Author Topic: Farewell OC.net  (Read 3283 times)

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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Farewell OC.net
« Reply #45 on: June 22, 2014, 11:38:57 PM »
And then when the opportunity knocks, let's all collect a few people to blame oc.net for its lax policies.  Who's bullying who?

Oh just shut up, Mina! 



























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Offline minasoliman

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Re: Farewell OC.net
« Reply #46 on: June 22, 2014, 11:43:30 PM »
Bully!
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Offline SolEX01

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Re: Farewell OC.net
« Reply #47 on: June 22, 2014, 11:49:47 PM »
But when people act like jerks or make strange comments, you will not always get a sympathetic response.

There are people with active, untreated mental illness on this board.  As long as they follow the forum rules, they may make comments that appear strange - should they be criticized for doing so?

Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

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Re: Farewell OC.net
« Reply #48 on: June 22, 2014, 11:51:04 PM »
Sometimes the allegation of bullying is such a ridiculous notion over the internet, it turns into conspiracy theories with people.

And then when the opportunity knocks, let's all collect a few people to blame oc.net for its lax policies.  Who's bullying who?


I think we all recognize it when we see it. It's one thing to ridicule ideas, but when it becomes a personal insult or attack then I think that's very sad and inexcusable. Some of us have thick skins and don't let it bother us. But some people are much more sensitive. We can't just tell someone who's struggling with depression or suicidal thoughts to "toughen up." Our personal attacks can send them over the edge. We should at least consider that.


Selam
""Love is a dangerous thing. It will crush you if you trust it. But without it you can never be whole. Love crucifies, but love saves. We will either be saved together with love, or damned alone without it."    Selam, +GMK+

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Farewell OC.net
« Reply #49 on: June 22, 2014, 11:57:38 PM »
But when people act like jerks or make strange comments, you will not always get a sympathetic response.

There are people with active, untreated mental illness on this board.  As long as they follow the forum rules, they may make comments that appear strange - should they be criticized for doing so?

I'm sure Mina was not criticising such people.  What I'm not sure of is whether or not the people who don't quite know what to do with that are being criticised for this limitation. 
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Offline minasoliman

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Re: Farewell OC.net
« Reply #50 on: June 23, 2014, 12:03:28 AM »
Sometimes the allegation of bullying is such a ridiculous notion over the internet, it turns into conspiracy theories with people.

And then when the opportunity knocks, let's all collect a few people to blame oc.net for its lax policies.  Who's bullying who?


I think we all recognize it when we see it. It's one thing to ridicule ideas, but when it becomes a personal insult or attack then I think that's very sad and inexcusable. Some of us have thick skins and don't let it bother us. But some people are much more sensitive. We can't just tell someone who's struggling with depression or suicidal thoughts to "toughen up." Our personal attacks can send them over the edge. We should at least consider that.


Selam

I don't disagree with you.  In fact, it's against the rules to insult someone in the public forum. So this behavior is unacceptable. And when someone expresses suicidal ideations on this site, I take that very seriously.  And I certainly do not belittle those with psychiatric issues.  If I belittle, it is the views expressed.  If that is bullying, then I am sure the forums is not a good place for these people to begin with.
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline SolEX01

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Re: Farewell OC.net
« Reply #51 on: June 23, 2014, 12:04:27 AM »
But when people act like jerks or make strange comments, you will not always get a sympathetic response.

There are people with active, untreated mental illness on this board.  As long as they follow the forum rules, they may make comments that appear strange - should they be criticized for doing so?

I'm sure Mina was not criticising such people.  What I'm not sure of is whether or not the people who don't quite know what to do with that are being criticised for this limitation. 

Did you deliberately make a strange comment?   :police:

Could you rephrase it for clarity?   ???

Offline SolEX01

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Re: Farewell OC.net
« Reply #52 on: June 23, 2014, 12:06:57 AM »
I don't disagree with you.  In fact, it's against the rules to insult someone in the public forum. So this behavior is unacceptable. And when someone expresses suicidal ideations on this site, I take that very seriously.  And I certainly do not belittle those with psychiatric issues.  If I belittle, it is the views expressed.  If that is bullying, then I am sure the forums is not a good place for these people to begin with.

I agree with you on that principle; however, you and I can't stop these people from signing up for accounts on the forum and posting if they have the mental ability to do so.

Offline Maria

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Re: Farewell OC.net
« Reply #53 on: June 23, 2014, 12:15:03 AM »
Sometimes the allegation of bullying is such a ridiculous notion over the internet, it turns into conspiracy theories with people.

And then when the opportunity knocks, let's all collect a few people to blame oc.net for its lax policies.  Who's bullying who?

I have already shared this information with Liza. The gang in question sends emails back and forth to plan moves to get moderators as well as members to leave.
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Offline minasoliman

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Re: Farewell OC.net
« Reply #54 on: June 23, 2014, 12:17:17 AM »
I don't disagree with you.  In fact, it's against the rules to insult someone in the public forum. So this behavior is unacceptable. And when someone expresses suicidal ideations on this site, I take that very seriously.  And I certainly do not belittle those with psychiatric issues.  If I belittle, it is the views expressed.  If that is bullying, then I am sure the forums is not a good place for these people to begin with.

