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Author Topic: Union now!  (Read 6535 times) Average Rating: 0
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Justionios
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« Reply #45 on: April 12, 2005, 06:19:17 PM »

Thank you Ecumenical, Its seems that no oneels understand that we are figting our selfs if we hit that monastary,
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Elisha
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« Reply #46 on: April 12, 2005, 06:34:43 PM »

Thank you Ecumenical, Its seems that no oneels understand that we are figting our selfs if we hit that monastary,

Justin,
If they don't want to be obedient, then why don't they just leave on join another monaster on the mainland that is not associated with the EP!  By not obeying, they are the ones being selfish!
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Ecumenical
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« Reply #47 on: April 12, 2005, 06:39:44 PM »

Elisha do not forget the Importance of M.Athos its a holy place and to tell them leave Athos for another monastery must mean death to them.

M.ATHOS is a holy place for Orthodoxy and is well protected but Holy Mary. THe importance is too big to o ignore it.

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Elisha
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« Reply #48 on: April 12, 2005, 07:02:39 PM »

Elisha do not forget the Importance of M.Athos its a holy place and to tell them leave Athos for another monastery must mean death to them.

M.ATHOS is a holy place for Orthodoxy and is well protected but Holy Mary. THe importance is too big to o ignore it.



I'm not saying it's an easy decision, but they need to decide:  obey and stay, or disobey and leave.  It's that simple.
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prodromos
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« Reply #49 on: April 13, 2005, 04:52:58 AM »

Elisha do not forget the Importance of M.Athos its a holy place and to tell them leave Athos for another monastery must mean death to them.

Utter rubbish! Their trust and faith is in God, not in a particular geographic location. There are monasteries all over Greece that are not on Mount Athos. Are the monks and nuns in those monasteries somehow unable to find salvation because they are not on the Holy Mountain? Is Panagia unable to provide her support and protection to them if they are not in  Esphigmenou?

Now I am hugely sympathetic towards the monks of Esphigmenou for the stand they have taken but only up to the point where they refuse to accept the consequences of their actions. I cannot understand why the EP has reneged on his promise to discuss the calendar issue and I do not support his actions towards Esphigmenou, however I recognise that he is fully supported by the canons in evicting them (if only by the letter, not the spirit).

How many saints of the Church, when given the choice of apostacy or death, gave the response that they would never give up their faith but refused to let themselves be killed either? None! they all willingly accepted the consequences of the stand they took. There are also many saints who willingly accepted exile rather than compromise their faith. Surely these monks should be trying to emulate the saints who have gone before them.
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jmbejdl
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« Reply #50 on: April 13, 2005, 05:26:17 AM »

Prodromos,

I totally agree. I oppose what the Patrirach has done on Mount Athos and even went to the effort of writing a letter to that effect to him, and received a reply (though not from the Patriarch himself). However, the monks of Esphigmenou, having been undoubtedly badly treated, should now accept the consequences of their principled stand. They should stoically accept the 'punishment' of the Ecumenical Patriarch and so display the strength of their faith for all to see. That is the only way in which they might draw support to their cause from others within the Church.

James
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We owe greater gratitude to those who humble us, wrong us, and douse us with venom, than to those who nurse us with honour and sweet words, or feed us with tasty food and confections, for bile is the best medicine for our soul. - Elder Paisios of Mount Athos
Justionios
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« Reply #51 on: April 13, 2005, 10:11:29 AM »

James the only support the need is from Gud, if the wanted your support they would alredy obeyed the PAtriarch, take the money from EU and then telliing stories on the internet about how difficult and bad the world is.

 And Prodromos have you ever reed about the zwgrafite munks who are all saints , patriarch veggw burned them in their monastary at mount athos ?

I'm not a master of canons but I think you should reed the apostolc canons and you will see that they can do "apotixiseis" without becoming scismatic if they are jused continue to follow the rules.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2005, 10:12:25 AM by Justionios » Logged

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« Reply #52 on: April 13, 2005, 10:27:44 AM »

James the only support the need is from Gud, if the wanted your support they would alredy obeyed the PAtriarch, take the money from EU and then telliing stories on the internet about how difficult and bad the world is.

