Author Topic: Forget gay marriage: 'Fornicators and adulterers' in church a bigger issue  (Read 4370 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Jetavan

  • Argumentum ad australopithecum
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,786
  • Tenzin and Desmond
    • The Mystical Theology
Quote
Christians should clean up their own act before condemning gay marriage, said actor Kirk Cameron, who visits Alabama this month to lead marriage seminars.
....
"If the people sitting in the pews are fornicators and adulterers, the church will destroy marriages much more quickly than those outside the church. When God's people mock marriage, God doesn't take that lightly."

Cameron declined to criticize gay marriage and same-sex unions, saying that's not a priority.
....
"We need to be faithful in our own house," he said. "Jesus didn't go shouting at the Romans. He went into the temple. We have the same problem today that people had back then. We've had pastors drop like flies, guys I know. When that happens, it drags the name of Christ through the mud. When hypocrisy grows within the church, it's like pouring fertilizer on the weeds in your garden."

I disagree with his anti-evolutionism, but he was great in 'Growing Pains'.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2014, 01:31:22 PM by Jetavan »
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline hecma925

  • Non-clairvoyant, but you can call me Elder
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,989
  • Unbreakable! He's alive, dammit! It's a MIRACLE!
  • Faith: Truthful Chalcedonian Truther
  • Jurisdiction: Candle-lighting Cross Kisser
What's surprising is that he still has an audience that's willing to pay.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

Online Asteriktos

  • Lame!
  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 35,425
Huh. I would have found it hard to believe that I'd agree with Kirk on much, yet here it is...
Facts unloading, please to wait

Offline TheTrisagion

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,814
  • All good things come to an end
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Huh. I would have found it hard to believe that I'd agree with Kirk on much, yet here it is...
I greatly respect Kirk.  He was a visionary before his time.  Let us reflect on some of his quotes.

Leave bigotry in your quarters; there's no room for it on the bridge.

There's only one kind of woman...or man, for that matter. You either believe in yourself or you don't.

Worlds are conquered, galaxies destroyed...but a woman is always a woman.

There are certain things men must do to remain men.

*sigh*  I'm getting all nostalgic now.  I think I'll go watch Star Trek this evening.
God bless!

Offline hecma925

  • Non-clairvoyant, but you can call me Elder
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,989
  • Unbreakable! He's alive, dammit! It's a MIRACLE!
  • Faith: Truthful Chalcedonian Truther
  • Jurisdiction: Candle-lighting Cross Kisser
Huh. I would have found it hard to believe that I'd agree with Kirk on much, yet here it is...
I greatly respect Kirk.  He was a visionary before his time.  Let us reflect on some of his quotes.

Leave bigotry in your quarters; there's no room for it on the bridge.

There's only one kind of woman...or man, for that matter. You either believe in yourself or you don't.

Worlds are conquered, galaxies destroyed...but a woman is always a woman.

There are certain things men must do to remain men.

*sigh*  I'm getting all nostalgic now.  I think I'll go watch Star Trek this evening.

Wisdom....
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

Offline Cyrillic

  • Laser Basileus.
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,704
  • St. Theodoret of Cyrrhus, pray for us!
  • Jurisdiction: But my heart belongs to Finland
Quote
Cameron declined to criticize gay marriage and same-sex unions, saying that's not a priority.

That all sins are bad doesn't mean that some shouldn't be criticized because they're "not a priority". His logic stinks.

Offline Tallitot

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,957
    • USCJ
  • Faith: Jewish(Conservative)
I'm sure as more Americans support marriage equality, Evangelical Christians will back away from the issue.
Proverbs 22:7

Online Asteriktos

  • Lame!
  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 35,425
Quote
Cameron declined to criticize gay marriage and same-sex unions, saying that's not a priority.

That all sins are bad doesn't mean that some shouldn't be criticized because they're "not a priority". His logic stinks.

Maybe he didn't want to get dragged into the thousandth time that topic is discussed. Maybe he meant something along the lines of 'that is not a priority for me to speak about today,' knowing how people tend to fixate on gay marriage, and that once that cat is out of the bag that it wouldn't be possible to put it back in.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2014, 02:29:54 PM by Asteriktos »
Facts unloading, please to wait

Offline primuspilus

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 7,985
  • Inserting personal quote here.
    • St. Gregory the Theologian Orthodox Church
  • Faith: Greek Orthodox (former WR)
  • Jurisdiction: Greek Orthodox Metropolis of Boston
Kirk Cameron, the closest thing Baptists have to a saint...except for Tim Tebow.

