Author Topic: Matthew Heimbach - the next Brother Nathanael?  (Read 224630 times)

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Offline Amatorus

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Re: Matthew Heimbach - the next Brother Nathanael?
« Reply #945 on: July 18, 2014, 03:24:17 PM »
All I can say is the "Chosen People" are Christians and the particular group who claims such a title these days are just Khazars who force-bred with a bunch of Slavs and then other peoples over the years. The real Hebrews all either bred out or converted to Christianity and Islam.

Got evidence?
http://www.rense.com/general89/notjws.htm
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/jews.htm
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/13trindx.htm

I'm glad you asked, I have even more resources at my disposal. And yes, they breed within themselves now after adopting radical Talmudism, but back in the early Khazar days rape and pillage was quite popular among that nomadic kingdom.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2014, 03:28:50 PM by Amatorus »

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Matthew Heimbach - the next Brother Nathanael?
« Reply #946 on: July 18, 2014, 03:28:21 PM »
All I can say is the "Chosen People" are Christians and the particular group who claims such a title these days are just Khazars who force-bred with a bunch of Slavs and then other peoples over the years. The real Hebrews all either bred out or converted to Christianity and Islam.

Got evidence?
http://www.rense.com/general89/notjws.htm
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/jews.htm
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/13trindx.htm

I'm glad you asked, I have even more resources at my disposal.
I recommend you read up on Arthur Koestler before you start considering him an authoritative expert on the subject.
God bless!

Offline Punch

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Re: Matthew Heimbach - the next Brother Nathanael?
« Reply #947 on: July 18, 2014, 03:29:07 PM »
These two individuals remind me of the Confederate Army colonel who founded the KKK.
<or perhaps I'm wrong?>
-- perhaps a similarity in outlook, at any rate...

I believe the highest ranked founder was a Major, and the first Grand Dragon was a Lt. General.
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline Amatorus

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Re: Matthew Heimbach - the next Brother Nathanael?
« Reply #948 on: July 18, 2014, 03:31:00 PM »
All I can say is the "Chosen People" are Christians and the particular group who claims such a title these days are just Khazars who force-bred with a bunch of Slavs and then other peoples over the years. The real Hebrews all either bred out or converted to Christianity and Islam.

Got evidence?
http://www.rense.com/general89/notjws.htm
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/jews.htm
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/13trindx.htm

I'm glad you asked, I have even more resources at my disposal.
I recommend you read up on Arthur Koestler before you start considering him an authoritative expert on the subject.

An author of nonfiction does not have to push one of his beliefs to share with readers.

Offline Amatorus

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Re: Matthew Heimbach - the next Brother Nathanael?
« Reply #949 on: July 18, 2014, 03:32:54 PM »

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Matthew Heimbach - the next Brother Nathanael?
« Reply #950 on: July 18, 2014, 03:45:36 PM »
So I guess we are going to discuss this.

Arthur Koestler's book only addresses the Ashkenazi Jews, not all claims of Jews. Moreover, DNA research has demonstrated that while the Ashkenazi Jews do have some Kazar ancestors, there is also demonstrable evidence of Semitic roots as well. This is hardly suprising as any ethnic group that is interspersed within another group is bound to have some intermarriage. Rather than finding really hokey websites to support silly claims, it makes far more sense to read the actual study that was done.

http://gbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/5/1/61

Abstract of report
Quote
The question of Jewish ancestry has been the subject of controversy for over two centuries and has yet to be resolved. The “Rhineland hypothesis” depicts Eastern European Jews as a “population isolate” that emerged from a small group of German Jews who migrated eastward and expanded rapidly. Alternatively, the “Khazarian hypothesis” suggests that Eastern European Jews descended from the Khazars, an amalgam of Turkic clans that settled the Caucasus in the early centuries CE and converted to Judaism in the 8th century. Mesopotamian and Greco–Roman Jews continuously reinforced the Judaized empire until the 13th century. Following the collapse of their empire, the Judeo–Khazars fled to Eastern Europe. The rise of European Jewry is therefore explained by the contribution of the Judeo–Khazars. Thus far, however, the Khazars’ contribution has been estimated only empirically, as the absence of genome-wide data from Caucasus populations precluded testing the Khazarian hypothesis. Recent sequencing of modern Caucasus populations prompted us to revisit the Khazarian hypothesis and compare it with the Rhineland hypothesis. We applied a wide range of population genetic analyses to compare these two hypotheses. Our findings support the Khazarian hypothesis and portray the European Jewish genome as a mosaic of Near Eastern-Caucasus, European, and Semitic ancestries, thereby consolidating previous contradictory reports of Jewish ancestry. We further describe a major difference among Caucasus populations explained by the early presence of Judeans in the Southern and Central Caucasus. Our results have important implications for the demographic forces that shaped the genetic diversity in the Caucasus and for medical studies.
God bless!

