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Author Topic: Whats going on? Are Orthodox priest in the funeral of Pope...  (Read 2854 times) Average Rating: 0
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Nikodimos
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« on: April 08, 2005, 06:27:16 AM »

Im watching the ceremony from the vatican and a lot of Orthodoxs are there as representatives.
Im stunned i just heard Christos Anesti? And i hole stuff that was Greek.

I knew that the Orthodox Easter is later on the month? Whats going on is this ok?
I do not like this stuff. Please someone explain im not so informed about these issues.

Thanks.
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« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2005, 06:36:13 AM »

I haven't watched, nor had I heard (before now) about the singing...
All I know is that the EP will be present at the funeral, but I don't know what he'll say or do there.  He obviously won't officiate the funeral.  I think it will be interesting, though, how the Catholics treat him - the last time he went to Rome, they seated him in an exactly equal position to the Pope - same chair, same height, etc. - which would completely contradict Catholic dogma about the Pope being one without equal in the Church (they essentially said the Patriarch was equal to him).  So we'll see how they treat BARTHOLOMEW when he goes.
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« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2005, 07:52:12 AM »

That motley crew dressed in an assortment of Orthodox regalia and who sang the ending of the Mnimosino/Pannikhida/Parastos in Greek were the Cardinals and Patriarchs of the Eastern Catholic Churches. Besides the Church of Rome, there are an additional 21 sui juris Churches, what used to be called the Uniates (a term which seems to have become non PC in the USA but is still used elsewhere.)

The Orthodox there did not participate.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2005, 08:02:28 AM by Irish Hermit » Logged
Nikodimos
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« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2005, 08:55:44 AM »

Ohh thanks Irish Hermit nice to know that i was kind o f worry.

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« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2005, 09:06:37 AM »

Nikodimos,

     I saw what you saw and was quite puzzled (although I had assumed they were the Eastern Rite Catholics). 

     Without the ability to match names to faces, it was impossible to tell, because they looked exactly like our Patriarchs.
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« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2005, 09:26:46 AM »

All I know is that the EP will be present at the funeral, but I don't know what he'll say or do there. He obviously won't officiate the funeral. I think it will be interesting, though, how the Catholics treat him - the last time he went to Rome, they seated him in an exactly equal position to the Pope - same chair, same height, etc.

Are you saying that the EP should have been there alongside the Pope in his own nice cedarwood coffin today?  Smiley
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« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2005, 09:51:53 AM »

A single question did Vatican have anything to do  with the War in Jugoslavia and Serbia?

Thanks-
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« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2005, 10:20:27 AM »

That motley crew dressed in an assortment of Orthodox regalia and who sang the ending of the Mnimosino/Pannikhida/Parastos in Greek were the Cardinals and Patriarchs of the Eastern Catholic Churches.  Besides the Church of Rome, there are an additional 21 sui juris Churches, what used to be called the Uniates (a term which seems to have become non PC in the USA but is still used elsewhere.)

The Orthodox there did not participate.

That explains it. I did see some priests styled in Orthodox liturgical vestments, but they certainly weren't along with the Orthodox Patriarchs.
What are these 21 sui juris Churches? I knew of the Uniat, that they recognise the Pope as their superior, but I wasn't aware they had archpriests and such. Are the Uniat Patriarchates like the Orthodox Churches?
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« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2005, 10:56:51 AM »

I knew of the Uniat, that they recognise the Pope as their superior, but I wasn't aware they had archpriests and such. Are the Uniat Patriarchates like the Orthodox Churches?

Maybe in external's only.  They can call their bishoprics/Patriarchates/etc. whatever they want, but they're still not Orthodox and the heads of those bishoprics/Patriarchates/etc. are still subject to the Pope, so how can they really be a Patriarch or whatever?
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« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2005, 10:59:07 AM »

[What are these 21 sui juris Churches? I knew of the Uniat, that they recognise the Pope as their superior, but I wasn't aware they had archpriests and such. Are the Uniat Patriarchates like the Orthodox Churches?]

Don't let the dress up fool you. They are full members of the papal Catholic Church even though they like to dress up and play Orthodox. You know the old saying -

If it walks with ducks, talks with ducks, sleeps with ducks, and calls a duck its father....Then its gotta be a duck. Even though it likes to dress up like a peacock! In fact, there are some of us, uncluding myself which see them as nothing more than Roman Catholics in drag!

Bob
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« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2005, 11:28:18 AM »

Are u sure that they where Uniats ? They Uniate have some white on them.