PP
"I confidently affirm that whoever calls himself Universal Bishop is the precursor of Antichrist"
Gregory the Great

"Never, never, never let anyone tell you that, in order to be Orthodox, you must also be eastern." St. John Maximovitch, The Wonderworker

Offline Jetavan

  • Argumentum ad australopithecum
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,786
  • Tenzin and Desmond
    • The Mystical Theology
Kirk Cameron, the closest thing Baptists have to a saint...
...uh, that would be MLK, Jr.

And, no, saints are not perfect.  ;)
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Offline hecma925

  • Non-clairvoyant, but you can call me Elder
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,989
  • Unbreakable! He's alive, dammit! It's a MIRACLE!
  • Faith: Truthful Chalcedonian Truther
  • Jurisdiction: Candle-lighting Cross Kisser
Kirk Cameron, the closest thing Baptists have to a saint...
...uh, that would be MLK, Jr.

And, no, saints are not perfect.  ;)
Um, that blog only mentions Episcopalians and Lutherans.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

Offline Tallitot

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,957
    • USCJ
  • Faith: Jewish(Conservative)
Kirk Cameron, the closest thing Baptists have to a saint...
...uh, that would be MLK, Jr.

And, no, saints are not perfect.  ;)
Um, that blog only mentions Episcopalians and Lutherans.
But MLK was a Baptist.
Proverbs 22:7

Offline TheTrisagion

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,814
  • All good things come to an end
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Kirk Cameron, the closest thing Baptists have to a saint...
...uh, that would be MLK, Jr.

And, no, saints are not perfect.  ;)
Um, that blog only mentions Episcopalians and Lutherans.
But MLK was a Baptist.
Speaking as a former Baptist, I would say that most of the more conservative strains of Baptists do not look favorably upon him. Of course, there are about 80+ different Baptist denominations, so that really doesn't tell you much.
God bless!

Offline hecma925

  • Non-clairvoyant, but you can call me Elder
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 13,989
  • Unbreakable! He's alive, dammit! It's a MIRACLE!
  • Faith: Truthful Chalcedonian Truther
  • Jurisdiction: Candle-lighting Cross Kisser
Kirk Cameron, the closest thing Baptists have to a saint...
...uh, that would be MLK, Jr.

And, no, saints are not perfect.  ;)
Um, that blog only mentions Episcopalians and Lutherans.
But MLK was a Baptist.
Speaking as a former Baptist, I would say that most of the more conservative strains of Baptists do not look favorably upon him. Of course, there are about 80+ different Baptist denominations, so that really doesn't tell you much.

+1.  And with as many Independent Baptist churches that also happen to be homogenous and/or racist, good luck having them recognize MLK a saint.  Or any saint for that matter.  That be eye-doll-ah-tree, son.
Happy shall he be, that shall take and dash thy little ones against the rock. Alleluia.

Once Christ has filled the Cross, it can never be empty again.

"But God doesn't need your cookies!  Arrive on time!"

Offline minasoliman

  • Mr., Sir, Dude, Guy, Male, tr. Minas in Greek, Menes in white people Egyptologists :-P
  • Moderator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,694
  • Pray for me Sts. Mina & Kyrillos for my interviews
  • Faith: Oriental Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Coptic
Quote
Cameron declined to criticize gay marriage and same-sex unions, saying that's not a priority.

That all sins are bad doesn't mean that some shouldn't be criticized because they're "not a priority". His logic stinks.

Ya, he was being politically correct at that moment, but I think overall the quoted OP seems to be something I tend to agree with.  Increased divorce rates, adultery, and fornication became socially acceptable before gay marriage.  I think the underlying problem that lead to gay marriage is not gay predispositions, but an overall destruction of the very fabric of marriage itself, leading to a vain understanding of what "marriage" is in the secular world.
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline ialmisry

  • There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
  • Strategos
  • ******************
  • Posts: 41,171
I'm sure as more Americans support marriage equality, Evangelical Christians will back away from the issue.
and contribute to accelerate societal collapse.  After all, they paved the way with divorce.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2014, 06:39:47 PM by ialmisry »
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline orthonorm

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,715
  • Ad Aluminum!
  • Faith: DSM 5
  • Jurisdiction: Apostle to the Church of ASD
I'm sure as more Americans support marriage equality, Evangelical Christians will back away from the issue.
and contribute to accelerate societal collapse.  After all, they paved the way with divorce.

