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Author Topic: Third Annual SCOOCH Youth Conference, NJ  (Read 1784 times) Average Rating: 0
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minasoliman
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« on: June 09, 2014, 09:45:26 PM »

Hey if you guys can make it, that would be great.  I'm gonna try my best to make it then, but I can't promise anything.   Here are the details provided by a friend of mine:

All 6 of our Oriental Orthodox bishops on the East Coast will be there for Q&A with the high school, college-aged, and young professional youth:

H.G. Bishop David (Coptic)
H.G. Bishop Makarios (Eritrean)
H.E. Archbishop Titus (Malankara-Syriac)
H.E. Archbishop Zekarias (Ethiopian)
H.E. Archbishop Khajag (Armenian)
H.E. Archbishop Vicken (Armenian)

H.H. Mor Ignatius Aphrem II Karim was actually a driving force behind this conference, but now he won't be in attendance for obvious reasons.  There will also be presentations profiling each of the Oriental Orthodox Churches by priests and servants.

http://www.scooch.org/2014/05/3r-annual-scooch-youth-conference/


(Little side note:  not sure if this was a typo, but I'm pretty sure it's "Syrian", not "Assyrian", unless there's something I don't know about)
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« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2014, 09:49:06 AM »

Assyrian isn't a typo.  St. Mary's insisted on keeping it instead of changing to Syrian or Syriac when the other Churches in the US did.


Assyrian Orthodox Church of the Virgin Mary

http://www.virginmarynj.org/

From the human encyclopedia that is Irish Melkite :


Maybe a bit of history will help:

"Assyrian" and "Syrian" are not just differences in spelling, but the explanation is not quite that simple and conflicting usages have been sorely contested among 3 different Churches at various times - to the point of lawsuits in some instances.

In the simplest of terms:

  • The Assyrian Apostolic Catholic Church, the Ancient Church of the East, and at least some within the Chaldean Catholic Church (all descended from a common Pre-Chalcedonian ecclesial ancestor) had long self-identified as "Assyrian". They did this as either a function of their Church affiliation, as an ethno-cultural identification, or both. They have also (formally or informally) utilized (or accepted) the usage "Assyrian Orthodox" at various points in their existence and the name has been used by others in reference to them in a way that suggested that it to be the Church's official name - which it never was.
  • The Syriac or Syrian Orthodox Church (Oriental Orthodox) considered "Assyrian" to be an apt descriptor of their own ethno-cultural heritage and were also loath to use "Syrian" as an identifier in the US, because of concern that they would be confused with the Syrian (Antiochian) Orthodox of the Eastern Orthodox Communion. As a consequence, in the late 19th and early 20th century, those Syrian/Syriac Orthodox in the US came to favor "Assyrian Orthodox" as a descriptor.

  • The Syrian (Antiochian) Orthodox of the Eastern Orthodox Communion (sometimes termed Roum (Roman) Orthodox or Melkite Orthodox in those days) never utilized "Assyrian" as a self-descriptor but were invested in the use of "Syrian".
  • Meanwhile, just to add to the chaos, there was also a relatively short-lived phenomenon known as either "Assyrian Orthodox" or "Orthodox Assyrians". These were (Eastern Orthodox) ethnic Assyrians who came into communion with the Russian Orthodox and, ultimately, were assimilated into ROCOR.

In the late 19th and early 20th centuries, when only the Syriacs and Syrians (Antiochians) had any real presence in the US, issues were non-existent - the former regularly called themselves "Assyrians" and the latter termed themselves "Syrians". When faithful of the Assyrian Apostolic Church of the East started to become a noticeable identity, competition began to arise among the various ecclesia for the right to naming conventions.

The Syriacs fairly commonly (and even officially, at times) styled themselves as "Assyrian Orthodox" until at least the 1950s. And, until 1999, one would still occasionally encounter its usage in the names of some of its parishes, e.g., St. Mary's Assyrian Orthodox Church in Worcester, MA, its second parish in the US. However, confusian with the pre-Chalcedonian Assyrians was taking its toll and the Syriac hierarchy wanted to get past that.

The change of the Worcester parish's name to St. Mary's Syrian Orthodox Church was the subject of much rancor, resulted in the loss of some parishoners, and was finally effected only after the direct intervention of the Syriac Orthodox Patriarch, His Holiness Mor Ignatius Zakka I Iwas. This despite the fact that Mor Ignatius had already addressed the issue in an Encyclical issued almost 20 years earlier.

