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Author Topic: Gay Marriage...I don't care.  (Read 2628 times) Average Rating: 0
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« Reply #45 on: May 21, 2014, 02:31:34 AM »


And the concept of a Church co-regnant with a State: surely this is basic Orthodoxy?

No, it isn't. The Kingdom of God is not of this world.
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« Reply #46 on: May 21, 2014, 03:21:45 AM »

Seriously, I am sick of hearing about this BS.  They just made gay marriage legal in my state.  Great!  I could care less!!

Weather or not they get married does not matter to me, it doesn't change my opinion and doesn't change Church teaching.  Homosexuals are not the new civil rights leaders of our day and they are not heros.  Homosexuals not getting married and segregation are not on par, IMO.  I used to be very impartial about this but it's like this is all some people think about!  I can't believe the audacity some people have to argue that them not being able to marry someone is akin to being lynched or beaten to death.  But nobody says a word lest we offend a very small minority in this country.

Anyway, I hope the Supreme Court just rules it legal in all states so the news can obsess on something else for a while.  And another thing...Oh I got to go, CNN just broke in with major breaking news about Led Zepplin...(something any Led Zepplin fan heard about years ago)

Indifference sure used to sound different
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« Reply #47 on: May 21, 2014, 03:23:38 AM »

The problem is that the gay rights supporters in this country are not happy with you bing indifferent or not caring less.  To them, that's equivalent to bigotry and homophobia.  To them, you must celebrate it and sanction it.  A live and let live attitude is unacceptable.  

It sounds like you are speaking of some conspiratorial "gay agenda" here. "They" are not getting together underground and planning ways to change church doctrine. Your indifference is very welcome to them, I suspect, as it is better than your overt opposition. I suspect that "live and let live" is exactly what most gays are looking for in regards to gay marriage.

Actually, all the gays in Maricopa County have a once a month luncheon in a basement to discuss ways to change church doctrine.

It's the first Tuesday of the month, at 1 P.M.  It's catered, but no one ever eats because we don't want to get fat.
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« Reply #48 on: May 21, 2014, 03:28:04 AM »

I'm gonna go with the abominations God named, specifically. You can go with whatever you came up with, though. Good luck.
"just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire. Yet in the same way these men, also by dreaming, defile the flesh, and reject authority"-Jude.

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« Reply #49 on: May 21, 2014, 08:33:20 AM »

I mostly am just excited for the day when my facebook newsfeed will no longer consist of endless posts of rainbow flags and people holding gay rights signs in front of courthouses.
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« Reply #50 on: May 21, 2014, 08:58:34 AM »

I mostly am just excited for the day when my facebook newsfeed will no longer consist of endless posts of rainbow flags and people holding gay rights signs in front of courthouses.

This is pretty much what my original complaint/venting was about.  The news in the U.S. focuses on pointless dribble such as this while there are real problems in the rest of the world.  I try to watch international broadcasts online and can only think that if the average American understood that 'gay marriage' is on the bottom of the list in other countries it might bring some perspective.  Gay marriage isn't on the top of the priority list when you can't feed your people, there are terrorist organizations left and right, your economy has collapsed, etc etc..

In the meantime here we are thinking that if gays don't get married, it's a horrible injustice.  I'm just so tired of seeing everyday how dumb this country has gotten!  I wasn't around 40-50 years ago but I didn't have to be to understand just how much smarter we were as a nation than today.  It's telling when a head of state will comment on some private comments made that are racist before they will comment on the thousands of Christians being slaughtered by Muslims. 

I don't think we are too far away from a catastrophic event here in the West but not necessarily because of some correlation to Sodom and Gomorrah.   The Pentagon recently released a report that said it would cost 2 billion to protect our electric grid from an attack for about 20 years which the government refused.  In the meantime, we give Pakistan 2 billion a year.  Gay marriage is just a symptom of the diseased mind that is the average Westerner.  So are all the other things I mentioned and it all comes down to one thing: self.  The common good principle is dead and will not return. 

I realize this post was all over the place but to sum it up, to me, gay marriage is just symptomatic of a much larger problem.  An all consumed, selfish, moronic society.
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« Reply #51 on: May 21, 2014, 09:14:59 AM »

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« Reply #52 on: May 21, 2014, 09:17:48 AM »

I'm gonna go with the abominations God named, specifically. You can go with whatever you came up with, though. Good luck.
"just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire. Yet in the same way these men, also by dreaming, defile the flesh, and reject authority"-Jude.

Don't worry, I haven't gone after any angels lately; in fact, I don't know anyone who has.
they being bodiless powers-not to mention sexless-that goes without saying.

"the men of the city, the men of Sodom, surrounded the house, both young and old, all the people from every quarter; and they called to Lot and said to him, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have relations with them." But Lot went out to them at the doorway, and shut the door behind him, But Lot went out to them at the doorway, and shut the door behind him, and said, "Please, my brothers, do not act wickedly. "Now behold, I have two daughters who have not had relations with man; please let me bring them out to you, and do to them whatever you like; only do nothing to these men, inasmuch as they have come under the shelter of my roof." Gen. 19:4-8

Your self serving scholasticism noted though.  
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« Reply #53 on: May 21, 2014, 09:18:48 AM »

The problem is that the gay rights supporters in this country are not happy with you bing indifferent or not caring less.  To them, that's equivalent to bigotry and homophobia.  To them, you must celebrate it and sanction it.  A live and let live attitude is unacceptable.  

