Author Topic: About 100 Brazilians join the Syriac Orthodox Church  (Read 1576 times)

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Offline dhinuus

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About 100 Brazilians join the Syriac Orthodox Church
« on: May 15, 2014, 12:24:14 PM »
About One Hundred Brazilians joined the Syriac Orthodox Church. Most of them were receiving by Chrismation. Mor Titos Paulo Metropolitan of Brazil lead the services.

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Offline hecma925

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Re: About 100 Brazilians join the Syriac Orthodox Church
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2014, 12:31:26 PM »
Where in Brazil was this?
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Offline Elisha

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Re: About 100 Brazilians join the Syriac Orthodox Church
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2014, 12:38:12 PM »
I wonder if they are of Lebanese/Syrian ancestry?  I read recently that around 5% or so of South Americans are of Middle Eastern ancestry, predominantly of the Christian sort.

Offline dhinuus

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Re: About 100 Brazilians join the Syriac Orthodox Church
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2014, 12:39:01 PM »
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Offline dhinuus

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Re: About 100 Brazilians join the Syriac Orthodox Church
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2014, 12:40:33 PM »
One more pic of the Altar.... I wonder if the RC imagery of the Sacred Heart will stay ?
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Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: About 100 Brazilians join the Syriac Orthodox Church
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2014, 12:42:04 PM »
There is indeed a fairly large historical Lebanese population in Brazil.

One of my favorite Brazilian snacky foods is actually Kibbe.... :laugh:


Wiki gives you the -brief- version

The population of Brazil of either full or partial Lebanese descent is estimated at between 7 to 10 million people, which is most likely a gross over-estimation (see below for numbers of immigrants at the height of Lebanese migration to Brazil). This number of descendants is larger than the population in Lebanon. Immigration of the Lebanese (and Syrians) to Brazil started in the late 19th century, most of them coming from Lebanon and later from Syria. The immigration to Brazil grew further in the 20th century, and was concentrated in the state of São Paulo, but also extended to Minas Gerais, Goiás, Rio de Janeiro and other parts of Brazil.

Between 1884-1933 130,000 Lebanese people immigrated to Brazil. 65% of them were Catholics (Maronite Catholics and Greek Melkite Catholics), 20% were Greek Orthodox and 15% were Muslims (Shia, Sunni and Druze). According to French Consulate reports from that time[2], Lebanese/ Syrian immigrants in São Paulo and Santos were 130,000, in Pará 20,000, Rio de Janeiro 15,000, Rio Grande do Sul 14,000 and in Bahia 12,000. During the Lebanese Civil War 32,000 Lebanese people immigrated to Brazil.

Lebanese culture has influenced many aspects of Brazil's culture. In big towns of Brazil it is easy to find restaurants of Lebanese food, and dishes, such as sfiha ("esfiha"), hummus, kibbeh ("quibe"), tahina, tabbouleh ("tabule") and halwa are very well known among Brazilians.

Offline Orest

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Re: About 100 Brazilians join the Syriac Orthodox Church
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2014, 01:14:18 PM »
This seems more believable - 100 Brazilians with pictures of clergy - than the rumours of 200,000 converts in the past.

Online Fabio Leite

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Re: About 100 Brazilians join the Syriac Orthodox Church
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2014, 01:22:35 PM »
I'll try to follow up on that to get more details.

My guess is that they are not of Middle-Eastern ancestry. There is much interest into traditional forms of Christianity.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2014, 01:29:40 PM by Fabio Leite »
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Offline hecma925

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Re: About 100 Brazilians join the Syriac Orthodox Church
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2014, 01:30:46 PM »
I wonder if they were RC or a vagante group converting to the Syriac Orthodox Church?
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Online Fabio Leite

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Re: About 100 Brazilians join the Syriac Orthodox Church
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2014, 01:31:30 PM »
I wonder if they were RC or a vagante group converting to the Syriac Orthodox Church?

Don't dig... ;)
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Offline hecma925

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Re: About 100 Brazilians join the Syriac Orthodox Church
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2014, 01:33:24 PM »
I wonder if they were RC or a vagante group converting to the Syriac Orthodox Church?