I am fairly certain that the Assyrian Orthodox Church of the Virgin Mary in Paramus, NJ, successor to the first Syriac parish in America, is the only Syriac/Syrian Orthodox one in which the older styling is still extant. (The issue of "trustee" ownership has a part in this and has allowed that parish to effectively refuse to do His Holiness' bidding in regard to renaming.)


(It is still the practice of the Armenian Apostolic Church to refer to the Syrian Orthodox as "Assyrian Orthodox", for reasons that are unclear to me.)

Albeit the transition from "Assyrian" to "Syrian" was not effected easily, the right of the Syriacs to use "Syrian Orthodox", their chosen alternative to the abandoned usage of "Assyrian" was much more problematic. The Syrian Orthodox of the Eastern Orthodox Communion were not ready to give up their favored terminology without a fight.

Ultimately, the question of who could legitimately use the designation "Syrian Orthodox Church of Antioch" was the subject of a civil court case between the Syriac and Antiochian Churches. The Syriacs won and, from that point onward, the Syrian Orthodox had to be content with "Antiochian" as a substitute.

The Russian-affiliated Assyrian Orthodox, whom I included primarily to make clear the diverse uses, were not a factor in any of these various conflicts. They never had a real presence in the US. They had one church in Baghdad which one author reported as accepting RO "dogma", but neither its jurisdiction or liturgy, although at least some of them were, for a time, induced to abandon their own liturgical praxis and accept the Liturgy of Saint John Chrysostom in Syriac. See pages 11 and 12 of A History of the Chaldean Mass.

A thesis done a few years ago at St. Vladimir's presents a nice summary of the history and the issues about the name, including the rationale that lay behind the Syriacs' original assumption of "Assyrian" as an identifier. See: Syriac Orthodox Church in North America

As to whether Assyrians, Chaldeans, ansd Syriacs are ethnically the same peoples, one can find a number of decidely different opinions on this - particularly among those who deem themselves Assyrian purists.

Many years,

Neil
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« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2014, 01:28:13 AM »

Thanks for that Smiley
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« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2014, 01:31:05 AM »

All 6 of our Oriental Orthodox bishops on the East Coast will be there for Q&A with the high school, college-aged, and young professional youth:

H.G. Bishop David (Coptic)
H.G. Bishop Makarios (Eritrean)
H.E. Archbishop Titus (Malankara-Syriac)
H.E. Archbishop Zekarias (Ethiopian)
H.E. Archbishop Khajag (Armenian)
H.E. Archbishop Vicken (Armenian)

I believe there are a couple missing from this list.   Tongue
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« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2014, 01:39:48 AM »

All 6 of our Oriental Orthodox bishops on the East Coast will be there for Q&A with the high school, college-aged, and young professional youth:

H.G. Bishop David (Coptic)
H.G. Bishop Makarios (Eritrean)
H.E. Archbishop Titus (Malankara-Syriac)
H.E. Archbishop Zekarias (Ethiopian)
H.E. Archbishop Khajag (Armenian)
H.E. Archbishop Vicken (Armenian)

I believe there are a couple missing from this list.   Tongue

I agree  Wink
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« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2014, 06:40:38 AM »

All 6 of our Oriental Orthodox bishops on the East Coast will be there for Q&A with the high school, college-aged, and young professional youth:

H.G. Bishop David (Coptic)
H.G. Bishop Makarios (Eritrean)
H.E. Archbishop Titus (Malankara-Syriac)
H.E. Archbishop Zekarias (Ethiopian)
H.E. Archbishop Khajag (Armenian)
H.E. Archbishop Vicken (Armenian)

I believe there are a couple missing from this list.   Tongue

Mor, do you think the new Patriarch will work to heal this schism? Has he had any positive interactions with your Church when he was the Bishop in the US?
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« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2014, 06:48:43 AM »

Thanks for that Smiley


Afwan. We stand on the shoulders of oc.net giants, my friend.
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« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2014, 02:47:47 PM »

Mor, do you think the new Patriarch will work to heal this schism? Has he had any positive interactions with your Church when he was the Bishop in the US?

