OrthodoxChristianity.net
November 26, 2014, 04:42:32 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Beware New Age, Vatican tells flock  (Read 3584 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Brigid of Kildare
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 280



« on: February 01, 2003, 06:09:36 AM »

I noticed this item in yesterday's Guardian and couldn't agree with the Cardinal more except perhaps for his last sentence?

Beware New Age, Vatican tells flock

Sophie Arie in Rome
Friday January 31, 2003
The Guardian

The Vatican is to urge Catholics to resist experimenting in cranky "alternative" lifestyles, in an attempt to prevent its flock being led astray by the growing popularity of New Age spiritualism.
Vatican officials, including the British archbishop Michael Fitzgerald, who is president of the pontifical council for inter-religious dialogue, will publish a document on Monday of nearly 100 pages called Christian Reflection on the New Age.

The church's "reflection" comes less that two months after Cherie Blair, the prime minister's wife and one of Britain's most prominent Roman Catholics, was drew the scorn of the British tabloid newspapers for dabbling in anti-stress techniques under the guidance of her lifestyle guru, Carole Caplin.

Under the headline Vatican "Excommunicates" New Age, the leftwing Italian newspaper Messagero said the Vatican document would outline why New Age practices are incompatible with Catholic faith.

Vatican experts said they were particularly ruffled by the phenomenon because, unlike cults and sects, it was an "umbrella-like", amorphous, indefinable movement which might not be as harmless as it appears.

New Age thinking, inspired by eastern philosophies and religions, rejects the traditional concept of God in the belief that the self is what really matters.

It proposes that individuals tune into a universal consciousness using any method that works, from crystals and pyramids to the occult, drugs and scream therapy.

Originally associated with 1960s hippy culture, it has inspired the boom of more widespread alternative therapies for healing stressed western minds and souls, such as yoga, massage and acupuncture.

Cardinal Poupard, the Vatican's minister of culture, has warned that the phenomenon, based on "weak thinking", is drawing Catholics from the path.

Catholics would be better off believing in "encounters with aliens" than being sucked into the New Age movement, he said.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,885838,00.html
Logged

Bríd Naomhtha, Mhuire na nGaeil, Guí Orainn
The young fogey
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,798


I'm an alpaca, actually


WWW
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2003, 12:04:57 PM »

Quote
Originally associated with 1960s hippy culture, it has inspired the boom of more widespread alternative therapies for healing stressed western minds and souls, such as yoga, massage and acupuncture.

Massage and acupuncture are legitimate physical therapies, not idolatry of self or pagan religion.
Logged

Brigid of Kildare
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 280



« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2003, 12:06:07 PM »


[Massage and acupuncture are legitimate physical therapies, not idolatry of self or pagan religion.

Point taken Serge, if you'll pardon the pun. Some therapies are perfectly legitimate but I agree with the writer that the danger of the New Age lies in its amorphous character. In Britain, at least, it has become an accepted part of mainstream culture. I recently bought a CD of Gregorian Chants for Christmastide by the monks of Gethsemani Abbey at a major British music retailers and found it filed under the category 'New Age'! I'm also certainly aware that much of the so-called "women's interest magazines" peddle New Age thinking uncritically. Mrs Blair is not alone in dabbling in this area, although I don't know exactly what she was into, a number of Royal Family figures including Diana and Fergie were also reportedly sitting under crystal pyramids not so long ago.

Apart from a lot of this New Age thinking being a syncretistic mish-mash of Hinduism, Buddhism and so-called esoteric Christianity, it has always struck me that the purveyors of courses in miracles etc. do not share an aversion for material wealth. Have you seen the price of this stuff? Enlightenment and stress relief is only for the well-heeled it seems.

Personally I have found that being introduced to holy Orthodoxy has done more to help me be a 'holistic' being than any of this New Age bunk. It seems to me that western Christianity no longer offers people the idea of a spiritual path to follow, or guides along the way so they are turning to this counterfeit instead. I'd like to see the Catholic Church (and others) addressing this issue as well as simply condemning.

