Author Topic: The convert's post-something-grand-about-Orthodoxy thread  (Read 4412 times)

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Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: The convert's post-something-grand-about-Orthodoxy thread
« Reply #45 on: June 04, 2014, 12:25:50 AM »
In other words its a nice way to enjoy people with cultures other than WASPism.

And yet another way to exercise that self-flagellating Western guilt and self-hatred.

Better to "flagellate" now than to wait till Judgment.
In love did God create the world; in love does he guide it ...; in love is he going wondrously to transform it. --Abba Isaac

Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity. --Climacus

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: The convert's post-something-grand-about-Orthodoxy thread
« Reply #46 on: June 05, 2014, 02:00:45 PM »
  • I love that I have a leader named His All Holiness Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew. :)
« Last Edit: June 05, 2014, 03:08:14 PM by Thomas »
In love did God create the world; in love does he guide it ...; in love is he going wondrously to transform it. --Abba Isaac

Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity. --Climacus

Offline WPM

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Re: The convert's post-something-grand-about-Orthodoxy thread
« Reply #47 on: June 05, 2014, 02:11:13 PM »
The part where you participate in Worship.

Offline wainscottbl

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Re: The convert's post-something-grand-about-Orthodoxy thread
« Reply #48 on: June 05, 2014, 05:31:56 PM »
The simple magic of walking into an Orthodox church. I suppose to us Westerns it is exotic. When we think of Orthodox we think either Russian or Greek. My dad thinks Russian when I have mentioned joining the Orthodox Church. My doctor when the Antiochian priest was visiting me in the hospital asked him, "Oh, like Greek Orthodox?" Whatever Church you visit--Greek, Russian, Antiochian--it's exotic. And heavenly. It's what the Catholic Church was in the Middle Ages many traditional Catholics may forget. There was, after all a wall dividing the priest from the faithful in the Middle Ages. And even at Trent though it was starting to fade away in those days. The whole exoticness. But not just the sensuous exoticness, but the heavenlyness. All the icons and how the whole church is designed to make you feel you are in heaven.
"There are two great tragedies: one is to live a life ruled by the passions, and the other is to live a passionless life." --Gebre Menfes Kidus

I once said to my father, when I was a boy, 'Dad we need a third political party.' He said to me, 'I'll settle for a second.' --Ralph Nader, America's Cato

Offline xOrthodox4Christx

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Re: The convert's post-something-grand-about-Orthodoxy thread
« Reply #49 on: June 05, 2014, 06:21:14 PM »
  • I love that I have a leader named His All Holiness Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew. :)

'First among equals' really isn't a leader. He divides sometimes more often than he leads some will tell you.
"Your children shall become the head, but you... will become the tail of the Church; therefore your judges will be those who have always preserved the Catholic Faith... they will be the Orthodox and true Catholics since they have never accepted heretics... but have remained zealous for the True Faith." (Western Bishops' Response to Pope Vigilius)

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: The convert's post-something-grand-about-Orthodoxy thread
« Reply #50 on: June 05, 2014, 06:27:09 PM »
  • I love that I have a leader named His All Holiness Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew. :)

'First among equals' really isn't a leader. He divides sometimes more often than he leads some will tell you.

*shrug* He's a leader for me.
In love did God create the world; in love does he guide it ...; in love is he going wondrously to transform it. --Abba Isaac

Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity. --Climacus

Offline Georgii

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Re: The convert's post-something-grand-about-Orthodoxy thread
« Reply #51 on: June 11, 2014, 12:22:46 PM »
    • That I was joining a hundred generations in true friendship and worship

    This morning I was making prostrations and thinking about how hard it was to stand up again. When I came to "Grant, o Lord, remission of sins to all our fathers, brethren and sisters that have departed before us in the faith and hope of resurrection...", the thought hit me that the grandmothers from Reply #39 are praying with and for us, too.
    my garment accuses me, for it is not a wedding garment

    Offline littlepilgrim64

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    Re: The convert's post-something-grand-about-Orthodoxy thread
    « Reply #52 on: June 13, 2014, 08:04:23 PM »
    Theosis. Everything about Christianity makes more sense with theosis.