Despite various official statements, I'm not sure how earnestly anyone on either side of the division will work toward healing it.  It sounds nice to say you want to heal a schism, to stand for unity, etc., but it requires sacrifice, and not everyone is willing to do that.  This is no slight toward His Holiness, mind you: you asked about him, but I'm offering an answer that applies to just about everyone involved.  I hope I am wrong.   

I'm unaware of any official interactions, positive or otherwise, between the former Archbishop Cyri Ephrem and our jurisdiction.  Most of the unofficial interactions of which I'm aware have been positive, but I'm not aware of many and I doubt there have been many of any real significance.     

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« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2014, 04:59:28 PM »

YES I LOVE THESE!!

Any information about the next concelebrated liturgy? I missed the last one.
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« Reply #9 on: July 29, 2014, 04:18:41 PM »

The date is drawing closer for this event.  I'm going, for sure.

http://www.scooch.org/2014/05/3r-annual-scooch-youth-conference/
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« Reply #10 on: July 29, 2014, 09:04:57 PM »

Please let us know how it goes.  I hope it's both fun and enriching.   Smiley
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« Reply #11 on: July 30, 2014, 10:58:11 AM »

I will.  And I encourage others on the East Coast - from all of our Oriental Orthodox Churches - to go as well.  Unfortunately, I don't think that many of our youth have an idea of what Oriental Orthodoxy means, let alone think of themselves as being "Oriental Orthodox", so they don't think an event like this applies to them because it doesn't say COPTIC or ARMENIAN or whatever in big, bold letters right out front.

Unfortunately, I think the attitude Mina describes in this post is almost universal with our Oriental Orthodox youth across the board:

I grew up with the sense that the Coptic Church is the one true Church.  I did not know we had sister churches until I went to college!!!  It was a moment of enlightenment for me.  It really drew me to try to understand what other "Orthodox" churches out there are.  One time, I went with a Coptic college youth group to some movie outing for "The Chronicles of Narnia", and I was having a convo with some of them, telling them about our sister Orthodox churches.  Some of them said things like, "Ya, but we're still the true Church" or "We're more Orthodox than they are" or "they don't fast as strictly as we do."

We each think of our individual church (Coptic, Armenian, whatever) as being a Universal Church like the EO or the RC consider themselves to be.  Or worse yet, we put our sister Oriental Orthodox Churches in the same category that we put everyone from Trad Catholics to Snake Handlers in: Christians, but "not us".  This has to change.  I hope conferences like this - and better education in each of our churches - can get things moving in the right direction.

I have hope that the message is getting through.  I've noticed at least one youth wrote an great blog post about it:

http://stupidityandhumility.blogspot.com/2014_06_01_archive.html

I love what she wrote.  I encourage every Oriental Orthodox Christian reading this not only to come themselves if they can, but to promote this conference as much as they can.  Our youth need to become comfortable with thinking of themselves as Oriental Orthodox, especially as they live in the "Lands of Immigration" longer and the linguistic boundaries that separate them become less pronounced and divisive.

I'm hoping for another Addis Adaba Conference sometime soon!  Smiley

http://www.scooch.org/about/about-addis-ababa/addis-ababa-conference-of-1965/
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« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2014, 08:24:36 AM »

We each think of our individual church (Coptic, Armenian, whatever) as being a Universal Church like the EO or the RC consider themselves to be.  Or worse yet, we put our sister Oriental Orthodox Churches in the same category that we put everyone from Trad Catholics to Snake Handlers in: Christians, but "not us".

It's not worse, it's the natural consequence of the previous statement.

Also, I think this is part of the reason many are reluctant to believe in the exclusive truth of Orthodoxy, because this is scoffed at as implying that "only Egyptians will go to heaven". In fact, I have never once heard a member of the clergy directly proclaim that Orthodoxy is the exclusive truth, for fear that it will offend some (read: a lot) of people. In short, our faith has been reduced to culture, and thus it's OK to be Catholic or Protestant because that's just the "Christian" faith expressed in your own culture. Communing in a Protestant church or in a Catholic Church becomes an intercultural experience, as opposed to bordering on apostasy. And I'm sure AN can list other things that go on in our churches that are seen and justified as intercultural experiences.