I agree with you on that principle; however, you and I can't stop these people from signing up for accounts on the forum and posting if they have the mental ability to do so.

You and I can't stop these people from doing ANYTHING online.
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

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Re: Farewell OC.net
« Reply #55 on: June 23, 2014, 12:18:14 AM »
But when people act like jerks or make strange comments, you will not always get a sympathetic response.

There are people with active, untreated mental illness on this board.  As long as they follow the forum rules, they may make comments that appear strange - should they be criticized for doing so?

Then there are people with active, treated mental illness on this board. Even with pharmaceuticals and regular appointments with their psychiatrists, they still have psychotic episodes. They need our prayers, not our sarcasm.
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Offline Maria

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Re: Farewell OC.net
« Reply #56 on: June 23, 2014, 12:19:21 AM »
Sometimes the allegation of bullying is such a ridiculous notion over the internet, it turns into conspiracy theories with people.

And then when the opportunity knocks, let's all collect a few people to blame oc.net for its lax policies.  Who's bullying who?


I think we all recognize it when we see it. It's one thing to ridicule ideas, but when it becomes a personal insult or attack then I think that's very sad and inexcusable. Some of us have thick skins and don't let it bother us. But some people are much more sensitive. We can't just tell someone who's struggling with depression or suicidal thoughts to "toughen up." Our personal attacks can send them over the edge. We should at least consider that.


Selam

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Offline minasoliman

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Re: Farewell OC.net
« Reply #57 on: June 23, 2014, 12:19:48 AM »
Sometimes the allegation of bullying is such a ridiculous notion over the internet, it turns into conspiracy theories with people.

And then when the opportunity knocks, let's all collect a few people to blame oc.net for its lax policies.  Who's bullying who?

I have already shared this information with Liza. The gang in question sends emails back and forth to plan moves to get moderators as well as members to leave.

I don't even know what to say about this one except, may the Lord have mercy!
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

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Re: Farewell OC.net
« Reply #58 on: June 23, 2014, 12:21:43 AM »
Sometimes the allegation of bullying is such a ridiculous notion over the internet, it turns into conspiracy theories with people.

And then when the opportunity knocks, let's all collect a few people to blame oc.net for its lax policies.  Who's bullying who?


I think we all recognize it when we see it. It's one thing to ridicule ideas, but when it becomes a personal insult or attack then I think that's very sad and inexcusable. Some of us have thick skins and don't let it bother us. But some people are much more sensitive. We can't just tell someone who's struggling with depression or suicidal thoughts to "toughen up." Our personal attacks can send them over the edge. We should at least consider that.


Selam

I don't disagree with you.  In fact, it's against the rules to insult someone in the public forum. So this behavior is unacceptable. And when someone expresses suicidal ideations on this site, I take that very seriously.  And I certainly do not belittle those with psychiatric issues.  If I belittle, it is the views expressed.  If that is bullying, then I am sure the forums is not a good place for these people to begin with.

I've never seen you bully anyone Mina. You seem to be able to distinguish between ridiculing ideas and ridiculing people. Unfortunately, not everyone knows how to do that. As for people with psychiatric issues, I imagine most of them don't disclose that info. So we should err on the side of caution. We will all have to give account for every idle word, much more words that are hateful and arrogant. Lord knows I have a lot to account for.

"Lord have mercy." +++


Selam
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Offline Gebre Menfes Kidus

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Re: Farewell OC.net
« Reply #59 on: June 23, 2014, 12:22:40 AM »
But when people act like jerks or make strange comments, you will not always get a sympathetic response.

There are people with active, untreated mental illness on this board.  As long as they follow the forum rules, they may make comments that appear strange - should they be criticized for doing so?

Then there are people with active, treated mental illness on this board. Even with pharmaceuticals and regular appointments with their psychiatrists, they still have psychotic episodes. They need our prayers, not our sarcasm.

Amen Maria.


Selam
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Offline SolEX01

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Re: Farewell OC.net
« Reply #60 on: June 23, 2014, 12:23:07 AM »
I don't disagree with you.  In fact, it's against the rules to insult someone in the public forum. So this behavior is unacceptable. And when someone expresses suicidal ideations on this site, I take that very seriously.  And I certainly do not belittle those with psychiatric issues.  If I belittle, it is the views expressed.  If that is bullying, then I am sure the forums is not a good place for these people to begin with.

I agree with you on that principle; however, you and I can't stop these people from signing up for accounts on the forum and posting if they have the mental ability to do so.

You and I can't stop these people from doing ANYTHING online.

True, but when they are on an Orthodox Christian forum where Christ is ever present, they deserve mercy and respect plus appropriate moderation when boundaries are crossed, etc.

