Author Topic: I think I'm losing my faith all together.  (Read 9079 times)

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Raylight

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I think I'm losing my faith all together.
« on: June 19, 2014, 04:23:30 PM »
I'm kind in state of shock. I feel that I want to cry, I feel guilty, I feel sad, I feel disconnected with the people around me.

Majority of people here know about my struggle with Churches, which the least you can call it is so crazy experience. Not knowing what or who to believe, who is right and who is wrong, who is Christian and who is " heretic ".

And all that was added to the recent conversation about LGBT issues, also I read so much about the Anglican Church and I come across news where the head of the Anglican Church saying that if that Church accepted same-sex marriage, Anglicans in Africa will be killed, and it already happened with more than 350 person were killed in Africa as people thought that they will turn them into homosexuals! O the humanity! Then I read about what some Christians do to Muslims in Central Africa. Then I come across the Child Sex Abuse with the Catholic Church, I've always heard about it, but never had the real chance to look it up and see what it is really about, and turns that what supposed to be " vicar of Christ " those " Holy men " who we kiss their hands, are the ones who hide the pedophiles, they take them from this city to that city, knowing that they WILL hurt other kids! How could such thing happen in what supposed to be the house of the Lord ?! How ?! And then to take away their shame, they come with the most disgusting excuse, saying that those priests were gays!! And of course let us not forget the verse where they say " Oh well, it is the anti-Catholic media ". Why don't you man it up and just admit that you are the most corrupted institution on the face of the Earth and in mankind history. See, I can't even hide my anger and hate toward the Catholic Church, which now makes me anti-Catholic. And that DOES NOT MAKE ANY SENSE. I just was proud and happy to join this Church few days ago!!!!!

What is the difference between those Christians who kill Muslims and Gays in Africa, and ISIS people in Iraq who are killing innocent people today  ? I don't see difference whatsoever.

I don't know where I will go from here, but I had to let it out, I had to just say it. Maybe I will feel better and start think rationally, but what I know now, is that I don't think I have that faith that I had. And that is killing me, I feel so so guilty, I'm on the edge of bursting into tears.

I don't know how I really got to here, I was fine just few days ago. But from nowhere, I just lost any interest in it all. And now I'm getting filled with are negative views and feelings about Christianity. I'm even googling anything bad that Christians did, I search for anything that will show me the bad Christians, and I know it is unfair to do that, but I just want to do it, to see what is the other side of Christianity is like. And it is not pretty AT ALL. And wonder if that is the real Christianity ? It is killing gays, women should shut up inside the Church. Hating those who differ than us, And accusing each other of heresy, and killing each other over it.

I know many here told me that people are sinners, but still, aren't we supposed to be guided by the Holy Spirit ?

I'm sorry guys, I'm just all over the place today.

Please forgive my rudeness.

Can please somebody help me ? Can somebody prove what I said above to be wrong ? I don't want to stop being Christian, but I want to know that Christians and Christianity is not what was said above is about.

« Last Edit: June 19, 2014, 04:26:05 PM by Raylight »

Offline Punch

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Re: I think I'm losing my faith all together.
« Reply #1 on: June 19, 2014, 04:29:32 PM »
It becomes a lot easier when you realize that not everything in a garage is a car, and not all cars get to stay in a garage.  No Christian does the things that you wrote about.  Not everyone that says they are Christian really are.  You will know them by their fruits, not their words.
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: I think I'm losing my faith all together.
« Reply #2 on: June 19, 2014, 04:40:31 PM »
I'm kind in state of shock. I feel that I want to cry, I feel guilty, I feel sad, I feel disconnected with the people around me.

Majority of people here know about my struggle with Churches, which the least you can call it is so crazy experience. Not knowing what or who to believe, who is right and who is wrong, who is Christian and who is " heretic ".

It's been that way for 2000 years. There have always been 'orthodox' and 'heretics' in the history of the Church.

Quote

And all that was added to the recent conversation about LGBT issues, also I read so much about the Anglican Church and I come across news where the head of the Anglican Church saying that if that Church accepted same-sex marriage, Anglicans in Africa will be killed, and it already happened with more than 350 person were killed in Africa as people thought that they will turn them into homosexuals! O the humanity! Then I read about what some Christians do to Muslims in Central Africa. Then I come across the Child Sex Abuse with the Catholic Church, I've always heard about it, but never had the real chance to look it up and see what it is really about, and turns that what supposed to be " vicar of Christ " those " Holy men " who we kiss their hands, are the ones who hide the pedophiles, they take them from this city to that city, knowing that they WILL hurt other kids! How could such thing happen in what supposed to be the house of the Lord ?! How ?! And then to take away their shame, they come with the most disgusting excuse, saying that those priests were gays!! And of course let us not forget the verse where they say " Oh well, it is the anti-Catholic media ". Why don't you man it up and just admit that you are the most corrupted institution on the face of the Earth and in mankind history. See, I can't even hide my anger and hate toward the Catholic Church, which now makes me anti-Catholic. And that DOES NOT MAKE ANY SENSE. I just was proud and happy to join this Church few days ago!!!!!

What is the difference between those Christians who kill Muslims and Gays in Africa, and ISIS people in Iraq who are killing innocent people today  ? I don't see difference whatsoever.

There isn't a difference.

Quote

I don't know where I will go from here, but I had to let it out, I had to just say it. Maybe I will feel better and start think rationally, but what I know now, is that I don't think I have that faith that I had. And that is killing me, I feel so so guilty, I'm on the edge of bursting into tears.

I don't know how I really got to here, I was fine just few days ago. But from nowhere, I just lost any interest in it all. And now I'm getting filled with are negative views and feelings about Christianity. I'm even googling anything bad that Christians did, I search for anything that will show me the bad Christians, and I know it is unfair to do that, but I just want to do it, to see what is the other side of Christianity is like. And it is not pretty AT ALL. And wonder if that is the real Christianity ? It is killing gays, women should shut up inside the Church. Hating those who differ than us, And accusing each other of heresy, and killing each other over it.

I know many here told me that people are sinners, but still, aren't we supposed to be guided by the Holy Spirit ?

I'm sorry guys, I'm just all over the place today.

Please forgive my rudeness.

Can please somebody help me ? Can somebody prove what I said above to be wrong ? I don't want to stop being Christian, but I want to know that Christians and Christianity is not what was said above is about.

Because Jesus Christ and the testimony of the Saints says differently.

"Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets."  (Matthew 22:37-40)

Violence is then, a heresy itself. Being 'guided by the Holy Spirit' is just a claim, only fruit can bear that claim out.
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Offline WPM

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Re: I think I'm losing my faith all together.
« Reply #3 on: June 19, 2014, 04:49:28 PM »
He appears to be going through a certain process on the journey.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2014, 04:50:40 PM by WPM »

Offline Gkterra

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Re: I think I'm losing my faith all together.
« Reply #4 on: June 19, 2014, 05:05:53 PM »
Not everyone who has eyes to see, will see, not everyone who has ears to hear, will hear.
there have always been those that will twist Christ's testimony to their own design. you will know them by their fruits.
and imo those who are the loudest and most vocal tend to be the furthest from the truth.

