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Author Topic: Ordinations  (Read 418 times) Average Rating: 0
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Chrismated
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« on: May 30, 2014, 10:39:57 AM »

Blessings;
I have read that ROCOR is requiring the Western Rite Clergy that have recently come into their fold, to be re-ordained, by the Eastern Rite Ceremonies. Also, they are being required to be taught the Eastern Rite, if they do not know it. I understand the purpose of this is so that when the minority WR Clergy are at functions or ROCOR, and the ER is being used, they will be able to participate fully, and understand fully what is being said and done. To me, this is a good Idea. I read on another site, that this ordination recently took place in Omaha, NE, with the Bishop of the Western Diocese officiating with the help of two other ER Priests from outside of Omaha. Also that the Priests are to be instructed in the ER very soon. I have read of several other places around the country where this is happening.
Has this happened in any of your areas?
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Justin Kissel
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« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2014, 10:43:09 AM »

Re-ordained? Huh
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Agabus
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« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2014, 11:21:59 AM »

Blessings;
I have read that ROCOR is requiring the Western Rite Clergy that have recently come into their fold, to be re-ordained, by the Eastern Rite Ceremonies. Also, they are being required to be taught the Eastern Rite, if they do not know it. I understand the purpose of this is so that when the minority WR Clergy are at functions or ROCOR, and the ER is being used, they will be able to participate fully, and understand fully what is being said and done. To me, this is a good Idea. I read on another site, that this ordination recently took place in Omaha, NE, with the Bishop of the Western Diocese officiating with the help of two other ER Priests from outside of Omaha. Also that the Priests are to be instructed in the ER very soon. I have read of several other places around the country where this is happening.
Has this happened in any of your areas?
I believe the issue is not WR verses ER, but that under the former leadership of the ROCOR WR Vicarate, some WR ordinations were not done correctly. It's not re-ordination so much as proper ordination.

I could be wrong.
« Last Edit: May 30, 2014, 11:22:58 AM by Agabus » Logged

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podkarpatska
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« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2014, 01:33:19 PM »

Coming from a family history where my ancestors were Eastern Catholics in Slovakia for centuries, the idea that the WRO clergy must be 'trained' in the Byzantine Liturgy is offensive to me as it indicates that the WR is not equal to the ER in the minds of the ROCOR. Even the Romans in their tortuous relations with the Greek Catholics have not been so brazen as to require the reverse. While there are bi-ritual Catholic priests, most are not - be they Latin or Eastern Rite.

Here is Palm Sunday in the Greek Catholic Cathedral of Muchachevo, Ukraine. I think the Latin bishop is the Roman Catholic bishop of Uzghorod, Ukraine. He and the Greek Catholic Bishop are vested with equal dignity in their own tradition.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcYBySGi6EQ

I would think that this is what a properly reunited church would LOOK like - by LOOK like I simply mean 'look' - I am not implying any support for 'uniatism' so please do not jump on me.


« Last Edit: May 30, 2014, 01:34:11 PM by podkarpatska » Logged
Nephi
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« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2014, 01:41:18 PM »

the idea that the WRO clergy must be 'trained' in the Byzantine Liturgy is offensive to me as it indicates that the WR is not equal to the ER in the minds of the ROCOR.

Agreed.

They should definitely be properly catechized, i.e. make sure they're actually Orthodox and not just vagante refugees, but I see no reason why they would need to be trained in the Byzantine Rite short of some sense of ER-superiority.
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Agabus
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« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2014, 02:39:32 PM »

Coming from a family history where my ancestors were Eastern Catholics in Slovakia for centuries, the idea that the WRO clergy must be 'trained' in the Byzantine Liturgy is offensive to me as it indicates that the WR is not equal to the ER in the minds of the ROCOR. Even the Romans in their tortuous relations with the Greek Catholics have not been so brazen as to require the reverse. While there are bi-ritual Catholic priests, most are not - be they Latin or Eastern Rite.

Here is Palm Sunday in the Greek Catholic Cathedral of Muchachevo, Ukraine. I think the Latin bishop is the Roman Catholic bishop of Uzghorod, Ukraine. He and the Greek Catholic Bishop are vested with equal dignity in their own tradition.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcYBySGi6EQ

I would think that this is what a properly reunited church would LOOK like - by LOOK like I simply mean 'look' - I am not implying any support for 'uniatism' so please do not jump on me.
FWIW, let me jump back into this thread and and say I agree with this.

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« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2014, 04:24:24 PM »

If I am not mistaken, the majority, though not all of WR Clergy being now (Properly) Ordained as ROCOR Clergy, are leaving Anglican backgrounds and served as Clergy in Anglican Churches. If you stop using the filioque, make a few changes to the BCP and rename your Liturgy after St. Tikon, and include a sentence of veneration for the Theotokos, and Saints, are you suddenly Orthodox? I don't doubt that many of these Clergy are Orthodox, but I can understand how some ROCOR Bishops may have had some hesitation in just accepting a group as a whole, without really knowing them well. What went down after the "Beacon Group" incident, will work out much better for all as it is being handled now, in my humble opinion. Some may have to swallow their pride and let God's will be done, for the good of the Church. There should be no doubts in anyones minds, after the current session of ordinations and teaching of the ER (nothing wrong in learning this), that those who have humbled themselves for the Lord Jesus Christ's sake, and for His Church, are indeed Orthodox WR members of ROCOR.
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podkarpatska
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« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2014, 10:47:50 AM »

If I am not mistaken, the majority, though not all of WR Clergy being now (Properly) Ordained as ROCOR Clergy, are leaving Anglican backgrounds and served as Clergy in Anglican Churches. If you stop using the filioque, make a few changes to the BCP and rename your Liturgy after St. Tikon, and include a sentence of veneration for the Theotokos, and Saints, are you suddenly Orthodox? I don't doubt that many of these Clergy are Orthodox, but I can understand how some ROCOR Bishops may have had some hesitation in just accepting a group as a whole, without really knowing them well. What went down after the "Beacon Group" incident, will work out much better for all as it is being handled now, in my humble opinion. Some may have to swallow their pride and let God's will be done, for the good of the Church. There should be no doubts in anyones minds, after the current session of ordinations and teaching of the ER (nothing wrong in learning this), that those who have humbled themselves for the Lord Jesus Christ's sake, and for His Church, are indeed Orthodox WR members of ROCOR.

One spent a few years at Jordanville,was a grad of Christ the Savior in Johnstown, ordained by Met. Antony I think( or Met. Nicholas shortly before his repose) , assigned to an ACROD parish and released a year later at his request to the ROCOR WR. He would not have had his ordination questioned. If they did, that'd be a big time issue.
« Last Edit: May 31, 2014, 10:48:53 AM by podkarpatska » Logged
Peter J
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« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2014, 08:56:30 PM »

Coming from a family history where my ancestors were Eastern Catholics in Slovakia for centuries, the idea that the WRO clergy must be 'trained' in the Byzantine Liturgy is offensive to me as it indicates that the WR is not equal to the ER in the minds of the ROCOR. Even the Romans in their tortuous relations with the Greek Catholics have not been so brazen as to require the reverse.

Haven't even come close (unless I'm very badly mistaken).
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