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Matthew Heimbach - the next Brother Nathanael?
« Reply #951 on: July 18, 2014, 03:50:58 PM »
And another source (read up on this one):
http://educate-yourself.org/cn/texemarrskhazarianjews08mar13.shtml
LOL - Texe Marrs.



From the same website.

Quote
Articles on Hydrogen Peroxide (and MMS)

You can still read about and use hydrogen peroxide as suggested in the articles posted here, but FIRST look into the basic science of MMS as your primary at-home oxidative therapy because it's gaining a reputation for CURING just about every disease condition in the book, from 4th stage cancer to AIDS, to diabetes, to malaria, etc. I highly recommened that you first read this basic tutorial explaining what MMS is and how to make it:
« Last Edit: July 18, 2014, 03:51:43 PM by TheTrisagion »
God bless!

Offline Punch

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Re: Matthew Heimbach - the next Brother Nathanael?
« Reply #952 on: July 18, 2014, 03:56:17 PM »
And another source (read up on this one):
http://educate-yourself.org/cn/texemarrskhazarianjews08mar13.shtml

Don't forget "Foundations of Human Hereditary Teaching and Racial Hygene" by Fischer, Bauer, and Lenz

and

"Die Jugenfrage" by Gerhard Kittel
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline Amatorus

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Re: Matthew Heimbach - the next Brother Nathanael?
« Reply #953 on: July 18, 2014, 03:57:05 PM »
So I guess we are going to discuss this.

Arthur Koestler's book only addresses the Ashkenazi Jews, not all claims of Jews. Moreover, DNA research has demonstrated that while the Ashkenazi Jews do have some Kazar ancestors, there is also demonstrable evidence of Semitic roots as well. This is hardly suprising as any ethnic group that is interspersed within another group is bound to have some intermarriage. Rather than finding really hokey websites to support silly claims, it makes far more sense to read the actual study that was done.

http://gbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/5/1/61

Abstract of report
Quote
The question of Jewish ancestry has been the subject of controversy for over two centuries and has yet to be resolved. The “Rhineland hypothesis” depicts Eastern European Jews as a “population isolate” that emerged from a small group of German Jews who migrated eastward and expanded rapidly. Alternatively, the “Khazarian hypothesis” suggests that Eastern European Jews descended from the Khazars, an amalgam of Turkic clans that settled the Caucasus in the early centuries CE and converted to Judaism in the 8th century. Mesopotamian and Greco–Roman Jews continuously reinforced the Judaized empire until the 13th century. Following the collapse of their empire, the Judeo–Khazars fled to Eastern Europe. The rise of European Jewry is therefore explained by the contribution of the Judeo–Khazars. Thus far, however, the Khazars’ contribution has been estimated only empirically, as the absence of genome-wide data from Caucasus populations precluded testing the Khazarian hypothesis. Recent sequencing of modern Caucasus populations prompted us to revisit the Khazarian hypothesis and compare it with the Rhineland hypothesis. We applied a wide range of population genetic analyses to compare these two hypotheses. Our findings support the Khazarian hypothesis and portray the European Jewish genome as a mosaic of Near Eastern-Caucasus, European, and Semitic ancestries, thereby consolidating previous contradictory reports of Jewish ancestry. We further describe a major difference among Caucasus populations explained by the early presence of Judeans in the Southern and Central Caucasus. Our results have important implications for the demographic forces that shaped the genetic diversity in the Caucasus and for medical studies.



OBJECTION!

While your source seems at first glance to tie up loose ends, the fact is it leaves much to be desired.
Consider this empirical observation; if it is true that these people do have some semblance of Semitic roots, have you not considered that this is from the Bulanids (ruling first dynasty of the Khazars) took Semitic concubines when they adopted Babylonian Talmudism while scouting the Middle East? REMEMBER, this was no ordinary sedentary kingdom, but a nomadic confederation turned absolute. Turko-Mongols infiltratong the Middle East are no tale barred before the Khans came; for example, Abu' Jafar Ashinas was a top governor of Egypt in the 9th century (same era as Khazars) who is descended from the Ashina clan (same clan of origin as Bulan of Khazaria). FURTHERMORE, even if you are right by all accounts, their genes are so diluted from the days of David that to say "YHWH" find them the pure "Chosen People" instead of the Christians is objectively and theologically absurd. Arabs, nay, even Turks would share more Semitic blood than these white-passing Talmudists, don't you agree?

