OrthodoxChristianity.net
December 18, 2014, 09:46:23 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: " Our Lord God the Pope ".  (Read 1741 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Raylight
Moderated
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Posts: 1,815


« Reply #45 on: June 24, 2014, 12:18:51 PM »

Why would bother with an anti-Catholic Protestant's website?  What do you expect to find there?
the text


It claims that the verse  " Dnm Deu nrm Papa " is the one says " Our Lord God the Pope ".

Notice DeuGod in Latin translated into Deus. Hmm, Deu/Deus. Do both mean different things ?

Im sure the Pope from time to time was looked upon as "God on Earth" at some time in the RCC's history...After all he is considered the Vicar of Christ on Earth to many followers, why should this be a surprise to anyone?

It doesn't surprise me anymore. It is not the official teaching of the Catholic Church, but as far as I know, the Church doesn't say or do anything to prevent such belief from spreading.

Here is a very short video showing what I'm talking about...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBo7xFMNZTo

Yeah, the Pope is like " God Himself almost, you know... ".

Logged
Porter ODoran
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Catechumen
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese
Posts: 2,290


Erst Amish Appalachian


WWW
« Reply #46 on: June 24, 2014, 12:28:19 PM »

And we wonder why the religious feeling in the West eventually became that an individual can dogmatize or at least have effective opinion about dogma.
Logged

In love did God create the world; in love does he guide it ...; in love is he going wondrously to transform it. --Abba Isaac

Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity. --Climacus
minasoliman
Mr., Sir, Dude, Guy, Male, tr. Minas in Greek, Menes in white people Egyptologists :-P
Section Moderator
Toumarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Oriental Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Coptic Orthodox Archdiocese of North America
Posts: 12,958


Strengthen O Lord the work of Your hands(Is 19:25)


« Reply #47 on: June 24, 2014, 12:30:18 PM »

Why would bother with an anti-Catholic Protestant's website?  What do you expect to find there?
the text


It claims that the verse  " Dnm Deu nrm Papa " is the one says " Our Lord God the Pope ".

Notice DeuGod in Latin translated into Deus. Hmm, Deu/Deus. Do both mean different things ?

Im sure the Pope from time to time was looked upon as "God on Earth" at some time in the RCC's history...After all he is considered the Vicar of Christ on Earth to many followers, why should this be a surprise to anyone?

It doesn't surprise me anymore. It is not the official teaching of the Catholic Church, but as far as I know, the Church doesn't say or do anything to prevent such belief from spreading.

Here is a very short video showing what I'm talking about...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBo7xFMNZTo

Yeah, the Pope is like " God Himself almost, you know... ".



I think we can forgive some people's simple piety. Sometimes, people have a personality cult and follow almost to the t every word that comes out of a patriarch or bishop's mouth.  It is why St. James said something about being wary of becoming teachers, because they will receive a stricter punishment.
Logged

Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.
Peter J
Formerly PJ
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Melkite
Posts: 6,174



« Reply #48 on: June 30, 2014, 12:25:28 PM »

You guys are hilarious! Roll Eyes

As far as I know (just a mile or two down the road, anyway  Grin), we nefarious Catholics still recite the Nicene Creed, aka the profession of faith.  You know, the one that goes, "I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, creator of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible..."  Despite any claims to the contrary, this does NOT describe, nor has it ever described, nor will it ever describe any Pope.  

There are those who, unfortunately, engage in pope-olatry, but that's really just a sin against the 1st Commandment.

Who is Christ on earth?  Most likely your neighbor and your enemy and that homeless guy I didn't offer a decent meal to.  

Anyone, imho, who thinks or believes that the Pope is "Our Lord God" is a heretic.

Just my 2-cents worth. Smiley  (As I don my flame-retardant suit . Grin)

(emphasis added)

Well ... the flames don't seem to have materialized. I have to wonder, though, if it would have made you happy if they had.
Logged

- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Online Online

Posts: 30,490



« Reply #49 on: June 30, 2014, 12:27:59 PM »

...the flames don't seem to have materialized.

Evidence for an incorporeal punishment/cleansing then?
Logged

"By the way he dies as a human being he shows us what it is to be God." - Fr. John Behr
podkarpatska
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ACROD
Posts: 8,960


Pokrov


WWW
« Reply #50 on: July 01, 2014, 09:29:29 AM »

And we wonder why the religious feeling in the West eventually became that an individual can dogmatize or at least have effective opinion about dogma.