Be patient and pray Raylight, I would also recommend slowing down and living your faith.
wanting to absorb as much information as you can, can work for you, as well as against you, if you lack the proper Spiritual guidance.

I will be praying for you Raylight.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2014, 05:06:50 PM by Gkterra »
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Offline Sinful Hypocrite

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Re: I think I'm losing my faith all together.
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2014, 05:17:44 PM »
There is nothing wrong with your faith IMHO. Just believe that you have what you need, and thank God for it.
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Offline Avdima

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Re: I think I'm losing my faith all together.
« Reply #6 on: June 19, 2014, 06:00:19 PM »
I do not belong to any Church or any other religion,  but I will say do not put your faith in any church or man but put your faith in Christ.

I am kind of in the same boat as you, so far as much I have yet to find a Church that lives and breathes what Jesus Christ preached, the Orthodox church comes closest so far but I have yet to be convinced. 

Raylight

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Re: I think I'm losing my faith all together.
« Reply #7 on: June 19, 2014, 09:34:34 PM »
Thanks to each one of you.

I feel that I had to let it out and say what was killing my mind. And turned out to be right, I felt much better. I then talked to someone and I realized apparently what happened is confusing caused by the amount of information I got in the last few weeks and even months.

I need to calm down these days, stay away from theology topics, try to get busy on other topic while I try to restore my relationship with God.

I don't know what exactly to call what happened to me today, but it was sudden collapse of faith or what appeared to be collapse of faith.

So, I have to take it easy.

I thank each one of you for comments :)

« Last Edit: June 19, 2014, 09:37:56 PM by Raylight »

Offline KostaC

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Re: I think I'm losing my faith all together.
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2014, 09:35:27 PM »
Dear Sir,

You're upset right now, I get it; I feel comfortable saying that everyone here has gone through exactly the same crisis of faith that you too are going through. Have you ever read this article, by any chance? http://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2014/04/the-dangers-of-internet-orthodoxy It's written by a friend of mine; Ivan is a very wise man (he was the one that finally took me to our city's only Western Orthodox church, and he helped me establish good relations there with all the fantastic people, but that's beside the point). That the article is aimed at an Orthodox audience is no matter; cross out "Orthodox" and put it "Catholic/Christian/Evangelical/Anglican/Whatever denomination you are at this point." I think for a time, it's time to put down the computer/iPad/iPhone and begin the process of putting your mind at ease. You're clearly upset; why just yesterday I saw that you wrote that you were so angry when you thought a Catholic poster made a joke about going on Crusade against modernist hymnographers that you felt physically bothered by it and needed something cold to drink to cool down. You can't let people on the Internet you don't know and events happening across the world outside of your control weigh on you that heavily. It's just not healthy. Maybe in the confines of your room locked away one day, in your own mind, you own soul, you can find an answer. In our modern day it's not easy; I just finally said enough to my hectic schedule and picked up the Bible for the first time in a long time, and it was wonderful. In your Church's tradition there is something called Ignatian Discernment; have you heard of it? If you haven't, I recommend it. These are not easy questions that you're asking, but there are answers. I just don't think you're looking in the right place.

I hope that Ivan doesn't mind, but I'm going to show you what he's written to me when I wrote him a barely-coherent message about how I was afraid for the Church and that I didn't know what to do. A lot of this will apply to you and your quandaries and to all the emotions that you're currently feeling.

"Did you see this thing I wrote? http://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2014/04/the-dangers-of-internet-orthodoxy I do stand by it. The internet lacks all the recourse to interpersonal love and mercy that makes us human, and that makes us Christian. Everything is not fine. That is self-evident. But the Church is the Church, and this isn’t the first time in history that it’s witnessed pettiness and scandalous behavior in its leadership. That is part of entrusting guardianship of Christ’s body to sinful men who have the free will to ignore or neglect the Gospel, like Adam in the Garden. But we do nothing useful by either complaining about how everything is collapsing, or by excusing ourselves from the mess entirely. If you want the Church to be a humbler, more Spirit-filled place, persist within it and do all that you can to live the Gospel. That does not mean turning a blind eye to the garbage that exists in the Church, it means being a responsible steward of your membership in Christ’s Body. The Church is like the Ark: it’s full of wild animals and it smells like ****. But it’s also where God is constantly working to transform evil intentions into acts of love, reflecting His own transcendent love. The internet is not where that takes place. One’s own imperfect, uncertain, prayerful vocation is."

All in all, I think it's good that your passions are ignited for your Church, and that you're worried for it. If you didn't feel much about the events unfolding and chose to ignore them, then I'd say that there wasn't something quite right about you. Tonight, I will pray for you, that your nous is brushed off and is illuminated with God's love. I only that you pray for me, a humble sinner, who needs just as much help as you do. Godbless, friend.

Profanity removed

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« Last Edit: June 20, 2014, 12:27:15 AM by minasoliman »

Raylight

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Re: I think I'm losing my faith all together.
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2014, 09:42:53 PM »
Dear Sir,

You're upset right now, I get it; I feel comfortable saying that everyone here has gone through exactly the same crisis of faith that you too are going through. Have you ever read this article, by any chance? http://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2014/04/the-dangers-of-internet-orthodoxy It's written by a friend of mine; Ivan is a very wise man (he was the one that finally took me to our city's only Western Orthodox church, and he helped me establish good relations there with all the good people, but that's beside the point). That the article is aimed at an Orthodox audience is no matter; cross out "Orthodox" and put it "Catholic/Christian/Evangelical/Anglican/Whatever denomination you are at this point." I think for a time, it's time to put down the computer/iPad/iPhone and begin the process of putting your mind at ease. You're clearly upset; why just yesterday I saw that you wrote that you were so angry when you thought a Catholic poster made a joke about going on Crusade against modernist hymnographers that you felt physically bothered by it and needed something cold to drink to cool down. You can't let people on the Internet you don't know and events happening across the world outside of your control weigh on you that heavily. It's just not healthy. Maybe in the confines of your room locked away one day, in your own mind, you own soul, you can find an answer. In our modern day it's not easy; I just finally said enough to my hectic schedule and picked up the Bible for the first time in a long time, and it was wonderful. In your Church's tradition there is something called Ignatian Discernment; have you heard of it? If you haven't, I recommend it. These are not easy questions that you're asking, but there are answers. I just don't think you're looking in the right place.

I hope that Ivan doesn't mind, but I'm going to show you what he's written to me when I wrote him a barely-coherent message about how I was afraid for the Church and that I didn't know what to do. A lot of this will apply to you and your quandaries and to all the emotions that you're currently feeling.