So what possible claim is left? None, I say!

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Matthew Heimbach - the next Brother Nathanael?
« Reply #954 on: July 18, 2014, 04:01:30 PM »
Objection overuled - Speculative and contrary to the findings of your own expert testimony which clearly states Judeans. Further, it fails to address the other branches of Judeaism which had no contact with the Khazars.
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Offline Amatorus

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Re: Matthew Heimbach - the next Brother Nathanael?
« Reply #955 on: July 18, 2014, 04:12:54 PM »
Objection overuled - Speculative and contrary to the findings of your own expert testimony which clearly states Judeans. Further, it fails to address the other branches of Judeaism which had no contact with the Khazars.

What is left besides Sephardi and Ethiopians? Many of the former were early mediæval converts, and the latter are irrelevant as, well, they're Africans and although I am not an expert on their genealogy if they do have "blood of Solomon" they don't try to push ridiculous claims. Furthermore, these groups are the minority.

You should be grateful for being Christian, the Old Covenant was dissolved so all these claims are invalid and when I think about it, this argument is pointless. There is a critical point of ambiguity where the subject turns moot, and I'm tired. I guess the point is this: be glad you're carrying the real faith.

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Matthew Heimbach - the next Brother Nathanael?
« Reply #956 on: July 18, 2014, 04:50:08 PM »
Objection overuled - Speculative and contrary to the findings of your own expert testimony which clearly states Judeans. Further, it fails to address the other branches of Judeaism which had no contact with the Khazars.

What is left besides Sephardi and Ethiopians? Many of the former were early mediæval converts, and the latter are irrelevant as, well, they're Africans and although I am not an expert on their genealogy if they do have "blood of Solomon" they don't try to push ridiculous claims. Furthermore, these groups are the minority.

You should be grateful for being Christian, the Old Covenant was dissolved so all these claims are invalid and when I think about it, this argument is pointless. There is a critical point of ambiguity where the subject turns moot, and I'm tired. I guess the point is this: be glad you're carrying the real faith.
lol, I am grateful I am Christian, so the discussion is more academic than anything.  I do, however, feel that the Jews get an awfully bad rap on this forum (not saying you, but a glance in the politics forum can be quite disturbing). So while in most settings, I am by no means a Judeophile, on here, I try to take the more moderate approach.
God bless!

Offline minasoliman

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Re: Matthew Heimbach - the next Brother Nathanael?
« Reply #957 on: July 18, 2014, 04:57:41 PM »
I think there might be a slight misunderstanding.  It seems to me a frustration over a nation's policies confused with bigotry over a race or religious group.  Many times you see similar unanswered frustration from the other side, but it doesn't get the same criticism.  And many times the accusation of bigotry makes the situation even more frustrating.

That is not denying that there is some underlying bigotry, yes!  But I think the bigotry, just as much as a non-bigotous disagreement and frustration, is mutual in the situation you bring up.
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Offline Amatorus

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Re: Matthew Heimbach - the next Brother Nathanael?
« Reply #958 on: July 18, 2014, 05:08:07 PM »
Objection overuled - Speculative and contrary to the findings of your own expert testimony which clearly states Judeans. Further, it fails to address the other branches of Judeaism which had no contact with the Khazars.

What is left besides Sephardi and Ethiopians? Many of the former were early mediæval converts, and the latter are irrelevant as, well, they're Africans and although I am not an expert on their genealogy if they do have "blood of Solomon" they don't try to push ridiculous claims. Furthermore, these groups are the minority.

You should be grateful for being Christian, the Old Covenant was dissolved so all these claims are invalid and when I think about it, this argument is pointless. There is a critical point of ambiguity where the subject turns moot, and I'm tired. I guess the point is this: be glad you're carrying the real faith.

lol, I am grateful I am Christian, so the discussion is more academic than anything.  I do, however, feel that the Jews get an awfully bad rap on this forum (not saying you, but a glance in the politics forum can be quite disturbing). So while in most settings, I am by no means a Judeophile, on here, I try to take the more moderate approach.

Well I have never been on the politics forum and I never want to. :s I have nothing else to say sorry
« Last Edit: July 18, 2014, 05:08:32 PM by Amatorus »

Offline john_mo

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Re: Matthew Heimbach - the next Brother Nathanael?
« Reply #959 on: July 19, 2014, 08:33:03 AM »
Objection overuled - Speculative and contrary to the findings of your own expert testimony which clearly states Judeans. Further, it fails to address the other branches of Judeaism which had no contact with the Khazars.