[sarcasm]Of course Coptic Orthodoxy is ever so slightly better because of "out of Egypt I called my son" and the blood of the martyrs and all that stuff, but who am I to say that my denomination is more right than yours when we're all sinners and, you know, God is love, and so he's not fussy like those (very few in number by now, as we have run a very successful extermination campaign, or at least made them aware that they should shut up or else) arrogant and stubborn old Egyptian uncles who think that we have the only way to God, when God's heart is open to all, regardless of denomination.[/sarcasm]
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« Reply #13 on: July 31, 2014, 11:23:13 AM »

It's not worse, it's the natural consequence of the previous statement.

True!  It all derives from a misapprehension of Orthodox ecclesiology.  But I think that the outgrowth is even more objectionable than the germ which spawned it because the implication then becomes that adherence to Orthodox Faith and practice is inconsequential next to "Copticity".  If one adheres strictly to Orthodoxy but is not Coptic, one is somehow deficient, and our perfectly Orthodox Ethiopian, Armenian, Indian, Syriac, and Eritrean brothers and sisters are reduced to the same level as heterodox Christians with whom we do not share communion merely because they aren't Coptic.

Meanwhile, Copts who see nothing wrong with making Rick Warren books and Evangelical/Charismatic "praise & worship" songs a part of the corporate life of our Church are - by virtue of being Coptic - good to go!  In short, the advocates of such an approach are every bit as ethnocentric and arrogant as the stubborn uncles they wish to chastise.  The only difference is, at least the uncles, however muddled with culture their approach might be, are interested in the preservation of Orthodox Faith and practice, while the "progressive" youth drop their treasures in the mud while reaching out to grasp the worthless trinkets offered by the mega-church hucksters.

And if a non-Egyptian member of the Coptic Church should dare to disagree with those "progressive" servants enamored of the flash of Evangelicalism...well...they must be trying to compensate for the deficiency of being non-Egyptian by trying to be "more Orthodox than the Orthodox" as if Orthodox and Egyptian mean precisely the same thing, no matter what the Egyptian actually believes.

Also, I think this is part of the reason many are reluctant to believe in the exclusive truth of Orthodoxy, because this is scoffed at as implying that "only Egyptians will go to heaven". In fact, I have never once heard a member of the clergy directly proclaim that Orthodoxy is the exclusive truth, for fear that it will offend some (read: a lot) of people. In short, our faith has been reduced to culture, and thus it's OK to be Catholic or Protestant because that's just the "Christian" faith expressed in your own culture. Communing in a Protestant church or in a Catholic Church becomes an intercultural experience, as opposed to bordering on apostasy.

You're perfectly correct.  And this is precisely the argument advanced by those who wish to Protestantize our Church.  The shame of it is, it is easily refuted, but as you've indicated, many are afraid of doing so for fear of "offending" the folks who - totally missing the point - complain that the Catholics should be invited to celebrate at the altar with us at the next Oriental Orthodox Concelebrated Liturgy.  To Tanta Whoever, Armenian, Catholic, Syriac, Ethiopian, Episcopalian...not Egyptian?...same thing!  All different cultural expressions of "Christianity".  The problem is, we're not casting our net wide enough!  Orthodoxy?  What's that?

Of course Coptic Orthodoxy is ever so slightly better because of "out of Egypt I called my son" and the blood of the martyrs and all that stuff, but who am I to say that my denomination is more right than yours when we're all sinners and, you know, God is love, and so he's not fussy like those (very few in number by now, as we have run a very successful extermination campaign, or at least made them aware that they should shut up or else) arrogant and stubborn old Egyptian uncles who think that we have the only way to God, when God's heart is open to all, regardless of denomination.

Thank goodness that Stavro at least has escaped the camps.  Grin
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« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2014, 01:40:52 AM »

It's not worse, it's the natural consequence of the previous statement.

True!  It all derives from a misapprehension of Orthodox ecclesiology.  But I think that the outgrowth is even more objectionable than the germ which spawned it because the implication then becomes that adherence to Orthodox Faith and practice is inconsequential next to "Copticity".  If one adheres strictly to Orthodoxy but is not Coptic, one is somehow deficient, and our perfectly Orthodox Ethiopian, Armenian, Indian, Syriac, and Eritrean brothers and sisters are reduced to the same level as heterodox Christians with whom we do not share communion merely because they aren't Coptic.

