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Author Topic: Metal Music, Satanism, Sin  (Read 3445 times) Average Rating: 0
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Ntinos
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« on: April 12, 2005, 03:49:31 PM »

Hello everybody,
I would like your opinion on this issue. This Church was quit to condemn metal music (for obvious reasons, like sodomising Jesus, and things like that), with the main excuse is it being the cause of Satanism. Do we call listening to Metal Music a Sin, or just not being obedient to the Church?
There are lots of reasons why Metal Music isn't good for the human, but is it really a sin? Under which of the ten commandments does it fall?
Also, there seem to be metal/rock songs which are not offensive to Jesus, and are probably using a completely irrelevant subject in the lyrics. Does the prohibition include those as well?

May Jesus give you His blessings & His Love,
Ntinos
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« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2005, 05:26:17 PM »

If you recognize it as harmful to humans in general, then why bother listening to it?
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Ntinos
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« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2005, 06:02:11 PM »

It depends on the song.
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« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2005, 06:06:56 PM »

There is plenty of music falling under the classification of "metal" that is in no way satanic, and much metal is just as beautiful and complex as classical music. Check out some Therion or Opeth sometime...
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« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2005, 06:08:58 PM »

Well i must admit i do not believe all heavy metal music are harming humans.
Ok there are some songs including satanic messages but it would be uncorrect generalazing and saying all music is bad.

I agree though that people with weak mentality and spiritual character might get affected in a negative manner.
 
Those who seak evil will find out there easily its not that hard you know.
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Ntinos
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« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2005, 06:16:50 PM »

I agree... but is it a sin?

Also, do you know RPGs? (Role Playing Games)
Is it the same with metal music for them?
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« Reply #6 on: April 12, 2005, 07:07:52 PM »


Also, do you know RPGs? (Role Playing Games)


I have to admit, as others have pointed out, that all the interest with Fantasy owes gratitude to Tolkein for the LotR.  I have 40+ Forgotten Realms (AD&D) novels on my bookshelf.  I read LotR for the first time a few years ago and again somewhat more recently.  I have to admit that LotR was a lot more "dark and foreboding" than almost all of the Forgotten Realms "official" AD&D books.  Many of the FR books were actually light and whimsical (alla Piers Anthony).
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« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2005, 07:17:31 PM »

I am going to have to say it is bad for you, sinful, to listen to Heavy Metal even though it may not seem to be bad or Satanic. When I was an Atheist I listen to Slipknot, Rage Against the Machine, ICP, Cypress Hill, Dayton Avenue, Wu-Tang Clan, etc. Even though several of their songs are not filled with sinful lyrics and some are even mourning the decay of society does not make them any more appropriate. This type of music is far to evocative, sensual, and passionate particularly lust and anger. I would even caution people to not listen to too much classical music from the Romantic period. Hitler derived a great deal of pleasure and his demonic ideology from listening to Wagner and reading his works. Hitler even took up his vegetarian diet because Wagner was a vegetarian. Now I am not saying not to listen to Wagner but what I am saying is that it one should not get swept up in music too much and Rap/Heavy Metal is too evocative to be listened to at all without this happening.
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« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2005, 07:23:04 PM »

I am going to have to say it is bad for you, sinful, to listen to Heavy Metal even though it may not seem to be bad or Satanic. When I was an Atheist I listen to Slipknot, Rage Against the Machine, ICP, Cypress Hill, Dayton Avenue, Wu-Tang Clan, etc. Even though several of their songs are not filled with sinful lyrics and some are even mourning the decay of society does not make them any more appropriate. This type of music is far to evocative, sensual, and passionate particularly lust and anger. I would even caution people to not listen to too much classical music from the Romantic period. Hitler derived a great deal of pleasure and his demonic ideology from listening to Wagner and reading his works. Hitler even took up his vegetarian diet because Wagner was a vegetarian. Now I am not saying not to listen to Wagner but what I am saying is that it one should not get swept up in music too much and Rap/Heavy Metal is too evocative to be listened to at all without this happening.