What is left besides Sephardi and Ethiopians? Many of the former were early mediæval converts, and the latter are irrelevant as, well, they're Africans and although I am not an expert on their genealogy if they do have "blood of Solomon" they don't try to push ridiculous claims. Furthermore, these groups are the minority.

You should be grateful for being Christian, the Old Covenant was dissolved so all these claims are invalid and when I think about it, this argument is pointless. There is a critical point of ambiguity where the subject turns moot, and I'm tired. I guess the point is this: be glad you're carrying the real faith.

lol, I am grateful I am Christian, so the discussion is more academic than anything.  I do, however, feel that the Jews get an awfully bad rap on this forum (not saying you, but a glance in the politics forum can be quite disturbing). So while in most settings, I am by no means a Judeophile, on here, I try to take the more moderate approach.

Well I have never been on the politics forum and I never want to. :s I have nothing else to say sorry

I'm somewhat upset that the back and forth over this issue of race ended so quickly and civilly.  D'ya think we could argue about this some more?  Let's try and add another 3 pages to this thread by Monday.  This is the internet.
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Offline rakovsky

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Re: Matthew Heimbach - the next Brother Nathanael?
« Reply #960 on: July 19, 2014, 11:50:56 AM »
lol, I am grateful I am Christian, so the discussion is more academic than anything.  I do, however, feel that the Jews get an awfully bad rap on this forum (not saying you, but a glance in the politics forum can be quite disturbing). So while in most settings, I am by no means a Judeophile, on here, I try to take the more moderate approach.
Normally, I like Jewish culture and others might consider me a Judeophile - and certainly not pejoratively. I am pretty liberal and like it alot that most Jews are too. Plus, Jewish culture has a lot of carry over from the social culture of the prophets and ancient Israel, which is neat. The ancient Israelite religions is pretty cool for me. And as for modern Judaism, I believe in tolerating and having friendships with people of other religions.

However, the main problem regarding the rabbinical community is the longstanding and ongoing ethnic cleansing and domination over the Christian and Muslim communities in the Holy Land. Granted, America did something similar to the Native Americans, and I know that there is a small portion of their community who opposes the system there.

I know that is veering into Politics and thus I will avoid saying more than simply stating briefly that one can have a positive view of a religious community and yet for human rights moral reasons one can disagree with a campaign that much of the community is involved in.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2014, 12:05:18 PM by rakovsky »
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Offline Marc1152

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Re: Matthew Heimbach - the next Brother Nathanael?
« Reply #961 on: July 21, 2014, 09:06:17 AM »
lol, I am grateful I am Christian, so the discussion is more academic than anything.  I do, however, feel that the Jews get an awfully bad rap on this forum (not saying you, but a glance in the politics forum can be quite disturbing). So while in most settings, I am by no means a Judeophile, on here, I try to take the more moderate approach.
Normally, I like Jewish culture and others might consider me a Judeophile - and certainly not pejoratively. I am pretty liberal and like it alot that most Jews are too. Plus, Jewish culture has a lot of carry over from the social culture of the prophets and ancient Israel, which is neat. The ancient Israelite religions is pretty cool for me. And as for modern Judaism, I believe in tolerating and having friendships with people of other religions.

However, the main problem regarding the rabbinical community is the longstanding and ongoing ethnic cleansing and domination over the Christian and Muslim communities in the Holy Land. Granted, America did something similar to the Native Americans, and I know that there is a small portion of their community who opposes the system there.

I know that is veering into Politics and thus I will avoid saying more than simply stating briefly that one can have a positive view of a religious community and yet for human rights moral reasons one can disagree with a campaign that much of the community is involved in.

 Passive aggressive + miss information
Your idea has been debunked 1000 times already.. Maybe 1001 will be the charm

Offline Punch

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Re: Matthew Heimbach - the next Brother Nathanael?
« Reply #962 on: July 21, 2014, 09:12:37 AM »
I know that is veering into Politics and thus I will avoid saying more than simply stating briefly that one can have a positive view of a religious community and yet for human rights moral reasons one can disagree with a campaign that much of the community is involved in.

No, this is simply stating that you really stand for nothing.
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Matthew Heimbach - the next Brother Nathanael?
« Reply #963 on: July 21, 2014, 09:19:39 AM »
Passive aggressive + miss information

Is that an unknown pageant title or something?  Is Miss Information hot?