Meanwhile, Copts who see nothing wrong with making Rick Warren books and Evangelical/Charismatic "praise & worship" songs a part of the corporate life of our Church are - by virtue of being Coptic - good to go!  In short, the advocates of such an approach are every bit as ethnocentric and arrogant as the stubborn uncles they wish to chastise.  The only difference is, at least the uncles, however muddled with culture their approach might be, are interested in the preservation of Orthodox Faith and practice, while the "progressive" youth drop their treasures in the mud while reaching out to grasp the worthless trinkets offered by the mega-church hucksters.

And if a non-Egyptian member of the Coptic Church should dare to disagree with those "progressive" servants enamored of the flash of Evangelicalism...well...they must be trying to compensate for the deficiency of being non-Egyptian by trying to be "more Orthodox than the Orthodox" as if Orthodox and Egyptian mean precisely the same thing, no matter what the Egyptian actually believes.

Also, I think this is part of the reason many are reluctant to believe in the exclusive truth of Orthodoxy, because this is scoffed at as implying that "only Egyptians will go to heaven". In fact, I have never once heard a member of the clergy directly proclaim that Orthodoxy is the exclusive truth, for fear that it will offend some (read: a lot) of people. In short, our faith has been reduced to culture, and thus it's OK to be Catholic or Protestant because that's just the "Christian" faith expressed in your own culture. Communing in a Protestant church or in a Catholic Church becomes an intercultural experience, as opposed to bordering on apostasy.

You're perfectly correct.  And this is precisely the argument advanced by those who wish to Protestantize our Church.  The shame of it is, it is easily refuted, but as you've indicated, many are afraid of doing so for fear of "offending" the folks who - totally missing the point - complain that the Catholics should be invited to celebrate at the altar with us at the next Oriental Orthodox Concelebrated Liturgy.  To Tanta Whoever, Armenian, Catholic, Syriac, Ethiopian, Episcopalian...not Egyptian?...same thing!  All different cultural expressions of "Christianity".  The problem is, we're not casting our net wide enough!  Orthodoxy?  What's that?

Of course Coptic Orthodoxy is ever so slightly better because of "out of Egypt I called my son" and the blood of the martyrs and all that stuff, but who am I to say that my denomination is more right than yours when we're all sinners and, you know, God is love, and so he's not fussy like those (very few in number by now, as we have run a very successful extermination campaign, or at least made them aware that they should shut up or else) arrogant and stubborn old Egyptian uncles who think that we have the only way to God, when God's heart is open to all, regardless of denomination.

Thank goodness that Stavro at least has escaped the camps.  Grin

Noooooo AN you don't get it!!!! it's not just about being Egyptian, it's about being Coptic!!! Although you personally are of course not Egyptian you have been baptised into the Coptic faith by the grace of God and Abdel Fatah El-Sisi, and thus are now Coptic. How dare you make a straw man of my argument and say that everything not Egyptian is the same!!!! I never said that!  How dare you abuse the love the Coptic church has shown you by making you an honorary Egyptian = an honorary (not real, mind you) member of the body of Christ (of course everyone knows that non-Egyptians can't actually become Coptic, because the Egyptian and Coptic mean the same thing).* Yeah I know that you want to get technical and say that Coptic means Egyptian and it's precisely the same thing, but that's just getting Pharisaical (and if you accuse me of just having contradicted myself, watch out because I can label that Pharisaical too, master rhetorician that I am), focusing on these little details, that of course we know loving Jesus doesn't care about - all he cares about is love because "God is love", and I don't want to embarrass you by quoting 1 Corinthians on love cos then it's well and truly QED.

