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Author Topic: Another Side of the Pope: John Paul II's Balkan Legacy  (Read 4602 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: April 21, 2005, 05:19:49 PM »

Another Side of the Pope: John Paul II's Balkan Legacy
Posted on Saturday, April 09 @ 07:00:00 EDT by CDeliso    By Carl Savich


What will be Pope John Paul II’s legacy? In the week between his death and funeral, the media have lionized him with candy-coated encomiums as a peace-loving pope who brought down Communism and ushered in the New World Order. His place in history is assured as a determined anti-Communist who revitalized the Roman Catholic Church. He will also be remembered as an energetic evangelist for his faith, traveling to over 120 countries during his reign.

Yet what kind of a role did the “peacemaker” Pope play in the recent Balkan conflicts? And, despite his many journeys and outreach to leaders of other faiths, why did John Paul II not seek to reconcile Orthodox Slavs and Roman Catholic Slavs in the Balkans? In the end, did the Pope only exacerbate religious tensions and animosity in the Balkans?

John Paul II: First to Recognize Croatia

In 1991, Pope John Paul II became the first to recognize Croatia as an independent state. Committed at a time when tensions were high and dialogue was called for, this act was needlessly reckless. It gave great prestige and legitimacy to the cause of Catholic Croatia, which the Pope championed for his own narrow religious goals. His recognition helped spark a tragic civil war that resulted in the deaths of thousands of Serbs and Croats. The premature and irresponsible recognition foreshadowed the carnage, killing, displacement and suffering in the former Yugoslavia.

“I am not a pacifist,” said John Paul II In 1991, in the context of the first Gulf War. A few years later, bolstered by his ‘just war’ rhetoric, he demanded of Bill Clinton and NATO to intervene in the Bosnian conflict, when Roman Catholic Croatian troops were being militarily defeated by Bosnian Muslim troops. Using the rationale that “'the aggressor must be disarmed,” the Pope also incited the US to intervene militarily against the Bosnian Serbs to prevent the military defeat of Roman Catholic Croats in Bosnia. Of course, he has always veiled this intent behind the theology of the “duty” of the international community to intervene in cases of perceived genocide.

However, at the same time that he sought to protect the rights of Catholic Croats, Pope John Paul II was indifferent to the plight of the Serbian Orthodox population of Krajina. All he wanted was to recognize Croatia, a Roman Catholic state that worshipped the Vatican. He abjured negotiation, compromise, reconciliation. He was silent when Roman Catholic Croat troops, with NATO and US help, ethnically cleansed over 350,000 Krajina Serbs in 1995. This was the largest single act of ethnic cleansing during the Balkan conflict. The peace-loving Pope showed that he was a hypocrite.

Croatia was an obsession with Pope John Paul II. It was his Poland-next-door. He was determined to destroy the Yugoslav federation and socialism, as he had the Soviet Union. John Paul visited Croatia on three occasions: September 10-11, 1994; October 2-4, 1998; and, his 100th foreign visit, June 5-9, 2003. But on this last visit, a Bosnian Muslim sent him an e-mail threatening to kill him “in the name of Allah.”

The Pope: a Supporter of Holocaust-Denier Franjo Tudjman

The Pope’s behavior toward the Balkans becomes especially controversial in light of his treatment of morally corrupt leaders. He never criticized or condemned Croatian leader Franjo Tudjman, a known Holocaust denier and rabid anti-Semite.. It was Tudjman who had denied that 6 million Jews were killed in the Holocaust, maintaining instead that only 900,000 Jews were murdered. He also called Israelis “Judeo-Nazis” who were carrying out genocide against Palestinian Muslims. Tudjman also denied the World War II Croatian Ustasha genocide at Jasenovac, which he dismissed contemptuously as the “Jasenovac myth.”

Tudjman was a known racist who had plans to annex Bosnia-Hercegovina into a Greater Croatia. Yet John Paul II was silent about Tudjman. He visited Croatia in 1994 during the civil war, thereby giving moral support to the Tudjman regime in its efforts to ethnically cleanse the Krajina Serbs. The Pope had no sympathy for their rights or aspirations. All he ever cared about was the expansion of Roman Catholicism.