It sounds like you are speaking of some conspiratorial "gay agenda" here. "They" are not getting together underground and planning ways to change church doctrine. Your indifference is very welcome to them, I suspect, as it is better than your overt opposition. I suspect that "live and let live" is exactly what most gays are looking for in regards to gay marriage.

Actually, all the gays in Maricopa County have a once a mont
h luncheon in a basement to discuss ways to change church doctrine.

It's the first Tuesday of the month, at 1 P.M.  It's catered, but no one ever eats because we don't want to get fat.
I take it that it is seafood, all those fish not knowing they are wet.
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« Reply #54 on: May 21, 2014, 09:22:58 AM »

This conversation kind of reminds me of an interesting story I heard regarding the bishops at Vatican II in the 1960s.  I can't recall what the name of the bishop was but he said during open deliberations/discussion, many of the Western European/US bishops were excited thinking that this Council would open the doors to married and women priests.  Meanwhile, the rest of the bishops from the East/Southern Hemisphere balked at this saying that they are simply trying to keep their women alive.

 
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« Reply #55 on: May 21, 2014, 10:27:16 AM »

The problem is that the gay rights supporters in this country are not happy with you bing indifferent or not caring less.  To them, that's equivalent to bigotry and homophobia.  To them, you must celebrate it and sanction it.  A live and let live attitude is unacceptable. 

It sounds like you are speaking of some conspiratorial "gay agenda" here. "They" are not getting together underground and planning ways to change church doctrine. Your indifference is very welcome to them, I suspect, as it is better than your overt opposition. I suspect that "live and let live" is exactly what most gays are looking for in regards to gay marriage.

I'd like to believe that a "live and let live" mantra is what most everyone looks for regardless of demographic.  However, the gay lobby or the klaxons-- at least the ones that make the rounds on cable news shows or write op-eds for newspapers or the ones on facebook--in my view, are charlatans and deceitful. 

I remember when gay civil unions started to be talked about as a substantive issue.  The main reasons behind that rally for legal recognition of such unions were things like a) beneficiaries of social security  or other inheritance b)visitations at hospitals, all things which could easily be remedied by altering laws related to inheritance and power of attorney.  That wasn't enough.  "No," they said, "We have to have civil unions. We're not even talking about marriage."  So everyone else cave and gave them civil unions where things like what I listed would be protected and taken care of.  Then, a few years later down the line, the same people say "Civil Unions aren't enough. It's discrimination.  We need to be married."  And on and on we have come.  So, frankly, I don't trust the gay agitators.  They are deceitful.  They were given everything they asked for with civil unions saying that would be enough.  Obviously, it wasn't.

And how is the "live and let live" attitude definitely supported by members of the gay community when some of their ranks bring lawsuit upon lawsuit, threaten children with death and file criminal charges against a small business owner who doesn't want to rent out a room at a bed and breakfast to gay couples or who doesn't want to bake a cake for a gay wedding or doesn't want to be the photographer of a gay wedding ceremony, etc.?  Where is the condemnation of those actions by the gay community?  The hypocrisy is telling.  I'm especially astonished when gay marriage advocates say they want the government out of marriage but want the government to impose sanctions on those who feel and think differently.  Again, the hypocrisy is telling.  Freedom of conscience, I suppose, only applies if my conscience is in sync with theirs.

As Isa already made the analogy, I will just restate:  It's no different than moderate Muslims vs. Wahabbi Islamofascist Muslims.  The "moderates" don't do anything (or barely anything) to condemn the terrorism of the fascist Muslims and then bemoan that they are painted with the same brush.  Until the "moderates" of the gay community start standing up and defending everyone's right to disagree on the subject of gay marriage or homosexuality in general, then don't be surprised if all gays are painted with the same brush, too. 
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« Reply #56 on: May 21, 2014, 10:34:55 AM »

And the concept of a Church co-regnant with a State: surely this is basic Orthodoxy?

You'll have to define what you mean by "co-regnant," and also keep in mind that Orthodoxy is quite varied. Certain traditions have a large history of close relations between the Throne and the Altar, but others do not (e.g. some [many?] of the Oriental Orthodox). Similarly, there are fathers (e.g. St. Augustine) that held to a very estranged relationship at best, and others held differing views going to the opposite end of the spectrum.
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« Reply #57 on: May 21, 2014, 12:35:26 PM »

I'm gonna go with the abominations God named, specifically. You can go with whatever you came up with, though. Good luck.

What an odd comment. 
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« Reply #58 on: May 21, 2014, 01:21:03 PM »

HOW MATURE OF YOU.
Thank you.
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« Reply #59 on: May 21, 2014, 02:10:39 PM »


And the concept of a Church co-regnant with a State: surely this is basic Orthodoxy?