Offline Rambam

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Re: Matthew Heimbach - the next Brother Nathanael?
« Reply #964 on: July 21, 2014, 09:22:18 AM »
What do you mean? He did sneak in there that he thought Israel is committing genocide (just like America did). It's not quite a Col. Travis moment, but the statement is still provocative and counts as "taking sides."



I know that is veering into Politics and thus I will avoid saying more than simply stating briefly that one can have a positive view of a religious community and yet for human rights moral reasons one can disagree with a campaign that much of the community is involved in.

No, this is simply stating that you really stand for nothing.

Offline Punch

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Re: Matthew Heimbach - the next Brother Nathanael?
« Reply #965 on: July 21, 2014, 09:31:07 AM »
What do you mean? He did sneak in there that he thought Israel is committing genocide (just like America did). It's not quite a Col. Travis moment, but the statement is still provocative and counts as "taking sides."

It is like me saying that I like the Nazis, but I don't agree with genocide.  While that may or may not be true, openly stating such in the company of most normal people would, at a minimum, create a what? moment.  Hey, after all, they had the coolest uniforms, really neat tanks, and could make fantastic speaches.  Why would I let a little thing like killing millions and attempting to exterminate a race get in the way?

Changed veiled profanity
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« Last Edit: July 21, 2014, 12:14:13 PM by minasoliman »
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline Rambam

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Re: Matthew Heimbach - the next Brother Nathanael?
« Reply #966 on: July 21, 2014, 09:39:08 AM »
Yeah, OK. Still, I think it'd be more like if you were to say "I like Germans, but I don't agree with genocide."

It's OK to not blame Mr. Schmidt (or Mr. Goldman), the pharmacist down the street in Mapleville, U.S.A., for the genocide in Germany (Israel), right?  Maybe that's what rakovsky's getting at.



What do you mean? He did sneak in there that he thought Israel is committing genocide (just like America did). It's not quite a Col. Travis moment, but the statement is still provocative and counts as "taking sides."

It is like me saying that I like the Nazis, but I don't agree with genocide.  While that may or may not be true, openly stating such in the company of most normal people would, at a minimum, create a WTF moment.  Hey, after all, they had the coolest uniforms, really neat tanks, and could make fantastic speaches.  Why would I let a little thing like killing millions and attempting to exterminate a race get in the way?

Offline Punch

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Re: Matthew Heimbach - the next Brother Nathanael?
« Reply #967 on: July 21, 2014, 10:17:42 AM »
Yeah, OK. Still, I think it'd be more like if you were to say "I like Germans, but I don't agree with genocide."

It's OK to not blame Mr. Schmidt (or Mr. Goldman), the pharmacist down the street in Mapleville, U.S.A., for the genocide in Germany (Israel), right?  Maybe that's what rakovsky's getting at.

After a while, it becomes moot.  If I were a Jew, I would be very cautious around Germans.  The Nazi era was not the first or only time that Germans attempted to answer the Jewish question.  Likewise as a Christian, reading the Fathers and studying Church History does not lead me to trust Jews (speaking of the religion, not the race).  I certainly don't have much use for a large number of them in one place (Israel), nor do I find that particular nation's antics at all surprising based on my above readings.  A person cannot help what is in their genes, which is why I am not "anti-semetic" as some idiots would call anyone that does not have their nose half way up a Jewish rear.  I know a lot of Jews that are Christian, and I have a good deal of respect for them.  However, those that hold to the Jewish religion are another matter.
I would be happy to agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.

Offline john_mo

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Re: Matthew Heimbach - the next Brother Nathanael?
« Reply #968 on: July 21, 2014, 10:33:04 AM »
Yeah, OK. Still, I think it'd be more like if you were to say "I like Germans, but I don't agree with genocide."

It's OK to not blame Mr. Schmidt (or Mr. Goldman), the pharmacist down the street in Mapleville, U.S.A., for the genocide in Germany (Israel), right?  Maybe that's what rakovsky's getting at.

After a while, it becomes moot.  If I were a Jew, I would be very cautious around Germans.  The Nazi era was not the first or only time that Germans attempted to answer the Jewish question.  Likewise as a Christian, reading the Fathers and studying Church History does not lead me to trust Jews (speaking of the religion, not the race).  I certainly don't have much use for a large number of them in one place (Israel), nor do I find that particular nation's antics at all surprising based on my above readings.  A person cannot help what is in their genes, which is why I am not "anti-semetic" as some idiots would call anyone that does not have their nose half way up a Jewish rear.  I know a lot of Jews that are Christian, and I have a good deal of respect for them.  However, those that hold to the Jewish religion are another matter.