Offline Opus118

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Re: Farewell OC.net
« Reply #61 on: June 23, 2014, 12:24:30 AM »
But when people act like jerks or make strange comments, you will not always get a sympathetic response.

There are people with active, untreated mental illness on this board.  As long as they follow the forum rules, they may make comments that appear strange - should they be criticized for doing so?

I'm sure Mina was not criticising such people.  What I'm not sure of is whether or not the people who don't quite know what to do with that are being criticised for this limitation. 

Mor, I would not phrase this the same as SolEX01, but this is the issue I was referring to. I am fairly sure Mina was not aware of this particular aspect. My judgement is not perfect and although a public statement was warranted, I should have volunteered a private one as well.

It is a learning experience.

I see there are now 8 new posts, but whatever.


Offline Maria

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Re: Farewell OC.net
« Reply #62 on: June 23, 2014, 12:25:14 AM »
Sometimes the allegation of bullying is such a ridiculous notion over the internet, it turns into conspiracy theories with people.

And then when the opportunity knocks, let's all collect a few people to blame oc.net for its lax policies.  Who's bullying who?


I think we all recognize it when we see it. It's one thing to ridicule ideas, but when it becomes a personal insult or attack then I think that's very sad and inexcusable. Some of us have thick skins and don't let it bother us. But some people are much more sensitive. We can't just tell someone who's struggling with depression or suicidal thoughts to "toughen up." Our personal attacks can send them over the edge. We should at least consider that.


Selam

I don't disagree with you.  In fact, it's against the rules to insult someone in the public forum. So this behavior is unacceptable. And when someone expresses suicidal ideations on this site, I take that very seriously.  And I certainly do not belittle those with psychiatric issues.  If I belittle, it is the views expressed.  If that is bullying, then I am sure the forums is not a good place for these people to begin with.

I've never seen you bully anyone Mina. You seem to be able to distinguish between ridiculing ideas and ridiculing people. Unfortunately, not everyone knows how to do that. As for people with psychiatric issues, I imagine most of them don't disclose that info. So we should err on the side of caution. We will all have to give account for every idle word, much more words that are hateful and arrogant. Lord knows I have a lot to account for.

"Lord have mercy." +++


Selam

I agree. Mina is one of the best moderators on staff.
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Offline Maria

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Re: Farewell OC.net
« Reply #63 on: June 23, 2014, 12:26:36 AM »
I don't disagree with you.  In fact, it's against the rules to insult someone in the public forum. So this behavior is unacceptable. And when someone expresses suicidal ideations on this site, I take that very seriously.  And I certainly do not belittle those with psychiatric issues.  If I belittle, it is the views expressed.  If that is bullying, then I am sure the forums is not a good place for these people to begin with.

I agree with you on that principle; however, you and I can't stop these people from signing up for accounts on the forum and posting if they have the mental ability to do so.

You and I can't stop these people from doing ANYTHING online.

True, but when they are on an Orthodox Christian forum where Christ is ever present, they deserve mercy and respect plus appropriate moderation when boundaries are crossed, etc.

+100000
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Offline minasoliman

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Re: Farewell OC.net
« Reply #64 on: June 23, 2014, 12:32:51 AM »
As Liza said earlier, we're open for suggestions, but as was mentioned earlier, we do try to allow a level of freedom, freedom to joke, to criticize, to be polemical in certain parts of the forum.

To make the best out of a situation, if there is anyone suggestive of a psychiatric issue, please share it with us privately and suggest ways which we can handle the situation.

I think I'm going to take Mor's advice and shut up now.  :P
« Last Edit: June 23, 2014, 12:33:02 AM by minasoliman »
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Offline Opus118

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Re: Farewell OC.net
« Reply #65 on: June 23, 2014, 12:37:02 AM »
I don't disagree with you.  In fact, it's against the rules to insult someone in the public forum. So this behavior is unacceptable. And when someone expresses suicidal ideations on this site, I take that very seriously.  And I certainly do not belittle those with psychiatric issues.  If I belittle, it is the views expressed.  If that is bullying, then I am sure the forums is not a good place for these people to begin with.

I agree with you on that principle; however, you and I can't stop these people from signing up for accounts on the forum and posting if they have the mental ability to do so.

You and I can't stop these people from doing ANYTHING online.

True, but when they are on an Orthodox Christian forum where Christ is ever present, they deserve mercy and respect plus appropriate moderation when boundaries are crossed, etc.

+100000

I agree Maria and this is where they should be: amongst those that love and care about them. They should not be isolated and alone all day long. This world makes little sense to me otherwise.

Offline Maria

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Re: Farewell OC.net
« Reply #66 on: June 23, 2014, 12:40:03 AM »
I don't disagree with you.  In fact, it's against the rules to insult someone in the public forum. So this behavior is unacceptable. And when someone expresses suicidal ideations on this site, I take that very seriously.  And I certainly do not belittle those with psychiatric issues.  If I belittle, it is the views expressed.  If that is bullying, then I am sure the forums is not a good place for these people to begin with.