Your life isn't society.
January 23, 2016, 03:47:17 PM   Ad Hominem - "mere foil"   +45

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foil_(literature)

Offline Nephi

  • Protokentarchos
  • *********
  • Posts: 4,825
  • A non-Chalcedonian in Chalcedonian clothing.
  • Faith: Orthodox
Quote
Cameron declined to criticize gay marriage and same-sex unions, saying that's not a priority.

That all sins are bad doesn't mean that some shouldn't be criticized because they're "not a priority". His logic stinks.

Ya, he was being politically correct at that moment, but I think overall the quoted OP seems to be something I tend to agree with.  Increased divorce rates, adultery, and fornication became socially acceptable before gay marriage.  I think the underlying problem that lead to gay marriage is not gay predispositions, but an overall destruction of the very fabric of marriage itself, leading to a vain understanding of what "marriage" is in the secular world.

I think I agree. It seems to make more sense that gay marriage is not directly a cause, but a symptom, of the collapse of marriage.

Offline ialmisry

  • There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
  • Strategos
  • ******************
  • Posts: 41,171
I'm sure as more Americans support marriage equality, Evangelical Christians will back away from the issue.
and contribute to accelerate societal collapse.  After all, they paved the way with divorce.

Your life isn't society.
You're right: my sons are legitimate.
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline scamandrius

  • A man of many, many turns
  • Merarches
  • ***********
  • Posts: 9,168
  • Faith: Greek Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: DOWAMA of AANA
Quote
Cameron declined to criticize gay marriage and same-sex unions, saying that's not a priority.

That all sins are bad doesn't mean that some shouldn't be criticized because they're "not a priority". His logic stinks.

Or not "politically correct."
Da quod iubes et iube quod vis.

Online Asteriktos

  • Lame!
  • Hypatos
  • *****************
  • Posts: 35,425
I dunno, it seemed quite politically incorrect to me, taking into consideration the politics of conservative Christianity.
Facts unloading, please to wait

Offline minasoliman

  • Mr., Sir, Dude, Guy, Male, tr. Minas in Greek, Menes in white people Egyptologists :-P
  • Moderator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,694
  • Pray for me Sts. Mina & Kyrillos for my interviews
  • Faith: Oriental Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Coptic
I dunno, it seemed quite politically incorrect to me, taking into consideration the politics of conservative Christianity.

Good point, but I think he was trying to attract the opposition with his double message of "I'm not concentrating on that right now" and "wo to you Christian fornicators and divorcees, hypocrites!"
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline orthonorm

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,715
  • Ad Aluminum!
  • Faith: DSM 5
  • Jurisdiction: Apostle to the Church of ASD
I'm sure as more Americans support marriage equality, Evangelical Christians will back away from the issue.
and contribute to accelerate societal collapse.  After all, they paved the way with divorce.

Your life isn't society.
You're right: my sons are legitimate.

I guess the government knowing who a kid's parent is more important than the kid knowing who they are. Strange twist coming from you.
January 23, 2016, 03:47:17 PM   Ad Hominem - "mere foil"   +45

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foil_(literature)

Offline Tallitot

  • Archon
  • ********
  • Posts: 2,957
    • USCJ
  • Faith: Jewish(Conservative)
I'm sure as more Americans support marriage equality, Evangelical Christians will back away from the issue.
and contribute to accelerate societal collapse.  After all, they paved the way with divorce.
Right, because heterosexuals never got divorces before. At least divorce is something you know about.
Proverbs 22:7

Offline ialmisry

  • There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
  • Strategos
  • ******************
  • Posts: 41,171
I'm sure as more Americans support marriage equality, Evangelical Christians will back away from the issue.
and contribute to accelerate societal collapse.  After all, they paved the way with divorce.