I appreciate how you made a distinction between Jews as a religion and Jews as an ethnicity.  I do the same, and it helps clear things up.  Its also why I don't understand the Israelis.  They are mostly non-religious.
Love is not blind; that is the last thing that it is. Love is bound; and the more it is bound the less it is blind.

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Offline Rambam

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Re: Matthew Heimbach - the next Brother Nathanael?
« Reply #969 on: July 21, 2014, 10:45:58 AM »
Now, that's how you take a stand. I see now.



Yeah, OK. Still, I think it'd be more like if you were to say "I like Germans, but I don't agree with genocide."

It's OK to not blame Mr. Schmidt (or Mr. Goldman), the pharmacist down the street in Mapleville, U.S.A., for the genocide in Germany (Israel), right?  Maybe that's what rakovsky's getting at.

After a while, it becomes moot.  If I were a Jew, I would be very cautious around Germans.  The Nazi era was not the first or only time that Germans attempted to answer the Jewish question.  Likewise as a Christian, reading the Fathers and studying Church History does not lead me to trust Jews (speaking of the religion, not the race).  I certainly don't have much use for a large number of them in one place (Israel), nor do I find that particular nation's antics at all surprising based on my above readings.  A person cannot help what is in their genes, which is why I am not "anti-semetic" as some idiots would call anyone that does not have their nose half way up a Jewish rear.  I know a lot of Jews that are Christian, and I have a good deal of respect for them.  However, those that hold to the Jewish religion are another matter.

Offline podkarpatska

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Re: Matthew Heimbach - the next Brother Nathanael?
« Reply #970 on: July 21, 2014, 10:58:28 AM »
Passive aggressive + miss information

Is that an unknown pageant title or something?  Is Miss Information hot?

This thread - it's like a 'Friday the 13th' movie...you just can't get enough.... ;)

Offline john_mo

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Re: Matthew Heimbach - the next Brother Nathanael?
« Reply #971 on: July 21, 2014, 11:50:23 AM »
Passive aggressive + miss information

Is that an unknown pageant title or something?  Is Miss Information hot?

This thread - it's like a 'Friday the 13th' movie...you just can't get enough.... ;)

When was it last about Matt Heimbach? I suppose he's not really worth all the talk and it's understandable that after 7 pages a thread would turn into discussion of auxiliary issues.
Love is not blind; that is the last thing that it is. Love is bound; and the more it is bound the less it is blind.

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Offline minasoliman

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Re: Matthew Heimbach - the next Brother Nathanael?
« Reply #972 on: July 21, 2014, 12:12:05 PM »
The topics might be starting to change a bit.  I appreciate that it's about racism of different entities, but make sure it doesn't veer into politics please.

And please, no veiled profanity either. Letter Abbreviations and Acronyms are also forbidden.

Thank you!

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Offline rakovsky

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Re: Matthew Heimbach - the next Brother Nathanael?
« Reply #973 on: July 21, 2014, 12:21:35 PM »
I appreciate how you made a distinction between Jews as a religion and Jews as an ethnicity.  I do the same, and it helps clear things up.  Its also why I don't understand the Israelis.  They are mostly non-religious.
Yes, it doesn't make sense. Their laws define nationality based on religion, and yet many of them are not particularly religious. However, this is a topic for another thread.

Heimbach is not particularly intellectually stimulating. He tried to force his racial ideas about Segregation into Eastern Orthodox thought.
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Offline john_mo

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Re: Matthew Heimbach - the next Brother Nathanael?
« Reply #974 on: July 21, 2014, 12:30:05 PM »
I appreciate how you made a distinction between Jews as a religion and Jews as an ethnicity.  I do the same, and it helps clear things up.  Its also why I don't understand the Israelis.  They are mostly non-religious.
Yes, it doesn't make sense. Their laws define nationality based on religion, and yet many of them are not particularly religious. However, this is a topic for another thread.

Heimbach is not particularly intellectually stimulating. He tried to force his racial ideas about Segregation into Eastern Orthodox thought.

Concerning Heimbach: If I'm not mistaken, he claimed to be EO long before he was accepted into the Church (ignorantly).  He said he was Orthodox in his blog from a year ago *, and claimed that he is justified in his beliefs because the EO also segregates the faithful based on race.  Yet he was only chrismated earlier this year.

No, I too don't find him to be a compelling or charismatic leader of men, and that's putting it very lightly.  He isn't one of those people who can take a seemingly indefensible position and present it in a way that forces one to rethink the whole issue. 