"Did you see this thing I wrote? http://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2014/04/the-dangers-of-internet-orthodoxy I do stand by it. The internet lacks all the recourse to interpersonal love and mercy that makes us human, and that makes us Christian. Everything is not fine. That is self-evident. But the Church is the Church, and this isn’t the first time in history that it’s witnessed pettiness and scandalous behavior in its leadership. That is part of entrusting guardianship of Christ’s body to sinful men who have the free will to ignore or neglect the Gospel, like Adam in the Garden. But we do nothing useful by either complaining about how everything is collapsing, or by excusing ourselves from the mess entirely. If you want the Church to be a humbler, more Spirit-filled place, persist within it and do all that you can to live the Gospel. That does not mean turning a blind eye to the garbage that exists in the Church, it means being a responsible steward of your membership in Christ’s Body. The Church is like the Ark: it’s full of wild animals and it smells like ****. But it’s also where God is constantly working to transform evil intentions into acts of love, reflecting His own transcendent love. The internet is not where that takes place. One’s own imperfect, uncertain, prayerful vocation is."

All in all, I think it's good that your passions are ignited for your Church, and that you're worried for it. If you didn't feel much about the events unfolding and chose to ignore them, then I'd say that there wasn't something quite right about you. Tonight, I will pray for you, that your nous is brushed off and is illuminated with God's love. I only that you pray for me, a humble sinner, who needs just as much help as you do. Godbless, friend.

Wow!! That is really helping.  I was getting very upset over what people say here and there. It is unhealthy and I think it lead it to affect my faith and my thinking.

Thank you KostaC, and please pray for me like you promised :)

Profanity removed
--Mina
« Last Edit: June 20, 2014, 12:07:41 AM by minasoliman »

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: I think I'm losing my faith all together.
« Reply #10 on: June 19, 2014, 09:55:19 PM »
Thanks to each one of you.

I feel that I had to let it out and say what was killing my mind. And turned out to be right, I felt much better. I then talked to someone and I realized apparently what happened is confusing caused by the amount of information I got in the last few weeks and even months.

I need to calm down these days, stay away from theology topics, try to get busy on other topic while I try to restore my relationship with God.

I don't know what exactly to call what happened to me today, but it was sudden collapse of faith or what appeared to be collapse of faith.

So, I have to take it easy.

I thank each one of you for comments :)



Try your best.
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Offline yeshuaisiam

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Re: I think I'm losing my faith all together.
« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2014, 11:11:01 PM »
Know them by their fruits... It's wise.  Faith is something you can see in people often by their actions.

A faithful church will be the bride of Christ, submitted to her husband.
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Offline Justin Kolodziej

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Re: I think I'm losing my faith all together.
« Reply #12 on: June 19, 2014, 11:41:59 PM »
Well...

I do retract my comments about wanting to burn modernist "hymnographers" at the stake.

However, I will maintain that they are as dangerous to the faith as any heretics in history and there is no reason to sing their "hymns" in Church. If Orthodox and Byzantines can do their liturgies in English and keep the ancient hymns, we could too. The bishops need to expel such filth from the Church or be deposed for neglecting their duties.

And for the record the priests who really did abuse people should have been immediately defrocked and excommunicated, and the bishops who neglected their duty by merely moving them around should be deposed and excommunicated as well.
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Offline Sam G

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Re: I think I'm losing my faith all together.
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2014, 12:15:18 AM »
Pray. Christ is true and unchanging no matter what vile acts people who claim to follow him commit.  You can get so caught up in the "church wars" that you forget that your ultimate focus is on Christ no matter what.  I'm not advocating a "no Church, personal relationship with Jesus" kinda thing, but I think in your search for the True Church you must never loose sight of your ultimate goal.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2014, 12:23:20 AM by Sam G »
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Re: I think I'm losing my faith all together.
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2014, 12:16:54 AM »
In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, one God.  Amen. 

Offline Asteriktos

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Re: I think I'm losing my faith all together.
« Reply #15 on: June 20, 2014, 12:35:58 AM »
Raylight, it's hard to know someone through the internet (or in real life for that matter), especially if it's only been a short time. I have formed an opinion of you while you've posted here though (a good one!  :) ). Like me you do seem to have problems settling, or finding reasons to change your mind. That's not a great thing to go through, but it's certainly not a sin, so I don't think you should let it cause you much anxiety... I'd say just try to endure the bumpy ride. Another thing I have thought about you is that you are seeking after answers, seeking the truth. If that is so, if that is an anchor for you, or something that you can hold on to regardless of whatever turmoil is going on, then mark that as a victory and gift from God, and don't forget it. "Seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened to you..." How many philosophies and religions did some of the early Fathers go through before they finally settled? I'm not saying this is ideal, or even good, but for some it is simply how it is for a while. Seek, and trust in God to guide you. Maybe to you it looks like your path is zig-zagging all over the place, or going in circles. But trust that God will bring you to where you should be.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2014, 12:37:24 AM by Justin Kissel »
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Offline WPM

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Re: I think I'm losing my faith all together.
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2014, 01:23:05 AM »
FYI {- -}

It helped me to examine my reasons for being Orthodox. And staying the course (Staying put in one place and not transmigrating around everywhere) ...

Offline Nicene

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Re: I think I'm losing my faith all together.
« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2014, 02:24:12 AM »
So your thinking of giving up on Christianity because of the sins of man? Who is the example? Christ or all men? We do judge the church by Judas or Peter? Think about a wider perspective, men will fail you, always but Jesus will never fail you or them. They need Jesus as well, just as much as you do.
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Offline Joha

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Re: I think I'm losing my faith all together.
« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2014, 03:55:08 AM »
Raylight, I will keep praying for you. As long as it will take you to settle. It took me about, erm... 12 years? But that because I'm pigheaded... I just wouldn't listen to Christ... dumb me.

Anyway, for me the solution did lay in a very simple but ow so powerful fact:

Quote from: Jesus Christ son of God Almighty
"I am the Way, the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father but through Me."

No force, no might, no authority, no church, no sinner, can say the same.

Having said that: describing what happened is simple, you did the same as the apostle Peter did, and many after him, when he looked at the waves and started sinking into them.

This makes everything so much simpler: He looked at Christ... and he was saved...

No matter the turmoil, He looked at Christ and Christ saved him.

Got to remind myself this daily for I am weak. But Christ gives me strength.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ
Psalm 57:2 I will cry out to God Most High, To God who performs all things for me.
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Raylight

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Re: I think I'm losing my faith all together.
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2014, 12:56:36 PM »
Thank you all for your help and support.

I try to find words to thank each one of you but I can't find any, honestly, because when I wrote the thread I expected some may be harsh on me and some may attack me, but none of that happened, all what I found here is understanding and love. Thank you all :)

I'm getting much better today.  :)

Offline minasoliman

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Re: I think I'm losing my faith all together.
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2014, 12:58:18 PM »
Thank you all for your help and support.

I try to find words to thank each one of you but I can't find any, honestly, because when I wrote the thread I expected some may be harsh on me and some may attack me, but none of that happened, all what I found here is understanding and love. Thank you all :)

I'm getting much better today.  :)

Glory to God!  :)
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Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: I think I'm losing my faith all together.
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2014, 01:00:45 PM »
Start with a mustard seed of faith...

and just work on keeping that......