Your life isn't society.
You're right: my sons are legitimate.

I guess the government knowing who a kid's parent is more important than the kid knowing who they are. Strange twist coming from you.
Last year, 40% of children in the US not living with their father (an ever increasing number) had not set foot in their father's house, a large number not even seeing him the entire year.
Good luck on them knowing who they are.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2014, 10:40:55 PM by ialmisry »
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline ialmisry

  • There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
  • Strategos
  • ******************
  • Posts: 41,171
I'm sure as more Americans support marriage equality, Evangelical Christians will back away from the issue.
and contribute to accelerate societal collapse.  After all, they paved the way with divorce.
Right, because heterosexuals never got divorces before. At least divorce is something you know about.
LOL.
The more you harp on that one note, the more you prove my point on this issue.
It takes only one person to get a divorce, it takes two people of opposite gender to make a marriage.

btw, in IL, as in NY, they had "same sex divorce" before they had redefined marriage.  In fact, in IL the first homosexual "divorcing" his "partner" filed two years ago.  Marriage isn't officially redefined in IL until next month.
How apropos!
« Last Edit: May 07, 2014, 10:43:53 PM by ialmisry »
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline JamesRottnek

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,256
  • I am Bibleman; putting 'the' back in the Ukraine
I'm sure as more Americans support marriage equality, Evangelical Christians will back away from the issue.
and contribute to accelerate societal collapse.  After all, they paved the way with divorce.
Right, because heterosexuals never got divorces before. At least divorce is something you know about.
LOL.
The more you harp on that one note, the more you prove my point on this issue.
It takes only one person to get a divorce, it takes two people of opposite gender to make a marriage.

btw, in IL, as in NY, they had "same sex divorce" before they had redefined marriage.  In fact, in IL the first homosexual "divorcing" his "partner" filed two years ago.  Marriage isn't officially redefined in IL until next month.
How apropos!

My mother's been through two divorces; two of my sisters are divorced.  Trust me, it takes two to divorce, but usually both parties think it only takes one.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2014, 03:23:34 AM by JamesRottnek »
"Homosexuality has been a popular topic, but not Satanic trances."

American Spirits - the eco-friendly cigarette.

Preston Robert Kinney (September 8th, 1997-August 14, 2011

Offline ialmisry

  • There's nothing John of Damascus can't answer
  • Strategos
  • ******************
  • Posts: 41,171
I'm sure as more Americans support marriage equality, Evangelical Christians will back away from the issue.
and contribute to accelerate societal collapse.  After all, they paved the way with divorce.
Right, because heterosexuals never got divorces before. At least divorce is something you know about.
LOL.
The more you harp on that one note, the more you prove my point on this issue.
It takes only one person to get a divorce, it takes two people of opposite gender to make a marriage.

btw, in IL, as in NY, they had "same sex divorce" before they had redefined marriage.  In fact, in IL the first homosexual "divorcing" his "partner" filed two years ago.  Marriage isn't officially redefined in IL until next month.
How apropos!

My mother's been through two divorces; two of my sisters are divorced.  Trust me, it takes two to divorce, but usually both parties think it only takes one.
No, it takes only one. Besides the admission by the ad hominem crowd that divorce (as opposed to my parents or siblings, though you can trust them when they say the same answer as mine) "is something [ I ] know about," and the same judgement of my ex's father confessor and our counselor (and, it would seem, our son's psychologist-although he hasn't come out and said it, he has said plenty on their mother), there is plenty of data that the divorce courts of this country churn out.  Let alone the plain language of the divorces statutes.

"Usually" doesn't mean "always."  I'm not sure of this issue if you can even substantiate it meaning "mostly."

The same ad hominem ilk used to point out that Reagan was divorced when he promoted family values.  Not something pertinent, mind you, like he signed the first no fault divorce law while governor of California (something he (and his son) said he regretted when he saw what he unleashed).  No, a personal attack because they couldn't argue the facts on the matter.  That his ex remarried and divorced after him-as she had married before him-and the number of years of their marriage outnumbered the number of years of her other marriages put together, while he remarried for over half a century until his death, would suggest a rather lopsided allotment of responsibility for the divorce.

