: January 01, 2008, 09:15:47 AM »

I think we've had enough fun.  No more supposed photos of the Lord.  Thank you!

Anyone reading this thread who may think that the photos are 'legit' should heed the warnings of many of the users as to their "authenticity" or lack thereof.

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« Reply #183 on: November 19, 2008, 01:23:22 AM »

Hi,

I realize that links about Vassula's excommunion are out of date,

this is the link out dated

http://www.ecclesia.gr/greek/holysynod/commitees/heresies/heresies-0008.htm

I'm looking for a link to official web site of an Orthodox Church in english or spanish that contains the Vassula's excommunion

I think this informations is useful because there are people that belief Vassula is an Orthodox christian in communion with Orthodox Church.

« Last Edit: November 19, 2008, 01:26:09 AM by Luis_Garza » Logged
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« Reply #184 on: November 19, 2008, 01:52:38 AM »

I think I already linked this, but reply 4 of this thread has a translation of the excommunication:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,9511.msg128071.html#msg128071

I also would not mind seeing an official Orthodox Church website post her excommunication in English and even discuss it.  I'm also surprised at the lack of printed material on her, outside of the internet.  I'm waiting for someone to produce a pamphlet discussing her and warning about her.  Printing out pages from the internet and handing them to someone is not as easy as just having a pamphlet to hand out. 
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« Reply #185 on: November 20, 2008, 10:50:51 AM »

I think I already linked this, but reply 4 of this thread has a translation of the excommunication:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,9511.msg128071.html#msg128071

I also would not mind seeing an official Orthodox Church website post her excommunication in English and even discuss it.  I'm also surprised at the lack of printed material on her, outside of the internet.  I'm waiting for someone to produce a pamphlet discussing her and warning about her.  Printing out pages from the internet and handing them to someone is not as easy as just having a pamphlet to hand out. 
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« Reply #186 on: November 20, 2008, 11:02:52 AM »

I think I already linked this, but reply 4 of this thread has a translation of the excommunication:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,9511.msg128071.html#msg128071

I also would not mind seeing an official Orthodox Church website post her excommunication in English and even discuss it.  I'm also surprised at the lack of printed material on her, outside of the internet.  I'm waiting for someone to produce a pamphlet discussing her and warning about her.  Printing out pages from the internet and handing them to someone is not as easy as just having a pamphlet to hand out. 

yes I saw that, but there are people that say excommunicate is not a exactly word used in greek.

thats the reason I want an official communicate in english or spanish that say without posibility of error that Vassula is excommunicated.

I believe Vassula is not orthodox at least her ideas, for me is sufficient to not attend her, but there are people that does not know Vassula is excomunicated and think they are free to follow her

in The link http://www.ecclesia.gr/greek/holysynod/commitees/heresies/heresies-0008.htm I only can see this:

Η σελίδα που αναζητάτε δεν είναι διαθέσιμη.

Εάν αναζητάτε κάποιο κείμενο του Μακαριστού Χριστοδούλου,
παρακαλώ επισκεφθείτε το ηλεκτρονικό αρχείο κειμένων του.
Εναλλακτικά, μπορείτε να επισκεφθείτε μια από τις βασικές ενότητες της ιστοσελίδας,
από τη διεύθυνση: http://www.ecclesia.gr.

Σε κάθε περίπτωση, εάν συναντάτε δυσκολίες στην εύρεση περιεχομένου,
παρακαλούμε επικοινωνήστε με το τεχνικό τμήμα στη διεύθυνση webmaster@ecclesia.gr


Thank you.
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« Reply #187 on: November 20, 2008, 01:34:32 PM »

^ "Page Not Found" in Greek.
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« Reply #188 on: November 21, 2008, 12:14:37 AM »

^ "Page Not Found" in Greek.

Ha ha ha ha,

well I spected the error code 404

Thank you
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« Reply #189 on: November 21, 2008, 12:16:53 AM »

^ I wouldn't expect much help from the Church of Greece in locating that document.  You could try a web archive site like http://www.archive.org to see if someone in the world has the text.
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« Reply #190 on: November 30, 2008, 07:25:32 PM »

Hi

I found this link I think it is the same published before

http://www.ecclesia.gr/greek/press/ekklisia/EKKLISIA_2001_Iounios/6PAPAS.PDF

Page 507, but is in greek and also I don't understand it Smiley, may be I must feel the translation in this forums is enough.

Regards
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« Reply #191 on: November 30, 2008, 08:53:04 PM »

Copying and pasting from the Greek PDF file into here results in gibberish.   Smiley

The 3rd Paragraph of Page 507 roughly translates as "Vassoula Ryden has fallen away from the Orthodox Church, so be it."