I agree with you on that principle; however, you and I can't stop these people from signing up for accounts on the forum and posting if they have the mental ability to do so.

You and I can't stop these people from doing ANYTHING online.

True, but when they are on an Orthodox Christian forum where Christ is ever present, they deserve mercy and respect plus appropriate moderation when boundaries are crossed, etc.

+100000

I agree Maria and this is where they should be: amongst those that love and care about them. They should not be isolated and alone all day long. This world makes little sense to me otherwise.


You know that I care and am praying for you. I think that Wesley is taking a needed break. He does that periodically. May God grant you both many years.
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Farewell OC.net
« Reply #67 on: June 23, 2014, 01:01:27 AM »
But when people act like jerks or make strange comments, you will not always get a sympathetic response.

There are people with active, untreated mental illness on this board.  As long as they follow the forum rules, they may make comments that appear strange - should they be criticized for doing so?

I'm sure Mina was not criticising such people.  What I'm not sure of is whether or not the people who don't quite know what to do with that are being criticised for this limitation. 

Did you deliberately make a strange comment?   :police:

Could you rephrase it for clarity?   ???

You seem to be asking if we should criticise the mentally ill who may post strange comments.  I don't think so, no.  

But if there are people among us who don't understand what they are trying to say and consequently cannot offer constructive comments, I don't think it should be assumed that this is because they don't care and would rather go after easy targets.

I think the latter is happening more than the former, at least in this thread.      
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Offline SolEX01

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Re: Farewell OC.net
« Reply #68 on: June 23, 2014, 01:08:57 AM »
But when people act like jerks or make strange comments, you will not always get a sympathetic response.

There are people with active, untreated mental illness on this board.  As long as they follow the forum rules, they may make comments that appear strange - should they be criticized for doing so?

I'm sure Mina was not criticising such people.  What I'm not sure of is whether or not the people who don't quite know what to do with that are being criticised for this limitation. 

Did you deliberately make a strange comment?   :police:

Could you rephrase it for clarity?   ???

You seem to be asking if we should criticise the mentally ill who may post strange comments.  I don't think so, no.  

But if there are people among us who don't understand what they are trying to say and consequently cannot offer constructive comments, I don't think it should be assumed that this is because they don't care and would rather go after easy targets.

I think the latter is happening more than the former, at least in this thread.      

I agree.  Not every forum member has the shield of righteousness to protect oneself from those seeking easy targets....

Offline Maria

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Re: Farewell OC.net
« Reply #69 on: June 23, 2014, 01:12:58 AM »

This Forum, is in a way a part of this world.  Some days are good, and some days are bad.

There are many positive individuals who wish to communicate with other Orthodox, there are people who merely wish to learn about Orthodoxy, some have questions, some wish to have something explained....all here admittedly do learn something about Orthodoxy.  I know I have.

There are also negative people on the Forum, just like in the world.  There are people who thrive on conflict, can never admit they might be wrong, don't wish to see other's point of view, and are Pharisaical....and tend to bring negativity onto the Forum.

There are people who merely are having a bad day, or are struggling at the moment, don't feel well, have a headache, are in trouble with the boss, or the wife, or both....and come across as angry and intolerant.  They really aren't....they are just having issues and we must be patient with them, and help them.

The Forum is not a negative place, but, we tend to bring negativity onto the Forum.

If anyone finds this Forum to be negative, than I assign you the task of changing that around.

Be nice to everyone, be supportive, kind and understanding.  Don't jump at the bait, don't snap at the wagging finger....just let it go.

Everyone, even Dan, has every right to discuss their feelings on this thread and the entire Forum.  Yes, we know he's had issues, but, there's no need to throw them in his face at every opportunity.  We all make mistakes, we all sin, we fall....we get back up.  Let us encourage each other, not discourage.

If anyone has suggestions on how we can make this Forum "more" positive, feel free to share you suggestions with us.  No guarantees they will be implemented, but, this is a free country, and you can speak your piece - as long as it abides by Forum Rules.  ;)



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Offline Salpy

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Re: Farewell OC.net
« Reply #70 on: June 23, 2014, 01:17:58 AM »
I think it's time for a cute picture:




Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Farewell OC.net
« Reply #71 on: June 23, 2014, 01:33:49 AM »
Salpy, please stop posting photos of naked animals.  :P
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Offline Maria

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Re: Farewell OC.net
« Reply #72 on: June 23, 2014, 01:42:49 AM »
I think it's time for a cute picture:





So cute!
Ἅγιος ὁ Θεός
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Offline Salpy

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Re: Farewell OC.net
« Reply #73 on: June 23, 2014, 01:57:32 AM »
Salpy, please stop posting photos of naked animals.  :P

Is this better?


Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Farewell OC.net
« Reply #74 on: June 23, 2014, 02:00:35 AM »
Salpy, please stop posting photos of naked animals.  :P

Is this better?