Mel Gibson said the he alone bore the responsibility of his divorce.  Given his behavior, is there any contrary evidence?
« Last Edit: May 08, 2014, 08:06:00 AM by ialmisry »
Question a friend, perhaps he did not do it; but if he did anything so that he may do it no more.
A hasty quarrel kindles fire,
and urgent strife sheds blood.
If you blow on a spark, it will glow;
if you spit on it, it will be put out;
                           and both come out of your mouth

Offline Peter J

  • still a CAF poster
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,457
  • Faith: Christian
Forgive me for posting on an old thread, but what does "a bigger issue" mean?
- Peter Jericho

Offline minasoliman

  • Mr., Sir, Dude, Guy, Male, tr. Minas in Greek, Menes in white people Egyptologists :-P
  • Moderator
  • Stratopedarches
  • *****
  • Posts: 19,694
  • Pray for me Sts. Mina & Kyrillos for my interviews
  • Faith: Oriental Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Coptic
A comic book that is more expensive than a previous work of the same title?

 8)
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline Porter ODoran

  • PHILIA NIKA
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 11,074
  • St. John the Beloved, pray for me
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: GOAA
Quote
Christians should clean up their own act before condemning gay marriage, said actor Kirk Cameron, who visits Alabama this month to lead marriage seminars.
....
"If the people sitting in the pews are fornicators and adulterers, the church will destroy marriages much more quickly than those outside the church. When God's people mock marriage, God doesn't take that lightly."

Cameron declined to criticize gay marriage and same-sex unions, saying that's not a priority.
....
"We need to be faithful in our own house," he said. "Jesus didn't go shouting at the Romans. He went into the temple. We have the same problem today that people had back then. We've had pastors drop like flies, guys I know. When that happens, it drags the name of Christ through the mud. When hypocrisy grows within the church, it's like pouring fertilizer on the weeds in your garden."

I disagree with his anti-evolutionism, but he was great in 'Growing Pains'.

It's okay, you're not on Reddit here. You can like things you like.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Alpha60

  • The Confederate Flag Is Diabolical and Blasphemous
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,150
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox
Huh. I would have found it hard to believe that I'd agree with Kirk on much, yet here it is...
I greatly respect Kirk.  He was a visionary before his time.  Let us reflect on some of his quotes.

Leave bigotry in your quarters; there's no room for it on the bridge.

There's only one kind of woman...or man, for that matter. You either believe in yourself or you don't.

Worlds are conquered, galaxies destroyed...but a woman is always a woman.

There are certain things men must do to remain men.

*sigh*  I'm getting all nostalgic now.  I think I'll go watch Star Trek this evening.

Wisdom....

Indeed so.  Another one I liked was his speech in A Taste of Armageddon, "We're human beings with the blood of a million savage years on our hands, but we can stop it. We can admit that we're killers, but we're not going to kill today. That's all it takes. Knowing that we won't kill today."

I wish that more radical Muslims had seen that episode, frankly.

~

Regarding the lesser Kirk, Mr. Cameron, who my uncle knows and is a fan of (he apparently lives in my hometown and patronizes the local McDonalds, which explains why I've never seen him, nor would I want to; dining in nice restaurants does have its advantages), on this point he is completely wrong, because all homosexual acts are a form of fornication or adultery.  You cannot have gay sex without fornicating, or committing adultery. 

Now, we don't need to harrangue homosexual couples, or picket funerals, or otherwise reduce ourselves to the level of Westboro Baptist Church.  But within the Orthodox Church, our homilies and catechesis cannot shy away from this truth.   We need to catechize our youth, who are being bombarded in entertainment media directed at them, and at school, with material advocating the benefits of gay marriage or celebrating homosexuality as a lifestyle choice, or now, increasingly, transgenderism, explaining to them that this activity is wrong, unnatural, and contrary to the teachings of the Church, and at the same time we should also stress that the same is true about heterosexual fornication and adultery.

"Orthosexuality," that is to say, procreative sex within a loving monogamous marriage, a marriage that either through reproduction or adoption will hopefully create a happy, loving family, that is an icon of the Holy Trinity, is the only form of sexuality the church blesses and encourages.  Everything else is a sin, which we can cleanse ourselves of through confession.
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

- The computer Alpha 60, from Alphaville (1964) by Jean Luc Godard, the obvious inspiration for HAL-9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.