    I'm still trying to understand Theosis.

    Offline littlepilgrim64

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    Re: The convert's post-something-grand-about-Orthodoxy thread
    « Reply #53 on: June 13, 2014, 08:58:03 PM »
    As I enter the narthex and encounter the scent of the incense it's as if the Lord is wooing me to Himself to come into His presence and worship with His people.  You know you are in a holy place, standing there in fear, awe and wonder throughout the entire liturgy as you worship in communion with those around you.

    Offline wainscottbl

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    Re: The convert's post-something-grand-about-Orthodoxy thread
    « Reply #54 on: June 13, 2014, 10:46:36 PM »
    Theosis. Everything about Christianity makes more sense with theosis.

    I'm still trying to understand Theosis.

    I'm still trying to understand why supposedly it can be understood as the Catholic term beatitude as in the state of one in the Beatific Vision. If one removes seeing the essence of God from the mix, why can't we say Beatific Vision? That said, I do like the idea of theosis as it explains a lot about the fall even. That maybe the fruit was a means to theosis and Adam at it prematurely.
    "There are two great tragedies: one is to live a life ruled by the passions, and the other is to live a passionless life." --Gebre Menfes Kidus

    I once said to my father, when I was a boy, 'Dad we need a third political party.' He said to me, 'I'll settle for a second.' --Ralph Nader, America's Cato

    Offline john_mo

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    Re: The convert's post-something-grand-about-Orthodoxy thread
    « Reply #55 on: June 21, 2014, 05:12:32 AM »
    Yeah, for me it's worshiping with all five senses, having such a responsive clergy and being part of such a rational Church.  Yes, I find the Orthodox mind to be quite rational.

    Orthodoxy is my JAM!
    Love is not blind; that is the last thing that it is. Love is bound; and the more it is bound the less it is blind.

    —G.K. Chesterton

    Offline CharalambisMakarios

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    Re: The convert's post-something-grand-about-Orthodoxy thread
    « Reply #56 on: June 21, 2014, 06:24:59 PM »
    Though I'm not yet a convert, I'll post a few things:

    1. Theosis-ever so much. The idea that we're not just worshipping God and Jesus as some kind of cosmic fire insurance against Hell, but that through our faith and prayer and living and by His grace we may enter glorious union with Him, be transfigured, sanctified and made radiant.

    2. On that note, mysticism, and the fact that the Orthodox Church makes room for contemplatives like me who are often somewhat marginalized by modern American Christianity.

    3. Liturgical languages-perhaps a more Biblical interpretation of "speaking in tongues". I'm a total language geek anyway, and while I know God hears us in every language, I love hearing and participating in prayer and worship through the diversity of human tongues.

    4. Community that is focused on recreating as best as humanly possible the Way of life and worship according to Jesus Himself.

    5. (on a slightly smaller note), this prayer:
    Lord, bless those who praise You and sanctify those who trust in You. Save Your people and bless Your inheritance. Protect the whole body of Your Church. Sanctify those who love the beauty of Your house. Glorify them in return by Your divine power, and do not forsake us who hope in You. Grant peace to Your world, to Your churches, to the clergy, to those in public service, to the armed forces, and to all Your people. For every good and perfect gift is from above, coming from You, the Father of lights. To You we give glory, thanksgiving, and worship, to the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, now and forever and to the ages of ages.


    Offline Anna.T

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    Re: The convert's post-something-grand-about-Orthodoxy thread
    « Reply #57 on: June 21, 2014, 07:35:03 PM »
    Though I'm not yet a convert, I'll post a few things:

    1. Theosis-ever so much. The idea that we're not just worshipping God and Jesus as some kind of cosmic fire insurance against Hell, but that through our faith and prayer and living and by His grace we may enter glorious union with Him, be transfigured, sanctified and made radiant.

    2. On that note, mysticism, and the fact that the Orthodox Church makes room for contemplatives like me who are often somewhat marginalized by modern American Christianity.