Yeah, and one reason not too listen to too much of the "Contemporary Christian" stuff.  Besides being bad quality imitations of the original (not all, but a lot), the nature of said music can stir the passions.
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« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2005, 07:26:25 PM »

Music is just as emotive and expressive an art form as film or writing. I would suggest that if you are choosing to avoid movies with lots of sex, violence, and language, you might also choose to avoid music that instills the same things into your brain. Saying that music from the Romantic period is bad overall might be too much. An individual might choose to restrict their musical palatte if they find themselves unable to control themselves, but I think making any type of music out to be innately evil is erroneous. Then we might as well ONLY ever hear Gregorian (or Byzantine Wink) chant with Church lyrics, and ONLY read theological material, and ONLY watch films about the CHurch or look at iconography instead of other art, etc.
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« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2005, 07:42:19 PM »

  I like Rammstein.
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« Reply #11 on: April 12, 2005, 07:49:55 PM »

I like Rammstein.

SATAN WORSHIPPER!  Grin
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Ntinos
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« Reply #12 on: April 12, 2005, 07:51:57 PM »

I am going to have to say it is bad for you, sinful, to listen to Heavy Metal even though it may not seem to be bad or Satanic. When I was an Atheist I listen to Slipknot, Rage Against the Machine, ICP, Cypress Hill, Dayton Avenue, Wu-Tang Clan, etc. Even though several of their songs are not filled with sinful lyrics and some are even mourning the decay of society does not make them any more appropriate. This type of music is far to evocative, sensual, and passionate particularly lust and anger. I would even caution people to not listen to too much classical music from the Romantic period. Hitler derived a great deal of pleasure and his demonic ideology from listening to Wagner and reading his works. Hitler even took up his vegetarian diet because Wagner was a vegetarian. Now I am not saying not to listen to Wagner but what I am saying is that it one should not get swept up in music too much and Rap/Heavy Metal is too evocative to be listened to at all without this happening.

What I mean, is it something one must confess? Or just something one must steer clear off? It is my opinion right now that metal music is the cause for sin, not a sin itself.
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« Reply #13 on: April 12, 2005, 08:13:41 PM »

The big question is, is this having any effect on you?  Are you constantly thinking about sex, drugs, orgies, satan, satanism, burning down things, killing people, and human sacrifices and Barney?  If the answer to anything is yes, then stop, or ask your priest.  If not, and you just like jamming to it, and it still bugs you,  then ask your priest.  If Barney still comes up, then get the to a monastery!  Run!  NOW!  Make haste!  Run over people and repent later!   Grin

I joke, I joke.

Look, man.  I've been listening to Metallica, Blue Oyster Cult, Joe Satriani, Rammstein, and others for years.  No effects man.  Just added adrenaline when I weightlift and practice martial arts. 

If you dont want to spread any satanic thoughts and idiocys, I'd say get rid of Slayer, Manson, Electric Hellfire Club, Danzig, and Slipknot albums.  Dont do any good to fund these slabs.  Besides, they do spread pure hate in their messages. And satanism.  Just my thought on it.

Peace.       
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« Reply #14 on: April 12, 2005, 10:16:08 PM »

Quote
Saying that music from the Romantic period is bad overall might be too much.

Trust me I do not think it is bad. I love to listen to the Liebstod from Tristan und Isolde along with much else from Wagner. I also like to listen to Debussy, particularly Sirenes. I like Tchaikovsky, Mussorgsky, Puccini, etc. but it is not good to be caught up in this is what I am saying. Listening to music so that you can be moved to tears whenever you want or live in a Germanic mythological fantasy to avoid reality seems to be too much. But I also remember one of the first things Fr.Seraphim would do with young men who were in his care was get them to read Shakespaere, listen to classical music, etc. The classics and refined nature of this type of art often opens up a new and more morally stable world for people who have previously only been exposed to pop culture. The high ideals and values tend to lift the spirit in a way popular culture never can.

Quote
What I mean, is it something one must confess? Or just something one must steer clear off? It is my opinion right now that metal music is the cause for sin, not a sin itself.
I am not quite sure what you are saying? All sinful activity should be steered clear of as best as possible. But it is what is evoked in you which is sinful. If metal music is causing sin with the intention of doing so I would say that is sinful.