Yes, you have found the article where the Church of Greece excommunicated Vassoula Ryden and her partner.   Smiley

Hi

I found this link I think it is the same published before

http://www.ecclesia.gr/greek/press/ekklisia/EKKLISIA_2001_Iounios/6PAPAS.PDF

Page 507, but is in greek and also I don't understand it Smiley, may be I must feel the translation in this forums is enough.

Regards
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« Reply #192 on: December 24, 2008, 04:33:27 PM »

Hi,

I realize that links about Vassula's excommunion are out of date,

this is the link out dated

http://www.ecclesia.gr/greek/holysynod/commitees/heresies/heresies-0008.htm
Can be brought up using The Wayback Machine

http://web.archive.org/web/20070407151645/http://www.ecclesia.gr/greek/holysynod/commitees/heresies/heresies-0008.htm
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« Reply #193 on: December 24, 2008, 04:37:20 PM »

From the owner of a website which keeps track of Vassula...

I have been taking advantage of the quiet summer months to make some long due updates to the website:

 

-          The text in English of the 2001 decision of the Holy Synod's Committee on Heresies of the Greek Orthodox Church stating that "Vassula Ryden has expelled herself from the Orthodox Church"
http://www.infovassula.ch/tliggreekorthodox.htm

 
-          The 2004 Communication from the Holy Synod of the Catholic Hierarchy of Greece requesting that the faithful refrain from participating in Mrs. Ryden's activities without the authorization of the Hierarchical Palace, and asking religious communities not to make their premises available for TLIG events. I included an image of the communication.
http://www.infovassula.ch/tligtheologians.htm#Communication

 -          Added a new FAQ based on an article already circulated to this list last year : May Vassula Receive Holy Communion when participating at Catholic Masses ?
http://www.infovassula.ch/tligfaq.htm#may vassula

Warmly in Christ,
Maria Laura Pio

www.infovassula.ch

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« Reply #194 on: December 24, 2008, 06:19:16 PM »

-          The text in English of the 2001 decision of the Holy Synod's Committee on Heresies of the Greek Orthodox Church stating that "Vassula Ryden has expelled herself from the Orthodox Church"
http://www.infovassula.ch/tliggreekorthodox.htm
I was the one who told Maria about that!
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« Reply #195 on: January 29, 2010, 07:36:34 AM »

A interesting analysis of Vassula Ryden's writings from an Orthodox perspective has been recently posted on the blog "A Catechumen's Tale". I am copying hereunder an extract of the article and recommend that you  read the complete version here:

http://catechumens-tale.blogspot.com/search/label/Vassula%20Rydén


Contra Vassula Rydén

Some time recently, a good friend of mine sent me a link to a website and told me, "The Orthodox should be warned about this." I clicked on the link and was met with a website called "True Life in God," peppered with iconography that made me think for a moment that I might be looking at the archdiocese website. Instead, it was the website for a woman named Vassula Rydén, and on the main page speaks of angels and messages.

I felt a shrill go up the back of my neck, realizing that I was dealing with someone who claimed to have had personal revelations with God and was attempting to share it with the world. As I did further research, what I found shocked me, and I began to realize that perhaps Christians in general, not just Orthodox, should be warned about this woman. I was even more inspired when I learned that friends of friends (even those attending my church) were following this woman like a prophet of old, and were even giving her prayer books to their children to read. Therefore, this struck rather close to home.

The casual reader should be warned that this is perhaps the longest post I will make on my blog for some time, but I believe the time spent will not be wasted. Heresy and controversy within the Church need to be discussed, just as they were hundreds of years ago at the ecumenical councils. No, I am not claiming to be the new Athanasius, ready to take on the Arians - God forbid the prideful thought from entering my mind! However, I do want to at least be a source of education for some and protection for others. I pray that God will allow me to be an instrument for Him and in His name alone. Amen.

Who is this Vassula Rydén?

According to her own website (source) she is an ethnic Greek from Egypt who "belongs to the Greek Orthodox Church." She claims to have started receiving messages from Jesus Himself (through an angel named "Daniel"), beginning in Bangladesh in 1985. According to her website, she has "been invited to speak in more than 70 countries and has given over 900 presentations," even being asked "at 3 occasions to speak on unity in the World Council of Churches of Geneva." She has many "Beth Mariam" charity houses for the poor and orphans. She is married to a Lutheran. Her manifestations are, according to her testimonial video, "still continuing" (source).