Its so very easy to get bogged down in the 'who is right, wrong, double wrong, extra right with a side of fries' type logic arguments....that it kills that seed.

Never let the knowledge gaining part of the process kill the -believe and you shall be saved- part of it....
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Re: I think I'm losing my faith all together.
« Reply #22 on: June 20, 2014, 01:36:59 PM »
What you need is a relationship with God and his people, and where you are looking for it is apologetics online. That's as though one could immerse oneself in angry sophistical tracts from warring OB/GYN traditions when one were hoping for a girlfriend. It's the wrong place to look, Ray, and, yes, it will turn you off.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

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Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline KostaC

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Re: I think I'm losing my faith all together.
« Reply #23 on: June 20, 2014, 01:53:38 PM »
What you need is a relationship with God and his people, and where you are looking for it is apologetics online. That's as though one could immerse oneself in angry sophistical tracts from warring OB/GYN traditions when one were hoping for a girlfriend. It's the wrong place to look, Ray, and, yes, it will turn you off.

Best. Analogy. Ever.

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: I think I'm losing my faith all together.
« Reply #24 on: June 20, 2014, 01:59:26 PM »
There are a lot of really bad people who call themselves Christians.  The take away on that is not that Christianity is bad, but that people will misuse anything, even the worship of God for their own personal gain.  There are also many very admirable people who are Christians as well. Look to those who have completed the course faithfully before us, may God help you in your journey.  :)
God bless!

Offline Fabio Leite

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Re: I think I'm losing my faith all together.
« Reply #25 on: June 20, 2014, 04:19:58 PM »


There are people climbing the ladder and people falling from it. You keep your eyes on the one climbing and pray for the ones falling. If you happen to fall yourself, just start again. The forgiveness you cultivate for those you saw falling while you were well will save you when you fall.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2014, 04:20:45 PM by Fabio Leite »
Many Energies, 3 Persons, 2 Natures, 1 God, 1 Church, 1 Baptism, and 1 Cup. The Son begotten only from the Father, the Spirit proceeding only from the Father, Each glorifying the Other. The Son sends the Spirit, the Spirit Reveals the Son, the Father is seen in the Son. The Spirit spoke through the Prophets and Fathers and does so even today.

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Re: I think I'm losing my faith all together.
« Reply #26 on: June 20, 2014, 04:33:45 PM »


There are people climbing the ladder and people falling from it. You keep your eyes on the one climbing and pray for the ones falling. If you happen to fall yourself, just start again. The forgiveness you cultivate for those you saw falling while you were well will save you when you fall.

Amen  :)


Start with a mustard seed of faith...

and just work on keeping that......


Its so very easy to get bogged down in the 'who is right, wrong, double wrong, extra right with a side of fries' type logic arguments....that it kills that seed.

Never let the knowledge gaining part of the process kill the -believe and you shall be saved- part of it....

Nice and interesting way to put it. Thank you :)



What you need is a relationship with God and his people, and where you are looking for it is apologetics online. That's as though one could immerse oneself in angry sophistical tracts from warring OB/GYN traditions when one were hoping for a girlfriend. It's the wrong place to look, Ray, and, yes, it will turn you off.

It is the wrong place indeed. I was looking in the wrong place. and as you said, it turned me off. What happened yesterday was indescribable, the feelings, the thoughts and everything. I will never make the same mistake again, never ever.

I was trying so hard to get to closer to God by using my own limited human abilities, and I fell down.


There are a lot of really bad people who call themselves Christians.  The take away on that is not that Christianity is bad, but that people will misuse anything, even the worship of God for their own personal gain.  There are also many very admirable people who are Christians as well. Look to those who have completed the course faithfully before us, may God help you in your journey.  :)

Thank you :)

I know there are plenty of good Christians in the world, by yesterday I was just looking for the bad, something in me told me to just focus on them, maybe to feel better, maybe to give myself an excuse to leave the faith, but even with that, I couldn't but feel like I'm dying.

I have to say it again that I appreciate each one of you guys, each member. Thank you so much.

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Re: I think I'm losing my faith all together.
« Reply #27 on: June 20, 2014, 04:41:32 PM »
Know that I am praying for you.

Listen to holy chants, sing holy hymns, and do not forget to pray unceasingly.
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

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Re: I think I'm losing my faith all together.
« Reply #28 on: June 20, 2014, 10:12:06 PM »
Know that I am praying for you.

Listen to holy chants, sing holy hymns, and do not forget to pray unceasingly.

Thank you :)

I'm trying to be like " mere-Christian " and focus on Jesus Christ and listen to different hymns and pray and pray and pray. Until God may take my hand to continue the journey :)

Offline Nikolaostheservant

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Re: I think I'm losing my faith all together.
« Reply #29 on: June 20, 2014, 11:10:36 PM »
I'm kind in state of shock. I feel that I want to cry, I feel guilty, I feel sad, I feel disconnected with the people around me.

Majority of people here know about my struggle with Churches, which the least you can call it is so crazy experience. Not knowing what or who to believe, who is right and who is wrong, who is Christian and who is " heretic ".

And all that was added to the recent conversation about LGBT issues, also I read so much about the Anglican Church and I come across news where the head of the Anglican Church saying that if that Church accepted same-sex marriage, Anglicans in Africa will be killed, and it already happened with more than 350 person were killed in Africa as people thought that they will turn them into homosexuals! O the humanity! Then I read about what some Christians do to Muslims in Central Africa. Then I come across the Child Sex Abuse with the Catholic Church, I've always heard about it, but never had the real chance to look it up and see what it is really about, and turns that what supposed to be " vicar of Christ " those " Holy men " who we kiss their hands, are the ones who hide the pedophiles, they take them from this city to that city, knowing that they WILL hurt other kids! How could such thing happen in what supposed to be the house of the Lord ?! How ?! And then to take away their shame, they come with the most disgusting excuse, saying that those priests were gays!! And of course let us not forget the verse where they say " Oh well, it is the anti-Catholic media ". Why don't you man it up and just admit that you are the most corrupted institution on the face of the Earth and in mankind history. See, I can't even hide my anger and hate toward the Catholic Church, which now makes me anti-Catholic. And that DOES NOT MAKE ANY SENSE. I just was proud and happy to join this Church few days ago!!!!!

What is the difference between those Christians who kill Muslims and Gays in Africa, and ISIS people in Iraq who are killing innocent people today  ? I don't see difference whatsoever.

I don't know where I will go from here, but I had to let it out, I had to just say it. Maybe I will feel better and start think rationally, but what I know now, is that I don't think I have that faith that I had. And that is killing me, I feel so so guilty, I'm on the edge of bursting into tears.

I don't know how I really got to here, I was fine just few days ago. But from nowhere, I just lost any interest in it all. And now I'm getting filled with are negative views and feelings about Christianity. I'm even googling anything bad that Christians did, I search for anything that will show me the bad Christians, and I know it is unfair to do that, but I just want to do it, to see what is the other side of Christianity is like. And it is not pretty AT ALL. And wonder if that is the real Christianity ? It is killing gays, women should shut up inside the Church. Hating those who differ than us, And accusing each other of heresy, and killing each other over it.

