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Author Topic: " Our Lord God the Pope ".  (Read 1547 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #45 on: June 24, 2014, 12:18:51 PM »

Why would bother with an anti-Catholic Protestant's website?  What do you expect to find there?
the text


It claims that the verse  " Dnm Deu nrm Papa " is the one says " Our Lord God the Pope ".

Notice DeuGod in Latin translated into Deus. Hmm, Deu/Deus. Do both mean different things ?

Im sure the Pope from time to time was looked upon as "God on Earth" at some time in the RCC's history...After all he is considered the Vicar of Christ on Earth to many followers, why should this be a surprise to anyone?

It doesn't surprise me anymore. It is not the official teaching of the Catholic Church, but as far as I know, the Church doesn't say or do anything to prevent such belief from spreading.

Here is a very short video showing what I'm talking about...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBo7xFMNZTo

Yeah, the Pope is like " God Himself almost, you know... ".

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« Reply #46 on: June 24, 2014, 12:28:19 PM »

And we wonder why the religious feeling in the West eventually became that an individual can dogmatize or at least have effective opinion about dogma.
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« Reply #47 on: June 24, 2014, 12:30:18 PM »

Why would bother with an anti-Catholic Protestant's website?  What do you expect to find there?
the text


It claims that the verse  " Dnm Deu nrm Papa " is the one says " Our Lord God the Pope ".

Notice DeuGod in Latin translated into Deus. Hmm, Deu/Deus. Do both mean different things ?

Im sure the Pope from time to time was looked upon as "God on Earth" at some time in the RCC's history...After all he is considered the Vicar of Christ on Earth to many followers, why should this be a surprise to anyone?

It doesn't surprise me anymore. It is not the official teaching of the Catholic Church, but as far as I know, the Church doesn't say or do anything to prevent such belief from spreading.

Here is a very short video showing what I'm talking about...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBo7xFMNZTo

Yeah, the Pope is like " God Himself almost, you know... ".



I think we can forgive some people's simple piety. Sometimes, people have a personality cult and follow almost to the t every word that comes out of a patriarch or bishop's mouth.  It is why St. James said something about being wary of becoming teachers, because they will receive a stricter punishment.
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« Reply #48 on: June 30, 2014, 12:25:28 PM »

You guys are hilarious! Roll Eyes

As far as I know (just a mile or two down the road, anyway  Grin), we nefarious Catholics still recite the Nicene Creed, aka the profession of faith.  You know, the one that goes, "I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, creator of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible..."  Despite any claims to the contrary, this does NOT describe, nor has it ever described, nor will it ever describe any Pope.  

There are those who, unfortunately, engage in pope-olatry, but that's really just a sin against the 1st Commandment.

Who is Christ on earth?  Most likely your neighbor and your enemy and that homeless guy I didn't offer a decent meal to.  

Anyone, imho, who thinks or believes that the Pope is "Our Lord God" is a heretic.

Just my 2-cents worth. Smiley  (As I don my flame-retardant suit . Grin)

(emphasis added)

Well ... the flames don't seem to have materialized. I have to wonder, though, if it would have made you happy if they had.
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« Reply #49 on: June 30, 2014, 12:27:59 PM »

...the flames don't seem to have materialized.

Evidence for an incorporeal punishment/cleansing then?
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« Reply #50 on: July 01, 2014, 09:29:29 AM »

And we wonder why the religious feeling in the West eventually became that an individual can dogmatize or at least have effective opinion about dogma.


And the Orthodox individual is immune from such behavior?
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« Reply #51 on: July 01, 2014, 09:35:42 AM »

We're all gods as Christ said. We just act like complete idiots almost all the time. Tongue

Indeed. There are myriad solid Eastern Orthodox (and I assume OO as well) objections to the post schism formulations of the Roman papacy. We need not import hysterical exaggerations from Protestant sources to make our case. (The same holds true with respect to most human discourse,all that the extremist, exaggerated nonsense accomplishes is to solidify the other side or turn off many who might have had an open mind.)
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« Reply #52 on: July 01, 2014, 10:12:37 AM »

Learned Orthodox know we don't worship the Pope or think he IS the church. Both well-meaning conservative Vatican II Catholics and liberals fall for the latter, thanks in part to the modern media's focus on the person of the Pope. Conservatives fall back on it because without the traditional liturgy they have no other identity anymore; liberals don't believe in church infallibility so they think the Pope can order the changes they would like.

The argument against the papacy I respect is that of the old Anglican high churchmen, the Tractarians: patristic, very conservative, basically afraid that the Pope's authority, such as the development of doctrine (only an opinion, not our doctrine!), is Modernism's cousin. "He can change anything!" No, he can't.

I've said that I think a lot of the Orthodox convert boomlet 20 years ago would have been High Church Anglican 100 years ago: more accessible than Eastern Orthodoxy in the West at the time, no cultural barrier, etc.

The rebuttal to that principled position: the Episcopal Church, hardly more conservative than Rome. Rome teaches now what it did then, in full.
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« Reply #53 on: July 01, 2014, 10:20:59 AM »

Learned Orthodox know we don't worship the Pope or think he IS the church. Both well-meaning conservative Vatican II Catholics and liberals fall for the latter, thanks in part to the modern media's focus on the person of the Pope. Conservatives fall back on it because without the traditional liturgy they have no other identity anymore; liberals don't believe in church infallibility so they think the Pope can order the changes they would like.