Brigid
Logged

Bríd Naomhtha, Mhuire na nGaeil, Guí Orainn
Nigula Qian Zishi
Administrator Emeritus, Retired Deacon, Inactive Poster, Active Orthodox Christian, Father, and Husband
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America
Posts: 1,836


我美丽的妻子和我。

nstanosheck
WWW
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2003, 03:15:40 PM »

Very true Brigid. One of the best books I've ever read on the dangers of the New Age is ORTHODOXY AND THE RELIGION OF THE FUTUREwhich of course was written by an Orthodox Hieromonk that experienced it pre-conversion.
Logged

在基督         My Original Blog
尼古拉         My Facebook Profile
前执事         My Twitter Page
Brigid of Kildare
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 280



« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2003, 11:28:14 AM »

Here it is everyone, never mind the filioque controversy, let's hear New Age 'guru' Marianne Williamson on the relationship of the Holy Spirit to Christ:

"Jesus is a personal symbol of the Holy Spirit. Having been totally healed by the Holy Spirit, Jesus became one with him. Every thought, action, and deed of Jesus was guided by the Holy Spirit instead of ego. He’s not the only face the Holy Spirit takes on - he is a face. To think about Jesus is to think about and bring forth the perfect love inside us. Jesus actualized the Christ mind, and was then given the power to help the rest of us reach that place within ourselves".

and in case that's not sufficiently clear, what about this:

"Jesus was a human being who while on earth completely self-actualized and fulfilled in all ways the potential glory that lies within us all. He became one with the Essence and Christ Spirit that is in all of us. In that sense, he is our evolutionary elder brother".

The funny thing is that so many of these New Age types condemn the traditional credal language as unintelligible and then proceed to utter this type of meaningless drivel. The sad thing is that so many people are willing to hear it and pay so well for the privilege.

Brigid

http://www.beliefnet.com/story/120/story_12052.html

What Marianne Williamson Believes About Jesus
A conversation between an itinerant writer and a spirituality guru. Subject? Jesus.  
 
By William J. Elliott  
Spiritual pilgrim and psychotherapist Bill Elliott travelled the country in a motor home, interviewing believers about what Jesus means to them. The result is "A Place at the Table," a new book of 24 interviews with scholars, evangelists, and mystics. One of his most arresting conversations was with New Age guru Marianne Williamson, author of "A Return to Love," which is based on the teachings of A Course in Miracles.

Logged

Bríd Naomhtha, Mhuire na nGaeil, Guí Orainn
The young fogey
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,798


I'm an alpaca, actually


WWW
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2003, 11:44:38 AM »

Good point, Brigid — putting down the creeds that way is hypocritical of them. How many ancient heresies can we pick out of the Marianne Williamson quotation here?

Quote
Jesus is a personal symbol of the Holy Spirit. Having been totally healed by the Holy Spirit, Jesus became one with him.

Adoptionism?

Quote
He’s not the only face the Holy Spirit takes on - he is a face.


Sabellianism?

Quote
Jesus was a human being who while on earth completely self-actualized and fulfilled in all ways the potential glory that lies within us all. He became one with the Essence and Christ Spirit that is in all of us. In that sense, he is our evolutionary elder brother.

Self-actualized, huh? Sounds like Adoptionism again and maybe Arianism and Pelagianism too.
Logged

Thomas
Section Moderator
Archon
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 2,829



« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2003, 04:50:44 PM »

 Smiley Glory to Jesus Christ Smiley

I had a very wise monk  who is now reposed who told me that there is nothing new in the world only the same old heresies put out in new clothing by the Father of all Lies.

Logged

Your brother in Christ ,
Thomas
sinjinsmythe
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 737



« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2003, 01:39:05 AM »

Aren't UFOs and encounters with aliens considered new age phenomena? Huh I don't quite understand that last sentence.
Logged

Life is just one disappointment after another.
Elisha
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 4,462


« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2003, 02:04:45 AM »

I definitely found Fr. Seraphim's "O & the R of the F" book very enlightening, but as other's have said is a little too harsh and certain practices/methods.  He even mentioned Rolfing (to avoid), which is just a massage therapy to align your muscles/spine.  I went through the Rolfing series and found it very beneficial for my back - there wasn't anything 'spiritual' about it all.  Peter Jon Gillquist (Fr. Peter's Son) helped me put it in perspective (I think we were talking about the Soul After Death though) when told me that Fr. Seraphim's views are A VIEW and not THEE Orthodox View.
Logged
sinjinsmythe
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 737



« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2003, 10:00:18 AM »

Peter Jon Gillquist (Fr. Peter's Son) helped me put it in perspective (I think we were talking about the Soul After Death though) when told me that Fr. Seraphim's views are A VIEW and not THEE Orthodox View.

I think that is a good thing to point out. Sometimes, people take his views as Orthodox dogma and forget that they are just a point of view.
Logged

Life is just one disappointment after another.
Brigid of Kildare
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 280



« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2003, 08:20:54 AM »

Aren't UFOs and encounters with aliens considered new age phenomena? Huh I don't quite understand that last sentence.