A Pope Who Beatified Backers of the Ustasha’s Genocidal Regime

On his second official papal visit to Croatia, Pope John Paul II made the shocking decision to beatify Croatian Archbishop Alojzije Stepinac, a man who had supported the genocide of hundreds of thousands of Orthodox Serbs, Jews, and Roma. In Roman Catholicism, beatification is the step prior to sainthood. The beatification occurred at a huge open-air ceremony at the shrine of Marija Bistrica on October 3, 1998. This was meant as a slap in the face to all Orthodox Serbs. It would be like the Nobel Peace Committee awarding Adolf Eichmann a posthumous Nobel Prize for Peace. The action demonstrated his total and profound contempt for the Serbian people, for the Orthodox religion, and for the legacy of 60,000 Jews killed in Ustasha death camps.


Pope John Paul II prays next to body of convicted war criminal Stepinac in Zagreb, 1998 (CNN photo; fair use)
The body of Stepinac is preserved and embalmed in a glass case in Zagreb. In beatifying Stepinac, the Pope ignored a request from the Simon Wiesenthal Center to await the results of an investigation into his role in genocide and the Holocaust during World War II, angering Jewish organizations in the process. But that didn’t deter the man who mass-produced more saints than any other pope in history, by lowering the requisite standards. All that mattered to the Pope was that Stepinac was anti-Communist. That Stepinac was also pro-fascist, pro-Ustasha, and pro-Nazi did not seem to bother the Pope at all; he was to be revered as a “martyr” in the conflict against Communism.

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« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2005, 06:48:20 AM »

Well i knew much of the above written but unfortunately many of us Orthodox has no clue about it.
We seem to live for the day and we forget history and the past.

Today we can clearly see a war behind curtains and its not an easy war but a very tough war.

But i have to warn any of you in here my brothers and sisters.

The new EUROPEAN CONSTITUTION will do the job for satan. I aware of the constitution as i  made studies on it. We will see hundreds if not thousands of new paganastic herecies we will see the reborn evil structures.

But do not fear as long as we watch out for our own and as long we inform our next about the development we should not be afraid. Prayers and love will show us the way and wich steps we must take. Not the dark ones but we should choose the true light of Christ.

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« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2005, 08:30:28 AM »

Blessed Alojzije intercede on behalf of those who slander you and our departed pontiff, Pope John Paul II.
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« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2005, 08:45:24 AM »

Deacon Lance,

    With all due respect, I suggest you might want to reconsider that Orthodoc is not "slandering" anyone.  He is stating facts as they pertain to the Balkans.

     Plain and simple, as a Serb, I must tell you that I do not have the feelings of many of my Orthodox brethren regarding Pope John Paul II.  Maybe some of this is "Serbian Paranoia", but I assure much of it is placed on cold empirical facts, some set out by Orthodoc in the article by Carl Savich.

     Now, I'm not writing this to slander the now departed Pope, nor am I saying this to offend any RC here, however, to pretend that all of the Pope's actions in the former Yugoslavia had a positive outcome, would just be false.

     I think before you accuse anyone of being slanderous, you might want to take a more careful look at some of the cold hard facts as they pertain to the Balkans.
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« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2005, 09:09:18 AM »

Blessed Alojzije intercede on behalf of those who slander you and our departed pontiff, Pope John Paul II.

Look here to see what "Blessed" Alojzije (Aloyisius) Stepinac, the butcher of the Serbs, did to earn his "beatification" http://www.reformation.org/holoc4.html
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« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2005, 09:43:05 AM »

Blessed Alojzije intercede on behalf of those who slander you and our departed pontiff, Pope John Paul II.

And people wonder why the Orthodox Church still has problems with Roman Catholicism and the Unia. What a saintly man 'Blessed' Alojzije was - rather like Josaphat Kuntsevich, really.

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« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2005, 09:45:23 AM »

OZGeorge,

I'll stick with reality not the propaganda of Anti-Catholics.
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« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2005, 09:49:20 AM »

I was wondering how long after the pope's death it would take for Stepinac to come up.

I've read the arguments on both sides and I'm not exactly sure what I think about Stepinac because of some contradictory accounts of his behavior.  However, beatifying him was a bit over the top. 

I also understand why the pope took the position he did in the Balkans.  He saw, I assume, Yugoslavia as one of the last bastions of communism in Europe.  Some Croats (not all, by any means) used John Paul II's crusade against communism along with traditionally unhealthy ties to the Vatican to achieve a political wish:  the ethnic cleansing and separation of the Croat state from Yugoslavia.