The first thing that caught my eye was, although she claims to be a Greek Orthodox, her Orthodoxy should rightfully be called into question. In both her visions and speeches she speaks of the "immaculate heart" of both Jesus and the Virgin Mary, a concept decidedly Roman Catholic both in origin and use. She is said to have handed out rosaries to people and paid homage at Roman Catholic shrines, even going so far as to claim a message from God saying "blessed are those who will pray the Rosary" (source). She believes in purgatory and teaches that our prayers save people from Purgatory (source). She claims to have visited hell and saw something closer to Bill Weise's view than the Church's belief on hell (source). Her teaching on the Holy Spirit is more akin to Charismatic preachers on late-night TBN than the writings of the Church Fathers. Her views on universalism and ecumenical movements (which I'll get to later on in this post) would be better placed in the sermons of the Emergent Church. Overall, I don't find anything Orthodox about her.

My feelings seemed to have some merit, as I found out that she really had no solid knowledge of her Orthodox faith - let alone any Christian faith at all. She admits in her testimonial video (source, again) that she "wasn't a Church-goer" and that she "wasn't looking for God at all." She knew "God existed" and "knew a little bit," but never "had any catechism." When she got married she "abandoned" her Orthodoxy and became involved in the international organization that sent her to places across the world, neither her nor her husband practicing religion in the meanwhile. Then, in 1985 in Bangladesh, she was writing down a list of groceries and suddenly saw her "guardian angel", who physically held her hand and began to write what he wanted her to say. He introduced himself as Daniel. She was excited and began to talk to Daniel. He instructed her to read scripture, and then continued to deliver messages from God afterward.

Something seemed familiar about this experience, and it was then that I realized the way that the supposed angel Daniel communicated with Vassula is a way many mediums supposedly communicate with ghosts. The method is known as "automatic writing" or alternatively "ghost scribbles." It entails a person scribbling on a piece of paper and allowing the ghost to write for the person, sending out messages that can be either crystal clear or incoherent (the 1980 film "The Changeling" features this). Such communication really belongs in the hands of the occult - why, therefore, should we be expected to follow theology based on unorthodox methods of communicating with God? It would be like revelation given through tarot cards.

Of course what also bothered me was the fact she was receiving supposed revelations from an angel. I couldn't help but think to myself: who else has received revelation from God? Some names come to mind: Mani, Mohammad, Joseph Smith...but perhaps this list is unfair. Daniel, for example, met and spoke with Gabriel, yet he was a prophet and the role of prophets ended with John the Baptist (Luke 16:16). It's also worth mentioning that the minute Daniel came in contact with Gabriel he became frightened and fell on his face (Dan 8:17). Likewise, the shepherds who saw the angel announcing Christ's birth were just as afraid, for the first words out of the angel's mouth are "fear not" (Luke 2:10). The apostle John, seeing an angel twice, is so overcome he prostrates twice and has to be told not to (Rev. 19:10; 22:Cool. Here we have three groups of people in scripture - a devout prophet of God, humble laymen, and the most beloved disciple - who all reacted with fear of God at the first sight of an angel. How did Vassula first respond when she met her angel?


I was so happy that I was almost flying around the house, my feet barely touching the ground and I was repeating loudly: "I am the luckiest person on earth, and I am probably the only person on earth who could communicate in such a way with her angel!" [source]


Keep in mind that this is after a supposed angel of God has manifested himself to her and has touched her hand and made it move and write - her reaction seems the polar opposite to how those in the past who simply saw an angel. This isn't entirely new - there are people who claim to be watching TV, see Jesus walk in, and kept watching TV like nothing had happened. Oftentimes when a person claims to have met an angel or Christ Himself and not given the reaction that has scriptural precedent, the very claim itself is false.

Perhaps before we pass judgment on Vassula's revelation, we should review the essence of these revelations in detail. They're readily available on her website, posted in chronological order and even in order of subject. They are also quite voluminous: I started reading from the start in 1985, and after two or three hours had only gotten to 1987. Nevertheless, they must be looked at to truly understand the essence of her message.

[Continued here: http://catechumens-tale.blogspot.com/search/label/Vassula%20Rydén

__._,_.___
 

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« Reply #196 on: January 30, 2010, 04:05:54 AM »

Thank you for posting and linking this.  The article is very good.
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« Reply #197 on: September 21, 2010, 01:55:36 AM »

Vassula Ryden, a visionary known for her "private revelations" that promote indifferentism, and who continues to be enthusiastically supported by many Catholic and Orthodox clergy and hierarchs despite occasional warnings from the Vatican (and a few timid ones from the Orthodox Churches), enthusiastically relates in the latest report on her website that as part of her Mission in Romania on May 2010, a Romanian Orthodox priest invited a Roman Catholic priest to concelebrate the Divine Liturgy of Pentecost.