A head covering and everything!  Salpy, you are the best Armenian ever. 
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Offline hecma925

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Re: Farewell OC.net
« Reply #75 on: June 23, 2014, 05:43:17 AM »
I thought cute puppies were for another thread.
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Offline Cyrillic

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Re: Farewell OC.net
« Reply #76 on: June 23, 2014, 08:29:26 AM »
Am I out of my league to write what I wrote?  Did I say someone broke the rules?

Possibly. You told him that it would be good riddance if he left and reminded him of his numerous accounts (reply #15). Not too long ago I was warned for that for being rude/gossipy, and I expressed myself more nuanced than you did.

PtA even said (in greentext):

Fr. George chose to forgive Dan-Romania and reinstate him to this forum. Can you not honor Fr. George's administrative decision by, at the least, forgiving Dan yourself?

So there's that.

Then again, I'm not a mod anymore so I don't have to make those tough decisions.

Do people even read the rules?

Not that I know of.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2014, 08:33:25 AM by Cyrillic »
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Farewell OC.net
« Reply #77 on: June 23, 2014, 09:01:24 AM »
Am I out of my league to write what I wrote?  Did I say someone broke the rules?

Possibly. You told him that it would be good riddance if he left and reminded him of his numerous accounts (reply #15). Not too long ago I was warned for that for being rude/gossipy, and I expressed myself more nuanced than you did.
You also did that on Faith Issues, where the rules are a lot tighter than they are here on the FFA boards. Mina knows where he's posting and knows that one can get away with a lot more polemic here than on Faith Issues.

PtA even said (in greentext):

Fr. George chose to forgive Dan-Romania and reinstate him to this forum. Can you not honor Fr. George's administrative decision by, at the least, forgiving Dan yourself?

So there's that.
Indeed, there is that. Fr. George did reinstate Dan-Romania with our consent, so it seems unmerciful and coldly unforgiving for us to now call D-R out for things he did before he got banned.
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Re: Farewell OC.net
« Reply #78 on: June 23, 2014, 09:20:26 AM »
I just took the trouble of actually reading the thread from beginning to end. Now, now, we haven't had such a disaster of a thread in a quite a few months.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2014, 09:20:54 AM by Cyrillic »
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Farewell OC.net
« Reply #79 on: June 23, 2014, 09:21:20 AM »
I just took the trouble of actually reading the thread from beginning to end. Now, now, we haven't had such a disaster of a thread in a quite a few months.
True.
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Offline converted viking

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Re: Farewell OC.net
« Reply #80 on: June 23, 2014, 09:38:45 AM »
"Acquire a peaceful spirit, and around you thousands will be saved."  St Seraphim of Sarov

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Farewell OC.net
« Reply #81 on: June 23, 2014, 09:47:49 AM »
nothing wrong with arguments, just with negative things... you only see of bad stuff, faithless, insecurity, fear, condemnation, blah blah blah :D , avoidance to discuss important matter of the faith.. only negative emotions... just like all my experience of Orthodoxy everywhere :)... one has to wonder...

This is what happens when the focus of one's religion becomes the practice of rituals, fasts, ceremonies, correctness of art and music and the like.  It is re-establishing the old Law which brought nothing but death and destruction.  Christ is the opposite of this.  The new rituals that He wishes us to perform are to help those around us, love each other, bring the Word of God to those who do not have it (and it helps if it is in their own language).  These are not negative things, but positives.  Yes, they can bring sadness.  When you get out in the world and start helping people, you see how fallen the world really is, and the pain that mankind suffers as a result.  But this sadness for these people IS the love of God, provided that you follow the commands of Christ and feed those that are hungry, clothe those that are naked, and visit those that are sick and in prison.  It is too bad that we come to an Orthodox forum to read "look at me fast", "should I masturbate", "can I have sex with my wife", "what new rules can I encumber my conscience with", "is it OK to be gay" thread rather than "how can I help".  WPM tried such a thread yesterday.  I had planned on answering it this morning and spent some of the evening looking for some places that he could put his money that would help him follow the will of Christ.  I think that he was asking more than just the obvious, however. Maybe he just should have asked if he should masturbate.  He would have had four pages of answers in 24 hours.

If you get a chance, go ahead and let me know what you think of this post by WPM:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,59053.0.html

And then come back and complain about how an "Orthodox forum" is.  Or better yet, if you're too annoyed, maybe you should pack your bags too.

Grow up people.  Stop acting like the whole world is crap because of an Orthodox forum, especially when you haven't even been to other religious forums to actually form an objective opinion.

I'm sick and tired of people just acting like they're sick and tired.  If you don't like reading posts here or being here, then leave.  Don't come.  You probably have better things to do, like reading non-religious forums.

Minasoliman

I thought Punch's post was helpful and almost perfect. I do not think yours is in this regard. I am not referring to Dan-Romania, because I have not followed his posts and I think it is wrong to have responses to Dan-Romania rather than WPM, when WPM is the one in immediate need. I am sure Dan-Romania will agree with me and will be willing to be left out of the discussion.  I have kept a watchful eye on WPMs posts when I come across them. I also saw the thread that you refer to soon after he started it. It should slide, I can certainly rationalize it and I could possibly defend it if I had more information. If you have been following WPM's history then we should converse by PM because we have serious differences in opinion.