*the main purpose of converts in the church is not for the salvation of more souls, but to seem like we do mission, so that our youth can feel that they're in a living true active church of Christ, not a dead church obsessed with rituals which aren't suited to the 21st century and modern technology which we MUST adopt (of course we still do these rituals to avoid excommunication, but we try - as much as we can - not to think about them much. A quick liturgy helps with this. Unfortunately Satan is very active against the church and keeps sending overly rigid - and probably self-righteous - people to try to stop us, especially since the departure of our holy father ). Take careful note: attracting youth (salvation is an optional bonus) > salvation of non-Egyptians, but thank God we can usually kill 2 birds with 1 stone, unless the converts start getting argumentative. And of course when we have a few token Anglo Saxons in our church, our youth will feel less Egyptian in our churches and thus have a lesser desire to attend Protestant churches (the evolutionary pinnacle of all churches, true active churches of service, which God willing the Coptic Church in the diaspora will soon rival), and thus will remain in the Coptic church. At this point, you may ask, given all you have stated before, why is it important for them to stay in the Coptic church? And I will, reluctantly, and with heavy heart, have to excuse myself, as I have to go and give my fifth youth meeting talk for the day at the Xtreme Love Youth group, which is specially tailored by our very talented "youth servants" to provide an awesome experience for males aged 18.25 years of age to 18.3 years of age. It is a completely different talk with a very different emphasis to the one I gave this morning, this time tailored to males of 18.3 to 18.35 years if age. Side note: this is one of the weaknesses of the Eucharist, in that it's not tailored to the youth.  Although we try to encourage most of our elderly congregants to attend during the week, some of them are brazen enough to attend on Sunday, in plain sight of the youth! Of course we never tire to educate the youth about loving everyone regardless of age, but this is again another instance of "the letter kills but the spirit gives life". We don't mean it literally, it's just that we have noticed - extremely connected to the youth as we are - that whenever we talk about love, it just makes the youth FEEL really good. And when we bellow that love is not a feeling, but an action - they get even more excited, and will be back for more in tomorrow night's meeting. As for the answer to your question, I will leave your imagination to run wild.

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Note: the above is a satirical parody, and is mostly an extreme exaggeration, although some parts represent a slight exaggeration
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« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2014, 01:13:58 PM »

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Thank goodness that Stavro at least has escaped the camps.

 Smiley I am setting up my own camp.

The idea of a youth conference for the Orthodox churches is a good one. The estrangement, not the identity, between the ethnic branches of the Church will be hopefully dissolved.

But does it help to have every ethnic church represented by their ethnic bishop and priests, who serve their ethnic community in the same geographical area? This is not unity. 

Quote
Although we try to encourage most of our elderly congregants to attend during the week, some of them are brazen enough to attend on Sunday, in plain sight of the youth!

 Cheesy

But you need them during the week, because no one else will attend and you will miss at least the deacon part of the liturgy. So how do you lure them in the middle of the week, while intimidate them enough to stop coming on Sunday? A paradox.

Here is how we solved the problem of Sunday senior intruders over here:

Mission churches are for hip youth with cool priests.

The rest of churches are for the seniors and other "non-cool" categories of believers, such as FOB's and boring, tasbeha / liturgy youth.   

If they complain, you turn to the piece of wisdom by the late 13th Apostle, Athanasius of the 20th century, Golden mouth and pen:

" A church without youth is a church without future."

Which means, that the rest of the congregation are not relevant to the future of the church. Note also that the Lord Christ is replaced by "youth" in this quote, for it is evident that the only future any Church has is in Christ, by Christ and through Christ.
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« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2014, 07:23:32 PM »


Noooooo AN you don't get it!!!! it's not just about being Egyptian, it's about being Coptic!!! Although you personally are of course not Egyptian you have been baptised into the Coptic faith by the grace of God and Abdel Fatah El-Sisi, and thus are now Coptic. How dare you make a straw man of my argument and say that everything not Egyptian is the same!!!! I never said that!  How dare you abuse the love the Coptic church has shown you by making you an honorary Egyptian = an honorary (not real, mind you) member of the body of Christ (of course everyone knows that non-Egyptians can't actually become Coptic, because the Egyptian and Coptic mean the same thing).* Yeah I know that you want to get technical and say that Coptic means Egyptian and it's precisely the same thing, but that's just getting Pharisaical (and if you accuse me of just having contradicted myself, watch out because I can label that Pharisaical too, master rhetorician that I am), focusing on these little details, that of course we know loving Jesus doesn't care about - all he cares about is love because "God is love", and I don't want to embarrass you by quoting 1 Corinthians on love cos then it's well and truly QED.