No, it isn't. The Kingdom of God is not of this world.

The Kingdom does not belong to the world, but it is present just as God is present. "As in heaven, so on earth" &c. Further, the Church is supposed to be an earthly icon of the heavenly Kingdom. We can think about what that means.

You'll have to define what you mean by "co-regnant," and also keep in mind that Orthodoxy is quite varied. Certain traditions have a large history of close relations between the Throne and the Altar, but others do not (e.g. some [many?] of the Oriental Orthodox). Similarly, there are fathers (e.g. St. Augustine) that held to a very estranged relationship at best, and others held differing views going to the opposite end of the spectrum.

I don't mean anything technical by it. Just that both Church and State are needed for a whole society (note: not churches, or some mere availability of churchmen, but the Church), and that both need authority in order to do their kinds of work.

The following from Goarch.org's "Our Faith" section:

Quote
The Church ... refuses to accept a compartmentalized self-undestanding that restricts the interests and concerns of the Church to a narrowly defined "religious sphere." The Orthodox Church, throughout its history, has both used and encouraged the arts, culture and education, and has addressed the whole range of social and public phenomena. Among these have been its relationship with government in general, and the exercise of civil power in concrete circumstances, i.e., politics. As a general principle, the Orthodox Church has held a position on the ideal of Church and State relations which may be called "the principle of synergy." ... The historical example for the principle of synergy in Church and State relationships is the model of the Byzantine Empire, which lasted over a thousand years (324 -1453). Recent scholarship has rejected the older viewpoint that in Byzantium the Church was subservient to the State, and now recognizes that the view of the Byzantine Church on this question was misunderstood by earlier researchers.

The article does go on to say that the Church must "adapt to political realities of time and place," that it is "nearly always impossible fully to implement the principle of synergy," and that the Church nowadays mostly just is happy to be allowed freedom to worship.

Such technicalities aside, I'd think it is obvious the population of the West suffers a dreadful epidemic of soul-sickness, and, to my view it is equally obvious only the Church's wise government could effect a cure.
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« Reply #60 on: May 21, 2014, 02:22:19 PM »

I'm gonna go with the abominations God named, specifically. You can go with whatever you came up with, though. Good luck.

What an odd comment. 


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« Reply #61 on: June 16, 2014, 08:45:51 PM »

They will use their political victories to try to enforce change in doctrines of churches that still refuse to marry gays. Mark my words, it will happen.

The priest only acts an agent of the state, since marriage is governed by the authority of the state and not the Church.

What gays want is for society to recognize that they are normal healthy human beings, and marriage may just be the last goal to achieve that recognition. Although I myself have reservations on the institution itself.

Its taken decades to decriminalize sodomy, put an end to gay harassment, abuse, discrimination, etc.

Marriage is not defined by the way you define it.
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« Reply #62 on: June 16, 2014, 09:01:13 PM »

I deleted what I wrote. Because I felt it will bring a lot of heated arguments, and I'm not in a state of mind for that. Smiley
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« Reply #63 on: June 28, 2014, 11:43:49 PM »

The most awesomely ridiculous website advocating gay marriage.  Apparently, unbeknownst to us all, St. Paul ORDAINED gay marriage and the Church has been hiding it from us.

http://www.brianbowenministries.com/ch-1-eunuch-births.html
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« Reply #64 on: June 28, 2014, 11:49:36 PM »

The most awesomely ridiculous website advocating gay marriage.  Apparently, unbeknownst to us all, St. Paul ORDAINED gay marriage and the Church has been hiding it from us.

http://www.brianbowenministries.com/ch-1-eunuch-births.html

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« Reply #65 on: June 29, 2014, 12:13:02 AM »

They will use their political victories to try to enforce change in doctrines of churches that still refuse to marry gays. Mark my words, it will happen.

The priest only acts an agent of the state, since marriage is governed by the authority of the state and not the Church.

What gays want is for society to recognize that they are normal healthy human beings, and marriage may just be the last goal to achieve that recognition. Although I myself have reservations on the institution itself.

Its taken decades to decriminalize sodomy, put an end to gay harassment, abuse, discrimination, etc.

Marriage is not defined by the way you define it.

I don't think I ever defined it; I've just accepted the definition that has come down to us over time. But since you brought it up, pray tell, how is it defined?

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« Reply #66 on: June 29, 2014, 03:32:36 AM »

Seriously, I am sick of hearing about this BS.  They just made gay marriage legal in my state.  Great!  I could care less!!

Weather or not they get married does not matter to me, it doesn't change my opinion and doesn't change Church teaching.  Homosexuals are not the new civil rights leaders of our day and they are not heros.  Homosexuals not getting married and segregation are not on par, IMO.  I used to be very impartial about this but it's like this is all some people think about!  I can't believe the audacity some people have to argue that them not being able to marry someone is akin to being lynched or beaten to death.  But nobody says a word lest we offend a very small minority in this country.