This does not mean that my impressions of WPM are correct (I have never communicated with him) but base on what I know, I love and care about him and will defend him, which I am doing now.

The impression I got from Punch's post is an encouragement to the "blame the site" game.  It's this type of behavior that I will criticize.  Make of it what you will.

I re-read his post (reply #9) and I do not see your concern. For the most part I think he was spot on (with the exception of the English only idea). He is not complaining about the forum, but of the lack of helpfulness of people in the forum. People here often go after the easy fruit that has nothing to do with the Original Post or Poster.

My perspective is that it takes a lot of time and courage for a person on this forum to bring up personal problems and feelings. I certainly do not do this sort of thing because I lack the courage (and I think with justification). It takes just as much courage and time to come up with what might be a thoughtful and helpful response. It is not easy and will likely take multiple posts to clarify the issues at hand.

What I do see more often than I want is that if JamesR comments on a thread, the thread becomes about him because ridiculing him is thoughtless and easy. I worry that the emotional effort of the OP is likewise ridiculed and rejected, and depending on the OP's state of mind, devastating.



Yes, indeed, certain posters in this forum often fail to address the subject addressed in the opening statement, but delight in ridiculing a targeted set of posters with ad hominems, baits, and taunts with the object of getting those targeted members upset so that these targeted individuals will break the rules and will be warned, put on moderation, or outrightly banned. K was one of these targeted individuals. He left. JamesR, Y, other members and I are also on their hit list. It is a form of bullying, and I might add that there is a current gang headed by one of our members who thrive on this form of bullying. You who are part of this gang of bullies know exactly who you are. Enough said.

If this gang of sarcastic individuals were to be warned, moderated, or muted, then this forum would be more charitable.
Yes, some of our forum's biggest bullies are actually those who cry the most about being bullied. For them, the bully card is an insidious tactic to try to draw public sympathy and sway public opinion in favor of what they believe should be the forum's modus operandi. Some people, whether it be because they always have bees in their bonnets/hornets in their hats, or they're immature, or they're bitter about their past experiences in the Church, love to say things that are not based on any facts at all. They're alarmists and crusaders. They love to build up straw men and conspiracy theories just so they can have fun knocking them down. And when they're called on their BS, they cry, "Stop bullying me!" They criticize others and their points of view to the point of hostility and bullying, yet they can't endure even a fraction of the scrutiny they dole out to others.

I think this video sums up their tactics pretty well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8ukak8P2vY
« Last Edit: June 23, 2014, 09:50:22 AM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline kelly

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Re: Farewell OC.net
« Reply #82 on: June 23, 2014, 09:54:02 AM »
I just took the trouble of actually reading the thread from beginning to end. Now, now, we haven't had such a disaster of a thread in a quite a few months.

That's a pretty generous statement.  :P

nothing wrong with arguments, just with negative things... you only see of bad stuff, faithless, insecurity, fear, condemnation, blah blah blah :D , avoidance to discuss important matter of the faith.. only negative emotions... just like all my experience of Orthodoxy everywhere :)... one has to wonder...

This is what happens when the focus of one's religion becomes the practice of rituals, fasts, ceremonies, correctness of art and music and the like.  It is re-establishing the old Law which brought nothing but death and destruction.  Christ is the opposite of this.  The new rituals that He wishes us to perform are to help those around us, love each other, bring the Word of God to those who do not have it (and it helps if it is in their own language).  These are not negative things, but positives.  Yes, they can bring sadness.  When you get out in the world and start helping people, you see how fallen the world really is, and the pain that mankind suffers as a result.  But this sadness for these people IS the love of God, provided that you follow the commands of Christ and feed those that are hungry, clothe those that are naked, and visit those that are sick and in prison.  It is too bad that we come to an Orthodox forum to read "look at me fast", "should I masturbate", "can I have sex with my wife", "what new rules can I encumber my conscience with", "is it OK to be gay" thread rather than "how can I help".  WPM tried such a thread yesterday.  I had planned on answering it this morning and spent some of the evening looking for some places that he could put his money that would help him follow the will of Christ.  I think that he was asking more than just the obvious, however. Maybe he just should have asked if he should masturbate.  He would have had four pages of answers in 24 hours.

If you get a chance, go ahead and let me know what you think of this post by WPM:

http://www.orthodoxchristianity.net/forum/index.php/topic,59053.0.html

And then come back and complain about how an "Orthodox forum" is.  Or better yet, if you're too annoyed, maybe you should pack your bags too.

Grow up people.  Stop acting like the whole world is crap because of an Orthodox forum, especially when you haven't even been to other religious forums to actually form an objective opinion.

I'm sick and tired of people just acting like they're sick and tired.  If you don't like reading posts here or being here, then leave.  Don't come.  You probably have better things to do, like reading non-religious forums.