Don't dig... ;)

I got a shovel...not just carrying it around for my health. :D
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Offline Alpo

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Re: About 100 Brazilians join the Syriac Orthodox Church
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2014, 02:24:47 PM »
There is much interest into traditional forms of Christianity.

Huh?  I've been told that the whole Brazil is converting to Pentecostalism or something to that effect.
The user should probably be sleeping by now.

Offline hecma925

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Re: About 100 Brazilians join the Syriac Orthodox Church
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2014, 02:27:05 PM »
There is much interest into traditional forms of Christianity.

Huh?  I've been told that the whole Brazil is converting to Pentecostalism or something to that effect.

Enough for 100 people to be chrismated at one time.
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Offline Nephi

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Re: About 100 Brazilians join the Syriac Orthodox Church
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2014, 02:35:14 PM »
I saw this on Facebook, either way it's good news.

Online Fabio Leite

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Re: About 100 Brazilians join the Syriac Orthodox Church
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2014, 03:08:30 PM »
There is much interest into traditional forms of Christianity.

Huh?  I've been told that the whole Brazil is converting to Pentecostalism or something to that effect.

100 people is statistically irrelevant. There are over 200 million people here. The numbers of converts to pentecostalism are far more dramatic.
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Offline hecma925

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Re: About 100 Brazilians join the Syriac Orthodox Church
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2014, 03:15:03 PM »
There is much interest into traditional forms of Christianity.

Huh?  I've been told that the whole Brazil is converting to Pentecostalism or something to that effect.

100 people is statistically irrelevant. There are over 200 million people here. The numbers of converts to pentecostalism are far more dramatic.
Where is the "much interest into traditional forms of Christianity" comig from?
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

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Online Fabio Leite

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Re: About 100 Brazilians join the Syriac Orthodox Church
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2014, 03:32:33 PM »
Here are the numbers for the growth of the evangelicals according to the official demographics agency IBGE:

Year - Number of adherents - % in BR's population
2000   26.2 million                 15.4%
2011   42.3 million                 22.0%

And here a graphic with the % of each religion in the population of Brazil


In order: Catholics - Evangelicals - Spiritists (of which 2% Kardecists, 0.3% Umbandists and Candomblecists) - No religion

Here is another interesting graphic

In order: Catholics - Evangelicals - Spiritists (of which 2% Kardecists, 0.3% Umbandists and Candomblecists) - Others - No Religion
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Online Fabio Leite

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Re: About 100 Brazilians join the Syriac Orthodox Church
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2014, 04:15:05 PM »
There is much interest into traditional forms of Christianity.

Huh?  I've been told that the whole Brazil is converting to Pentecostalism or something to that effect.

100 people is statistically irrelevant. There are over 200 million people here. The numbers of converts to pentecostalism are far more dramatic.
Where is the "much interest into traditional forms of Christianity" comig from?

From enquirers and deffectors. The utter, obstinate, systematic, committed disregard of hierarchs for conversions, their attitude of never offending  Rome with "seeking converts" which could disrupt "ecumenical relations", to the point of abandoning priests, local converts and even craddle Orthodox specially the ones not in wealthy families, the burgeois commodism of both clergy and laity satisfied with high middle class to rich families supporting parishes that are little less than cerimony halls, the acceptance of priests who are a just socially maladjusted when not frankly ill-intentioned people or defrocked Roman priests, or deffectors from Roman schisms, or radical ecumenists who promptly start to Romanize their churches in name of "inculturation", none of which have an Orthodox monastic or theological education, the acceptance of priests from Orthodox countries who were just exiled for bad behavior, when not for something even more serious, all in the name of "lack of priests", this all leads to a very high number of people who come seeking to learn, know more and are told to remain with Rome because they are "sister churches" or simply find out they have to learn everything by themselves *despite* the clergy, the hierarchy and the laity, not with them.