Full text of blog post can be read here:  http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2010/09/romanian-orthodox-and-roman-catholic.html



Excerpt of blog post added to post to enforce rule against naked links.  -PtA
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« Reply #198 on: September 21, 2010, 02:06:05 AM »

Quote
Vassula Ryden, a visionary known for her "private revelations" that promote indifferentism, and who continues to be enthusiastically supported by many Catholic and Orthodox clergy and hierarchs despite occasional warnings from the Vatican (and a few timid ones from the Orthodox Churches)

What's the writer of this drivel been smokin'?  Tongue laugh
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« Reply #199 on: September 21, 2010, 02:09:22 AM »

Quote
Vassula Ryden, a visionary known for her "private revelations" that promote indifferentism, and who continues to be enthusiastically supported by many Catholic and Orthodox clergy and hierarchs despite occasional warnings from the Vatican (and a few timid ones from the Orthodox Churches)

What's the writer of this drivel been smokin'?  Tongue laugh

The "many" here pertains primarily to the Catholic clergy and bishops. Yes, Vassula counts quite a number of supporters from among them...
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« Reply #200 on: September 21, 2010, 02:22:51 AM »

Vassula Ryden, a visionary known for her "private revelations" that promote indifferentism, and who continues to be enthusiastically supported by many Catholic and Orthodox clergy and hierarchs
despite occasional warnings from the Vatican (and a few timid ones from the Orthodox Churches)
,

Hardly timid.  Several years back her case was examined in Athens and the Greek Church stated she was excommunicated.  She then initiated a court case against the Greek Church but it was abandoned.
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« Reply #201 on: September 21, 2010, 02:35:38 AM »

Vassula Ryden, a visionary known for her "private revelations" that promote indifferentism, and who continues to be enthusiastically supported by many Catholic and Orthodox clergy and hierarchs
despite occasional warnings from the Vatican (and a few timid ones from the Orthodox Churches)
,

Hardly timid.  Several years back her case was examined in Athens and the Greek Church stated she was excommunicated.  She then initiated a court case against the Greek Church but it was abandoned.

I changed the post to remove "timid" even before I saw your response. However, if you look through Vassula's website, you'll note that her relations with the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Alexandria remain cordial... too cordial for comfort.

 
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« Reply #202 on: September 21, 2010, 03:09:17 AM »


I changed the post to remove "timid" even before I saw your response. However, if you look through Vassula's website, you'll note that her relations with the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Alexandria remain cordial... too cordial for comfort.

 

I adore Mrs Ryden!

1. She and her locutions and her magic writings had the approval of Catholic bishops at the time when she had abandoned her first husband and was living in a long-term relationship with her lover (now her second husband.)   *Anybody* who can gain the approval of her visions by the Catholic hierarchy as legitimate when she was living in mortal sin has to be special!!  Just shows how wrong we have all been to think that sexual purity is a prerequisite to being a good Christian, and certainly for being chosen by Jesus as His voice in the world.

2.  Most of all, I adore her for the locution from Jesus which she revealed on her Russian tour, that He had revealed that the Patriarch of Moscow would assume control of the united Universal Church, displacing the Pope of Rome.

I vote to canonise her before she dies!  
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« Reply #203 on: September 21, 2010, 03:32:59 AM »

The text in English of the 2001 decision of the Greek Holy Synod's Committee on Heresies of the Greek Orthodox Church stating that "Vassula Ryden has expelled herself from the Orthodox Church"

http://www.infovassula.ch/tliggreekorthodox.htm
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« Reply #204 on: September 21, 2010, 03:45:13 AM »

The text in English of the 2001 decision of the Greek Holy Synod's Committee on Heresies of the Greek Orthodox Church stating that "Vassula Ryden has expelled herself from the Orthodox Church"

http://www.infovassula.ch/tliggreekorthodox.htm

Somebody ought to tell Patriarch Theodore II of Alexandria.

See this: http://www.tlig.org/en/spirituality/pilgrimages/egypt2008/

See also this quote from the report in the abovementioned link:

Quote
At night, in the Church of the Annunciation, we attended the magnificent Easter celebration, receiving Holy Communion and the Holy Light of the Resurrection from His Beatitude the Patriarch. Just before midnight, all the lights of the church were switched off and at precisely midnight His Beatitude chanted the hymn "Here, receive the Light". We were all impressed with the openness of his Beatitude when it came to Holy Communion from the first day, because he never made any distinction between the Orthodox and the Roman Catholics but gave the Body and Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ to us all. Praise be to the Lord and all glory to Him. Amen.
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« Reply #205 on: September 21, 2010, 04:36:08 AM »

I think that Ryden is deluded (in a state of plani-prelest) and in need of spiritual and psychiatric assistance.  The revelation from Jesus in Russia proves that.  The belief that the revelations and magic writings continued during the years when she was openly living in adultery prove it.