Minasoliman

I thought Punch's post was helpful and almost perfect. I do not think yours is in this regard. I am not referring to Dan-Romania, because I have not followed his posts and I think it is wrong to have responses to Dan-Romania rather than WPM, when WPM is the one in immediate need. I am sure Dan-Romania will agree with me and will be willing to be left out of the discussion.  I have kept a watchful eye on WPMs posts when I come across them. I also saw the thread that you refer to soon after he started it. It should slide, I can certainly rationalize it and I could possibly defend it if I had more information. If you have been following WPM's history then we should converse by PM because we have serious differences in opinion.

This does not mean that my impressions of WPM are correct (I have never communicated with him) but base on what I know, I love and care about him and will defend him, which I am doing now.

The impression I got from Punch's post is an encouragement to the "blame the site" game.  It's this type of behavior that I will criticize.  Make of it what you will.

I re-read his post (reply #9) and I do not see your concern. For the most part I think he was spot on (with the exception of the English only idea). He is not complaining about the forum, but of the lack of helpfulness of people in the forum. People here often go after the easy fruit that has nothing to do with the Original Post or Poster.

My perspective is that it takes a lot of time and courage for a person on this forum to bring up personal problems and feelings. I certainly do not do this sort of thing because I lack the courage (and I think with justification). It takes just as much courage and time to come up with what might be a thoughtful and helpful response. It is not easy and will likely take multiple posts to clarify the issues at hand.

What I do see more often than I want is that if JamesR comments on a thread, the thread becomes about him because ridiculing him is thoughtless and easy. I worry that the emotional effort of the OP is likewise ridiculed and rejected, and depending on the OP's state of mind, devastating.



Yes, indeed, certain posters in this forum often fail to address the subject addressed in the opening statement, but delight in ridiculing a targeted set of posters with ad hominems, baits, and taunts with the object of getting those targeted members upset so that these targeted individuals will break the rules and will be warned, put on moderation, or outrightly banned. K was one of these targeted individuals. He left. JamesR, Y, other members and I are also on their hit list. It is a form of bullying, and I might add that there is a current gang headed by one of our members who thrive on this form of bullying. You who are part of this gang of bullies know exactly who you are. Enough said.

If this gang of sarcastic individuals were to be warned, moderated, or muted, then this forum would be more charitable.
Yes, some of our forum's biggest bullies are actually those who cry the most about being bullied. For them, the bully card is an insidious tactic to try to draw public sympathy and sway public opinion in favor of what they believe should be the forum's modus operandi. Some people, whether it be because they always have bees in their bonnets/hornets in their hats, or they're immature, or they're bitter about their past experiences in the Church, love to say things that are not based on any facts at all. They're alarmists and crusaders. They love to build up straw men and conspiracy theories just so they can have fun knocking them down. And when they're called on their BS, they cry, "Stop bullying me!" They criticize others and their points of view to the point of hostility and bullying, yet they can't endure even a fraction of the scrutiny they dole out to others.

I think this video sums up their tactics pretty well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8ukak8P2vY

TRUTH.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2014, 09:55:03 AM by kelly »
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Offline LizaSymonenko

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Re: Farewell OC.net
« Reply #83 on: June 23, 2014, 10:07:14 AM »
Can we all just have a cyber hug?

We are, in fact, ALL good people. We are all here bound by one important thing, which we all have in common - our love for the Lord, and our desire to get to know Him and serve Him better.

We are all different, because He made us so.  It is part of our assignment to look beyond these differences, to accept the individuals, even if we cannot accept their opinions, and to love each other.  By doing so, we would be more forgiving, which would allow us to not always "have to win" the argument, to "get the last word", but, to perhaps take a step back and even be flexible enough to acknowledge that perhaps, the other person might have a point.

Either way, we are all brothers and sisters, and you know that the most painful and hurtful arguments occur within the family unit - because we love each other, and crave each other's acceptance and reciprocated love.

We need to also take a good look in the mirror, and contemplate the reflection that bounces back to us.  If we notice a festering boil, don't just slather makeup on it and ignore it, because that infection will spread. Instead, wash it out, and let it scab over.

I've noticed that I can get hotheaded when the things I hold near and dear are ridiculed or attacked. I feel I need to run to the aid and defend these concepts, beliefs, people and places.  It's ingrained in me to do this. I would not be true to myself if I didn't defend the things I love.

However, I hope that I can do this in a loving manner, without pontificating or hurting other's feelings.  I'm certain we all feel this way.

We are a great mix of God's creatures. I love how different we are, and yet how similar through our love for Him.

It is our duty to spread that love here on the Forum, and in the world. We must do so not with an attitude "that I know best", that "I am better" than them, for the first shall be last and the last first, and we are called to serve and not be served.

BIG super duper hug to you all.

Let us attempt to forgive, see beyond our differences and love one another.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2014, 10:10:26 AM by LizaSymonenko »
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Offline stavros_388

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Re: Farewell OC.net
« Reply #84 on: June 23, 2014, 10:24:16 AM »
Can we all just have a cyber hug?