Anyway even if their was not any orthodox on the funerall the have all preid together several times, so what+ñs the point?
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« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2005, 11:52:35 AM »

Yahoo news referred to some eastern looking priests/bishops as "oriental."   I'm assuming these were Eastern Catholic priests. 

If not, what "orientals" are they referring to?  I'm assuming the Oriental Orthodox wouldn't have participated in the Mass. 

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« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2005, 11:58:15 AM »

Yahoo news referred to some eastern looking priests/bishops as "oriental." I'm assuming these were Eastern Catholic priests.

If not, what "orientals" are they referring to? I'm assuming the Oriental Orthodox wouldn't have participated in the Mass.



I would assume that in clerical dress, Yahoo would lump all EC/EO/OO together.  The AP/Reuters doesn't know anything.
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« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2005, 12:00:00 PM »

There was a panikhida which I'm assuming is what is being talked about. The uniate bishop was Coptic Catholic Partiarch Stephanos II. The service was done in Greek, which coupled with the newscasters referring to them as Orthodox creates a higly confusing picture of what is going on.
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« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2005, 12:14:36 PM »

I just watched this Panikhida which was officiated by the 'Eatern Rite Patriarch of Alexandra'.  What they needed as a better translator.  They were singing 'Christ Is Risen from the dead' the translator was interupting it as 'Give rest oh Christ to the servant of God Pope of Rome'!  At the end of the Panikhida when they began singing the Pascha troparion he was translating it as 'Memory Eternal'!

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« Reply #15 on: April 08, 2005, 12:32:41 PM »

As usally the typical criticism, arrogance etc. professed during Pascha for some and mourning for others.

How uncharitable are you , you who think they are without fault and are perfect.

I visit here less and less due to a uncompassionate lot.

james

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« Reply #16 on: April 08, 2005, 12:34:07 PM »

I just watched this Panikhida which was officiated by the 'Eatern Rite Patriarch of Alexandra'. What they needed as a better translator. They were singing 'Christ Is Risen from the dead' the translator was interupting it as 'Give rest oh Christ to the servant of God Pope of Rome'! At the end of the Panikhida when they began singing the Pascha troparion he was translating it as 'Memory Eternal'!

Orthodoc

Sad.  Stupid media.
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« Reply #17 on: April 08, 2005, 01:21:16 PM »

Not only was there bad translation but who ever was reading the prayers in greek did not pronounce them well at all.
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« Reply #18 on: April 08, 2005, 01:25:37 PM »

As usally the typical criticism, arrogance etc. professed during Pascha for some and mourning for others.

How uncharitable are you , you who think they are without fault and are perfect.

I visit here less and less due to a uncompassionate lot.

james



Uh, it's Lent now, not Pascha.  I think that's part of why people think it's odd to be saying Christos Anesti.

I'll agree with you it is somewhat unseemly to be talking about things like this on the day of the funeral for John Paul II.  I personally mourn the man, as I would with anybody who has reposed, and pray for all who mourn him.

That aside, I think you can understand that Uniatism is a hot button issue for Orthodox people.  That it would be hard for us to watch uniate clergy celebrating a service in Greek in front of our hierarchs and to have news commentators calling them Orthodox.  This presents a situation where it is really hard to bite ones lip.  Though probably we should.
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« Reply #19 on: April 08, 2005, 01:30:52 PM »

Jakub accuses people of thinking they are perfect, but is it not the popes that have declared they are infallible? Only Christ is perfect.
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« Reply #20 on: April 08, 2005, 01:52:47 PM »

Pope AlexanderVI was immoral and dispicable. We Catholics don't believe the pope to be perfect. We believe the faith he proclaims is.
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« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2005, 05:47:12 PM »

Not only was there bad translation but who ever was reading the prayers in greek did not pronounce them well at all.

That was the Melkite Patriarch of Antioch, so have a bit of respect - Arabic, not Greek is his liturgical language. At least he tried.

Perhaps *YOU* might like to try leading a prayer in Arabic sometime, or even in English, which seems enough of a difficulty for you.
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« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2005, 05:55:03 PM »

Jakub accuses people of thinking they are perfect, but is it not the popes that have declared they are infallible? Only Christ is perfect.

Non-sequitor. Infallibility has nothing to do with perfection.
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« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2005, 05:55:38 PM »

I have decided that this thread is unbecoming of Orthodox Christians. Hence it is being closed.
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