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Offline Stavro

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Origin of the Turks
« on: April 13, 2005, 01:22:13 AM »
Dear all ,
I have been lately searching for some sources about the origin of the Turks and what race they belong to. One of the studies by a famous egyptian writer, that was not circulated in the arabic nations, claims that the Turks are the descendents of Tartar or Monguls who mingled with their conquered nations. Does anybody know more about this topic ?

In that day there will be an altar to the LORD in the heart of Egypt, and a monument to the LORD at its border. (Isaiah 19:19)

" God forbid I should see the face of Judah or listen to his blasphemy" (Gerontius, Archmanidrite of the monastery of St. Melania)

Offline optxogokcoc

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Re: Origin of the Turks
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2005, 01:26:18 AM »
Why don't you go to WWW.GOOGLE.COM and then type into the search box ORIGIN OF THE TURKS... its a miracle what will happen :)

Offline Elisha

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Re: Origin of the Turks
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2005, 01:38:32 AM »
[Gollum]Evil, tricksy Turks![/Gollum]

Offline Stavro

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Re: Origin of the Turks
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2005, 01:45:50 AM »
Wow ....what a miracle indeed .... Thanks St.Google ...

I am not looking for an internet site, I am looking for a book that presents the history of the Turks, an academic reference and not an internet site that cannot be fully trusted in the world of research. Thanks anyways.
In that day there will be an altar to the LORD in the heart of Egypt, and a monument to the LORD at its border. (Isaiah 19:19)

" God forbid I should see the face of Judah or listen to his blasphemy" (Gerontius, Archmanidrite of the monastery of St. Melania)

Offline CyberSponge

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Re: Origin of the Turks
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2005, 01:54:10 AM »
Wow ....what a miracle indeed .... Thanks St.Google ...

I am not looking for an internet site, I am looking for a book that presents the history of the Turks, an academic reference and not an internet site that cannot be fully trusted in the world of research. Thanks anyways. 

browse some of those sites and see if they have a bibliography or reference list....

Offline Robert

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Re: Origin of the Turks
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2005, 03:14:21 AM »

Offline Ntinos

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Re: Origin of the Turks
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2005, 04:08:00 AM »
Their origin is from Turkmenistan deep in Asia, and even deeper. You can't actually say that 'they came from there' since they are a barbaric horde that kept moving. But since their distant cousins are the Turkomans, you can easily say that they came from the greater region below Kazakhstan, which is where I would like to see them return again.

Offline Stavro

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Re: Origin of the Turks
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2005, 04:58:54 AM »
Thanks Ntinos,
one comment though regarding the last sentence of your post:
Quote
But since their distant cousins are the Turkomans, you can easily say that they came from the greater region below Kazakhstan, which is where I would like to see them return again.
I would like that the arabs return to the Arabic Penninsula as well and that the worst events of history be reversed, yet it is very unlikely. The next best thing is equal citizen rights, which seems never to happen. The book "Blight of Asia" presents horrific data about the systematic extermination of christians in Asia Minor, and it will continue because masacres are denied and go unnoticed. It is pathetic that a nation with Turkey's record will be admitted to the EU.
In that day there will be an altar to the LORD in the heart of Egypt, and a monument to the LORD at its border. (Isaiah 19:19)

" God forbid I should see the face of Judah or listen to his blasphemy" (Gerontius, Archmanidrite of the monastery of St. Melania)

Offline Ntinos

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Re: Origin of the Turks
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2005, 05:19:48 AM »
Who knows, it might happen... soon!

Offline Stavro

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Re: Origin of the Turks
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2005, 05:43:46 AM »
Is this a prophecy or a revelation by a holy saint or a certain interpretation of scripture ? 
In that day there will be an altar to the LORD in the heart of Egypt, and a monument to the LORD at its border. (Isaiah 19:19)

" God forbid I should see the face of Judah or listen to his blasphemy" (Gerontius, Archmanidrite of the monastery of St. Melania)

Offline MBZ

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Re: Origin of the Turks
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2005, 07:39:13 AM »
Hi all!

