Author Topic: Which Great Friday Services?  (Read 589 times)

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Offline Nephi

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Which Great Friday Services?
« on: April 17, 2014, 12:11:54 AM »
I probably won't be able to make it to all three services on Great Friday. I'll for sure be going to Vespers in the evening, but in the morning it's a toss-up on whether I go to Matins or the 6th & 9th Royal Hours since I probably can't go to both. Which one of those two are more "important" in that I should choose to go to one over the other?

Offline SolEX01

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Re: Which Great Friday Services?
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2014, 01:16:08 AM »
I probably won't be able to make it to all three services on Great Friday. I'll for sure be going to Vespers in the evening, but in the morning it's a toss-up on whether I go to Matins or the 6th & 9th Royal Hours since I probably can't go to both. Which one of those two are more "important" in that I should choose to go to one over the other?

The evening service on Good Friday is the Lamentations of Christ or the Matins of Holy Saturday.

The other service is the Unnailing of Christ from the Cross - usually at 3 PM.

Some churches perform the royal hours immediately after the Thursday night Passion (e.g. Matins of Holy Friday) - others perform them on Friday morning.

If you're looking for "more" important - attend the Good Friday evening service.

Offline Nephi

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Re: Which Great Friday Services?
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2014, 01:27:58 AM »
The evening service on Good Friday is the Lamentations of Christ or the Matins of Holy Saturday.

The other service is the Unnailing of Christ from the Cross - usually at 3 PM.

This OCA parish doesn't do Lamentations, but has the Unnailing/winding-cloth Vespers at 6. I'll for sure be attending that one either way, for my first time.

Quote
Some churches perform the royal hours immediately after the Thursday night Passion (e.g. Matins of Holy Friday) - others perform them on Friday morning.

This parish has both Matins (7:30 am) and 6th/9th Royal Hours (11:00 am) on Friday morning. Which of these two would be more important?

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: Which Great Friday Services?
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2014, 03:29:23 AM »
The evening service on Good Friday is the Lamentations of Christ or the Matins of Holy Saturday.

The other service is the Unnailing of Christ from the Cross - usually at 3 PM.

This OCA parish doesn't do Lamentations, but has the Unnailing/winding-cloth Vespers at 6. I'll for sure be attending that one either way, for my first time.

Quote
Some churches perform the royal hours immediately after the Thursday night Passion (e.g. Matins of Holy Friday) - others perform them on Friday morning.

This parish has both Matins (7:30 am) and 6th/9th Royal Hours (11:00 am) on Friday morning. Which of these two would be more important?
If by Matins you mean what many other parishes read on Thursday night as the Passion Vigil, the service with the 12 Passion Gospel readings, then I would consider this the more important. The Royal Hours basically recap the same readings, except that each Hour focuses on the Passion narrative according to only one of the four Gospels (all four Gospels covered over the course of all the Royal Hours: 1st, 3rd, 6th, and 9th). The Matins of Holy Friday (Vigil if read on Thursday night) covers the whole Passion narrative from the time Judas Iscariot left the Last Supper to commit his act of treason all the way to Christ's death and burial, and from all four Gospels. If you cannot attend both Matins and the Royal Hours, then Matins is the one I would advise you to attend.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2014, 03:46:21 AM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline Nephi

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Re: Which Great Friday Services?
« Reply #4 on: April 17, 2014, 09:37:12 AM »
If by Matins you mean what many other parishes read on Thursday night as the Passion Vigil, the service with the 12 Passion Gospel readings, then I would consider this the more important. The Royal Hours basically recap the same readings, except that each Hour focuses on the Passion narrative according to only one of the four Gospels (all four Gospels covered over the course of all the Royal Hours: 1st, 3rd, 6th, and 9th). The Matins of Holy Friday (Vigil if read on Thursday night) covers the whole Passion narrative from the time Judas Iscariot left the Last Supper to commit his act of treason all the way to Christ's death and burial, and from all four Gospels. If you cannot attend both Matins and the Royal Hours, then Matins is the one I would advise you to attend.

Thank you. And yeah, I'm thinking that this parish is transferring Matins from the night before to the morning of. Would this also be the service where the crucifix is put up?

Offline scamandrius

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Re: Which Great Friday Services?
« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2014, 10:07:09 AM »
If by Matins you mean what many other parishes read on Thursday night as the Passion Vigil, the service with the 12 Passion Gospel readings, then I would consider this the more important. The Royal Hours basically recap the same readings, except that each Hour focuses on the Passion narrative according to only one of the four Gospels (all four Gospels covered over the course of all the Royal Hours: 1st, 3rd, 6th, and 9th). The Matins of Holy Friday (Vigil if read on Thursday night) covers the whole Passion narrative from the time Judas Iscariot left the Last Supper to commit his act of treason all the way to Christ's death and burial, and from all four Gospels. If you cannot attend both Matins and the Royal Hours, then Matins is the one I would advise you to attend.

Thank you. And yeah, I'm thinking that this parish is transferring Matins from the night before to the morning of. Would this also be the service where the crucifix is put up?

That's odd. Most of the time during Holy Week, the Orthros of the Day is served the night before.  To answer your questions, yes, the crucifix is set up during the 15th antiphon at Orthros "Today He is Suspended."  It's   a particularly powerful moment during this very long (and very worth it) service.
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Offline Elisha

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Re: Which Great Friday Services?
« Reply #6 on: April 17, 2014, 10:11:51 AM »
...

Thank you. And yeah, I'm thinking that this parish is transferring Matins from the night before to the morning of. Would this also be the service where the crucifix is put up?