I know many here told me that people are sinners, but still, aren't we supposed to be guided by the Holy Spirit ?

I'm sorry guys, I'm just all over the place today.

Please forgive my rudeness.

Can please somebody help me ? Can somebody prove what I said above to be wrong ? I don't want to stop being Christian, but I want to know that Christians and Christianity is not what was said above is about.



There is such a thing as "TMI", and thats what you are suffering from.

Stop researching and comparing, especially on the internet.

That little old man/hermit living in romania in a hut, waking up and going to sleep with God on his lips, dosent know of, nor cares of all this information that you have quoated above. He just knows God is good and Lord Jesus Christ have mercy on me a sinner.

All you have said are mans deeds...NOT God! How can you judge God by man's actions?

Offline Hamartolos

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Re: I think I'm losing my faith all together.
« Reply #30 on: June 21, 2014, 12:34:19 AM »
You know, Ray, I totally understand where you are coming from.  Truth is, I avoid the 'community' as much as I can.  Many are there for themselves and are judgmental, rude, hostile etc.  It took me a long time to realize that I am far better off to attend services and leave.  Now, of course not all are like that but it seems you find personalities more comfortable with being openly hypocritical in churches than you do in the workplace or social gatherings.  At least this is true in my experience in both the RCC and Orthodox Church.

Anyway, I am much happier NOT being involved and simply attending Liturgy and contributing my cash instead of my 'talents'.  Once you get involved it seems you've entered into a strange political realm.  In any case, it's affected my faith in the past as well as these are supposed to be the people you lean on as you are all believers.  You expect the world to hate you for your faith but not your fellow Christians.  I know athiests who have been kinder to me than my fellow 'Christians'.

Like Punch said, just because they call themselves "Christian" doesn't mean they are.  In any case, avoiding the BS that sometimes (usually) comes along with being involved has saved my faith.

Offline hecma925

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Re: I think I'm losing my faith all together.
« Reply #31 on: June 21, 2014, 03:04:07 AM »
There is such a thing as "TMI", and thats what you are suffering from.

Stop researching and comparing, especially on the internet.

That little old man/hermit living in romania in a hut, waking up and going to sleep with God on his lips, dosent know of, nor cares of all this information that you have quoated above. He just knows God is good and Lord Jesus Christ have mercy on me a sinner.

All you have said are mans deeds...NOT God! How can you judge God by man's actions?
+1
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Offline Alexander_Kuzmin

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Do not lose your faith
« Reply #32 on: June 21, 2014, 03:35:56 AM »
I think you look too much at people. Chrisitanity is not about them, but about you, and God, and the Saints.
It helps to read about some saint, and also to pray to they (in your own words, and they will help).

For example here is a story for you from Celia Yentzen, who had recently experienced a miraculous healing through Fr. Seraphim Roses's intercessions.
+++

During the summer of 1996, when I was twenty-four years old, I suffered a cumulative trauma back injury from sports, from which I never fully recovered. I was never able to run again, and had pain and stiffness when either walking or sitting for more than twenty to thirty minutes. Later that year, X rays confirmed some mild degenerative changes that were beginning to occur in my lower spine, despite how young I was. My father has Degenerative Disk Disease (DDD) of the lower spine. After many years without relief from my pain, DDD was my presumed fate as well, although at such an early stage there was no real way to confirm a diagnosis. In the past eight years, 1 have tried many types of treatments, from "TENS" electric stimulation treatments to physical therapy, prescription medications, ointments, and various exercise programs. None of these attempts worked for me. I went to sleep each night in pain.

For eight years, my pain had never relented; I had grown accustomed to living with it daily. I had to give up the running that I loved so much, buc I've always been grateful to be otherwise healthy and able to walk without too much hindrance, despite the presence of pain.

In July 2004, my husband David and I made a pilgrimage to the St. Herman of Alaska Monastery in Platina, California. While there, we went to Fr. Seraphim Rose's grave site to pray. At one point during our silent prayers, David put his hands on my back and continued to pray. I did not know what he was praying for, but knowing David, I guessed that he might be praying for my back. (I have always been embarrassed at how much I allowed back pain co interfere in David's and my life, and had always hoped that I would be better at daily tasks without him knowing that I was in pain.) Upon thinking that David might be praying for relief of my pain, I said a very small prayer; "Fr. Seraphim, I know my husband loves me very much to pray for my relief, but truly, I do nor deserve to have such a lofty request answered. I'm fat, far too selfish."

David later told me, "What I asked Fr. Seraphim for was his intercessions not necessarily for a total cure, but that you would have ar least a reduction of your chronic pain so that you could better manage daily life."

The next morning, July 8/21, as we were preparing to leave the monastery, I noticed that 1 had an unusually easy time carrying my bag uphill from the guest house. In the days that followed, I began to notice that I was consistently waking up each morning with no trace of pain, and that pain would not develop during the day, no matter how strenuous the day's tasks were. Since becoming Orthodox, I had never consistently been able to do a full bow (metanoia) without bending my knees and bracing my back by pushing my hand against my leg. A few days aftet we left the monastery, while saying our morning prayers, when going to do a series of metanoias, 1 touched the ground with my knees straight with complete ease and no pain for the first time! In shock at realizing what I had just done, I immediately looked at my husband with complete surprise! David was overjoyed. We knew then that David's prayers had indeed been answered. We sang prayers of Thanksgiving to Fr. Seraphim for his intercessions, and sang an Akathist of Thanksgiving to God.

One day, a couple of weeks later, in response to the joy I was be ginning to feel at this new life, I decided to go running, as I had so loved to do before I was hurt. I walked three miles, and sprinted for half a mile! I felt no pain, and awoke the next day with no pain. I haven't experienced such freedom of movement in so many years!!

Even as I write this, I am still with no pain; I ran a mile a few days ago. In the six weeks since I left the monastery, I have been pain-free, except for only a very brief moment as a consequence of carrying a nearly thirty-pound backpack of groceries for a mile! But as David reminded me, he didn't ask for a total cure, only that I would receive relief so that I could live normal daily life without hindrance; and that is exactly what I have received!

Glory to God for all things, and endless thanks to Blessed Father Seraphim for his miraculous intercessions!

Offline xariskai

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Re: I think I'm losing my faith all together.
« Reply #33 on: June 21, 2014, 03:41:50 AM »
I'm kind in state of shock. I feel that I want to cry, I feel guilty, I feel sad, I feel disconnected with the people around me.

Majority of people here know about my struggle with Churches, which the least you can call it is so crazy experience. Not knowing what or who to believe, who is right and who is wrong, who is Christian and who is " heretic ".