Try The Ottoman Centuries: The Rise and Fall of the Turkish Empire by Lord Kinross (see http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0688080936/qid=1113392028/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-2520486-9396841?v=glance&s=books).

I have it at home (along with Stephen Runciman's Byzantine Civilization) & I find it very good. He discusses the origins of the Turks (not surprisingly) in the first chapter.

Quote
Evil, tricksy Turks

:D

Be well!

MBZ
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Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: Origin of the Turks
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2005, 07:51:25 AM »
For a good general introduction to the Turkic peoples:

Rene Grousset's The Empire of the Steppes: A History of Central Asia

Indispensible, IMO.
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Offline Salpy

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Re: Origin of the Turks
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2005, 08:36:30 PM »
I know that the Turkish language is neither Indo-European nor Semitic. Thus it is unrelated to other Middle Eastern languages, such as Persian, Kurdish and Armenian (Indo-European) or Arabic and Hebrew (Semitic.) According to an old linguistics textbook of mine (An Introduction to Language, by Fromkin and Rodman, 1978) it is an Altaic language and is related to Mongolian and Korean. That could give some insight to the Turks' origins.

Offline Ntinos

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Re: Origin of the Turks
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2005, 02:59:23 PM »
Is this a prophecy or a revelation by a holy saint or a certain interpretation of scripture ? 

Of a Saint not yet canonised because he died in 1994: Elder Paissios.

Offline Stavro

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Re: Origin of the Turks
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2005, 03:29:28 PM »


Of a Saint not yet canonised because he died in 1994: Elder Paissios.
This is interesting. Would you please, whenever you get the time, outline his prophecy or his interpretations.
Thank you.
In that day there will be an altar to the LORD in the heart of Egypt, and a monument to the LORD at its border. (Isaiah 19:19)

" God forbid I should see the face of Judah or listen to his blasphemy" (Gerontius, Archmanidrite of the monastery of St. Melania)

Offline Ntinos

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Re: Origin of the Turks
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2005, 04:15:39 PM »
Actually, he used to say it very often. Can you read Greek? I have lots of material in Greek, but I can't seem to find an English translation. Or I could translate it myself, but I don't know if it would be any good.

Offline Ebor

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Re: Origin of the Turks
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2005, 04:56:48 PM »
Dear all ,
I have been lately searching for some sources about the origin of the Turks and what race they belong to.


Ummmm, the Human Race? 

I know what's wanted is more like ethnic origin, but they are still Human Beings

Ebor
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Offline yBeayf

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Re: Origin of the Turks
« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2005, 05:41:55 PM »
The Turks are an Altaic people (going by language), and so are related to a whole host of other peoples -- Turkmens, Kazakhs, Uyghurs, Azaris, Tatars, Kyrgyz, Uzbeks, Mongols, Tyvans, Yakuts, Evenks, and Manchurians, to name a few. The Altaic language group is incredibly widespread, and also fairly homogeneous, as language families go; a Yakut and a Turk can make themselves understood to each other with not much effort. It's quite possible Japanese and Korean should also be classified under the Altaic language family, and Finno-Ugric (including such languages as Finnish, Estonian, Hungarian, and Saami) may also be related to the Altaic languages.

The Altaic peoples likely originated in the Altai mountains (hence the name), and their main cultural distinction historically is that they have been nomadic herders in the plains and mountains of central Asia, as contrasted with the Indo-European peoples, whose originated as herdsmen like the Altaics but borrowed farming at an early date from the Semitic peoples and have been agriculturalists ever since.

Offline Stavro

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Re: Origin of the Turks
« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2005, 08:09:03 PM »



Ummmm, the Human Race?

I know what's wanted is more like ethnic origin, but they are still Human Beings

Ebor
They are, without doubt. Is the word "race" now politically incorrect ? Sorry if I am not updated on the latest western politically correct expression. I use race and ethnic group to serve the same meaning, without any deragetory intention.