I just would say to you that I am different from a lot of you. I live a hedonistic life for a long time and I have a lot of bad memories that plague me almost every waking moment now. As I see indulgent, passionate, and hardcore popular music, particularly Rap and Metal, to be very dangerous and best to steer clear of. The other day I was with my brother and he plays rap music in his car whether I care or not. The lyrics are disgusting! explicit sex songs, outright hatred for femininity, machine guns, hateful lyrics, etc. All I can say it is far worse than the Gangsta Rap I grew up listening to: Junior M.A.F.I.A.,Tupac, Snoop Dogg, House of Pain, etc.
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« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2005, 11:25:19 AM »

I found this lecture by Fr.Seraphim to be the best advice on this issue

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FORMING YOUNG SOULS

"The child who has been exposed from his earliest years to good classical music, and has seen his soul being developed by it, will not be nearly as tempted by the crude rhythm and message of rock and other contemporary forms of pseudo-music as someone who has grown up without a musical education. Such a musical education, as several of the Optina Elders have said, refines the soul and prepares it for the reception of spiritual impressions.



The child who has been educated in good literature, drama, and poetry and has felt their effect on his soul -- that is, has really enjoyed them -- will not easily become an addict of contemporary movies and television programs and cheap novels that devastate the soul and take it away from the Christian path.



The child who has learned to see beauty in classical painting and sculpture will not easily be drawn into the perversity of contemporary art or be attracted by the garish products of modern advertising and pornography.



The child who knows something of the history of the world, especially in Christian times, and how other people have lived and thought, what mistakes and pitfalls people have fallen into by departing from God and His commandments, and what glorious and influential lives they have lived when they were faithful to Him, will be discerning about the life and philosophy of our own times and will not be inclined to follow the first new philosophy or way of life he encounters ...



In general, the person who is well acquainted with the best products of secular culture -- which in the West almost always have definite religious and Christian overtones -- has a much better chance of leading a normal, fruitful Orthodox* life than someone who knows only the popular culture of today. One who is converted to Orthodoxy straight from 'rock' culture, and in general anyone who thinks he can combine Orthodoxy with that kind of culture -- has much suffering to go through and a difficult road in life before he can become a truly serious Orthodox Christian who is capable of handing on his faith to others. Without this suffering, without the awareness, Orthodox parents will raise their children to be devoured by the contemporary world."
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« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2005, 12:48:14 PM »

I think any style of music can be "redeemed" (by that I do not mean slapping "Christian" lyrics onto it) and appropriated by Christian artists. Some styles will be more suitable than others, obviously. And for some Chrisitans, because of their background, listening to ANYTHING of a particular style may be wrong/sin and to be avoided, because it may bring up memeories or incline them to certain past sinful actions or stir the passions.

I listen to alot of instrumental music which takes the whole question of sinful lyrics out of the equasion. But most people like songs with lyrics, so one must be discerning.

I agree with Sabbas that certain types of literature and music will raise the mind back to a humane level (which alot of pop culture lit. and music cannot do) so that the mind can be elevated enough to be worked with, evangelized and converted - very wise insight of Fr. Seraphim.

But I also believe pop music can be redeemed. Although I am not a great fan of hip hop (my college age son listens to it) and think most of the lyrics are disgusting, the form itself is not intrinscially evil. A Christian artist could write lyrics that reflect a postive, godly outlook on life. In N. America, we Orthodox are pretty heavily caucasian, so you probably will not be seeing any Orthodox rappers any time soon, however! [not that whites can't/don't rap, but the CCM rap groups like DC Rap are not coming out of our culture, but rather an evangelical and/or black church culture; the Orthodox Church is thriving in parts of African, however and Orthodox missions in African-American neighborhoods should be on our home mission agendas in my opinion and I think our tradition has alot that would speak naturally to people of color - but that's a subject for another thread]

I am a guitar player and teacher. I don't listen to alot of heavy or speed metal ( I prefer jazz/ blues/ Celtic/ folk and americana; also, Orthodox liturgical music and chant, and to Arvo Part and John Tavener - both Orthodox classical composers) many of them are phenominal, classically-trained guitarists and I admire thier skill. And I have bought a record or two in that genre (at least with a Satriani there are no lyrics to worry about)!

I think it is important to be wise and purposeful. In the morning before prayer, when making my coffee and getting the cobwebs out of my head, I don't want to listen to something that will remove me from that vulnerable openness to God I feel when I wake up so I play nothing or else liturgical music or Arvo Part/John Tavener; maybe an instrumental guitar record of Celtic music. Later in the day I will listen to my other CD's.