And all that was added to the recent conversation about LGBT issues, also I read so much about the Anglican Church and I come across news where the head of the Anglican Church saying that if that Church accepted same-sex marriage, Anglicans in Africa will be killed, and it already happened with more than 350 person were killed in Africa as people thought that they will turn them into homosexuals! O the humanity! Then I read about what some Christians do to Muslims in Central Africa. Then I come across the Child Sex Abuse with the Catholic Church, I've always heard about it, but never had the real chance to look it up and see what it is really about, and turns that what supposed to be " vicar of Christ " those " Holy men " who we kiss their hands, are the ones who hide the pedophiles, they take them from this city to that city, knowing that they WILL hurt other kids! How could such thing happen in what supposed to be the house of the Lord ?! How ?! And then to take away their shame, they come with the most disgusting excuse, saying that those priests were gays!! And of course let us not forget the verse where they say " Oh well, it is the anti-Catholic media ". Why don't you man it up and just admit that you are the most corrupted institution on the face of the Earth and in mankind history. See, I can't even hide my anger and hate toward the Catholic Church, which now makes me anti-Catholic. And that DOES NOT MAKE ANY SENSE. I just was proud and happy to join this Church few days ago!!!!!

What is the difference between those Christians who kill Muslims and Gays in Africa, and ISIS people in Iraq who are killing innocent people today  ? I don't see difference whatsoever.

I don't know where I will go from here, but I had to let it out, I had to just say it. Maybe I will feel better and start think rationally, but what I know now, is that I don't think I have that faith that I had. And that is killing me, I feel so so guilty, I'm on the edge of bursting into tears.

I don't know how I really got to here, I was fine just few days ago. But from nowhere, I just lost any interest in it all. And now I'm getting filled with are negative views and feelings about Christianity. I'm even googling anything bad that Christians did, I search for anything that will show me the bad Christians, and I know it is unfair to do that, but I just want to do it, to see what is the other side of Christianity is like. And it is not pretty AT ALL. And wonder if that is the real Christianity ? It is killing gays, women should shut up inside the Church. Hating those who differ than us, And accusing each other of heresy, and killing each other over it.

I know many here told me that people are sinners, but still, aren't we supposed to be guided by the Holy Spirit ?

I'm sorry guys, I'm just all over the place today.

Please forgive my rudeness.

Can please somebody help me ? Can somebody prove what I said above to be wrong ? I don't want to stop being Christian, but I want to know that Christians and Christianity is not what was said above is about.


"It is better to take refuge in the Lord than to trust in man." -Ps 118:8
« Last Edit: June 21, 2014, 03:42:59 AM by xariskai »

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: I think I'm losing my faith all together.
« Reply #34 on: June 25, 2014, 10:15:52 AM »
Know that I am praying for you.

Listen to holy chants, sing holy hymns, and do not forget to pray unceasingly.

Thank you :)

I'm trying to be like " mere-Christian " and focus on Jesus Christ and listen to different hymns and pray and pray and pray. Until God may take my hand to continue the journey :)
Something else to think about: ISTM that you're very much an "all-or-nothing" kind of guy who makes snap decisions to give yourself totally to a particular system of doctrine and belief even though you don't really know that system at all and had only started reading up on it. When you started posting on this forum, you identified yourself as Roman Catholic even though you had just started inquiring into Catholicism and hadn't even been through the RCIA program. Once you started reading up on Orthodoxy, you started to identify yourself as Orthodox even though you weren't even a catechumen. Then after only a short time you dropped the title Orthodox altogether and went back to calling yourself a Catholic. Have you even gone through the RCIA program yet? Now, as a response to being horrified and scandalized by some bad press on the Internet, you've dropped the title Catholic entirely and now call yourself just a Christian. And you've not even been on this forum for longer than the last six months.

My advice to you: Do continue to investigate. Do continue to read and to inquire into the various Christian faith traditions. Just don't be so quick to call yourself this, that, or the other thing based solely on what you read in books or online. Don't call yourself Catholic until after you've completed the RCIA program and been Confirmed a Catholic in a Catholic church. Don't call yourself Orthodox until after you've completed the inquirer's class and catechumenate and been Chrismated in a local Orthodox Church. Take the time to read, to inquire, to listen, to study. Don't make any rash decisions to jump around. There's a reason why in the early Church, the catechumenate was often as long as three years. Seek to understand the wisdom behind this and slow down.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2014, 10:38:26 AM by PeterTheAleut »
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Re: I think I'm losing my faith all together.
« Reply #35 on: June 25, 2014, 05:42:45 PM »
Know that I am praying for you.

Listen to holy chants, sing holy hymns, and do not forget to pray unceasingly.

Thank you :)

I'm trying to be like " mere-Christian " and focus on Jesus Christ and listen to different hymns and pray and pray and pray. Until God may take my hand to continue the journey :)
Something else to think about: ISTM that you're very much an "all-or-nothing" kind of guy who makes snap decisions to give yourself totally to a particular system of doctrine and belief even though you don't really know that system at all and had only started reading up on it. When you started posting on this forum, you identified yourself as Roman Catholic even though you had just started inquiring into Catholicism and hadn't even been through the RCIA program. Once you started reading up on Orthodoxy, you started to identify yourself as Orthodox even though you weren't even a catechumen. Then after only a short time you dropped the title Orthodox altogether and went back to calling yourself a Catholic. Have you even gone through the RCIA program yet? Now, as a response to being horrified and scandalized by some bad press on the Internet, you've dropped the title Catholic entirely and now call yourself just a Christian. And you've not even been on this forum for longer than the last six months.

My advice to you: Do continue to investigate. Do continue to read and to inquire into the various Christian faith traditions. Just don't be so quick to call yourself this, that, or the other thing based solely on what you read in books or online. Don't call yourself Catholic until after you've completed the RCIA program and been Confirmed a Catholic in a Catholic church. Don't call yourself Orthodox until after you've completed the inquirer's class and catechumenate and been Chrismated in a local Orthodox Church. Take the time to read, to inquire, to listen, to study. Don't make any rash decisions to jump around. There's a reason why in the early Church, the catechumenate was often as long as three years. Seek to understand the wisdom behind this and slow down.

Thank you for the advice Peter :)

I do agree that sometimes I make "snap" decisions, however, I also found there is another reason for the madness I was in, and for the going to the church and leaving it few days/weeks later. And that is I NEVER agreed with the Church teachings, whether it was Catholic or Orthodox or Conservative Protestant. I always with in odds with three of them for different reasons, I will not share them here but I imagine some of you know some of them.

I was forcing myself to just agree with what this or that Church teachings, lets take the teaching of the Catholic Church on the Pope being the Vicar of Christ. You may recall that I commented on one of your comments where you asked if I wanted to argue about the dogma of the Pope Vicar of Christ in an Orthodox forum. I recall also that I told you I believe in it and doesn't matter if you or others believe it or not. However, I really didn't believe it, I just didn't but tried to convince myself that I did and just go with it for the sake of finding a Church. two days later I left the Church because I couldn't handle being a hypocrite and pray one of the catholic prayers where I have to say that I believe in all what the Church teaching!!

The same with some of the Orthodox Church teachings and the Conservative Protestant teachings like the Anabaptist.