Anyway, I hope the Supreme Court just rules it legal in all states so the news can obsess on something else for a while.  And another thing...Oh I got to go, CNN just broke in with major breaking news about Led Zepplin...(something any Led Zepplin fan heard about years ago)


Homosexuals are heroes and they are the leaders of today's civil rights movement. Maybe to you they are not heroes, but in reality they are, they have been abused physically and emotionally and still the same happening to them in so many parts of the world, they still face legal punishments such as facing jail time and sometimes the death penalty itself, they have no legal protection in so many parts of the world, they are being killed in so many parts in the world as well. Yet, they still exist, still fight for their rights. To me and to plenty of reasonable objective people, they are heroes, and they are the leaders for the civil rights movement of today.

Gays as well want to just get over with it and get their God given rights, it is those Anti-Gay Christians such as the Catholic Church, Baptists, Evangelicals..etc who keep fight marriage equality. So how about those Christians stop their war against equality and everything will calm down.

Personally as a Christian who follows and believes in the Lord Jesus Christ and His commandments, I'm in full support for marriage equality.
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« Reply #67 on: June 29, 2014, 04:01:55 AM »

I knew a gay girl who wasn't a hero, but most of them are ok by me.
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« Reply #68 on: June 29, 2014, 06:01:22 AM »

I knew a gay girl who wasn't a hero, but most of them are ok by me.

The OP meant all of homosexuals as a group of people. And when I said they are heroes, I didn't mean that each individual is a hero.

Like saying Christians are heroes who fought and died for their faith, that doesn't mean each Christian is a hero who fought and died for his/her faith.

Get it ? Now go back to your reading smarty kitty  Grin
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« Reply #69 on: June 29, 2014, 06:02:51 AM »

I wouldn't say homosexuals are civil rights leaders, either.
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« Reply #70 on: June 29, 2014, 06:16:13 AM »


Homosexuals are heroes and they are the leaders of today's civil rights movement. Maybe to you they are not heroes, but in reality they are, they have been abused physically and emotionally and still the same happening to them in so many parts of the world, they still face legal punishments such as facing jail time and sometimes the death penalty itself, they have no legal protection in so many parts of the world, they are being killed in so many parts in the world as well.

Substitute "homosexuals" for christians/buddhists/fat people/albinos and it would be just as valid.

Yet, they still exist, still fight for their rights. To me and to plenty of reasonable objective people, they are heroes, and they are the leaders for the civil rights movement of today. Gays as well want to just get over with it and get their God given rights

What "rights" are denied them in the west?

Yet another example of my distaste for the "rights of man" theory. Everyone can come up with a supposed "God-given right" that's denied him, and voila, suddenly society has to change because of some metaphysical fiction. This nonsense always causes political polarisation, extremism and partisanship, since nobody can compromise when it comes to "God-given rights". Damn you, Tom Paine.

So how about those Christians stop their war against equality and everything will calm down.

Every time equality is tried some apparatchiks end up even more equal than the rest.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2014, 06:26:06 AM by Cyrillic » Logged

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« Reply #71 on: June 29, 2014, 06:59:43 AM »

Well said Cyrillic.

Funny part is, many of these "gays" don't even believe in a God to begin with.

And I wonder, for those who do, just what "god" gives them the right to engage in sodomy?
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« Reply #72 on: June 29, 2014, 07:23:53 AM »

Quote
Personally as a Christian who follows and believes in the Lord Jesus Christ and His commandments, I'm in full support for marriage equality.
Then you better damn well support his definition of what a marriage is to begin with:

"4And He answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, 5and said, 'FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH '? 6"So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."…
-Matt 19:4-6


Damn, it's right there in black and white and many of you faux christians REFUSE to accept it.

You are being totally obstinate in your acceptance of sodomy and "gay" marriage. The Sin of Sodom is one of the four major sins that cry out to heaven for vengeance, right up there with WILLFUL MURDER and oppressing the poor and stealing money from working people. You know you are deliberlately corrupting the minds and souls of children with this sexual perversion and defying the laws of the same Almighty God that you claim to worship and serve and STILL continue to justify this abomination. You are total hypocrites on this issue.

Homosexuality is a major sin of the flesh and strictly condemned by the Church and God himself in holy scripture, no matter what you say or what angle you try to come from or what argument you come up with. It is forbidden and hated by heaven, end of story. God doesn't care about your self-proclaimed "rights" in this culture or any other, HE strictly condemns it. That's it, end of story.

Even the atheists, pagans and the infidels know this is an abomination and they will all be you accusers on the judgment day if you continually persist on this path of denial and obstinacy in the Sin of Sodom.
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« Reply #73 on: June 29, 2014, 07:34:17 AM »

Quote
They just made gay marriage legal in my state.  Great!  I could care less!!

But you should care. Silence in many ways is acceptance.

Silence is also one of the ways you can be an accessory to another's sin.