Whether or not the Patriarch of Alexandria communed Catholics, I do not know.  There are no photos of this in the article you reference although she has plenty of photos of the Alexandria visit and the Patriarch.
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« Reply #206 on: September 21, 2010, 03:07:36 PM »


1. She and her locutions and her magic writings had the approval of Catholic bishops at the time when she had abandoned her first husband and was living in a long-term relationship with her lover (now her second husband.)   *Anybody* who can gain the approval of her visions by the Catholic hierarchy as legitimate when she was living in mortal sin has to be special!!  Just shows how wrong we have all been to think that sexual purity is a prerequisite to being a good Christian, and certainly for being chosen by Jesus as His voice in the world.

 

Can you cite evidence of the Catholic Bishops approving of her locutions and writings?
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« Reply #207 on: September 21, 2010, 03:22:16 PM »

The CDF doctrinal judgment from 1997 against her works (headed by Cardinal Ratzinger) remain in force. Cardinal Levada iterated that it was inappriate for Catholics to take part in her prayer groups.

This is a different kind of ecumenism: a list of EO and RCC condemnations of Vassoula. Interestingly enough, the CDF in 1995 noted her intercommunion as an irritant.

http://www.infovassula.ch/dermine.htm

Quote
Moreover, by habitually sharing in the sacraments of the Catholic Church even though she is Greek Orthodox, Mrs. Ryden is causing considerable surprise in various circles of the Catholic Church. She appears to be putting herself above all ecclesiastical jurisdiction and every canonical norm, and in effect, is creating an ecumenical disorder that irritates many authorities, ministers and faithful of her own Church, as she puts herself outside the ecclesiastical discipline of the latter.

There seems to be no end to her mischief, although she seems to be doing a fairly good job smoking out the ecumenists.

The webmaster of Rorate Caeli offered this comment to the Vassoula-inspired ecumenism.

Quote
The unity that counts, the unity that will actually last, the unity that will not contribute towards even greater disunity, is unity of faith. Events like this do not cause unity -- this and similar events only cause greater scandal, and therefore greater disunity. To protest this scandal is not to promote disunity but precisely to defend the meaning of true unity.

I find it very interesting that the proponents of false unity want to move us towards unity by disregarding precisely one of the principles upon which Catholicism and Orthodoxy are united, namely, that intercommunion can come only after agreement on doctrine. Since when did unity come by creating disunity over yet another principle?

<snip>

Those who acknowledge the obvious fact that Catholics and Orthodox do not agree on essential matters, and therefore can neither concelebrate nor routinely receive Communion at each other's liturgies, are condemned as apostles of disunity, ridiculed as upholders of outdated polemics, and are threatened with divine judgement for "prolonging the causes of division" and "doing the devil's work"! It is as if to acknowledge a sad reality is to be guilty of it and to celebrate the fact -- an absurd notion, as anyone can see.

No, we acknowledge that there is division between Orthodoxy and Catholicism, a division wide enough to prevent meaningful concelebration or intercommunion, because we cannot compromise over the truth, and not because we rejoice over division or would like it to continue. To disregard doctrine makes communion quite pointless, don't you think?

Fr. Ambrose offered a translation of a Greek church excommunication on the CA board in 2007.
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danman916
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« Reply #208 on: September 21, 2010, 03:28:03 PM »

The CDF doctrinal judgment from 1997 against her works (headed by Cardinal Ratzinger) remain in force. Cardinal Levada iterated that it was inappriate for Catholics to take part in her prayer groups.
 

So these are in force, yet Father Ambrose says that Catholic Bishops approve of her locutions and writings?

I will be interested to see whether or not Father Ambrose can demonstrate any proof for his claim.
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« Reply #209 on: September 21, 2010, 03:38:44 PM »

She has her followers and supporters within the clergy. Fr. Rene Laurentin is an apologist for both this apparition and that of the Medjugorje phenomenon. Are these supporters following the CDF? Absolutley not. Even just a few months ago, Cardinal Schoenborn got in a bit of trouble for appearing to approve Medjugorje by citing positive things that have occurred there. (Cardinal Ratzinger was not widely seen as friendly to it).