Some may think I'm hard headed and just don't want to change my beliefs, actually I'm not, I did change a lot of my beliefs, there are things I believe in the past now I don't, and things I didn't believe in the past, now I do. But there are things that I will simply not change my mind on, because I already know that what this or that Church is teachings is false and will not be accepted by me at any point. So why bother and try to pretend that I agree with the Church teachings just for the sake of belonging to a Church while I know that sooner or later all these disagreements will come up and will cause confusion and will lead me to leave the Church.

I found a Church where I agree with almost all of her teachings, with few disagreements here and there, however I'm allowed by the Church to disagree and make my own opinion on the issue without feel that I'm contradicting myself or risk my salvation.

But I will always take the advices here and keep them for the rest of my life, I'm not just saying this but I mean it, many advices here are not just helpful on the issue of faith, but also on other issues.

God bless you all my brothers and sisters in Christ :)


Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: I think I'm losing my faith all together.
« Reply #36 on: June 25, 2014, 05:45:25 PM »
If I can be so bold as to make another suggestion based on something I have noticed.


You seem to find and post a lot of 'news' type things involving Churches and Religion.

That sort of thing does not help determine belief, it merely shows a very negative spin on -everything-......

I would stop trying to find and read those sorts of things.....and instead focus on Christ.  Not humans and the news media's take on what Christians are or are doing.
All opinions expressed by myself are quite tragically my own, and not those of any other poster or wall hangings.

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Re: I think I'm losing my faith all together.
« Reply #37 on: June 25, 2014, 05:48:27 PM »
If I can be so bold as to make another suggestion based on something I have noticed.


You seem to find and post a lot of 'news' type things involving Churches and Religion.

That sort of thing does not help determine belief, it merely shows a very negative spin on -everything-......

I would stop trying to find and read those sorts of things.....and instead focus on Christ.  Not humans and the news media's take on what Christians are or are doing.

True. I'm lately focusing a lot about the news involving Churches. Some of them get me angry and some of them make me happy. and sure the ones that make me angry will drive me away from the Church/s involved in the story.

Thank you  :)

Offline KostaC

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Re: I think I'm losing my faith all together.
« Reply #38 on: June 25, 2014, 07:41:27 PM »
Thank you for the advice Peter :)

I do agree that sometimes I make "snap" decisions, however, I also found there is another reason for the madness I was in, and for the going to the church and leaving it few days/weeks later. And that is I NEVER agreed with the Church teachings, whether it was Catholic or Orthodox or Conservative Protestant. I always with in odds with three of them for different reasons, I will not share them here but I imagine some of you know some of them.

I was forcing myself to just agree with what this or that Church teachings, lets take the teaching of the Catholic Church on the Pope being the Vicar of Christ. You may recall that I commented on one of your comments where you asked if I wanted to argue about the dogma of the Pope Vicar of Christ in an Orthodox forum. I recall also that I told you I believe in it and doesn't matter if you or others believe it or not. However, I really didn't believe it, I just didn't but tried to convince myself that I did and just go with it for the sake of finding a Church. two days later I left the Church because I couldn't handle being a hypocrite and pray one of the catholic prayers where I have to say that I believe in all what the Church teaching!!

The same with some of the Orthodox Church teachings and the Conservative Protestant teachings like the Anabaptist.

Some may think I'm hard headed and just don't want to change my beliefs, actually I'm not, I did change a lot of my beliefs, there are things I believe in the past now I don't, and things I didn't believe in the past, now I do. But there are things that I will simply not change my mind on, because I already know that what this or that Church is teachings is false and will not be accepted by me at any point. So why bother and try to pretend that I agree with the Church teachings just for the sake of belonging to a Church while I know that sooner or later all these disagreements will come up and will cause confusion and will lead me to leave the Church.

I found a Church where I agree with almost all of her teachings, with few disagreements here and there, however I'm allowed by the Church to disagree and make my own opinion on the issue without feel that I'm contradicting myself or risk my salvation.

But I will always take the advices here and keep them for the rest of my life, I'm not just saying this but I mean it, many advices here are not just helpful on the issue of faith, but also on other issues.

God bless you all my brothers and sisters in Christ :)



Wait, so you're not Catholic anymore now? I don't get what you mean.

Raylight

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Re: I think I'm losing my faith all together.
« Reply #39 on: June 25, 2014, 08:18:07 PM »
Thank you for the advice Peter :)

I do agree that sometimes I make "snap" decisions, however, I also found there is another reason for the madness I was in, and for the going to the church and leaving it few days/weeks later. And that is I NEVER agreed with the Church teachings, whether it was Catholic or Orthodox or Conservative Protestant. I always with in odds with three of them for different reasons, I will not share them here but I imagine some of you know some of them.

I was forcing myself to just agree with what this or that Church teachings, lets take the teaching of the Catholic Church on the Pope being the Vicar of Christ. You may recall that I commented on one of your comments where you asked if I wanted to argue about the dogma of the Pope Vicar of Christ in an Orthodox forum. I recall also that I told you I believe in it and doesn't matter if you or others believe it or not. However, I really didn't believe it, I just didn't but tried to convince myself that I did and just go with it for the sake of finding a Church. two days later I left the Church because I couldn't handle being a hypocrite and pray one of the catholic prayers where I have to say that I believe in all what the Church teaching!!

The same with some of the Orthodox Church teachings and the Conservative Protestant teachings like the Anabaptist.

Some may think I'm hard headed and just don't want to change my beliefs, actually I'm not, I did change a lot of my beliefs, there are things I believe in the past now I don't, and things I didn't believe in the past, now I do. But there are things that I will simply not change my mind on, because I already know that what this or that Church is teachings is false and will not be accepted by me at any point. So why bother and try to pretend that I agree with the Church teachings just for the sake of belonging to a Church while I know that sooner or later all these disagreements will come up and will cause confusion and will lead me to leave the Church.

I found a Church where I agree with almost all of her teachings, with few disagreements here and there, however I'm allowed by the Church to disagree and make my own opinion on the issue without feel that I'm contradicting myself or risk my salvation.

But I will always take the advices here and keep them for the rest of my life, I'm not just saying this but I mean it, many advices here are not just helpful on the issue of faith, but also on other issues.

God bless you all my brothers and sisters in Christ :)



Wait, so you're not Catholic anymore now? I don't get what you mean.

No, I'm not Catholic anymore and will never never never be.

I was lying at myself when I thought I will be able to just "go with it" and accept some of the teachings of the Catholic Church that I disagree with, and pretend that I believe it while actually I know it is false.

What I meant by what you quoted above is that I believe one of the major reasons for the madness I had with the Churches, and joining one ( of course not officially ) and then leaving it few days/weeks later is due to the major odds between me and this Church, whether it was Catholic, Orthodox or Conservative Protestant. And the thing made it more hard for me to remain is I'm not allowed to disagree with the Catholic or Orthodox Church on some of her teachings. I can't say the Pope is not the vicar of Christ and remain Catholic, I can't say that God's promise to St Peter is to all Churches not the Catholic only and remain Catholic, I can't believe that the Pope is not infallible in any way and anytime and remain Catholic, I can't believe that the Catholic Church is not only church that has the authority to interpret the Bible and remain Catholic. I will never accept these claims, I tried but it didn't work and it will never work.  I also have issues with Orthodoxy but will not mention them. The same with Conservative Protestant Churches where they don't believe in Christ's presence in the Eucharist and don't believe that the Eucharist is Christ's blood and body. That salvation is ONLY by faith, that once saved always saved dogma.