Concerning the unhealthy relationship of the Vatican state (lest we forget that the Vatican is a nation of which the Pope is head) to the Croatian independence movement, it has been documented by the U.S. that the Vatican aided in the escape of Ustasha to South America (see for instance http://www.pavelicpapers.com/documents/draganovic/kd0003.html and http://www.pavelicpapers.com/documents/army/ar0003.html). 

These remnants remained active; encouraging, financing and training terrorists who carried out attacks on innocent civilians from the 1950s through the Balkan wars.  Some of these acts of terrorism against civilians occurred here in the United States, for instance on December 1, 1978 in Chicago, June 23, 1980 in Los Angeles and July 6, 1982 in New York.

Lest we forget, Zvonko Busic, a Croatian terrorist (“fighting” for the independence of Croatia from Yugoslavia) placed a bomb in Grand Central Station in New York (what a brave hero!).  A police officer was killed trying to defuse the bomb and another was permanently injured.  He and his comrades then high jacked a TWA flight and were eventually captured in Paris.  Mr. Busic is in prison in New York, but the Croatian government continues to work to move him to a “prison” in Croatia.  Thanks to the members of the NYPD, that little trick hasn’t been pulled yet.

Most of this information has been compiled an http://www.pavelicpapers.com.  You can agree or disagree, but they have an amazing array of documents discussing the issue.

IMHO, Pope John Paul II, with ample evidence and information, allowed himself to be manipulated through his hate for communism and the traditionally strong nationalist links between the Vatican state and Croatian separatists (in this century almost all of them fascists).  He was probably also influenced by the idea that the Slavs would have to overwhelmingly Roman Catholic states in a Europe where his church had been continually marginalized.  To achieve that goal he appears to have allowed himself to silently give consent to genocide against non Roman Catholic groups in Croatia.

Fr. Deacon Lance, if you can please show me where I am mistaken I will appreciate the correction.  However, the last I checked the folks at other Byzantine Catholic boards don’t shy away from spreading nasty rumors or delighting in the faults of certain Orthodox Patriarchs.  I can’t imagine why you think your Pope is beyond all scrutiny
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« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2005, 09:52:29 AM »

BTW, Fr. Deacon Lance, I think he was a great pope.  He wasn't perfect and, in my opinion, he erred in the Balkans.

If facts make him look bad, it's not anti-Catholic.
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« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2005, 09:54:32 AM »

reformation.org? Ugh..

A better site to research the evils of the Ustasha regime, as well as Stepinac's role within that regime, is http://www.pavelicpapers.com/. He was not a martyr by any means, but I also do not think he was as thoroughly rotten as some make him out to be. He was weak and blinded by religious nationalism. The times called for a man of strength, prayer and integrity. The Catholic church provided the see of Zagreb with a turkey, which had tragic consequences.

(edit)  Cizinec beat me to citing the above web resource.  Apologies for the redundancy.
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« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2005, 10:16:53 AM »

Cizinec,

Those who make slanderous statements at byzcath are warned and disciplined.  I can promise you an article like the above defaming an Orthodox hierarch would not be allowed.  As for Pope John Paul II, I do not think he is perfect either, but I don't know of any person, saint or otherwise, who is.  I just think it is still too soon after his death to start this nonsense.

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« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2005, 10:37:41 AM »

I think that SouthSerb and others have practiced a great deal of restraint concerning the apparently unanimous consensus that Pope John Paul II was so wonderful.  For Serbs he was horrible.  They have said very little in the numerous threads here concerning how wonderful he was as a person and as a pope.

I think most would have preferred to wait until after Pascha to bring this up, but here it is. 

Out of curiosity, exactly when would it *not* be too soon? 

I'm pretty sure I've read things by Byzantine Catholics from numerous places concerning the Patriarch of Moscow's links to the KGB.  I don't think this or any other board is being indiscrete by allowing that discussion.  I also don't think any other board would be indiscrete for allowing your head bishop's involvement with fascism and other political and ethnic movements to be discussed.
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« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2005, 11:06:07 AM »

Since this is an Orthodox forum I would think the 40 day period of prayer for the departed is a wise guideline.

I am sure passsing comments on Patriarch Alexy's KGb ties were/are made.  However, dossiers outlining his or any other Orthodox hierarchs collaboration with the Communists and denouncing them are not posted nor does it seem that Catholics are at all interested in defaming Orthodox hierarchs as some Orthodox seem to be obsessed with pointing to the Catholic Church as the source of their problems.