    3. Liturgical languages-perhaps a more Biblical interpretation of "speaking in tongues". I'm a total language geek anyway, and while I know God hears us in every language, I love hearing and participating in prayer and worship through the diversity of human tongues.

    4. Community that is focused on recreating as best as humanly possible the Way of life and worship according to Jesus Himself.

    5. (on a slightly smaller note), this prayer:
    Lord, bless those who praise You and sanctify those who trust in You. Save Your people and bless Your inheritance. Protect the whole body of Your Church. Sanctify those who love the beauty of Your house. Glorify them in return by Your divine power, and do not forsake us who hope in You. Grant peace to Your world, to Your churches, to the clergy, to those in public service, to the armed forces, and to all Your people. For every good and perfect gift is from above, coming from You, the Father of lights. To You we give glory, thanksgiving, and worship, to the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, now and forever and to the ages of ages.



    Wow, +1. I could have written this post. Every word of it. :)
    Aγιος ὁ Θεός, Ἅγιος ἰσχυρός, Ἅγιος ἀθάνατος, ἐλέησον ἡμᾶς

    Let us commit ourselves and one another and our whole life to Christ our God

    Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.

    Offline Maximum Bob

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    Re: The convert's post-something-grand-about-Orthodoxy thread
    « Reply #58 on: June 22, 2014, 12:23:29 AM »
    4. Community that is focused on recreating as best as humanly possible the Way of life and worship according to Jesus Himself.

    I would offer a small suggestion on this one point. I think most Orthodox would say we don't recreate but rather that we continue. A small point, but perhaps with some significance.

    A very good list though. :)
    Psalm 37:23 The Lord guides a man safely in the way he should go.

    Prov. 3: 5-6 Trust in the Lord with all your heart, lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways acknowledge Him, and He will direct your paths.

    Offline Porter ODoran

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    Re: The convert's post-something-grand-about-Orthodoxy thread
    « Reply #59 on: June 22, 2014, 12:38:26 AM »
    4. Community that is focused on recreating as best as humanly possible the Way of life and worship according to Jesus Himself.

    I would offer a small suggestion on this one point. I think most Orthodox would say we don't recreate but rather that we continue. A small point, but perhaps with some significance.

    A very good list though. :)

    Which is another thing grand: real documented provenance to the earliest centuries, for Orthodox practice, rather than the strident sophistications a seeker among Protestant sects becomes resigned to.
    In love did God create the world; in love does he guide it ...; in love is he going wondrously to transform it. --Abba Isaac

    Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity. --Climacus

    Offline CharalambisMakarios

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    Re: The convert's post-something-grand-about-Orthodoxy thread
    « Reply #60 on: June 22, 2014, 10:39:11 AM »
    Thanks, Anna T.!

    With regards to "re-create" vs. "continue", I only use the word "re-create" because the history of the apostolic succession is in some places a little fuzzy and hard to discern. That doesn't mean that it isn't mostly true, and I think in spirit Orthodoxy captures the apostolic church very well, but I feel that there isn't enough information to precisely equal the original church of the apostles. I would agree that it is a continuation, however.

    tl;dr-history is complicated, but I don't disagree with you

    Offline Georgii

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    Re: The convert's post-something-grand-about-Orthodoxy thread
    « Reply #61 on: June 25, 2014, 02:25:52 AM »
    I'm still trying to understand Theosis.

    You are what you eat.
    my garment accuses me, for it is not a wedding garment

    Offline CharalambisMakarios

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    Re: The convert's post-something-grand-about-Orthodoxy thread
    « Reply #62 on: June 25, 2014, 06:52:23 PM »
    I'm still trying to understand Theosis.

    You are what you eat.

     :D lol. Though Eucharist alone isn't sufficient for theosis, I feel, though it contributes most definitely.