We should always speak against evil and never be silent in another's engaging in willful, mortal sin.
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« Reply #74 on: June 29, 2014, 07:37:58 AM »

since marriage is governed by the authority of the state

Probably not, since the state grew out of marriage instead of the other way around.
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« Reply #75 on: June 29, 2014, 07:49:54 AM »

Quote
Personally as a Christian who follows and believes in the Lord Jesus Christ and His commandments, I'm in full support for marriage equality.
Then you better damn well support his definition of what a marriage is to begin with:

"4And He answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, 5and said, 'FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH '? 6"So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."…
-Matt 19:4-6


Damn, it's right there in black and white and many of you faux christians REFUSE to accept it.

You are being totally obstinate in your acceptance of sodomy and "gay" marriage. The Sin of Sodom is one of the four major sins that cry out to heaven for vengeance, right up there with WILLFUL MURDER and oppressing the poor and stealing money from working people. You know you are deliberlately corrupting the minds and souls of children with this sexual perversion and defying the laws of the same Almighty God that you claim to worship and serve and STILL continue to justify this abomination. You are total hypocrites on this issue.

Homosexuality is a major sin of the flesh and strictly condemned by the Church and God himself in holy scripture, no matter what you say or what angle you try to come from or what argument you come up with. It is forbidden and hated by heaven, end of story. God doesn't care about your self-proclaimed "rights" in this culture or any other, HE strictly condemns it. That's it, end of story.

Even the atheists, pagans and the infidels know this is an abomination and they will all be you accusers on the judgment day if you continually persist on this path of denial and obstinacy in the Sin of Sodom.

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« Reply #76 on: June 29, 2014, 07:56:35 AM »

Quote
Personally as a Christian who follows and believes in the Lord Jesus Christ and His commandments, I'm in full support for marriage equality.
Then you better damn well support his definition of what a marriage is to begin with:

"4And He answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, 5and said, 'FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH '? 6"So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."…
-Matt 19:4-6


Damn, it's right there in black and white and many of you faux christians REFUSE to accept it.

You are being totally obstinate in your acceptance of sodomy and "gay" marriage. The Sin of Sodom is one of the four major sins that cry out to heaven for vengeance, right up there with WILLFUL MURDER and oppressing the poor and stealing money from working people. You know you are deliberlately corrupting the minds and souls of children with this sexual perversion and defying the laws of the same Almighty God that you claim to worship and serve and STILL continue to justify this abomination. You are total hypocrites on this issue.

Homosexuality is a major sin of the flesh and strictly condemned by the Church and God himself in holy scripture, no matter what you say or what angle you try to come from or what argument you come up with. It is forbidden and hated by heaven, end of story. God doesn't care about your self-proclaimed "rights" in this culture or any other, HE strictly condemns it. That's it, end of story.

Even the atheists, pagans and the infidels know this is an abomination and they will all be you accusers on the judgment day if you continually persist on this path of denial and obstinacy in the Sin of Sodom.


Yeeeeah, I would like to response to you, but since it is very clear that your situation is hopeless, I'm going to do some useful thing with my day rather than wasting it.


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« Reply #77 on: June 29, 2014, 07:59:53 AM »

The sin of Sodom was neglecting the widows and orphans.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel%2016:49&version=DRA

« Last Edit: June 29, 2014, 08:02:42 AM by biro » Logged

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« Reply #78 on: June 29, 2014, 10:40:16 AM »

Honestly, the Gay Marriage issue is quite a tough nut to crack for me. Rejecting gay marriage would give impressions that one is oppressing the homosexual community. On the other hand, to accept it is to compromise our Doctrines and Beliefs given that Sacred Scripture obviously is *against* homosexuality and in the natural world, it is used for....."Evil" purposes such as dominance in the case of dolphins or would simply lead to higher rates of sexually transmitted diseases. Of course, in primates, homosexual acts are usually for "bonding" within the group but the way I see it is that it is an act out of "lust" rather than a physical expression of love. Given that animals have sexual needs too, these animals simply acted in accordance to that need out of instinct which stems from the need to pass on genes to the next generation through engaging in homosexual acts in order to fulfill that need. While it does not fulfill the biological and Evolutionary purpose of the sexual urge, there needs to be a mechanism to encourage such behavior through making the acts pleasurable. As a result, the homosexual behavior in primates are simply out of lust, and the need to fulfill an Evolutionary Need as it allows for each animal within the group of primates to have what they want, that is the pleasure derived from such activity.

Given that human beings are distinct from animals as we are Icons of God, our purpose of engaging in sexual behavior must be higher than that of animals. We reproduce to pass on our genes but the act itself is also conducted as a physical expression of Love between the male and the female, who are married of course where they become one flesh. By engaging in homosexuality, one would compromise this as we are simply acting like animals which is logical given the sinful nature of humanity. We are simply degrading ourselves by discarding our being that is the Icon of God by engaging in homosexual behavior. As a result, of this, I would have to reject the notion of homosexual unions.

However, we must be clear that homosexuals are still human beings and remember that they still have sexual urges just as we do but simply towards members of the same gender. Hence, we must be careful to not support laws or initiatives that segregate or breach their rights as human beings or "second class" simply because of their sexual inclinations.
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« Reply #79 on: June 29, 2014, 11:27:39 AM »

The sin of Sodom was neglecting the widows and orphans.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel%2016:49&version=DRA


biro, you and the other homosexual peddelers and enablers completely misrepresent that scripture.