No, I didn't understand it either. If you want to read the full text of the document it can be found at: http://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/PCCPCIDA.HTM

JESUS CHRIST, THE BEARER OF THE WATER OF LIFE
Pontifical Council for Culture & Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 
JESUS CHRIST
THE BEARER OF THE WATER OF LIFE

A Christian reflection
on the “New Age”

 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TABLE OF CONTENTS

Foreword

1. What sort of reflection

1.1. Why now?
1.1. Communications
1.3. Cultural background
1.4. The New Age and Catholic faith
1.5. A positive challenge

2. New Age spirituality: an overview

2.1. What is new about New Age?
2.2. What does the New Age claim to offer?
2.2.1. Enchantment: There Must be an Angel
2.2.2. Harmony and Understanding: Good Vibrations
2.2.3. Health: Golden Living
2.2.4. Wholeness: A Magical Mystery Tour
2.3. The fundamental principles of New Age thinking
2.3.1. A global response in a time of crisis
2.3.2. The essential matrix of New Age thinking
2.3.3. Central themes of the New Age
2.3.4. What does New Age say about
2.3.4.1. ...the human person?
2.3.4.2. ...God?
2.3.4.3. ...the world?
2.4. “Inhabitants of myth rather than history”: New Age and culture
2.5. Why has New Age grown so rapidly and spread so effectively?

3. New Age and Christian faith

3.1. New Age as spirituality
3.2. Spiritual narcissism?
3.3. The Cosmic Christ
3.4. Christian mysticism and New Age mysticism
3.5. The God within and theosis

4. New Age and Christian faith in contrast

5. Jesus Christ offers us the water of life

6. Points to note

6.1. Guidance and sound formation are needed
6.2. Practical steps

7. Appendix

7.1. Some brief formulations of New Age ideas
7.2. A select glossary
7.3. Key New Age places

8. Resources

8.1. Documents of the Catholic Church's Magisterium
8.2. Christian studies

9. General bibliography

9.1. Some New Age books
9.2. Historical, descriptive and analytical works  

 
Logged

Bríd Naomhtha, Mhuire na nGaeil, Guí Orainn
Brigid of Kildare
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 280



« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2003, 09:47:04 AM »

As a postscript I should add that there are also a number of commentaries on this document by various members of the hierarchy including one by Cardinal Paul Poupard. This quotation interested me in particular:

"Today, Western culture, now followed by many others, has passed from an almost instinctive awareness of God's presence to what is often called a more "scientific" view of reality. Everything must be explained in terms of our daily experience. Whatever makes one think of miracles immediately becomes grounds for suspicion. As a result, all symbolic actions and objects, known as sacramentals, once part of the daily religious practice of every Catholic, are today far less evident in the religious panorama than they once were".

Alas, His Eminence did not comment to what extent   the post-Vatican II Church itself bears part of the responsibilityfor this state of affairs!

PRESENTATION OF HOLY SEE’S DOCUMENT ON NEW AGE
Cardinal Paul Poupard
President of the Pontifical Council for Culture  
http://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/PCCNEWAG.HTM

see also
Archbishop Michael Fitzgerald
President of the Pontifical Council for Interreligious Dialogue http://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/PCIDNEWA.HTM

and
Rev. Bernard Ardura, O. Praem.
Secretary of the Pontifical Council for Culture
http://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/PCCARDUR.HTM

Finally, there is an interview about the document and the New Age movement which is also worth reading.

NEW AGE IS MISTAKEN ANSWER TO SEARCH FOR MEANING
 
Interview with Massimo Introvigne, Expert in New Religious Movements TURIN, Italy, 19 MARCH 2003 http://www.ewtn.com/library/ISSUES/ZNEWAGE.HTM


 


Logged

Bríd Naomhtha, Mhuire na nGaeil, Guí Orainn
Linus7
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,780



« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2003, 03:50:59 PM »

I definitely found Fr. Seraphim's "O & the R of the F" book very enlightening, but as other's have said is a little too harsh and certain practices/methods.  He even mentioned Rolfing (to avoid), which is just a massage therapy to align your muscles/spine.  I went through the Rolfing series and found it very beneficial for my back - there wasn't anything 'spiritual' about it all.  Peter Jon Gillquist (Fr. Peter's Son) helped me put it in perspective (I think we were talking about the Soul After Death though) when told me that Fr. Seraphim's views are A VIEW and not THEE Orthodox View.