Offline TheTrisagion

  • Hoplitarches
  • *************
  • Posts: 17,814
  • All good things come to an end
  • Faith: Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: Antiochian
"Orthosexuality"?

Let's not make that a word.
God bless!

Offline Jetavan

  • Argumentum ad australopithecum
  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,786
  • Tenzin and Desmond
    • The Mystical Theology
"Orthosexuality"?

Let's not make that a word.
Orthodox is to heterodox
As
Orthosexuality is to heterosexuality.
If you will, you can become all flame.
Extra caritatem nulla salus.
In order to become whole, take the "I" out of "holiness".
सर्वभूतहित
Ἄνω σχῶμεν τὰς καρδίας
"Those who say religion has nothing to do with politics do not know what religion is." -- Mohandas Gandhi
Y dduw bo'r diolch.

Online augustin717

  • Taxiarches
  • **********
  • Posts: 6,357
  • Faith: Higher Criticism
  • Jurisdiction: Dutch
"Orthosexuality"?

Let's not make that a word.
do it without passion!
She hears, upon that water without sound,
A voice that cries, “The tomb in Palestine
Is not the porch of spirits lingering.
It is the grave of Jesus, where he lay.”
We live in an old chaos of the sun,
Or old dependency of day and night,
Or island solitude, unsponsored, free,
Of that wide water, inescapable.

Offline Porter ODoran

  • PHILIA NIKA
  • Toumarches
  • ************
  • Posts: 11,074
  • St. John the Beloved, pray for me
  • Faith: Eastern Orthodox
  • Jurisdiction: GOAA
Indeed so.  Another one I liked was his speech in A Taste of Armageddon, "We're human beings with the blood of a million savage years on our hands, but we can stop it. We can admit that we're killers, but we're not going to kill today. That's all it takes. Knowing that we won't kill today."

We're not inheritors of original sin, but more importantly that's not how salvation works.

Quote
I wish that more radical Muslims had seen that episode, frankly.

Right. Because they're the only ones who kill, and all billion of them are killers. ::)

Quote
... on this point he is completely wrong, because all homosexual acts are a form of fornication or adultery.  You cannot have gay sex without fornicating, or committing adultery.

Evidently by "completely wrong" you mean "not in technical conformance with useless pedantry."

Quote
Now, we don't need to harrangue homosexual couples, or picket funerals, or otherwise reduce ourselves to the level of Westboro Baptist Church.  But within the Orthodox Church, our homilies and catechesis cannot shy away from this truth.   We need to catechize our youth, who are being bombarded in entertainment media directed at them, and at school, with material advocating the benefits of gay marriage or celebrating homosexuality as a lifestyle choice, or now, increasingly, transgenderism, explaining to them that this activity is wrong, unnatural, and contrary to the teachings of the Church, and at the same time we should also stress that the same is true about heterosexual fornication and adultery.

Good luck. Talk isn't the way to save children.

Quote
"Orthosexuality," that is to say, procreative sex within a loving monogamous marriage, a marriage that either through reproduction or adoption will hopefully create a happy, loving family, that is an icon of the Holy Trinity, is the only form of sexuality the church blesses and encourages.  Everything else is a sin, which we can cleanse ourselves of through confession.

The Trinity is an icon of sexuality? Married sex that's not procreative is a sin? We have no recourse but confession against sin? I'm confused to put it mildly.
"Love ... is an abyss of illumination, a mountain of fire ... . It is the condition of angels, the progress of eternity" (Climacus).

Quote from: Seekingtrue
Yes we who are far from sainthood we can recognize a living saint and I'm talking from personal experience.Yes they are gentle soo gentle it can not be described it is like gentleness and humility in one and also they have this light this energy it's beyond words...and when you are near them you feel ecstatic and very happy

Offline Alpha60

  • The Confederate Flag Is Diabolical and Blasphemous
  • OC.net guru
  • *******
  • Posts: 1,150
  • Faith: Christian
  • Jurisdiction: Orthodox
Indeed so.  Another one I liked was his speech in A Taste of Armageddon, "We're human beings with the blood of a million savage years on our hands, but we can stop it. We can admit that we're killers, but we're not going to kill today. That's all it takes. Knowing that we won't kill today."