The Sin of Sodom is blatantly obvious in scripture in Genesis, the men in that city WANTED TO RAPE THE OTHER MEN  who were guests of Lot, who just happened to be angels. It's got nothing to do with "neglecting widows and orphans" or being" inhospitable" to visitors.

It's about these people were so reprobate in their thinking, nothing was out of bounds for them. Ramapant homosexual sex and sexual perversions of all kinds, there was no level they wouldn't sink to, to satisfy their abominable cravings and appettites. Even the RAPE OF OTHER MEN. This is evidently clear and sound teachings and doctrines of the Catholic Church, regardless WHICH SIDE OF THE SCHISM YOU ARE ON.

You go ahead and try to protestant-ize your own version of sodomy or scripture, but CATHOLIC teaching is abundantly clear;


"If there's any misrepresenting going on, it's being perpetrated by your parish priest. There is nothing in Genesis 18 or 19 which could support his theory that a lack of hospitality was the crime that caused God to annihilate Sodom and Gomorrah. In Genesis 18 God said, "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great, and their sin [singular] is so grave . . ." (v. 20). What was the sin which "cried out" for punishment?

Genesis 19 recounts the story of how Abraham's nephew, Lot, entertained two angels at his home in Sodom. Word got around that Lot had some visiting men in his home, and "the townsmen of Sodom, both young and old," gathered outside his home, clamoring for the two visitors to be turned over so that they could be homosexually raped: "Where are the men who came to your house tonight? Bring them out to us that we might have intimacies with them."

Notice what's going on here. The strangers had been shown hospitality by Lot and his family (vv. 1-3). The townsmen didn't cry out to Lot that they wanted to be "inhospitable" to the visitors, but that they wanted to have intercourse with them, which is something markedly different. Lot attempts to quell the mob by offering them his two virgin daughters, suspecting that because these men were homosexuals they would refuse. The entire account revolves around a single sin: homosexuality.


http://www.newadvent.org/library/almanac_thisrock92.htm
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« Reply #80 on: June 29, 2014, 11:43:22 AM »

Quote
Yeeeeah, I would like to response to you, but since it is very clear that your situation is hopeless, I'm going to do some useful thing with my day rather than wasting it.
You don't respond because you have nothing to respond with, Ray.

I'm sorry if you don't like me or what the Church teaches on the sodomy issue, but it is what it is. You want to go on with this charade of believing that you can justify this abomination in some way, go ahead. You want to join a church that accepts and tolerates this nonsense, go ahead. Go ahead and become an Anglician because they are totally on board with this tolerance and acceptance of sexual perversion and sodomy. But know one thing, the Catholic Church IS NOT. Never was and never will be, no matter what some liberal or closet homosexual or pedophile priest, bishop or pope says or does. The Catholic church teaching on this issue does not or will not and will ever change on condemning open, unrepentent homosexuality. Christ did not come to change the Law, he is the fullfillment of the Law. the Church is the mystical body of Christ. Do not think for one minute that you can be part of this mystical body and consciously engaging or accepting sodomy or homosexuality or whatever you want to call it.

If you do, YOUR situation is hopeless, not mine.


You want to do something useful? Go find a traditional RC priest or even an EO priest and ask him if the Church accepts sodomy, "gay" marriage or homosexual sex. And then come back and tell me my situation is hopeless.
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« Reply #81 on: June 29, 2014, 12:29:53 PM »

The sin of Sodom was neglecting the widows and orphans.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel%2016:49&version=DRA


biro, you and the other homosexual peddelers and enablers completely misrepresent that scripture.

The Sin of Sodom is blatantly obvious in scripture in Genesis, the men in that city WANTED TO RAPE THE OTHER MEN  who were guests of Lot, who just happened to be angels. It's got nothing to do with "neglecting widows and orphans" or being" inhospitable" to visitors.

It's about these people were so reprobate in their thinking, nothing was out of bounds for them. Ramapant homosexual sex and sexual perversions of all kinds, there was no level they wouldn't sink to, to satisfy their abominable cravings and appettites. Even the RAPE OF OTHER MEN. This is evidently clear and sound teachings and doctrines of the Catholic Church, regardless WHICH SIDE OF THE SCHISM YOU ARE ON.

You go ahead and try to protestant-ize your own version of sodomy or scripture, but CATHOLIC teaching is abundantly clear;


"If there's any misrepresenting going on, it's being perpetrated by your parish priest. There is nothing in Genesis 18 or 19 which could support his theory that a lack of hospitality was the crime that caused God to annihilate Sodom and Gomorrah. In Genesis 18 God said, "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great, and their sin [singular] is so grave . . ." (v. 20). What was the sin which "cried out" for punishment?

Genesis 19 recounts the story of how Abraham's nephew, Lot, entertained two angels at his home in Sodom. Word got around that Lot had some visiting men in his home, and "the townsmen of Sodom, both young and old," gathered outside his home, clamoring for the two visitors to be turned over so that they could be homosexually raped: "Where are the men who came to your house tonight? Bring them out to us that we might have intimacies with them."