I too enjoyed Fr. Seraphim Rose's Orthodoxy and the Religion of the Future. Unfortunately, I loaned it to a Roman Catholic friend of mine a couple of months ago and haven't seen it since! Grin

I think the problem with things like Rolfing and yoga, for example, is not the physical movements or exercises involved. If one uses them and stops there, no problem.

The problems begin when one delves into the spiritual and mystical underpinnings of these systems.

When I was much younger I used yoga as a form of exercise and stretching and found it very beneficial. I read about some of the spiritual aspects of it but at the time thought, "What a load of crud!" That attitude shielded me from any of yoga's possible ill effects.

I think Christians need to be able to harvest the benefits from some of these systems while rejecting the religion that often accompanies them.

That is not always easy and not without inherent danger. Most of us should probably just stay away from these things.

I do think the Church needs to educate her people against the New Age Movement.
Logged

The first condition of salvation is to keep the norm of the true faith and in no way to deviate from the established doctrine of the Fathers.
- Pope St. Hormisdas
Elisha
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 4,462


« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2003, 05:06:26 PM »

I think the problem with things like Rolfing and yoga, for example, is not the physical movements or exercises involved. If one uses them and stops there, no problem.

The problems begin when one delves into the spiritual and mystical underpinnings of these systems.

When I was much younger I used yoga as a form of exercise and stretching and found it very beneficial. I read about some of the spiritual aspects of it but at the time thought, "What a load of crud!" That attitude shielded me from any of yoga's possible ill effects.

I think Christians need to be able to harvest the benefits from some of these systems while rejecting the religion that often accompanies them.

That is not always easy and not without inherent danger. Most of us should probably just stay away from these things.

I do think the Church needs to educate her people against the New Age Movement.

Well Rolfing really got me - I don't think there are any 'spiritual' aspects about it period.  I take the same view about the 'spiritual' aspects of yoga - don't know and don't care.  A friend from church actually teaches a class part time was joking one day, "Today class, we will chant the mantra 'Kyrie eleison'.
Logged
Justin Kissel
Formerly Asteriktos
Protospatharios
****************
Online Online

Posts: 30,212


that is not the teaching of...


« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2003, 05:20:39 PM »

Father Seraphim Rose seems to take a maximalistic approach when it comes to staying away from certain things. Even before he became Orthodox he shunned things he thought were "modern," and only yielded to these things if/when absolutely necessary. Fr. Seraphim for a long time refused to get a drivers license, for instance, but either walked or made a concession such as using a train or getting a ride with someone else. It was only after he moved out to the middle of nowhere and had to haul various things for missionary work and for the necessities of life that he yielded and got a vehicle and license. I think it's important to remember that while Fr. Seraphim spoke to extremes sometimes when writing generally, he was actually quite light-handed (as opposed to heavy handed) when dealing with his spiritual children. He took on many ascetical endeavors, but always kept his children in a state of moderation and on the middle of the road. So... I think we should understand his words in that light.
Logged
sinjinsmythe
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 737



« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2003, 07:02:50 PM »

What is rolfing?
Logged

Life is just one disappointment after another.
Linus7
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,780



« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2003, 07:28:08 PM »

What is rolfing?

It is basically a massage technique.

Here is a link: www.skepdic.com/rolfing.html .
Logged

The first condition of salvation is to keep the norm of the true faith and in no way to deviate from the established doctrine of the Fathers.
- Pope St. Hormisdas
Jetavan
Argumentum ad australopithecum
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Science to the Fourth Power
Jurisdiction: Ohayo Gozaimasu
Posts: 6,580


Barlaam and Josaphat


WWW
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2009, 06:25:12 PM »

What is rolfing?
He's the host of Golf Hawaii.
Logged

If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.
GiC
Resident Atheist
Site Supporter
Merarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Mathematician
Posts: 9,490



« Reply #18 on: December 03, 2009, 06:38:37 PM »


You do know that the guy you're responding to hasn't logged into this site in nearly 5 years, right? Wink
Logged

"The liberties of people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." -- Patrick Henry
Papist
Patriarch of Pontification
Toumarches
************
Online Online

Faith: Catholic
Jurisdiction: Byzantine
Posts: 12,365


Praying for the Christians in Iraq


« Reply #19 on: December 03, 2009, 07:13:19 PM »


You do know that the guy you're responding to hasn't logged into this site in nearly 5 years, right? Wink
His quote is the ghost of oc.net.
Logged

You are right. I apologize for having sacked Constantinople. I really need to stop doing that.
Tags:
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.092 seconds with 46 queries.