And the Orthodox individual is immune from such behavior?
Logged
podkarpatska
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: ACROD
Posts: 8,960


Pokrov


WWW
« Reply #51 on: July 01, 2014, 09:35:42 AM »

We're all gods as Christ said. We just act like complete idiots almost all the time. Tongue

Indeed. There are myriad solid Eastern Orthodox (and I assume OO as well) objections to the post schism formulations of the Roman papacy. We need not import hysterical exaggerations from Protestant sources to make our case. (The same holds true with respect to most human discourse,all that the extremist, exaggerated nonsense accomplishes is to solidify the other side or turn off many who might have had an open mind.)
Logged
The young fogey
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,814


I'm an alpaca, actually


WWW
« Reply #52 on: July 01, 2014, 10:12:37 AM »

Learned Orthodox know we don't worship the Pope or think he IS the church. Both well-meaning conservative Vatican II Catholics and liberals fall for the latter, thanks in part to the modern media's focus on the person of the Pope. Conservatives fall back on it because without the traditional liturgy they have no other identity anymore; liberals don't believe in church infallibility so they think the Pope can order the changes they would like.

The argument against the papacy I respect is that of the old Anglican high churchmen, the Tractarians: patristic, very conservative, basically afraid that the Pope's authority, such as the development of doctrine (only an opinion, not our doctrine!), is Modernism's cousin. "He can change anything!" No, he can't.

I've said that I think a lot of the Orthodox convert boomlet 20 years ago would have been High Church Anglican 100 years ago: more accessible than Eastern Orthodoxy in the West at the time, no cultural barrier, etc.

The rebuttal to that principled position: the Episcopal Church, hardly more conservative than Rome. Rome teaches now what it did then, in full.
Logged

"You always were a historically illiterate jerk, John." - OicwR doyen Stuart Koehl

High-church libertarian
Blog
xOrthodox4Christx
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Protestant (Inquirer)
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Christianity
Posts: 3,628



« Reply #53 on: July 01, 2014, 10:20:59 AM »

Learned Orthodox know we don't worship the Pope or think he IS the church. Both well-meaning conservative Vatican II Catholics and liberals fall for the latter, thanks in part to the modern media's focus on the person of the Pope. Conservatives fall back on it because without the traditional liturgy they have no other identity anymore; liberals don't believe in church infallibility so they think the Pope can order the changes they would like.

The argument against the papacy I respect is that of the old Anglican high churchmen, the Tractarians: patristic, very conservative, basically afraid that the Pope's authority, such as the development of doctrine (only an opinion, not our doctrine!), is Modernism's cousin. "He can change anything!" No, he can't.

I've said that I think a lot of the Orthodox convert boomlet 20 years ago would have been High Church Anglican 100 years ago: more accessible than Eastern Orthodoxy in the West at the time, no cultural barrier, etc.

The rebuttal to that principled position: the Episcopal Church, hardly more conservative than Rome. Rome teaches now what it did then, in full.

That's why Purgatory was only mentioned by the Pope beginning in the early Middle Ages.
Logged

"Years ago I recognized my kinship with all living beings, and I made up my mind that I was not one bit better than the meanest on earth.... While there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element, I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free." (Eugene Debs)
The young fogey
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,814


I'm an alpaca, actually


WWW
« Reply #54 on: July 01, 2014, 10:23:04 AM »

That's why Purgatory was only mentioned by the Pope beginning in the early Middle Ages.

Development of doctrine, not new doctrine. Prayer for the dead logically presupposes an intermediate state; otherwise you get universalism including in the form of apocatastasis, which would violate free will.
Logged

"You always were a historically illiterate jerk, John." - OicwR doyen Stuart Koehl

High-church libertarian
Blog
xOrthodox4Christx
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Protestant (Inquirer)
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Christianity
Posts: 3,628



« Reply #55 on: July 01, 2014, 10:57:18 AM »

That's why Purgatory was only mentioned by the Pope beginning in the early Middle Ages.

Development of doctrine, not new doctrine. Prayer for the dead logically presupposes an intermediate state; otherwise you get universalism including in the form of apocatastasis, which would violate free will.

Sure. But conspicuous absence does seem to suggest novel doctrine. Just sayin'.

'Intermediate state' doesn't need to be a dogmatic construction with set parameters either.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2014, 11:01:09 AM by xOrthodox4Christx » Logged

"Years ago I recognized my kinship with all living beings, and I made up my mind that I was not one bit better than the meanest on earth.... While there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element, I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free." (Eugene Debs)
The young fogey
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,814


I'm an alpaca, actually


WWW
« Reply #56 on: July 01, 2014, 11:00:41 AM »

Sure. But conspicuous absence does seem to suggest novel doctrine. Just sayin'.

Contraception.

'Intermediate state' doesn't need to be a dogmatic construction with parameters.

It's on you to prove our definition's heretical.
Logged

"You always were a historically illiterate jerk, John." - OicwR doyen Stuart Koehl

High-church libertarian
Blog
xOrthodox4Christx
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Protestant (Inquirer)
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Christianity
Posts: 3,628



« Reply #57 on: July 01, 2014, 11:03:59 AM »

Sure. But conspicuous absence does seem to suggest novel doctrine. Just sayin'.