Here's a small list of supporters of Vassula.

http://unitypublishing.com/Apparitions/Vassula.html

Quote
Why do we say "Thank God for Vassula"? Look at who promoted her: Father Ken Roberts, of EWTN, Dr. Rosalle Turton, the 101 Foundation, Mr. John Haffert, former head of the Blue Army and major promoter of Garabandal, Father Rene Laurentin, so-called Marian Theologian, "Mary’s People", a branch of The National Catholic Register, The Daughters of St. Paul Book Stores, The Marian Centers of Medjugorje; Father Michael O’Carroll, (former teacher at Notre Dame and involved in the Charismatic Movement); The Riehle Foundation, (promoters of "The Final Hour"); Michael H. Brown, (author of "The Final Hour" and "The Day Will Come"); and others. These organizations and people pass themselves off as experts in discernment and apparitions. The fact that they were fooled by such a poor mystic is proof that they are not.
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« Reply #210 on: September 21, 2010, 09:04:31 PM »

She has her followers and supporters within the clergy. Fr. Rene Laurentin is an apologist for both this apparition and that of the Medjugorje phenomenon. Are these supporters following the CDF? Absolutley not. Even just a few months ago, Cardinal Schoenborn got in a bit of trouble for appearing to approve Medjugorje by citing positive things that have occurred there. (Cardinal Ratzinger was not widely seen as friendly to it).

Here's a small list of supporters of Vassula.

http://unitypublishing.com/Apparitions/Vassula.html

Quote
Why do we say "Thank God for Vassula"? Look at who promoted her: Father Ken Roberts, of EWTN, Dr. Rosalle Turton, the 101 Foundation, Mr. John Haffert, former head of the Blue Army and major promoter of Garabandal, Father Rene Laurentin, so-called Marian Theologian, "Mary’s People", a branch of The National Catholic Register, The Daughters of St. Paul Book Stores, The Marian Centers of Medjugorje; Father Michael O’Carroll, (former teacher at Notre Dame and involved in the Charismatic Movement); The Riehle Foundation, (promoters of "The Final Hour"); Michael H. Brown, (author of "The Final Hour" and "The Day Will Come"); and others. These organizations and people pass themselves off as experts in discernment and apparitions. The fact that they were fooled by such a poor mystic is proof that they are not.



The fact that so many top Catholic theologians and lay leaders are easily fooled by paranormal phenomena that would have been denounced out of hand by any Catholic priest prior to Vatican II, and by anyone really familiar with Catholic ascetical and mystical theology, just goes to show how so many Catholics are ignorant of their own tradition.

There are quite a number of Asian prelates who openly support Vassula, such as Archbishop Ramon Arguelles of Lipa, Philippines and Telesphore Cardinal Toppo of Ranchi, India. They fit into a tendency that first appeared in the 1970's, and which was strengthened in the reign of Pope John Paul II, whose own attitude towards apparitions tended to the very soft side, and during whose reign it was impolitic to appear to be "not Marian enough" -- I speak of the tendency of far too many Catholic bishops and theologians to support all sorts of reported visions and private revelations. Furthermore, the "Marian movement" in the Catholic Church provided (and still provides) significant support for the Vatican's positions of moral matters, and really, during the 1980's and 1990's, in Catholicism, as long as one supported the Pope's teachings on moral matters one was considered "orthodox"".

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« Reply #211 on: September 21, 2010, 09:24:34 PM »

Whether or not the Patriarch of Alexandria communed Catholics, I do not know.  There are no photos of this in the article you reference although she has plenty of photos of the Alexandria visit and the Patriarch.

I actually saw a video of this with my own eyes. He clearly communes not only laypeople, which in a cathedral is excusable because of the number of people present. He can't interview everybody! But he communes Roman Catholic priests and monks, which are very distinguishable by their attire.
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« Reply #212 on: September 21, 2010, 09:58:17 PM »

A thread about Vassula and her followers being communed by His Beatitude can be found here:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,24729.0.html#lastPost

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« Reply #213 on: September 21, 2010, 10:07:37 PM »

The "many" here pertains primarily to the Catholic clergy and bishops. Yes, Vassula counts quite a number of supporters from among them...
Perhaps you have not read: NOTIFICATION ON VASSULA RYDEN (6 October 1995)
Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith :
" Given the negative effect of Vassula Ryden's activities, despite some positive aspects, this Congregation requests the intervention of the Bishops so that their faithful may be suitably informed and that no opportunity may be provided in their Dioceses for the dissemination of her ideas."
http://www.ewtn.com/library/curia/cdfrydn1.htm
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« Reply #214 on: September 21, 2010, 10:18:43 PM »

There are quite a number of Asian prelates who openly support Vassula, such as Archbishop Ramon Arguelles of Lipa, Philippines and Telesphore Cardinal Toppo of Ranchi, India. They fit into a tendency that first appeared in the 1970's, and which was strengthened in the reign of Pope John Paul II, whose own attitude towards apparitions tended to the very soft side, and during whose reign it was impolitic to appear to be "not Marian enough" -- I speak of the tendency of far too many Catholic bishops and theologians to support all sorts of reported visions and private revelations. Furthermore, the "Marian movement" in the Catholic Church provided (and still provides) significant support for the Vatican's positions of moral matters, and really, during the 1980's and 1990's, in Catholicism, as long as one supported the Pope's teachings on moral matters one was considered "orthodox"".