We are, in fact, ALL good people. We are all here bound by one important thing, which we all lhave in common - our love for the Lord, and our desire to get to know Him and serve Him better.

We are all different, because He made us so.  It is part of our assignment to look beyond these differences, to accept the individuals, even if we cannot accept their opinions, and to love each other.  By doing so, we would be more forgiving, which would allow us to not always "have to win" the argument, to "get the last word", but, to perhaps take a step back and even be flexible enough to acknowledge that perhaps, the other person might have a point.

Either way, we are all brothers and sisters, and you know that the most painful and hurtful arguments occur within the family unit - because we love each other, and crave each other's acceptance and reciprocated love.

We need to also take a good look in the mirror, and contemplate the reflection that bounces back to us.  If we notice a festering boil, don't just slather makeup on it and ignore it, because that infection will spread. Instead, wash it out, and let it scab over.

I've noticed that I can get hotheaded when the things I hold near and dear are ridiculed or attacked. I feel I need to run to the aid and defend these concepts, beliefs, people and places.  It's ingrained in me to do this. I would not be true to myself if I didn't defend the things I love.

However, I hope that I can do this in a loving manner, without pontificating or hurting other's feelings.  I'm certain we all feel this way.

We are a great mix of God's creatures. I love how different we are, and yet how similar through our love for Him.

It is our duty to spread that love here on the Forum, and in the world. We must do so not with an attitude "that I know best", that "I am better" than them, for the first shall be last and the last first, and we are called to serve and not be served.

BIG super duper hug to you all.

Let us attempt to forgive, see beyond our differences and love one another.


Amen, sister!
"This is the cross - to become dead to the whole world, to suffer sorrows, temptations and other passions of Christ; in bearing this cross with complete patience, we imitate Christ's passion and thus glorify our God the Father as His sons in grace and co-heirs of Christ." --St. Symeon the New Theologian

Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: Farewell OC.net
« Reply #85 on: June 23, 2014, 10:32:36 AM »
I see two different things being discussed here.


a. people with true issues of a serious nature not being taken seriously.

b. other random people with no real issues, upset that their thoughts, ideas etc are not met with cheers.


Two very different things, and I see in the vast majority of cases that a. is handled much differently than b.

The vast majority of posters catch on pretty fast that someone is seriously troubled by their posts, and give them the 'go see a dr, and your priest' advice, since honestly that is -all- a bunch of internet yokels are equipped to do.  Sometimes this same message is repeated day after day for months on end.  That is not disrespectful at all.  None of us should be practicing medicine of any sort, even the brain kind.


b. however is normal folks feeling like the internet people are mean and cruel and horrible. Guess what...'discussions are about ideas, and if your idea, sucks, is against Orthodoxy belief and practice, or just is misguided, expect that more than one person will call you on it.  That doesn't mean they are teaming up, it just means that different people around the world log in at different times...see such a post, and want to add their spin on things. Nature of the Forum based beast that discussions go on longer than they would in person.

Yes, we can all be more Christ-like in all our encounters, no doubt about that, and we should strive to that, but pointing out and discussing things is not bullying.

Offline genesisone

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Re: Farewell OC.net
« Reply #86 on: June 23, 2014, 11:10:03 AM »
Yes, some of our forum's biggest bullies are actually those who cry the most about being bullied. For them, the bully card is an insidious tactic to try to draw public sympathy and sway public opinion in favor of what they believe should be the forum's modus operandi. Some people, whether it be because they always have bees in their bonnets/hornets in their hats, or they're immature, or they're bitter about their past experiences in the Church, love to say things that are not based on any facts at all. They're alarmists and crusaders. They love to build up straw men and conspiracy theories just so they can have fun knocking them down. And when they're called on their BS, they cry, "Stop bullying me!" They criticize others and their points of view to the point of hostility and bullying, yet they can't endure even a fraction of the scrutiny they dole out to others.

How true this is. And not just on this or any other forum. It's one of the reasons I have little use for all of the anti-bullying programs that are out there. I saw plenty of them during my years of teaching. The biggest bullies are those who know how to pick out the smallest points and play them to their advantage. Anti-bullying programs simply make it easy for the bullies to know what to look for. IMO, it would be far better to teach children (and adults where necessary) to develop a healthy view of themselves and learn to be appropriately assertive towards those who would be bullies.

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Farewell OC.net
« Reply #87 on: June 23, 2014, 11:10:14 AM »
Guys! They're not intercoursing. It's just an unfortunate angle.

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Offline vamrat

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Re: Farewell OC.net
« Reply #89 on: June 23, 2014, 11:37:23 AM »
I'm sorry, but that's an ugly frakking cat.
Das ist des Jägers Ehrenschild, daß er beschützt und hegt sein Wild, weidmännisch jagt, wie sich’s gehört, den Schöpfer im Geschöpfe ehrt.