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« Reply #13 on: April 22, 2005, 11:15:11 AM »

I am sure passsing comments on Patriarch Alexy's KGb ties were/are made. However, dossiers outlining his or any other Orthodox hierarchs collaboration with the Communists and denouncing them are not posted nor does it seem that Catholics are at all interested in defaming Orthodox hierarchs as some Orthodox seem to be obsessed with pointing to the Catholic Church as the source of their problems.

I have seen repeated mention in other places inferences that Alexy and other Russian clergy were and still are tainted by KGB collaboration.

I read today through two threads on Byzcath today that struck me as having a decidedly anti-Russian tone.
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« Reply #14 on: April 22, 2005, 11:51:15 AM »

[As for Pope John Paul II, I do not think he is perfect either, but I don't know of any person, saint or otherwise, who is.  I just think it is still too soon after his death to start this nonsense.]

Fr Deacon Lance:

What you consider as nonsense and propaganda are indeed facts as we have pointed out to you.  You have yet to disprove any of the allegations made in this article.  Until you do, to label them as nonsense and/or propaganda
is misleading.

Most highly known world figures are evaluated after their deaths.  The Pope is no different. 

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« Reply #15 on: April 22, 2005, 11:53:32 AM »

Quote
Since this is an Orthodox forum I would think the 40 day period of prayer for the departed is a wise guideline.

That sounds like a mighty fine idea to me.

I would disagree on the level of hostility to Orthodox hierarchs in Catholic discussions, including the one board mentioned, although I am certainly not limiting my discussion to that alone. I think we should leave that subject alone as well.
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« Reply #16 on: April 22, 2005, 11:54:42 AM »

If you want praise, die.  If you want blame, marry.

Sorry.  Couldn't help myself.
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« Reply #17 on: April 22, 2005, 12:04:26 PM »

Cizinec,

    Once again, you beat me to the punch (I'm getting tired of this  Wink). 

Deacon Lance,

     If I have said something to offend you, I apologize.  I have done my very best to refrain from talking negatively about Pope John Paul II during Great Lent and I hope the level of discourse can remain high after Pascha.

     However, to dismiss some blatant facts as "anti-Catholic" propoganda, is neither fair nor honest.  My people (I'm speaking narrowly in the Serbian sense, as opposed to my family in faith), have suffered terribly at the hands of nationalistic Croats, under the guise of Roman Catholic supremacy. 

     In addition, I often wondered where the RC condemnation was when more than 300,000 Serbs were forced out of Krajina at gun point and sent to Serbia in the largest scale of mass expulsion in Europe since WWII?  It seems as though your humanitarian Pope, forgot the Serbs were human.

     Again, I'm trying my best to refrain from antagonizing anyone on a personal level, but that, good Deacon, is a two-way street.
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« Reply #18 on: April 22, 2005, 12:56:59 PM »

Deacon Lance's comment is just yet another proof of "Byzantine Catholic" blind papal devotion.  If Stepinac is a saint, he is the patron saint of genocide and systematic murder.

" Indeed, for the most part, the clergy welcomed the new regime with fanatical enthusiasm. The Catholic Church had long considered Croatia its outer bulwark in the Balkans against the Eastern Orthodox Church and grated against participation in a Yugoslavia dominated by their confessional opponents. Most also shared to some degree the ideological goals of the Ustashe and welcomed the end of the religious tolerance that had been imposed by Yugoslavia.

Archbishop Saric of Sarajevo even went so far as to publish poetry extolling the Ustashe Leader. The words of his "Ode to Pavelic" reflect the xenophobic religious nationalism endemic among the clergy:

Against the greedy Jews with all their money,
who wanted to sell our souls,
betray our names
those miserable ones.

You are the rock on which rests
homeland and freedom in one
Protect our lives from hell,
from Marxism and Bolshevism "

Great Poem,huh, deacon lance?


We're not done yet !  Here is a quote from Stepinac the Murderer

 Stepinac too showed evidence of anti-Serbian xenophobia in his writings:

All in all, Croats and Serbs are of two worlds, northpole and southpole; they will never be able to get together unless by a miracle of God. The schism [Eastern Orthodoxy] is the greatest curse in Europe, almost greater than Protestantism. Here there is no moral, no principles, no truth, no justice, no honesty. 10. Diary Entry for 28 March 1941 quoted in Dedijer along with a photograph of the original entry in Stepinac's handwriting! 