*the main purpose of converts in the church is not for the salvation of more souls, but to seem like we do mission, so that our youth can feel that they're in a living true active church of Christ, not a dead church obsessed with rituals which aren't suited to the 21st century and modern technology which we MUST adopt (of course we still do these rituals to avoid excommunication, but we try - as much as we can - not to think about them much. A quick liturgy helps with this. Unfortunately Satan is very active against the church and keeps sending overly rigid - and probably self-righteous - people to try to stop us, especially since the departure of our holy father ). Take careful note: attracting youth (salvation is an optional bonus) > salvation of non-Egyptians, but thank God we can usually kill 2 birds with 1 stone, unless the converts start getting argumentative. And of course when we have a few token Anglo Saxons in our church, our youth will feel less Egyptian in our churches and thus have a lesser desire to attend Protestant churches (the evolutionary pinnacle of all churches, true active churches of service, which God willing the Coptic Church in the diaspora will soon rival), and thus will remain in the Coptic church. At this point, you may ask, given all you have stated before, why is it important for them to stay in the Coptic church? And I will, reluctantly, and with heavy heart, have to excuse myself, as I have to go and give my fifth youth meeting talk for the day at the Xtreme Love Youth group, which is specially tailored by our very talented "youth servants" to provide an awesome experience for males aged 18.25 years of age to 18.3 years of age. It is a completely different talk with a very different emphasis to the one I gave this morning, this time tailored to males of 18.3 to 18.35 years if age. Side note: this is one of the weaknesses of the Eucharist, in that it's not tailored to the youth.  Although we try to encourage most of our elderly congregants to attend during the week, some of them are brazen enough to attend on Sunday, in plain sight of the youth! Of course we never tire to educate the youth about loving everyone regardless of age, but this is again another instance of "the letter kills but the spirit gives life". We don't mean it literally, it's just that we have noticed - extremely connected to the youth as we are - that whenever we talk about love, it just makes the youth FEEL really good. And when we bellow that love is not a feeling, but an action - they get even more excited, and will be back for more in tomorrow night's meeting. As for the answer to your question, I will leave your imagination to run wild.

---
Note: the above is a satirical parody, and is mostly an extreme exaggeration, although some parts represent a slight exaggeration

^ POM!!!  Grin

The wild olive branch grafted onto Israel Ha-ka-Ptah stands chastened and rebuked!

Smiley I am setting up my own camp.

I can see you now, strutting about the parapets.  Amon Goeth meets Amon Ra!  Grin

But does it help to have every ethnic church represented by their ethnic bishop and priests, who serve their ethnic community in the same geographical area? This is not unity. 

True.  But it's a realistic step in the right direction given our present situation.

Mission churches are for hip youth with cool priests.

The rest of churches are for the seniors and other "non-cool" categories of believers, such as FOB's and boring, tasbeha / liturgy youth. 

Yeah, Coptic "high church" and Coptic "low church", that's the ticket!  Get in where you fit in, baby!
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« Reply #17 on: August 10, 2014, 04:26:32 PM »

I'm going! PM me if you want to chill and orthodox together.
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« Reply #18 on: August 10, 2014, 06:20:20 PM »

I'm going! PM me if you want to chill and orthodox together.

One week to go!
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« Reply #19 on: August 19, 2014, 11:58:34 AM »

Some short video clips of the event were posted on the SCOOCH FB page.

https://www.facebook.com/officialSCOOCH
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« Reply #20 on: August 19, 2014, 12:20:55 PM »

Awesome.  I loved how His Grace Anba David answered the question about whether or not it was okay to pray in a heterodox church because of language issues with your own church.

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Don't leave your Church.  If you know the true Church and the true Faith you will never leave the Church...try to find solutions...but never leave the Church because this is the Orthodox Church.
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« Reply #21 on: August 19, 2014, 12:57:08 PM »

Some short video clips of the event were posted on the SCOOCH FB page.

https://www.facebook.com/officialSCOOCH

If you watch the video of the Coptic choir chanting "Shere ne Maria" "Hail to you Mary", I'm in there. You can't see me too well until the guy with the microphone moves over but nonetheless, enjoy.
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« Reply #22 on: August 19, 2014, 01:05:59 PM »

Maybe it's my computer, but that one won't load for me.  Either that, or you jinxed it!  Wink
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« Reply #23 on: August 19, 2014, 01:08:28 PM »

Maybe it's my computer, but that one won't load for me.  Either that, or you jinxed it!  Wink

It worked fine yesterday! Aw man haha Wink
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« Reply #24 on: August 19, 2014, 01:13:12 PM »

Is it working for you now?  Maybe you guys were too Coptastic for the server to handle.
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