That's odd. Most of the time during Holy Week, the Orthros of the Day is served the night before.  To answer your questions, yes, the crucifix is set up during the 15th antiphon at Orthros "Today He is Suspended Hung...."  It's   a particularly powerful moment during this very long (and very worth it) service.
I corrected it for you.   ;)  We get suspended from school.  Hung conveys the message.

Anyways, yes, are they doing the 3 HOUR Holy Thursday Matins + 12 Passion Gospels at 7:30 AM Friday?  If so, that would be odd.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Which Great Friday Services?
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2014, 02:58:06 PM »
Anyways, yes, are they doing the 3 HOUR Holy Thursday Matins + 12 Passion Gospels at 7:30 AM Friday?  If so, that would be odd.

Not really any more odd than doing it at 7pm on Thursday.  :P
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Offline scamandrius

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Re: Which Great Friday Services?
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2014, 03:28:20 PM »
...

Thank you. And yeah, I'm thinking that this parish is transferring Matins from the night before to the morning of. Would this also be the service where the crucifix is put up?

That's odd. Most of the time during Holy Week, the Orthros of the Day is served the night before.  To answer your questions, yes, the crucifix is set up during the 15th antiphon at Orthros "Today He is Suspended Hung...."  It's   a particularly powerful moment during this very long (and very worth it) service.
I corrected it for you.   ;)  We get suspended from school.  Hung conveys the message.

Anyways, yes, are they doing the 3 HOUR Holy Thursday Matins + 12 Passion Gospels at 7:30 AM Friday?  If so, that would be odd.

Take it up with the liturgical translations out there.  I know what the Greek says (how impetuous of you to think I don't) and suspended is perfectly acceptable as we can suspend a fan from a ceiling.  However, at least in the AANA, suspended is used in the books and that's how most of our people know that particular hymn. 
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Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Which Great Friday Services?
« Reply #9 on: April 20, 2014, 03:41:59 PM »
I know what the Greek says (how impetuous of you to think I don't)...

I must've missed the part where someone claimed you didn't know Greek.  AFAIK, no one said anything about Greek at all until you did. 

Quote
AANA

That's how you would transliterate the word "elephant" from my language using English. 
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Offline LBK

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Re: Which Great Friday Services?
« Reply #10 on: April 20, 2014, 05:57:10 PM »

That's odd. Most of the time during Holy Week, the Orthros of the Day is served the night before.  To answer your questions, yes, the crucifix is set up during the 15th antiphon at Orthros "Today He is Suspended."  It's   a particularly powerful moment during this very long (and very worth it) service.

The Greek tradition has Antiphon 15 as a focal point, and a powerful one it is. Russian tradition does not, but emphasizes the Exaposteilarion of Matins (The wise thief ...)
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Re: Which Great Friday Services?
« Reply #11 on: April 21, 2014, 11:04:21 AM »

That's odd. Most of the time during Holy Week, the Orthros of the Day is served the night before.  To answer your questions, yes, the crucifix is set up during the 15th antiphon at Orthros "Today He is Suspended."  It's   a particularly powerful moment during this very long (and very worth it) service.

The Greek tradition has Antiphon 15 as a focal point, and a powerful one it is. Russian tradition does not, but emphasizes the Exaposteilarion of Matins (The wise thief ...)

I noticed that.  Any reason why?
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Offline frjohnmorris

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Re: Which Great Friday Services?
« Reply #12 on: April 25, 2014, 01:27:49 AM »

That's odd. Most of the time during Holy Week, the Orthros of the Day is served the night before.  To answer your questions, yes, the crucifix is set up during the 15th antiphon at Orthros "Today He is Suspended."  It's   a particularly powerful moment during this very long (and very worth it) service.

The Greek tradition has Antiphon 15 as a focal point, and a powerful one it is. Russian tradition does not, but emphasizes the Exaposteilarion of Matins (The wise thief ...)

The procession with the Cross during the 15 Antiphon began during the 19th century in Constntinople and spread to Churches under Greek influence like the Patriarchate of Antioch. That is why the Russians do not have this practice.

Fr. John W. Morris

Offline genesisone

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Re: Which Great Friday Services?
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2014, 10:12:25 AM »

The procession with the Cross during the 15 Antiphon began during the 19th century in Constntinople and spread to Churches under Greek influence like the Patriarchate of Antioch. That is why the Russians do not have this practice.

Fr. John W. Morris
That's a surprisingly rapid spread! And one that I appreciate. I can't imagine Orthros of Holy Thursday without that procession. It truly is a practice that emphasizes the (apparent) finality of the Crucifixion.

Offline Elisha

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Re: Which Great Friday Services?
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2014, 11:41:49 AM »
ISTM that it IS emphasized in "Russian" parishes...at least in the US.  During the service itself my parish sings Byz Tone 6, but at the end while people are venerating we sing Trubachov's version (very beautiful and moving as well).  Maybe it is more in the US, but they both seem like focal points to me.

Offline scamandrius

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Re: Which Great Friday Services?
« Reply #15 on: April 25, 2014, 01:01:46 PM »

That's odd. Most of the time during Holy Week, the Orthros of the Day is served the night before.  To answer your questions, yes, the crucifix is set up during the 15th antiphon at Orthros "Today He is Suspended."  It's   a particularly powerful moment during this very long (and very worth it) service.

The Greek tradition has Antiphon 15 as a focal point, and a powerful one it is. Russian tradition does not, but emphasizes the Exaposteilarion of Matins (The wise thief ...)


The procession with the Cross during the 15 Antiphon began during the 19th century in Constntinople and spread to Churches under Greek influence like the Patriarchate of Antioch. That is why the Russians do not have this practice.

Fr. John W. Morris

Was this just some organic liturgical development or was there a theological reason for adding it?  Not that I am complaining as I really think it highlights the whole day.  Is there something available to read up on this development?
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