Never, ever, anyone built a monastery here. Never ever even a theological crash summer course, much less a theological school or seminary. No books translated. The "best" sources to learn about Orthodoxy are not-overtly-aggressive Roman or Uniate books which at best avoid a patronizing tone against the "oriental brothers" a term where they put both Orthodox and Non-Chalcedoneans in order to play down the unity of the Orthodox church. No single official translation of Liturgical materials. No where local to learn systematically how to serve a Liturgy, only through observation, which means basically stand there watch - which is the worst possible way for people who did not grow in an Orthodox culture. No schools or charities. Churches are literally chapels built attached to the ethnic association clubs and used mainly for baptisms and weddings, and by the way the "ekonomia" toward accepting divorced people has earned the Orthodox Church to be known in Brazil as "that church that marries divorced people", because just about anybody is accepted, usually being told they need to receive a "blessing" first that just happens to be Chrismation, but "it doesn't matter because we all worship the same God and the differences between the Churches are just misunderstandings caused by political greed". And of course, with a reasonable fee that varies from about 80 dollars to even above 1000 (and yes, in some cases it *is* charged in dollars).


The trouble with Orthodoxy in Brazil at least is that many in the laity, many in the clergy and even among high hierarchs will one day hear from the Lord: "But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye shut the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye enter not in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering in to enter." St. Mat 23:13

Today we are just part of the 0.2% classified as "Other religions". I am not saying that people would convert in waves like they do to Protestantism, but Orthodoxy and even non-Chalcedoneans could together account for 1 to 2% of the population (that's 2 to 4 million souls!), but there should have nothing short of a conversion of hearts among those who can do something. We need first to reeducate the current Orthodox. They have to understand that Orthodoxy is not just their parents exotic form of Roman Catholicism, that they are *not* the same church separated just by the grumpiness of dead political hawks, not only that there are significant differences, but that these differences *matter* in our spiritual lives and that the Orthodox Church and only her is the Church of Christ. That is one of the things evangelicals are not afraid of saying: here is Christ, He is not there. If you stay there, you will miss Him, so come and be with Him. The Orthodox Church, in Brazil, simply cannot bring itself to say that, even in fraternal, diplomatic ways. And, in the end of the day, that's why people are converting to Protestantism here, because they see Roman hierarchs (and that happens among the Orthodox too) trying to promote an institution, afraid of being polemical, afraid of the opinion of the public. Who can truly love Christ and even *bother* about what the public will say? Orthodox is dying in Brazil. Bishops are afraid there will be no churches here in less than a generation. We lost 8 members of the clergy just in the first quarter and there are not 30 clergy members in the country. But they are clueless about the causes. It's dying of Ecumenism, of trying to be just the "sister church" of Rome. And honestly, if the current trend needs to go to its awful end to finish off that infirmity and Orthodoxy may be reborn in a later generation knowing who we are, respectfully disagreeing with our fellow Christians, but firmly affirming that salvation is *here* and not there, and then it will grow from a healthy seed, so be it.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2014, 04:45:02 PM by Fabio Leite »
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Online Fabio Leite

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Re: About 100 Brazilians join the Syriac Orthodox Church
« Reply #18 on: January 29, 2015, 04:47:19 PM »
Just found some vídeos of the Syriac church in Brazil from a lay person's Youtube. That's what they do when they think noone is looking.

Novena
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj_wzaOUVDw

After sessions of miracles, people come to the front to give witness
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcBaMLggwFI

Routine Liturgy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jP-2kVypNI

But when it's an official event, and they believe it may be seen by foreign eyes they do it like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLtMjp7p_HA

And that's why they produce institutional vídeos like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYvbR3vgzug
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Offline CharalambisMakarios

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Re: About 100 Brazilians join the Syriac Orthodox Church
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2015, 04:16:05 PM »
"That is one of the things evangelicals are not afraid of saying: here is Christ, He is not there. If you stay there, you will miss Him, so come and be with Him."

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree on the broader point you're making. Isn't the Orthodox Church famous for saying "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not"?


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Re: About 100 Brazilians join the Syriac Orthodox Church
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2015, 05:47:52 PM »
Good God...
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

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Offline CharalambisMakarios

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Re: About 100 Brazilians join the Syriac Orthodox Church
« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2015, 06:19:23 PM »

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: About 100 Brazilians join the Syriac Orthodox Church
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2015, 06:24:30 PM »
I understand that the Syriac Church has much more on its plate at present than micromanaging a small number of vagante congregations with questionable practices received into the Faith in South America, but they shouldn't have received them at all if they weren't prepared to deliver the appropriate level of pastoral care to wean them off of heteropraxis and into lives of true Orthodoxy.  Light and darkness can't walk together.  Orthodoxy is light.  Charismatism is indisputably darkness.
Worship is theology, so a church which brings Evangelical and Charismatic "praise & worship" into its corporate life is no longer Orthodox.  It is, by definition, heterodox.  Those "Orthodox" leaders who make theological arguments for the incorporation of heteropraxis into the life of the Church are heretics.