Thanks for the contribution of all of you.
Ntinos,
do not bother translating. I will find it in English in a way or another, and maybe it is available in Arabic in EO churches in Egypt, if it is a famous prophecy. Thank you.
In that day there will be an altar to the LORD in the heart of Egypt, and a monument to the LORD at its border. (Isaiah 19:19)

" God forbid I should see the face of Judah or listen to his blasphemy" (Gerontius, Archmanidrite of the monastery of St. Melania)

Offline Kizzy

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Re: Origin of the Turks
« Reply #19 on: April 14, 2005, 11:35:22 PM »
Dear all ,
I have been lately searching for some sources about the origin of the Turks and what race they belong to. One of the studies by a famous egyptian writer, that was not circulated in the arabic nations, claims that the Turks are the descendents of Tartar or Monguls who mingled with their conquered nations. Does anybody know more about this topic ?

 
Stavro, if you are really interested in research on this, then I think you might want to look at the online library www.questia.com.  I came across it for my son's school research .. It is outstanding.. There is a fee, but it is not exorbitant.  Some of the upfront work you can do for free.  Just plug in the words into their search engine and you can see how many books they have online that cover the topic...

BTW, my late grandparents were from Turkey.  My grandmother never knew her age because the Turks burned the church that housed her birth records.. She called them the men from the mountains...
I wish she was alive now... I was not interested in this stuff as a young kid.. but know we could talkwith her for hours!
In XC, Kizzy

In XC, Kizzy

Offline Stavro

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Re: Origin of the Turks
« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2005, 12:02:13 AM »
Dear Kizzy,
thank you for the wonderful tip. It seems that many have senior relative who have witnessed the cruelity of the Turks firsthand. May your Grandma rest in peace. I have met a christian in college who held the Turkish citizenship, and he definitely was not happy about the status of christians under the turkish yoke.
I became interested in the history of christians in Asia Minor since the fall of Constantinople from reading an excellent book :The Great Church in Captivity by Runciman, but little was mentioned about the story of the Turks. One pattern in history is steady : Great civilizations fall to uncivilized groups for unknow reasons, usually followed by an immense loss of culture and civilization .... very sad .... 

Peace.
In that day there will be an altar to the LORD in the heart of Egypt, and a monument to the LORD at its border. (Isaiah 19:19)

" God forbid I should see the face of Judah or listen to his blasphemy" (Gerontius, Archmanidrite of the monastery of St. Melania)

Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Origin of the Turks
« Reply #21 on: December 07, 2011, 06:03:20 PM »
According to the Islamic tradition, Muhammad bin Abdallah bin Quraish said that the Ya'juj and Ma'juj (Gog and Magog) were related to Turks:

(Until, when Ya`juj and Ma`juj are let loose,) We have already mentioned that they are from the progeny of Adam, upon him be peace; they are also descents of Nuh through his son Yafith (Japheth), who was the father of the Turks, Turk referring to the group of them who were left behind the barrier which was built by Dhul-Qarnayn. http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2623&Itemid=76

The figure named "Dhul-Qarnayn" in the Qur'an most likely refers to Alexander the Great.
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Re: Origin of the Turks
« Reply #22 on: December 07, 2011, 10:17:48 PM »
« Last Edit: December 07, 2011, 10:19:15 PM by Gamliel »

Offline Hiwot

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Re: Origin of the Turks
« Reply #23 on: December 07, 2011, 11:24:40 PM »
According to the Islamic tradition, Muhammad bin Abdallah bin Quraish said that the Ya'juj and Ma'juj (Gog and Magog) were related to Turks:

(Until, when Ya`juj and Ma`juj are let loose,) We have already mentioned that they are from the progeny of Adam, upon him be peace; they are also descents of Nuh through his son Yafith (Japheth), who was the father of the Turks, Turk referring to the group of them who were left behind the barrier which was built by Dhul-Qarnayn. http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2623&Itemid=76

The figure named "Dhul-Qarnayn" in the Qur'an most likely refers to Alexander the Great.

LOL Theophilos , Ironic isnt it ?
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Offline Theophilos78

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Re: Origin of the Turks
« Reply #24 on: December 15, 2011, 09:05:42 AM »
Yes, it definitely is.  :D

However, some Turks are so attached to Islam and so naive that they do everything to affiliate Muhammad with Turks. I have come across some Muslim Turks who say that Muhammad was actually Turkish.  ;D
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