Perhaps This is yet another Eastern Orthodox Conspiracy?  Alas, wrong again- kind of like Uniatism Wink  Nope, the writer was actually non-Orthodox.  If I respond with this much vitriol, it is not because I am serb, because I am not.  It angers me how you just accept these "canonizations" with a blind faith.

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« Reply #19 on: April 22, 2005, 01:30:51 PM »

Well, I wouldn't have been that upset, emmanuelmelo.  The quote from Stepinac is not nearly as bad as it could have been.  Stepinac did, apparently, help some Jews escape (although I've never heard of him helping a Serb).

To me, the greatest sin was in playing it safe.  He never came out in his own writing and said, "I'm a fascist, kill all Jews, Serbs and Gypsies."  But then he never tried to stop his priests who *were* making such statements.  He was in support of the "armed forces" of Croatia and he prayed for them.  He ensured there were priests with the Ustashe.  Why not?  There were many Catholics in the Ustashe.  This could be viewed as blessing the actions of the Ustashe.

But he was viewed by the communists as anti-communist so that was probably what endeared him to the previous pope.

All told, I think Stepinac was a political animal who was most concerned with playing it cool with the fascists.  In the end his complicity cost him. 
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« Reply #20 on: April 22, 2005, 01:38:13 PM »

Quote
All in all, Croats and Serbs are of two worlds, northpole and southpole; they will never be able to get together unless by a miracle of God.

Okay.  It's taking it a little far, but I can see someone frustrated saying this.  He's not saying "kill all Serbs."

Quote
The schism [Eastern Orthodoxy] is the greatest curse in Europe, almost greater than Protestantism.

I agree with him on that point.  He says "the schism", not as you have it in brackets, the Orthodox. 

Quote
Here there is no moral, no principles, no truth, no justice, no honesty.

Here he appears to be lamenting the current state of affairs.  He's not saying he wants these things.


Once again, my problem with this fellow, who seems to have been very careful with his words, is that he lended a hand to the Nazis, one of the three greatest evils of the 20th Century.  He remained ambiguous and quiet in the face of evil.  One may remember another bishop following the same method:  Karol Wojtila of Poland was not known as a great fighter of communism until he was no longer under it.

Stepinac may or may not be as bad as people say.  It's hard for me to tell.  But he ain't no saint.
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« Reply #21 on: April 22, 2005, 01:45:28 PM »

I agree with him on that point. He says "the schism", not as you have it in brackets, the Orthodox.

Cizinec,

     I think you are being very generous in your interpretation of this line.  If we (Orthodox) are schismatic of them (Roman Catholics), then "we" are the greatest curse in Europe.  Furthermore, don't you think that there comes a point in time where a certain level of inaction becomes criminal? 
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« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2005, 02:16:30 PM »

SouthSerb99,

Yes, I do think so. But I'm trying to be mindful of my own sins of complacency and I'm trying not to judge him. I don't know what was in his heart. His words are ambiguous, although his actions could amplify what he meant.

I don't think it was wise to beatify such a person if he remained unrepentant. I don't really know. What I do know is that his speach was not as inflamatory as the speach of many of his priests. Was he a good shephard? No because he allowed his priests to murder. Was he a saint? I don't know what was in his heart when he died, but I think the pope beatifying him was wrong. Was he a war criminal? As far as I can tell he did not actively murder.

But my goodness, we're talking about someone who is beatified and for whom schools are named. I may be being generous, but my goodness . . .
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« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2005, 02:25:59 PM »

By the way, I would not be nice about that line either.

Let me rewrite it.

The schism is the greatest curse in Europe, greater than Protestantism - the inevitable result of schismatic thought.  Here there is no moral, no principles, no truth, no justice, no honesty, only a lust for supreme power, not only over earthly powers, but heavenly as well.

That opinion means nothing.  If, however, I were a bishop and I sent priests to serve Serbs who were massacring innocent Croat civilians tihs line could take on other significance.  But then I've amplified it in a way that Stepinac did not.  He remained perfectly obscure in this writing.
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« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2005, 02:47:43 PM »

Cizinec,

  Also keep in mind in 1992 on the day of Pentecost our Blessed Patriarch Pavle made a very public statement that the SOC "has never taught its people to seize the possessions of others and to kill in order to obtain them, but only to defend its own sanctuaries".