* He seems to have since removed what he wrote in this blog post, although the comments are still there.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2014, 12:32:37 PM by john_mo »
Love is not blind; that is the last thing that it is. Love is bound; and the more it is bound the less it is blind.

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Offline Orest

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Re: Matthew Heimbach - the next Brother Nathanael?
« Reply #975 on: July 21, 2014, 04:11:12 PM »
[Concerning Heimbach: If I'm not mistaken, he claimed to be EO long before he was accepted into the Church (ignorantly).  He said he was Orthodox in his blog from a year ago *, and claimed that he is justified in his beliefs because the EO also segregates the faithful based on race.  Yet he was only chrismated earlier this year.

No, I too don't find him to be a compelling or charismatic leader of men, and that's putting it very lightly.  He isn't one of those people who can take a seemingly indefensible position and present it in a way that forces one to rethink the whole issue. 

* He seems to have since removed what he wrote in this blog post, although the comments are still there.


So is he still a member of the Orthodox Church or not?

Offline TheTrisagion

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Re: Matthew Heimbach - the next Brother Nathanael?
« Reply #976 on: July 21, 2014, 04:19:32 PM »
Yes, he is a member but is excommunicated at the moment.
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Offline rakovsky

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Re: Matthew Heimbach - the next Brother Nathanael?
« Reply #977 on: July 21, 2014, 05:36:51 PM »
Yes, he is a member but is excommunicated at the moment.
Doesn't that spiritually mean that he is not a "member"? If so (or not), then how would you rephrase your answer?
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Offline methodius

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Re: Matthew Heimbach - the next Brother Nathanael?
« Reply #978 on: July 21, 2014, 06:38:14 PM »
this might depend on in what way he would be received back into the Church; surely? he wouldn't be rebaptized, of course, but would 'repentance, confession and absolution' suffice; or would a more severe action be necessary?
Is his excommunication subject to withdrawal; or is it permanent?
kyrie eleison

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Re: Matthew Heimbach - the next Brother Nathanael?
« Reply #979 on: July 21, 2014, 07:08:17 PM »
this might depend on in what way he would be received back into the Church; surely? he wouldn't be rebaptized, of course, but would 'repentance, confession and absolution' suffice; or would a more severe action be necessary?
Is his excommunication subject to withdrawal; or is it permanent?
They are probably going to wait for a serious period of time until they then give him confession and absolution, and in his case it's subject to withdrawal.
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Offline rakovsky

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Re: Matthew Heimbach - the next Brother Nathanael?
« Reply #980 on: September 27, 2014, 10:55:32 PM »
Looks like he's still at it:

Action Report: Bedford Outreach Campaign

Hold the Corridor: General Wenck and the 12th Army
http://www.tradyouth.org/2014/09/hold-the-corridor-general-wenck-and-the-12th-army/
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Re: Matthew Heimbach - the next Brother Nathanael?
« Reply #981 on: September 27, 2014, 11:00:26 PM »
So whatever happened to this dude? Did he run for the hills once he realized that the EO ecclesiastical structure in America is full of nosy shills who will bow down to pressure from OC.net and bloggers? Or did he recant?
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Offline Nephi

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Re: Matthew Heimbach - the next Brother Nathanael?
« Reply #982 on: September 27, 2014, 11:05:05 PM »
nosy shills who will bow down to pressure from OC.net

OC.net had nothing to do with his ultimate censure. If anything, it was the seeming hoards of angry people in Orthodox Facebook groups. This thread, this entire site even, is remarkably tame in contrast to what you can find on there, especially when Heimbach had his moment of fame.

Offline Jonathan Gress

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Re: Matthew Heimbach - the next Brother Nathanael?
« Reply #983 on: September 27, 2014, 11:14:40 PM »
Looks like he's still at it:

Action Report: Bedford Outreach Campaign

Hold the Corridor: General Wenck and the 12th Army
http://www.tradyouth.org/2014/09/hold-the-corridor-general-wenck-and-the-12th-army/

An interesting story and apart from the comments on "Jewish commissars" seems devoid of overtly white nationalist talking points.

Offline Rambam

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Re: Matthew Heimbach - the next Brother Nathanael?
« Reply #984 on: September 28, 2014, 12:02:28 AM »
Maybe someone can explain to me this situation ... why is a convicted sexual predator like Fr. Adam Metropolous is still a priest? At least as far as I can tell, there has been no Internet hew and cry about excommunicating or defrocking him or whatever, nor has there been a press release announcing his excommunication posted at the church site or the archdiocese site.

On the other hand, Heimbach committed no crime. Just guilty of having some inconvenient political views. That's all it took to publicly run him out of the Church.