Contraception.


Not a doctrine.

'Intermediate state' doesn't need to be a dogmatic construction with parameters.

Quote
It's on you to prove our definition's heretical.
[/quote]

Nobody said it was heretical, just unnecessary. Which means it's novel. At least, Orthodox would say.
Logged

"Years ago I recognized my kinship with all living beings, and I made up my mind that I was not one bit better than the meanest on earth.... While there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element, I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free." (Eugene Debs)
Cavaradossi
法網恢恢,疏而不漏
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Chalcedonian Automaton Serial No. 5Aj4bx9
Jurisdiction: Chalcedonian Automaton Factory 5
Posts: 1,636



« Reply #58 on: July 03, 2014, 04:14:32 AM »

'Intermediate state' doesn't need to be a dogmatic construction with parameters.

It's on you to prove our definition's heretical.

How convenient. Really, it is up to you to show how the belief that theology is a science is epistemologically justifiable. Even so, even if theology could be derived from clever syllogisms, in the absence of a divine revelation which definitively reveals purgatory, one would be stuck trying to explain the necessity of purgatory using natural theology.
Logged

Be comforted, and have faith, O Israel, for your God is infinitely simple and one, composed of no parts.
Peter J
Formerly PJ
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Melkite
Posts: 6,174



« Reply #59 on: July 03, 2014, 11:32:17 AM »

How convenient.

Since I am innocent of this crime, sir, I find it decidedly inconvenient that the gun was never found.
Logged

- Peter Jericho (a CAF poster)
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Moderated
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 38,135



« Reply #60 on: July 03, 2014, 11:44:18 AM »

Sure. But conspicuous absence does seem to suggest novel doctrine. Just sayin'.

Contraception.
Noonan pointed out the irony that HV embraces the one method of contraception that patristics (notably absent from the encyclical) can be cited condemning.

It's on you to prove our definition's heretical.
A heretical definition of a heretical ecclesiastical community? Sort of axiomatic.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2014, 12:10:06 PM by ialmisry » Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
ialmisry
There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
Moderated
Hypatos
*****************
Offline Offline

Faith: جامعي Arab confesssing the Orthodox Faith of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church
Jurisdiction: Antioch (for now), but my heart belongs to Alexandria
Posts: 38,135



« Reply #61 on: July 03, 2014, 11:50:07 AM »

We're all gods as Christ said. We just act like complete idiots almost all the time. Tongue

Indeed. There are myriad solid Eastern Orthodox (and I assume OO as well) objections to the post schism formulations of the Roman papacy. We need not import hysterical exaggerations from Protestant sources to make our case. (The same holds true with respect to most human discourse,all that the extremist, exaggerated nonsense accomplishes is to solidify the other side or turn off many who might have had an open mind.)
Alas! such "open minds" don't make history. I'm afraid Rush is right: go to the library and find "Great Moderates in History" and you will find that no such tome exists.

Of course, many use a very broad definition of "hysterical exaggerations."  Particularly, as is the case here at bar, such hysterical exaggerations are allowed to flourish among the Vatican's followers.  Qui tacet consentit.
Logged

Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth
J Michael
Older than dirt; dumber than a box of rocks; colossally ignorant; a little crazy ;-)
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Byzantine Catholic
Posts: 10,267


Lord, have mercy! I live under a rock. Alleluia!


« Reply #62 on: July 13, 2014, 07:33:20 PM »

You guys are hilarious! Roll Eyes

As far as I know (just a mile or two down the road, anyway  Grin), we nefarious Catholics still recite the Nicene Creed, aka the profession of faith.  You know, the one that goes, "I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, creator of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible..."  Despite any claims to the contrary, this does NOT describe, nor has it ever described, nor will it ever describe any Pope.  

There are those who, unfortunately, engage in pope-olatry, but that's really just a sin against the 1st Commandment.

Who is Christ on earth?  Most likely your neighbor and your enemy and that homeless guy I didn't offer a decent meal to.  

Anyone, imho, who thinks or believes that the Pope is "Our Lord God" is a heretic.

Just my 2-cents worth. Smiley  (As I don my flame-retardant suit . Grin)

(emphasis added)

Well ... the flames don't seem to have materialized. I have to wonder, though, if it would have made you happy if they had.

Nope, it wouldn't have.  Au contraire, I'm quite happy they did not. Smiley
Logged

"May Thy Cross, O Lord, in which I seek refuge, be for me a bridge across the great river of fire.  May I pass along it to the habitation of life." ~St. Ephraim the Syrian

"Sometimes you're the windshield.  Sometimes you're the bug." ~ Mark Knopfler (?)
Tags:
Pages: « 1 2  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.09 seconds with 45 queries.