  Now I am obviously a little biased when it come to our Patriarch, but I do think he is such a magnificent treasure to Orthodoxy. Having said that, many "media" outlets have really been tough on him and the SOC because of the wars in the former Yugoslavia, but Stepinac is an unchallenged Saint???
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« Reply #25 on: April 22, 2005, 02:55:53 PM »

To provide a bit of balance to this discussion, check out the following picture:

http://www.rcp-brcko.com/galerije/karadzic/karadzic-spp.jpg

Nationalistic orthodoxy can be just as ugly as nationalistic Catholicism.  Both are equally sinful.  Gle moji brace.  Two outstanding orthodox fellows:  Ratko Mladic and Radovan Karadzic.  We can debate on whether they are war criminals, but I don’t think that anyone would hang upon them the title of ‘humanitarian’ let alone humane.
(Please note, I’m not attacking Patriarch Pavle by posting this picture.  He’s my Patriarch, and I love him dearly.  Those who don’t know much about him could be scandalized by the association this picture makes, though.)

http://www.rcp-brcko.com/galerije/arkan/Arkan%2004.JPG

This lovely fellow, know as Arkan, murdered and pillaged his way across the Balkans during the 90’s.  He is perhaps best known for his flamboyant marriage to the Serb pop singer Ceca, and his murdering of innocent civilians in the hospital of Vukovar.  Notice the very large cross.  He popularly styled himself a defender of Orthodoxy against the crusader neo-Ustase.

Things have never been black and white in the Balkans.  Please remember that. Before the outbreak of hostilities, even our beloved St. Nikolai of Zica likened Hitler to St. Sava.   
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« Reply #26 on: April 22, 2005, 03:12:56 PM »

Sivisokol,

      I think the photograph of our blessed Patriarch has absolutely NO negative connotations.  It is a still photo which has a context. It says nothing about Patriarch Pavle's commitment to humanity.

      Arkan was a common criminal.  The same as you will find all over the world.  Yes, he put nationalism before faith, but I don't see the relevance here.

      We are talking about a Pope that beatified (at least in my mind, an accessory to mass murder) and the Catholic Church of Croatia which had a kill 1/3, convert 1/3 and expell 1/3 policy for the "Serb problem".

      Just because Arkan is toting a cross, makes him no more Orthodox than Madonna (who use to be RC).  Wink
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« Reply #27 on: April 22, 2005, 03:23:25 PM »

Wasn't trying to negative about Patriarch Pavle.  My point was about the two evil idiots behind him.  Both they, Arkan, and a host of other folks had a tendency to drape themselves in a sort of through the looking glass 'popular village' Orthodoxy during the 90's. 

Also, not all Catholic Croatians supported the Ustase.  The quote you use "kill a third..." etc. is from an official in the Ustase government.

My family is mixed.  I've seen both sides to the arguments for both sides' actions during the 90's.  WWII is a slightly different matter, of which I am firmly on the side of our suffering church.
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« Reply #28 on: April 22, 2005, 03:36:53 PM »

Whether fortunate or unfortunate... I've seen both sides of the argument a little more up close.  I've been working for many Serbs at the ICTY.

I know I'm going to probably take a lot of heat for what I'm about to write (given the demonization of Serbians in the western media), but I think your comments about Karadzic and Mladic are hasty.

Now, I'm not trying to be an apolgoist for Serbian wrong doing, however, I can say 100%, unequivocally that I believe the current charges against Milosevic are a joke.  His trial is a joke, the Judges are a joke, the process is a joke.

Do I believe Slobo should be in jail?  Absolutely.  Just not in the Hague.  He should've been tried and convicted for the theft, rape and pillage of his own country, and should be sitting in a jail in Beograd right now, but the Hague... no way.

I'm going way off topic here, but a quick examination of the plea agreement between Biljana Plavsic and the tribunal evidences much of this (a matter I worked on personally with some brilliant Serb attorneys in Chicago).
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« Reply #29 on: April 22, 2005, 03:48:34 PM »

This topic is a depressing one.  I've pretty much refused to follow the news on this area since the Dayton accord was signed, and I've avoided Slobo's trial.  I don't like him. I do agree with you about where he should be in jail, though.  I disagree with you however in your assessment of Karadzic and Mladic.  Having Croatian relatives from around Banja Luka will do that to ya.
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