So why does Heimbach get an instant and public retribution by the Church and Fr. Adam gets brushed under the rug?

Is it just that the Antiochians hate racism a lot more than the Greeks hate pederasts?

BTW: here's the most recent news on Fr. Adam -- according to a police affidavit, he likes to touch little boys while they're sleeping: http://www.necn.com/news/new-england/Affidavit-Priest-Touched-Teenage-Boys-275566551.html

I'd take 1,000 Heimbachs before I took one Fr. Adam. I guess that makes me crazy.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2014, 12:02:59 AM by Rambam »

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Re: Matthew Heimbach - the next Brother Nathanael?
« Reply #985 on: September 28, 2014, 12:03:33 AM »
Yes. If you want to be buddies with a white supremacist crackpot, that is what you would be.

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Offline Rambam

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Re: Matthew Heimbach - the next Brother Nathanael?
« Reply #986 on: September 28, 2014, 12:07:55 AM »
I didn't say that. Obviously.  What I said is Fr. Adam's pederasty is much worse than Heimbach's politics. But the Interwebs treated Heimbach much worse than they did Fr. Adam.

Truth be told, the Internet treated Heimbach the same way Fr. Adam treats his parishioners.

 



Yes. If you want to be buddies with a white supremacist crackpot, that is what you would be.



Offline minasoliman

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Re: Matthew Heimbach - the next Brother Nathanael?
« Reply #987 on: September 28, 2014, 12:08:21 AM »
Maybe someone can explain to me this situation ... why is a convicted sexual predator like Fr. Adam Metropolous is still a priest? At least as far as I can tell, there has been no Internet hew and cry about excommunicating or defrocking him or whatever, nor has there been a press release announcing his excommunication posted at the church site or the archdiocese site.

On the other hand, Heimbach committed no crime. Just guilty of having some inconvenient political views. That's all it took to publicly run him out of the Church.

So why does Heimbach get an instant and public retribution by the Church and Fr. Adam gets brushed under the rug?

Is it just that the Antiochians hate racism a lot more than the Greeks hate pederasts?

BTW: here's the most recent news on Fr. Adam -- according to a police affidavit, he likes to touch little boys while they're sleeping: http://www.necn.com/news/new-england/Affidavit-Priest-Touched-Teenage-Boys-275566551.html

I'd take 1,000 Heimbachs before I took one Fr. Adam. I guess that makes me crazy.


Stick to the subject Rambam.  This thread is not about pederasty.  It's about racism.  Neither is acceptable in the Church, and both would be kicked out.
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Offline William

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Re: Matthew Heimbach - the next Brother Nathanael?
« Reply #988 on: September 28, 2014, 12:10:46 AM »
Truth be told, the Internet treated Heimbach the same way Fr. Adam treats his parishioners.

I'll never be great enough to just come up with a line like this. What's the point of living?
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Offline Rambam

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Re: Matthew Heimbach - the next Brother Nathanael?
« Reply #989 on: September 28, 2014, 12:15:47 AM »
OK, sure. I'm still trying to wrap my head around what happened to Heimbach. I figured that drawing distinctions between the two cases -- Heimbach's racism and Fr. Adam's pederasty -- might help me do that.

For me, this thread wasn't ever about racism, it was about the Church's reaction to an individual's political views. I don't understand why one case draws so much opprobrium, while the other, in which actual laws were broken and actual people profoundly violated, is hush-hush. Seems like we should be at least equally outraged, no?

But I'll quit talking about Fr. Adam. Mums the word.



Maybe someone can explain to me this situation ... why is a convicted sexual predator like Fr. Adam Metropolous is still a priest? At least as far as I can tell, there has been no Internet hew and cry about excommunicating or defrocking him or whatever, nor has there been a press release announcing his excommunication posted at the church site or the archdiocese site.

On the other hand, Heimbach committed no crime. Just guilty of having some inconvenient political views. That's all it took to publicly run him out of the Church.

So why does Heimbach get an instant and public retribution by the Church and Fr. Adam gets brushed under the rug?

Is it just that the Antiochians hate racism a lot more than the Greeks hate pederasts?

BTW: here's the most recent news on Fr. Adam -- according to a police affidavit, he likes to touch little boys while they're sleeping: http://www.necn.com/news/new-england/Affidavit-Priest-Touched-Teenage-Boys-275566551.html

I'd take 1,000 Heimbachs before I took one Fr. Adam. I guess that makes me crazy.


Stick to the subject Rambam.  This thread is not about pederasty.  It's about racism.  Neither is acceptable in the Church, and both would be kicked out.