I was intimately familiar with some of the ultra-conservative apparitions. Oddly enough, even though the apparitions were themselves false, I still believe that the fundamental premise of a few of them are is correct. The "remnant" mentality of the ultra-traditionalists and condemned sites like Bayside... and St. Justin Popovic! - adhere to a common premise, that the Roman Catholic church fell from a very great height. The sedevacantists go too far, given what they claim to believe, and the SSPX are holding on to an untenable position (in communion with the "fallen" organization), yet in some ways they are a reminder of how far the Latin church has fallen.
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« Reply #215 on: September 21, 2010, 10:24:53 PM »

The text in English of the 2001 decision of the Greek Holy Synod's Committee on Heresies of the Greek Orthodox Church stating that "Vassula Ryden has expelled herself from the Orthodox Church"

http://www.infovassula.ch/tliggreekorthodox.htm

Somebody ought to tell Patriarch Theodore II of Alexandria.

See this: http://www.tlig.org/en/spirituality/pilgrimages/egypt2008/

See also this quote from the report in the abovementioned link:

Quote
At night, in the Church of the Annunciation, we attended the magnificent Easter celebration, receiving Holy Communion and the Holy Light of the Resurrection from His Beatitude the Patriarch. Just before midnight, all the lights of the church were switched off and at precisely midnight His Beatitude chanted the hymn "Here, receive the Light". We were all impressed with the openness of his Beatitude when it came to Holy Communion from the first day, because he never made any distinction between the Orthodox and the Roman Catholics but gave the Body and Blood of our Lord Jesus Christ to us all. Praise be to the Lord and all glory to Him. Amen.

I would take with a grain of salt anything you read in the tlig website, or any other report put out by Vassula's followers.  One of the characteristics of her group is that they are very aggressive in seeking out endorsements of Vassula and her messages, to the point of twisting the truth and saying someone has endorsed her when they have not.  This has been discussed in other threads about her.  You can find them by clicking on the Vassula tag below.

I have no doubt that Vassula and her group went as pilgrims to Alexandria, took communion, and were received by His Beatitude.  However, I would imagine that His Beatitude communes and meets with groups of pilgrims all the time.  I'm sure he gets his picture taken with hundreds of pilgrims every year.  The fact that Vassula did this does not necessarily mean that His Beatitude supports her or endorses her messages.  He probably had no idea who she was.
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« Reply #216 on: September 21, 2010, 11:22:46 PM »

Here is a website run by someone who used to be a Vassula devotee.

http://www.infovassula.ch/
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« Reply #217 on: September 21, 2010, 11:46:17 PM »

Maria wrote of her experiences with the Vassula cult to professional apparition-debunker Rick Salbato. Vassula even spoke at the World Council of Churches! There's no date on the emails but they may have preceded Maria's decision to start her own information site on Vassula.

http://www.unitypublishing.com/Apparitions/VassulaEmails.html

Check out the Triadology of Vassula:

http://www.catholicplanet.com/apparitions/false13.htm

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February 17, 1987: “Vassula why, why were you avoiding calling Me Father? Vassula I love being called Father. I am Father of all humanity.”

Filioque! (couldn't resist)

The website author offered these insights:

Quote
Although she claims to be married to Jesus, she refers to him as 'Father' and he supposedly calls her 'daughter.' The messages also call the Spirit the Bridegroom, whereas Christ is considered the Bridegroom of his Spouse the Church. But these messages replace the Church with Vassula as Christ's Bride.

The use of the term 'Captor' to refer to Christ's relationship with anyone is contrary to all that the Church teaches. God gave us freewill to such an extent that we can even choose serious sin and choose, in effect, Hellfire. Christ is the Captor of no one. He gives grace freely and he does not control anyone, even those closest to Him.

The claim that she is Christ's altar exalts her above the Virgin Mary and above the rest of humanity. Such self-exalting claims are characteristic of false private revelation.
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« Reply #218 on: September 22, 2010, 09:10:24 AM »

 

The fact that so many top Catholic theologians and lay leaders are easily fooled by paranormal phenomena that would have been denounced out of hand by any Catholic priest prior to Vatican II, and by anyone really familiar with Catholic ascetical and mystical theology, just goes to show how so many Catholics are ignorant of their own tradition.


Oh, Puleez. This is nothing more than polemics again.
Geez.