 And Prodromos have you ever reed about the zwgrafite munks who are all saints , patriarch veggw burned them in their monastary at mount athos ?

I'm not a master of canons but I think you should reed the apostolc canons and you will see that they can do "apotixiseis" without becoming scismatic if they are jused continue to follow the rules.
 

I'm sorry, but I can't make head or tale of this. What are you trying to say to me? I supported the monks' stance against the EP and continue to do so. Others have done the same. I deplore the fact that the Patriarch has used the Greek authorities to evict them, but I now believe that they should accept their lot, thus providing a witness for the Truth - that is martyrdom.

Look at it this way, my patron saint, St. James the Persian, refused to accept the Persian king's threats or promises as sufficient reasoon to deny Christ. For this reason he was slowly dismembered alive, joint by joint, never murmuring but accepting his suffering. He didn't curse the Persian king for what he was doing to him, but rather praised Christ. In doing so he became a great martyr, a witness to the true faith and he continues even now to inspire people like me to try to do the same. Isn't that a far greater testament to his faith than if he had called down curses from the Lord on the king's head?

If St. James the Persian could suffer such a hideous death without complaint, then I don't think it's too much to ask that the Esphigmenou monks suffer their, much less onerous, eviction in a similar manner. Saying this does not mean that I agree with the actions of the EP any more than I agree with the king of Persia's torture of St. James.

Do you understand what I was saying now?

James
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We owe greater gratitude to those who humble us, wrong us, and douse us with venom, than to those who nurse us with honour and sweet words, or feed us with tasty food and confections, for bile is the best medicine for our soul. - Elder Paisios of Mount Athos
Justionios
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« Reply #53 on: April 13, 2005, 11:48:42 AM »

OK I undestand you Jmbejdi, you are right
 
I hope that the the esphigmene munks are doing as you said,  I think that they see the hunting as a proof of their love to god. ANd if you ask them they will say that the Police were their freinds that it almost never ocured. But I belive that I as private person has duty to help every one where justice is being skiped.  Not only the esphigmens but also the muslims.

Did you now that In Turkey true muslims har beeing perscuted. When Ataturk came to power he killed 80 000 of their imams , and changed all their leaders ?!




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« Reply #54 on: April 20, 2005, 12:13:02 AM »

Justionios,

It sounds to me like you need some peace in your heart. God is in control of everything, and it isn't the end of the world if Orthodox bishops or patriarchs go and pay their respects to John Paul II. We even prayed for him over the past couple of weeks during the liturgy (recognizing, of course, that the Patriarch of Rome is not in communion with us). We are to pray for everyone, love everyone, forgive everyone including the Patriarch of Rome. Lord willing, they will come back home to the true church (what a wonderful day that would be!)

For your own peace of soul, I would recommend reading the book "The mountian of silence, a quest for Orthodox spirituality" by Kyriacos Markiedes. As you grow in Theosis, I believe that you will have less anxiety.

God grant you many years my brother
« Last Edit: April 20, 2005, 12:13:34 AM by Orthodox Bagpiper » Logged

Troparion - Tone 1:
O Sebastian, spurning the assemblies of the wicked,You gathered the wise martyrs Who with you cast down the enemy; And standing worthily before the throne of God, You gladden those who cry to you:Glory to him who has strengthened you! Glory to him who has granted you a crown!
Justionios
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« Reply #55 on: April 20, 2005, 04:00:37 AM »

Orthodox Bagpiper, Thank you for spending time for my, It is one thing to pray with an heretic and an other to pray for his best.
The first is murder for the the soul the second is salvation. It is not my rules, but our holly fathers , Apostel Paulos said that we wont say even Hi to the false teachers, and you can't tell me that apostel Paul was not full of love. My only anxiety is that I'm a big sinner and that I can not help the people around me.


Orthodox Bagpiper, Thanks for your recomendation , I will recomed you too to read about Patriarch Veggo who lived in the 1200, I Would also recomed you to read about Markus the frendly (o evgenikos)greek, and about Kosma o entolos.

Glory to Gud and may God bless you
« Last Edit: April 20, 2005, 04:01:19 AM by Justionios » Logged

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