St. Romanos Records (www.saintromanosrecords.com) has CD's by contemporary Orthodox artists . Their Cross Culture Project I and II CD's have a sampling of various Orthodox musicians. The songs range from kids songs to songs about the liturgy to worshipful songs (non-liturgical of course) to songs about saints to songs about Orthodox Christian living to love songs to amusing songs - in short songs about anything in life from an Orthodox world view - what one would expect from Orthodox artists.

So be discerning; be non-judgmental regarding style (again, lyrics are another matter); be honest (and perhaps stern) with yoursellf; and practice variety and the broadening/elevating of one's tastes. I think alot of what St. Paul has to say about eating or refraining from certain foods In ICorinthians ans Romans applies here!
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« Reply #17 on: April 14, 2005, 01:05:26 PM »

Also turn the CD off sometimes. Experience silence - so important for knowing God.

Sabba's post of the insights of Fr. Seraphim is very wise. Most of what I have posted above is only achieved in the context of a classical, well rounded education (which is what Fr. Seraphim is describing). A grounding in good literature and music and art and history are essential for a proper use of popular culture and keeping it in its proper perspective. Those mired in the pop/rock culture may very well need a time of abstinence and immersion in classical curriculum/music/art before they can re-experience anything in pop culture. Some of them may never be able to expereince it ever again, but like an AA member, must "stay clean" from all pop culture. It depends on its former effects on one's soul.

I am 50 and may be among the last birth years (1955) in America that had anything resembling the old classical curriculum in US public education. By my senior year that was changing and electives, etc. were being brought in (along with junk food in our school cafeteria - maybe there was a connection!). Although I was a victim of "new" math (and need a calculator for the most remedial of math functions).
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« Reply #18 on: April 14, 2005, 01:53:32 PM »

My dad made me play instruments when I was younger (several years between violin, piano and oboe).  I'm glad he did, even though I wasn't that dedicated and only mildly interested at the time.  From my early twenties until the present I feel that I have reclaimed a lot of interest in classical music - a lot of it due to singing in church.

A couple of friends through church (one posts here irregularly) are musicians as well - both with vast ranges of appreciation.  The one that posts here both has a newly published liturgy CD (Byzantine in English) and a small album of Trance (or maybe D&B) that I have a copy of.  I actually feel that some techno (more specifically D&B and Trance) has helped me appreciate classical again as I think you can draw parallels. 
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« Reply #19 on: April 15, 2005, 01:08:50 AM »

Quote
"The child who has been exposed from his earliest years to good classical music, and has seen his soul being developed by it, will not be nearly as tempted by the crude rhythm and message of rock and other contemporary forms of pseudo-music as someone who has grown up without a musical education.

It should be remembered, though, that almost all fans of serious (i.e. not the mainstream nu-metal crap you hear on the airwaves) metal are also great fans of classical music. The influence of classical music on metal cannot be overstated; indeed, much metal is essentially baroque music played on modern instruments. Almost every metal fan I know (myself included) listened to classical music before discovering metal.
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« Reply #20 on: April 15, 2005, 01:35:19 AM »



It should be remembered, though, that almost all fans of serious (i.e. not the mainstream nu-metal crap you hear on the airwaves) metal are also great fans of classical music. The influence of classical music on metal cannot be overstated; indeed, much metal is essentially baroque music played on modern instruments. Almost every metal fan I know (myself included) listened to classical music before discovering metal.

I haven't seen it, but then again I never really asked.  I'm skeptical though.  I don't see it among the general public, which would be the biggest (and most dangerous) group.  Maybe the "serious" fans are rather few percentage-wise.
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« Reply #21 on: April 15, 2005, 09:20:29 AM »

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I haven't seen it, but then again I never really asked.  I'm skeptical though.  I don't see it among the general public, which would be the biggest (and most dangerous) group.  Maybe the "serious" fans are rather few percentage-wise.

Well, the thing is, the *vast* majority of music that falls under the non-nu-metal label is not mainstream, any more than most modern jazz music is mainstream. You'll never hear it on the radio or see it on MTV, so the percentage of the general public who even knows about it is only a few percent. Most metal is put out by independent labels based in Europe -- it originated there, and to this day the center of the metal scene is in Europe.
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« Reply #22 on: April 15, 2005, 12:09:56 PM »

I do know that alot of metal guitarists are classically trained. Whether the majority of their fans, other than just the guitar geeks (like me!) know or care, I'm not sure. Then again, most of their fans  probably are guitar geeks (whether they play or not)!
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