 
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« Reply #219 on: September 22, 2010, 09:13:37 AM »

 Still waiting to see if Irish Hermit can demonstrate any proof for his claim in reply #5:

her locutions and her magic writings had the approval of Catholic bishops at the time when she had abandoned her first husband and was living in a long-term relationship with her lover (now her second husband.)   *Anybody* who can gain the approval of her visions by the Catholic hierarchy as legitimate when she was living in mortal sin has to be special!!  Just shows how wrong we have all been to think that sexual purity is a prerequisite to being a good Christian, and certainly for being chosen by Jesus as His voice in the world.

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« Reply #220 on: September 22, 2010, 09:52:03 AM »

Years ago we discussed these matters on CAF but I never thought them important enough to archive.  However I see that Ryden has some of the testimonials on her website.

Cardinal Franjo Kuharic
Archbishop of Zagreb
February 1995

Vassula travels the world evangelizing for Christian unity; obedience to the Pope; veneration of the Eucharist; devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus; and especially, a Gospel morality of life; as well as for deep religious conversion of the world. Vassula Ryden has met with the Pope, with cardinals and with bishops around the world. This is a matter of private revelation and we allow her to speak because what she says conforms to Gospel truth.

--

His Eminence, Wildrid Cardinal Napier of the the Archdiocese of Durban, South Africa

It is therefore reasonable to state categorically that as far as the Church is concerned Vassula poses no threat to the Catholic Faith whatsoever. Indeed the messages which are communicated through her are consistent with the Church’s own call to repentance and a return to the basics of the faith, in particular the basic prayers such as the Rosary and other devotions once so common in the Catholic family and parish spiritual life.

--
Cardinal Telesphore P. Toppo
Archbishop of Ranchi

Cardinal Toppo introduced Vassula when she came to speak in his Diocese back in Novermber of 2004. Below is an excerpt from his speech:

 "The surprising thing is that Vassula did not have any catechetical instruction, leave alone theological training what so-ever and yet her charismatic teaching seems to be in conformity to Scripture, Tradition and the writings of Scholars and Saints... "

etc., etc.

http://www.tlig.org/en/testimonies/churchpos/sfeirwelcome/
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« Reply #221 on: September 22, 2010, 10:09:06 AM »

and none of those was an "approval" of her "locutions and magic writings". You're stetching the poinit to try to fit a round peg into a square hole to smear Catholicism again.

In the link that you provided on your later post, i found the following:

http://www.infovassula.ch/tligchurchposition.htm

3)      Finally, it remains inappropriate for Catholics to take part in prayer groups established by Mrs Rydén. Concerning the question of ecumenical meetings, the faithful are to follow the norms of the Ecumenical Directory, of the Code of Canon Law (canons: 215; 223 §2 and 383 §3) and of Diocesan Ordinaries.

It is hardly "Bishop's approval" when the prefect of the CFD, Cardinal Levada, is stating this, as it has much more authority than the quotes you provided.

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« Reply #222 on: September 22, 2010, 10:17:34 AM »

and none of those was an "approval" of her "locutions and magic writings". You're stetching the poinit to try to fit a round peg into a square hole.


If you say so!  A few years ago she almost made it to New Zealand under the aegis of a combined effort of the Anglican and Roman Catholic Churches.  We had enquiries from them if we would like to participate.   I said that it was unlikely and recommended that they contact the local Greek Orthodox Church authoritties. They, in their turn, recommended a call to the American Greek Archbishop's offices.  And they were then informed she is excommunicated and Orthodox should not be participating.  I heard nothing after that.
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« Reply #223 on: September 22, 2010, 10:18:54 AM »

and none of those was an "approval" of her "locutions and magic writings". You're stetching the poinit to try to fit a round peg into a square hole to smear Catholicism again.

In the link that you provided on your later post, i found the following:

http://www.infovassula.ch/tligchurchposition.htm

3)      Finally, it remains inappropriate for Catholics to take part in prayer groups established by Mrs Rydén. Concerning the question of ecumenical meetings, the faithful are to follow the norms of the Ecumenical Directory, of the Code of Canon Law (canons: 215; 223 §2 and 383 §3) and of Diocesan Ordinaries.

It is hardly "Bishop's approval" when the prefect of the CFD, Cardinal Levada, is stating this, as it has much more authority than the quotes you provided.



There has simply been a lot of confusion among the Catholic hierarchy about this woman.
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« Reply #224 on: September 22, 2010, 11:43:44 AM »

So these are in force, yet Father Ambrose says that Catholic Bishops approve of her locutions and writings?

I will be interested to see whether or not Father Ambrose can demonstrate any proof for his claim.


There are a lot of bishops in the Catholic Church; it's inevitable that you're going to find one approving wacky things from time to time. Considering that bishops have approved clown masses I'm not sure why you find the idea that a couple of them approved of Vassula Ryden so hard to believe.



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