The argument against the papacy I respect is that of the old Anglican high churchmen, the Tractarians: patristic, very conservative, basically afraid that the Pope's authority, such as the development of doctrine (only an opinion, not our doctrine!), is Modernism's cousin. "He can change anything!" No, he can't.

I've said that I think a lot of the Orthodox convert boomlet 20 years ago would have been High Church Anglican 100 years ago: more accessible than Eastern Orthodoxy in the West at the time, no cultural barrier, etc.

The rebuttal to that principled position: the Episcopal Church, hardly more conservative than Rome. Rome teaches now what it did then, in full.

That's why Purgatory was only mentioned by the Pope beginning in the early Middle Ages.
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« Reply #54 on: July 01, 2014, 10:23:04 AM »

That's why Purgatory was only mentioned by the Pope beginning in the early Middle Ages.

Development of doctrine, not new doctrine. Prayer for the dead logically presupposes an intermediate state; otherwise you get universalism including in the form of apocatastasis, which would violate free will.
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« Reply #55 on: July 01, 2014, 10:57:18 AM »

That's why Purgatory was only mentioned by the Pope beginning in the early Middle Ages.

Development of doctrine, not new doctrine. Prayer for the dead logically presupposes an intermediate state; otherwise you get universalism including in the form of apocatastasis, which would violate free will.

Sure. But conspicuous absence does seem to suggest novel doctrine. Just sayin'.

'Intermediate state' doesn't need to be a dogmatic construction with set parameters either.
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« Reply #56 on: July 01, 2014, 11:00:41 AM »

Sure. But conspicuous absence does seem to suggest novel doctrine. Just sayin'.

Contraception.

'Intermediate state' doesn't need to be a dogmatic construction with parameters.

It's on you to prove our definition's heretical.
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« Reply #57 on: July 01, 2014, 11:03:59 AM »

Sure. But conspicuous absence does seem to suggest novel doctrine. Just sayin'.

Contraception.


Not a doctrine.

'Intermediate state' doesn't need to be a dogmatic construction with parameters.

Quote
It's on you to prove our definition's heretical.
[/quote]

Nobody said it was heretical, just unnecessary. Which means it's novel. At least, Orthodox would say.
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« Reply #58 on: July 03, 2014, 04:14:32 AM »

'Intermediate state' doesn't need to be a dogmatic construction with parameters.

It's on you to prove our definition's heretical.

How convenient. Really, it is up to you to show how the belief that theology is a science is epistemologically justifiable. Even so, even if theology could be derived from clever syllogisms, in the absence of a divine revelation which definitively reveals purgatory, one would be stuck trying to explain the necessity of purgatory using natural theology.
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« Reply #59 on: July 03, 2014, 11:32:17 AM »

How convenient.

Since I am innocent of this crime, sir, I find it decidedly inconvenient that the gun was never found.
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« Reply #60 on: July 03, 2014, 11:44:18 AM »

Sure. But conspicuous absence does seem to suggest novel doctrine. Just sayin'.

Contraception.
Noonan pointed out the irony that HV embraces the one method of contraception that patristics (notably absent from the encyclical) can be cited condemning.

It's on you to prove our definition's heretical.
A heretical definition of a heretical ecclesiastical community? Sort of axiomatic.
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« Reply #61 on: July 03, 2014, 11:50:07 AM »

We're all gods as Christ said. We just act like complete idiots almost all the time. Tongue

Indeed. There are myriad solid Eastern Orthodox (and I assume OO as well) objections to the post schism formulations of the Roman papacy. We need not import hysterical exaggerations from Protestant sources to make our case. (The same holds true with respect to most human discourse,all that the extremist, exaggerated nonsense accomplishes is to solidify the other side or turn off many who might have had an open mind.)
Alas! such "open minds" don't make history. I'm afraid Rush is right: go to the library and find "Great Moderates in History" and you will find that no such tome exists.

Of course, many use a very broad definition of "hysterical exaggerations."  Particularly, as is the case here at bar, such hysterical exaggerations are allowed to flourish among the Vatican's followers.  Qui tacet consentit.
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« Reply #62 on: July 13, 2014, 07:33:20 PM »

You guys are hilarious! Roll Eyes

As far as I know (just a mile or two down the road, anyway  Grin), we nefarious Catholics still recite the Nicene Creed, aka the profession of faith.  You know, the one that goes, "I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, creator of heaven and earth and of all things visible and invisible..."  Despite any claims to the contrary, this does NOT describe, nor has it ever described, nor will it ever describe any Pope.  

There are those who, unfortunately, engage in pope-olatry, but that's really just a sin against the 1st Commandment.

Who is Christ on earth?  Most likely your neighbor and your enemy and that homeless guy I didn't offer a decent meal to.  

Anyone, imho, who thinks or believes that the Pope is "Our Lord God" is a heretic.

Just my 2-cents worth. Smiley  (As I don my flame-retardant suit . Grin)

(emphasis added)

Well ... the flames don't seem to have materialized. I have to wonder, though, if it would have made you happy if they had.

Nope, it wouldn't have.  Au contraire, I'm quite happy they did not. Smiley
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