We're not inheritors of original sin, but more importantly that's not how salvation works.


Whereas the Orthodox doctrine of original sin is not the Augustinian one, we still believe in it, although some have proposed alternative terminology.  What you say, in contrast, sounds Pelagian to me, denyimg tne fallen condition of humanity and ancestral sin. 

But Kirk was not talking about sin, which given his promiscuity is probably good, as that would make him rather a hypocrite, but instead, resisting the urge to murder someone.

Murder is hard, and even given the fallen human nature, hmans still find it instinctively, biologically difficult to commit murder.  We still do it, and we still wage war, in spite of the Gospel, so that is some egg on our face.

Quote

Quote
I wish that more radical Muslims had seen that episode, frankly.

Right. Because they're the only ones who kill, and all billion of them are killers. ::)



I dont believe there are a billion radical Muslims who want to kill Christians.   At most, maybe 50 million, and thats a high number.   I think a more realistic figure given the size of ISIL, its growth rate and historical factors would be 10-20 million radicals, and they also want to kill other Muslims.

Quote

Quote
... on this point he is completely wrong, because all homosexual acts are a form of fornication or adultery.  You cannot have gay sex without fornicating, or committing adultery.

Evidently by "completely wrong" you mean "not in technical conformance with useless pedantry."

Quote
Now, we don't need to harrangue homosexual couples, or picket funerals, or otherwise reduce ourselves to the level of Westboro Baptist Church.  But within the Orthodox Church, our homilies and catechesis cannot shy away from this truth.   We need to catechize our youth, who are being bombarded in entertainment media directed at them, and at school, with material advocating the benefits of gay marriage or celebrating homosexuality as a lifestyle choice, or now, increasingly, transgenderism, explaining to them that this activity is wrong, unnatural, and contrary to the teachings of the Church, and at the same time we should also stress that the same is true about heterosexual fornication and adultery.

Good luck. Talk isn't the way to save children.


So the Orthodox sunday school and youth educations presently run by a great many parishes, which do teach our youth about the Orthodox teachings on sex and marriage, among other things, you would discontinue?

Quote

Quote
"Orthosexuality," that is to say, procreative sex within a loving monogamous marriage, a marriage that either through reproduction or adoption will hopefully create a happy, loving family, that is an icon of the Holy Trinity, is the only form of sexuality the church blesses and encourages.  Everything else is a sin, which we can cleanse ourselves of through confession.

The Trinity is an icon of sexuality? Married sex that's not procreative is a sin? We have no recourse but confession against sin? I'm confused to put it mildly.

In his book, The Orthodox Way, Metropolitan Kallistos Ware, from your own Ecumenical Patriarchate, from the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of Thyateira and Great Britain, says that humans are called to form an icon of the Holy Trinity in our relationships with other humans.  Every marriage, every family, every church parish, the Church as a whole, and every other form of human relationship should seek to develop the kind of altruistic love that exists between the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. 

This has nothing to do specifically with sexuality;  sex is an aspect of the marital union and married couples are to form an icon of the Trinity by virtue of their love for one another, to which normal sexuality, as opposed to sodomy (what I meant by "procreative sex") can contribute.  Sex is not love, however, and it is the love between the members of the Trinity that we are trying to emulate.  And this iconographic depiction or emulation of the divine love between the persons of the Trinity is, again, not confined to marriage, but should extend to all human relationships.

I am not Metropolitan Kallistos Ware, so Im not going to do as good a job expressing the concept as His Eminence did, so I suggest you read The Orthodox Way instead, the chapter God as Trinity, I think, or God as Love.   The Orthodox Way is my favorite book by His Eminence; its much more interesting and spiritually instructive than The Orthodox Church, which is more of an introductory text, a very good introductory text, by the way.
"It is logical that the actions of the human race over time will lead to its destruction.  I, Alpha 60, am merely the agent of this destruction."

- The computer Alpha 60, from Alphaville (1964) by Jean Luc Godard, the obvious inspiration for HAL-9000 from 2001: A Space Odyssey. 

This signature is not intended to offend any user, nor the relatives of Discovery 1 deputy commander Dr. Frank Poole,  and crew members Dr. Victor Kaminsky, Dr. Jack Kimball, and Dr. Charles Hunter.