    Offline William

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    Re: The convert's post-something-grand-about-Orthodoxy thread
    « Reply #63 on: June 25, 2014, 07:24:56 PM »
    I value the extensive use of psalms in worship. For me at least, it makes Orthodoxy more biblical than even the most austere of Protestants.
    « Last Edit: June 25, 2014, 07:28:05 PM by William »
    Apart from moral conduct, all that man thinks himself able to do in order to become acceptable to God is mere superstition and religious folly. - Immanuel Kant

    Offline Georgii

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    Re: The convert's post-something-grand-about-Orthodoxy thread
    « Reply #64 on: June 25, 2014, 09:12:18 PM »
    :D lol. Though Eucharist alone isn't sufficient for theosis, I feel, though it contributes most definitely

    I didn't have a proper catechumenate, but it seems to me that if God has instituted the Eucharist as the way to make us gods, who are we to refuse?
    « Last Edit: June 25, 2014, 09:33:57 PM by Georgii »
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    Offline ElizabethanElizabeth

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    Re: The convert's post-something-grand-about-Orthodoxy thread
    « Reply #65 on: June 26, 2014, 02:11:39 AM »
    • The Church Fathers and Mothers
    • "Friends" in High places ;)
    • The Icons, which I feel so beautifully encapsulate the Truth of the Orthodox Faith
    • The physicality of worship - crossing oneself, bowing, kissing, singing, praying, etc.

    Offline Porter ODoran

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    Re: The convert's post-something-grand-about-Orthodoxy thread
    « Reply #66 on: June 26, 2014, 02:13:13 AM »
    I value the extensive use of psalms in worship. For me at least, it makes Orthodoxy more biblical than even the most austere of Protestants.

    Presbyterians and many other Calvinists traditionally sing nothing else.
    In love did God create the world; in love does he guide it ...; in love is he going wondrously to transform it. --Abba Isaac

    Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity. --Climacus

    Offline wainscottbl

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    Re: The convert's post-something-grand-about-Orthodoxy thread
    « Reply #67 on: July 12, 2014, 01:51:03 PM »
    That hypocrisy and self-righteousness is worse than being a prostitute, just like in the Bible, but that prostitutes are not just said to be okay because they are "nice"people. You get the "Do not judge" without the stupid liberal relativism.
    "There are two great tragedies: one is to live a life ruled by the passions, and the other is to live a passionless life." --Gebre Menfes Kidus

    I once said to my father, when I was a boy, 'Dad we need a third political party.' He said to me, 'I'll settle for a second.' --Ralph Nader, America's Cato

    Offline hecma925

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    Re: The convert's post-something-grand-about-Orthodoxy thread
    « Reply #68 on: July 13, 2014, 01:29:26 AM »
    That hypocrisy and self-righteousness is worse than being a prostitute, just like in the Bible, but that prostitutes are not just said to be okay because they are "nice"people. You get the "Do not judge" without the stupid liberal relativism.

    Jesus liked saying, "Sin no more."  Huh.
    Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

    Another blog - http://literarydiktator.blogspot.com/

    Offline wainscottbl

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    Re: The convert's post-something-grand-about-Orthodoxy thread
    « Reply #69 on: July 14, 2014, 09:47:39 PM »
    That hypocrisy and self-righteousness is worse than being a prostitute, just like in the Bible, but that prostitutes are not just said to be okay because they are "nice"people. You get the "Do not judge" without the stupid liberal relativism.

    Jesus liked saying, "Sin no more."  Huh.

    That;s my point. Jesus tells the prostitute to sin no more. He does not call on the law which rightly justifies stoning her. He shows mercy, asking the sinless to stone her. He could have stoned her but he did not. We are called to remember the danger of being the men stoning her in our righteousness. Or the publican who prays the Jesus Prayer, which should be ours.
    "There are two great tragedies: one is to live a life ruled by the passions, and the other is to live a passionless life." --Gebre Menfes Kidus

    I once said to my father, when I was a boy, 'Dad we need a third political party.' He said to me, 'I'll settle for a second.' --Ralph Nader, America's Cato

    Offline gueranger

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    Re: The convert's post-something-grand-about-Orthodoxy thread
    « Reply #70 on: July 14, 2014, 10:37:58 PM »
    Something grand about Orthodoxy?

    The monks!