I had to step up and ask myself if I will ever change my mind about these differences ? and then ask myself why am I rejecting these teachings and beliefs ? I came to conclusion that I will never accept them and for many many reasons. So no point of trying to join a Church that I don't believe in her full teachings and above that I'm not allowed to disagree with the Church without being less Catholic or less Orthodox somehow.

I found the Church that I agree with almost all of her teachings ( It was a shock to find that such Church exist ) and even the ones that I have few disagreements with, I'm allowed to and can accept them or rejected them without condemnation from the Church.

Offline KostaC

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Re: I think I'm losing my faith all together.
« Reply #40 on: June 25, 2014, 10:56:30 PM »
No, I'm not Catholic anymore and will never never never be.

I was lying at myself when I thought I will be able to just "go with it" and accept some of the teachings of the Catholic Church that I disagree with, and pretend that I believe it while actually I know it is false.

What I meant by what you quoted above is that I believe one of the major reasons for the madness I had with the Churches, and joining one ( of course not officially ) and then leaving it few days/weeks later is due to the major odds between me and this Church, whether it was Catholic, Orthodox or Conservative Protestant. And the thing made it more hard for me to remain is I'm not allowed to disagree with the Catholic or Orthodox Church on some of her teachings. I can't say the Pope is not the vicar of Christ and remain Catholic, I can't say that God's promise to St Peter is to all Churches not the Catholic only and remain Catholic, I can't believe that the Pope is not infallible in any way and anytime and remain Catholic, I can't believe that the Catholic Church is not only church that has the authority to interpret the Bible and remain Catholic. I will never accept these claims, I tried but it didn't work and it will never work.  I also have issues with Orthodoxy but will not mention them. The same with Conservative Protestant Churches where they don't believe in Christ's presence in the Eucharist and don't believe that the Eucharist is Christ's blood and body. That salvation is ONLY by faith, that once saved always saved dogma.

I had to step up and ask myself if I will ever change my mind about these differences ? and then ask myself why am I rejecting these teachings and beliefs ? I came to conclusion that I will never accept them and for many many reasons. So no point of trying to join a Church that I don't believe in her full teachings and above that I'm not allowed to disagree with the Church without being less Catholic or less Orthodox somehow.

I found the Church that I agree with almost all of her teachings ( It was a shock to find that such Church exist ) and even the ones that I have few disagreements with, I'm allowed to and can accept them or rejected them without condemnation from the Church.

May I ask, just out of personal interest, what Church would that be? Is it the Anglican Church?

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: I think I'm losing my faith all together.
« Reply #41 on: June 25, 2014, 11:01:16 PM »
I don't think I know where you're located, but have you considered the Religious Society of Friends?
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Offline KostaC

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Re: I think I'm losing my faith all together.
« Reply #42 on: June 25, 2014, 11:04:30 PM »
I don't think I know where you're located, but have you considered the Religious Society of Friends?

Ha, the Quaker Church was my next guess!

Raylight

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Re: I think I'm losing my faith all together.
« Reply #43 on: June 25, 2014, 11:21:03 PM »
No, I'm not Catholic anymore and will never never never be.

I was lying at myself when I thought I will be able to just "go with it" and accept some of the teachings of the Catholic Church that I disagree with, and pretend that I believe it while actually I know it is false.

What I meant by what you quoted above is that I believe one of the major reasons for the madness I had with the Churches, and joining one ( of course not officially ) and then leaving it few days/weeks later is due to the major odds between me and this Church, whether it was Catholic, Orthodox or Conservative Protestant. And the thing made it more hard for me to remain is I'm not allowed to disagree with the Catholic or Orthodox Church on some of her teachings. I can't say the Pope is not the vicar of Christ and remain Catholic, I can't say that God's promise to St Peter is to all Churches not the Catholic only and remain Catholic, I can't believe that the Pope is not infallible in any way and anytime and remain Catholic, I can't believe that the Catholic Church is not only church that has the authority to interpret the Bible and remain Catholic. I will never accept these claims, I tried but it didn't work and it will never work.  I also have issues with Orthodoxy but will not mention them. The same with Conservative Protestant Churches where they don't believe in Christ's presence in the Eucharist and don't believe that the Eucharist is Christ's blood and body. That salvation is ONLY by faith, that once saved always saved dogma.

I had to step up and ask myself if I will ever change my mind about these differences ? and then ask myself why am I rejecting these teachings and beliefs ? I came to conclusion that I will never accept them and for many many reasons. So no point of trying to join a Church that I don't believe in her full teachings and above that I'm not allowed to disagree with the Church without being less Catholic or less Orthodox somehow.

I found the Church that I agree with almost all of her teachings ( It was a shock to find that such Church exist ) and even the ones that I have few disagreements with, I'm allowed to and can accept them or rejected them without condemnation from the Church.

May I ask, just out of personal interest, what Church would that be? Is it the Anglican Church?

It is the Anglican Church indeed.

I've always mocked that Church, never ever took it seriously, never looked with respect to it or to its leaders, I really didn't, to me it was a Church only for British ( not because there was anything wrong in the Church, but because of my own superficial thinking and judgment on a Church that I didn't even get to really know ). Then I made a thread where I asked for members opinion on the Anglican Church and from the replies and how Anglicans here were replying, I became interested in it, so went to read about it more and just read, know what that really is, and with time I found it to agree with plenty of my beliefs, and I agree with her on plenty of things, I asked myself if it is the Church that I was looking for all this time, but I had to slow it down and went to the Catholic Church instead, because of the papacy issue, yet, I just couldn't even believe what the Catholic Church teach about the papacy anyway.

Sense I found a Church that takes the Bible as the first, then takes Tradition ( the one that agree with the Bible )  second, aaaand takes Reason third! My biggest problem solved.

Also the amount of freedom the Anglican Church ( Most of the Anglican Communion not all ) give to its members to make their own decisions on several issues without the fear of being condemned by the Church is very refreshing.

And I'm very confident in my decision, because I can't imagine what could go wrong between me and the Anglican Church. I just can't even think of one thing at this moment that I don't like about this Church. I don't even feel the need to make more research on it. It is very clear, very open Church, very diverse, which means even if I disagree on few things, I don't need to feel less Anglican in anyway.

It is simply the Christian Church that I was longing for all this time, and I never imagined the Church that I mocked, and looked down at is the one that I was looking for.

Offline LBK

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Re: I think I'm losing my faith all together.
« Reply #44 on: June 25, 2014, 11:25:00 PM »
Quote
And I'm very confident in my decision, because I can't imagine what could go wrong between me and the Anglican Church.

Famous last words.  ;)
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?