Notice what's going on here. The strangers had been shown hospitality by Lot and his family (vv. 1-3). The townsmen didn't cry out to Lot that they wanted to be "inhospitable" to the visitors, but that they wanted to have intercourse with them, which is something markedly different. Lot attempts to quell the mob by offering them his two virgin daughters, suspecting that because these men were homosexuals they would refuse. The entire account revolves around a single sin: homosexuality.


http://www.newadvent.org/library/almanac_thisrock92.htm

While the citizens of Sodom have the intentions of raping Lot's guests, it is still an inhospitable behavior as hospitability requires the host to treat the guest with respect. The act of raping is not respect especially given that it is non consensual between the two parties. Clearly, the situation also showed that that the men wanted to rape Lot's visitors who are Angels given that Lot's automatic reply was to offer his daughters to the men instead. This clearly shows rape as, Lot is simply trying to assure the safety of his guests whom he obviously knows are Angels sent from the Lord himself, by offering his daughters. Further on, we see the men getting violent, furthering the allusion of their attempt to break in and rape the angels at all costs.

Clearly, such an act is inhospitable given that these are the residents of Sodom that should instead do the right thing by treating their guests with respect and dignity. Clearly, their immediate demand for Lot to 'know' his guests show that these men do not even asked for the consent of these angels, hereby making the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah, as partially being "inhospitable".

Genesis 13:13 prior also make note that the people of Sodom were "were very wicked, and sinners before the face of the Lord, beyond measure."

When compared to Ezekiel 16:49, it compliments Genesis 13:13 and the traditional Jewish interpretation of the Sins of Sodom in which also affirmed Sodom neglecting the poor and the needy by giving money to beggars and refusing to sell them food, leaving them to die and then after that, reclaim the money. Biro is wrong when he/she?? said that the sin of Sodom is the neglectance of Widows and its daughters, the verse ezekiel 16:49 focuses on the Sodomites lack of empathy and care for the poor. He/she?? is still right in the sense that it is not solely homosexuality that is the sin of Sodom, it is one of its sins.

In regards to your accusation of the Anglican Communion, it should be noted that they have a divided stance on homosexuality, they don't all unanimously accept homosexuality. All the Anglicans I know of are against homosexuality and there was even one that I know of that gotten offended by the mere mention of homosexual Anglican priests. I know you may be heated up that some of us here take a liberal stand towards homosexuality but it could simply be out of an act of sympathy and empathy due to how much they have to suffer. I honestly can say that at times, I actually come close to accepting it as "normal" until getting hit by the reminder that Sacred Scriptures and Tradition does not affirm or accept it. I can only say that I support the notion that the discrimination of homosexuals should stop but I must say in regards to marriage, I must disagree on religious and logical grounds.
« Last Edit: June 29, 2014, 12:31:40 PM by sakura95 » Logged
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« Reply #82 on: June 29, 2014, 02:40:33 PM »

The sin of Sodom was neglecting the widows and orphans.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel%2016:49&version=DRA


biro, you and the other homosexual peddelers and enablers completely misrepresent that scripture.

The Sin of Sodom is blatantly obvious in scripture in Genesis, the men in that city WANTED TO RAPE THE OTHER MEN  who were guests of Lot, who just happened to be angels. It's got nothing to do with "neglecting widows and orphans" or being" inhospitable" to visitors.

Why can't it be both?  I read Scripture and it seems clear to me that it is both.  Picking only one to the exclusion of the other seems to disregard Scripture in service of an agenda. 
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« Reply #83 on: June 29, 2014, 02:51:33 PM »

The sin of Sodom was neglecting the widows and orphans.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel%2016:49&version=DRA


biro, you and the other homosexual peddelers and enablers completely misrepresent that scripture.

The Sin of Sodom is blatantly obvious in scripture in Genesis, the men in that city WANTED TO RAPE THE OTHER MEN  who were guests of Lot, who just happened to be angels. It's got nothing to do with "neglecting widows and orphans" or being" inhospitable" to visitors.

Then why isn't this a condemnation of rape? How does it address a consensual relationship?
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« Reply #84 on: June 29, 2014, 05:22:37 PM »

The sin of Sodom was neglecting the widows and orphans.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel%2016:49&version=DRA


biro, you and the other homosexual peddelers and enablers completely misrepresent that scripture.

The Sin of Sodom is blatantly obvious in scripture in Genesis, the men in that city WANTED TO RAPE THE OTHER MEN  who were guests of Lot, who just happened to be angels. It's got nothing to do with "neglecting widows and orphans" or being" inhospitable" to visitors.

Then why isn't this a condemnation of rape? How does it address a consensual relationship?
Because Sodom was guilty of many sins, not just rape and sexual perversion.

And what "consensual" relationship referring to? Two men? God already declared he "detests" that, in Leviticus I believe.
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« Reply #85 on: June 29, 2014, 07:09:00 PM »



The sin of Sodom was neglecting the widows and orphans.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel%2016:49&version=DRA


biro, you and the other homosexual peddelers and enablers completely misrepresent that scripture.