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Re: About 100 Brazilians join the Syriac Orthodox Church
« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2015, 06:25:33 PM »
Good God...

Did I say something wrong?

I was responding to Fabio's links, not your post.  Sorry!
"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

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Offline CharalambisMakarios

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Re: About 100 Brazilians join the Syriac Orthodox Church
« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2015, 06:50:03 PM »
Ah, ok. It's all good.

Offline Peacemaker

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Re: About 100 Brazilians join the Syriac Orthodox Church
« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2015, 07:13:07 PM »
[Edited: Deleted my post for personal reasons]
« Last Edit: February 06, 2015, 07:15:38 PM by Peacemaker »

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"Do not tempt the Mor thy Mod."

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Bartholomew, 270th Archbishop of Constantinople-New Rome and Ecumenical Patriarch, is spiritual leader to 300 million Orthodox Christians throughout the world.

Offline hecma925

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Re: About 100 Brazilians join the Syriac Orthodox Church
« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2015, 07:34:27 PM »
So Novus Ordo with better vestments.  Cool.
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Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: About 100 Brazilians join the Syriac Orthodox Church
« Reply #28 on: February 06, 2015, 07:44:46 PM »
Not to be a complete fussbudget about this......but.

the 'wacky' videos were all from 2012 (unless the person has a time machine and can go back and post them)


the 'official videos' are from 2014. 

So there can be a lot more at play then just 'no one is looking'


Unless someone has been personally recently, we all really have no idea if perhaps they have been -normalized- more since the 2012 videos.

Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: About 100 Brazilians join the Syriac Orthodox Church
« Reply #29 on: February 07, 2015, 09:35:47 AM »
Good point, Denise.  And a ray of hope.  :)
Worship is theology, so a church which brings Evangelical and Charismatic "praise & worship" into its corporate life is no longer Orthodox.  It is, by definition, heterodox.  Those "Orthodox" leaders who make theological arguments for the incorporation of heteropraxis into the life of the Church are heretics.

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Offline wgw

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Re: About 100 Brazilians join the Syriac Orthodox Church
« Reply #30 on: February 07, 2015, 10:29:03 AM »
This marks the second major evangelical expansion of the Syriac church in Latin America, the first being in Guatemala.  I wish they'd get more active in the US.
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Offline CharalambisMakarios

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Re: About 100 Brazilians join the Syriac Orthodox Church
« Reply #31 on: February 12, 2015, 07:49:43 PM »
I understand that the Syriac Church has much more on its plate at present than micromanaging a small number of vagante congregations with questionable practices received into the Faith in South America, but they shouldn't have received them at all if they weren't prepared to deliver the appropriate level of pastoral care to wean them off of heteropraxis and into lives of true Orthodoxy.  Light and darkness can't walk together.  Orthodoxy is light.  Charismatism is indisputably darkness.

It will happen. I'm sure on the local level they will meet people where they are and bring them fully into the fold.

This marks the second major evangelical expansion of the Syriac church in Latin America, the first being in Guatemala.  I wish they'd get more active in the US.

I second that.

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Re: About 100 Brazilians join the Syriac Orthodox Church
« Reply #32 on: February 13, 2015, 10:28:44 AM »
Not to be a complete fussbudget about this......but.

the 'wacky' videos were all from 2012 (unless the person has a time machine and can go back and post them)


the 'official videos' are from 2014. 

So there can be a lot more at play then just 'no one is looking'


Unless someone has been personally recently, we all really have no idea if perhaps they have been -normalized- more since the 2012 videos.

The 2012 videos show exactly what people who go to that church used to tell me in 2014.

And it's the same as 10 years ago.

The only thing these "converts" do is to improve their Potemkin skills for the truly Syriac hierarchs.
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