The Sin of Sodom is blatantly obvious in scripture in Genesis, the men in that city WANTED TO RAPE THE OTHER MEN  who were guests of Lot, who just happened to be angels. It's got nothing to do with "neglecting widows and orphans" or being" inhospitable" to visitors.

Then why isn't this a condemnation of rape? How does it address a consensual relationship?
Because Sodom was guilty of many sins, not just rape and sexual perversion.

And what "consensual" relationship referring to? Two men? God already declared he "detests" that, in Leviticus I believe.

What about two women relationship ? I don't remember there is any rule against two women have relationship together in Leviticus nor in all of the Old Testament ? Hmmmm, I wonder why ?
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« Reply #86 on: June 29, 2014, 07:49:51 PM »



The sin of Sodom was neglecting the widows and orphans.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel%2016:49&version=DRA


biro, you and the other homosexual peddelers and enablers completely misrepresent that scripture.

The Sin of Sodom is blatantly obvious in scripture in Genesis, the men in that city WANTED TO RAPE THE OTHER MEN  who were guests of Lot, who just happened to be angels. It's got nothing to do with "neglecting widows and orphans" or being" inhospitable" to visitors.

Then why isn't this a condemnation of rape? How does it address a consensual relationship?
Because Sodom was guilty of many sins, not just rape and sexual perversion.

And what "consensual" relationship referring to? Two men? God already declared he "detests" that, in Leviticus I believe.

What about two women relationship ? I don't remember there is any rule against two women have relationship together in Leviticus nor in all of the Old Testament ? Hmmmm, I wonder why ?

There's a passage about women doing to each other as men, and vice versa. So lesbianism isn't off the hook.
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« Reply #87 on: June 29, 2014, 08:03:11 PM »

I used to be very impartial about this but it's like this is all some people think about!  I can't believe the audacity some people have to argue that them not being able to marry someone is akin to being lynched or beaten to death.

It is. And it's one of the most common genocidal tactics to eradicate a group--preventing their reproduction. This is why some really backward Islamic theocracies don't allow non-Muslim females to marry non-Muslim males. However, in regards to homosexual marriage, it really makes no difference since they can't have children anyway. I find it very repulsive and downright abominable how convicted criminals are allowed to be married in prison but law-abiding, tax-paying homosexuals can't. Yet, we have no problem using THEIR tax dollars to subsidize our own heterosexual marriages. Either a) entirely remove the government from marriage. No one gets to be happy. b) make homosexual tax payers exempt from subsidizing heterosexual marriages, or c) give marriage to every tax payer.

Quote
But nobody says a word lest we offend a very small minority in this country.

Have you visited the Southern US or really anywhere other than the metropolitan cities? LGBT people are still the most stigmatized group in this country, second only perhaps to atheists. Their parents often hate them and drive them to suicide; bullies tease them. Religious people demonize them; society as a whole mocks and insults them.

My only complaint with the LGBT Movement is the whole "gender identity/gender theory" mumbo jumbo. Forcing others to accommodate what you think you are simply because you feel that way--regardless of not having the right DNA and social norms like liking dresses not biologically being associated with your sex at all--is not only unscientific, ignoring the very real biological differences between us, but it's also rude and places an extra burden on society as a whole, especially in regards to not even being able to segregate bathrooms with them screwing it up, and them screwing up the biology classroom with political correctness.

I place these people in the same category as I do Protestant YECs who crap on science and force everyone to accommodate it or else they scream oppression.
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« Reply #88 on: June 29, 2014, 08:03:10 PM »



The sin of Sodom was neglecting the widows and orphans.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel%2016:49&version=DRA


biro, you and the other homosexual peddelers and enablers completely misrepresent that scripture.

The Sin of Sodom is blatantly obvious in scripture in Genesis, the men in that city WANTED TO RAPE THE OTHER MEN  who were guests of Lot, who just happened to be angels. It's got nothing to do with "neglecting widows and orphans" or being" inhospitable" to visitors.

Then why isn't this a condemnation of rape? How does it address a consensual relationship?
Because Sodom was guilty of many sins, not just rape and sexual perversion.

And what "consensual" relationship referring to? Two men? God already declared he "detests" that, in Leviticus I believe.

What about two women relationship ? I don't remember there is any rule against two women have relationship together in Leviticus nor in all of the Old Testament ? Hmmmm, I wonder why ?

There's a passage about women doing to each other as men, and vice versa. So lesbianism isn't off the hook.

Those passages don't have anything to do with male-male or female-female sexual activity.  They're actually about road rage.
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Apolytikion, Tone 1, by Antonis

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« Reply #89 on: June 29, 2014, 08:05:08 PM »

Have you visited the Southern US or really anywhere other than the metropolitan cities?

Have you?
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Apolytikion, Tone 1, by Antonis

An eloquent crafter of divine posts
And an inheritor of the line of the Baptist
A righteous son of India
And a new apostle to the internet
O Holy Mor Ephrem,
Intercede for us, that our forum may be saved.


"Mor is a jerk." - kelly
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