Author Topic: Dormition as a name day  (Read 3111 times)

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Offline William

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Dormition as a name day
« on: April 13, 2014, 03:51:06 PM »
Are there any names common among Orthodox people which have the Feast of the Dormition of Mary as a name day?
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Offline Tallitot

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Re: Dormition as a name day
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2014, 04:10:42 PM »
"Mary".
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Offline LBK

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Re: Dormition as a name day
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2014, 06:16:35 PM »
"Mary".

Mary/Maria, Despina, Panaghiota/Panaghiotis.
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Offline Daedelus1138

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Re: Dormition as a name day
« Reply #3 on: August 16, 2016, 10:46:16 PM »

I was told by my Orthodox priest it was impious to take Mary as ones patron saint?
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Re: Dormition as a name day
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2016, 10:47:22 PM »

I was told by my Orthodox priest it was impious to take Mary as ones patron saint?

lol
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Offline Bob2

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Re: Dormition as a name day
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2016, 11:02:29 PM »

I was told by my Orthodox priest it was impious to take Mary as ones patron saint?

lol

I've been told that in the Russian tradition people do not take the Theotokos as a patron, but are named only after other Marys, but that it is common in other Orthodox traditions. So if this small "t" tradition is all someone has been exposed to I didn't think so crazy for someone to get this idea, albeit misinformed. If you want to laugh at somebody for their silly ideas take me: there is also the small (t) tradition that Godparents can't be married to each other (now or in the future) so when I was visiting a parish of another jurisdiction for a baptism and the Godparents were a married couple, I was internally horrified at the spiritually incestuous nature :o

Offline Daedelus1138

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Re: Dormition as a name day
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2016, 11:11:05 PM »
Godparents were used in the Greco-Roman world to form inter-familial ties, so maybe that accounts for the origin of the tradition.

« Last Edit: August 16, 2016, 11:13:21 PM by Daedelus1138 »
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Re: Dormition as a name day
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2016, 11:39:49 PM »

I was told by my Orthodox priest it was impious to take Mary as ones patron saint?

lol

I've been told that in the Russian tradition people do not take the Theotokos as a patron, but are named only after other Marys, but that it is common in other Orthodox traditions. So if this small "t" tradition is all someone has been exposed to I didn't think so crazy for someone to get this idea, albeit misinformed.

If Russians don't take the Theotokos as a patron, that's one thing, but to accuse those who do of impiety is rather ridiculous.  Just my opinion. 

Quote
If you want to laugh at somebody for their silly ideas take me: there is also the small (t) tradition that Godparents can't be married to each other (now or in the future) so when I was visiting a parish of another jurisdiction for a baptism and the Godparents were a married couple, I was internally horrified at the spiritually incestuous nature :o

That's a bit more than small t. 
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Offline Daedelus1138

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Re: Dormition as a name day
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2016, 11:51:24 PM »
While he did not explicitly say it was "impious", that was my impression based on the tone.   

I had a friend who had joined a Serbian Orthodox parish in Kansas and he told me that they don't even have personal patron saints, and when he converted it was not an issue that came up (I honestly didn't want a particular patron saint at all, but when I contemplated being called "Mary" at communion it was a bit too much).

I wonder if my parish was a bit hyperdox.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2016, 11:54:19 PM by Daedelus1138 »
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Offline scamandrius

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Re: Dormition as a name day
« Reply #9 on: August 16, 2016, 11:55:40 PM »
While he did not explicitly say it was "impious", that was my impression based on the tone.   

So he didn't use that word, but you're assuming he would have based on his "tone?"  What word(s) exactly did he use?
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Offline Daedelus1138

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Re: Dormition as a name day
« Reply #10 on: August 16, 2016, 11:58:12 PM »
So he didn't use that word, but you're assuming he would have based on his "tone?"  What word(s) exactly did he use?

I'm trying to remember... I think he said "the only patron saint you should not take is Mary.  That is not done"  He also told us that we would be called that name at Communion. 

I actually was thinking of maybe taking St. Mary of Paris as a patron saint but I always found the idea of being called Mary at communion awkward to imagine.
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Re: Dormition as a name day
« Reply #11 on: August 17, 2016, 12:54:09 AM »
While he did not explicitly say it was "impious", that was my impression based on the tone.   

I had a friend who had joined a Serbian Orthodox parish in Kansas and he told me that they don't even have personal patron saints, and when he converted it was not an issue that came up (I honestly didn't want a particular patron saint at all, but when I contemplated being called "Mary" at communion it was a bit too much).

I wonder if my parish was a bit hyperdox.

The Serbs have a different tradition, one of an entire male line or family having a patron of the day their village converted from paganism centuries ago.

Google Slava for more.


But it's not a less pious tradition nor does it make those who take a saint's name at adult baptism 'Hyperdox'. They seem to manage that regardless of naming convention
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Re: Dormition as a name day
« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2016, 01:37:13 AM »

I was told by my Orthodox priest it was impious to take Mary as ones patron saint?

lol

I've been told that in the Russian tradition people do not take the Theotokos as a patron, but are named only after other Marys, but that it is common in other Orthodox traditions. So if this small "t" tradition is all someone has been exposed to I didn't think so crazy for someone to get this idea, albeit misinformed.

If Russians don't take the Theotokos as a patron, that's one thing, but to accuse those who do of impiety is rather ridiculous.  Just my opinion. 

Quote
If you want to laugh at somebody for their silly ideas take me: there is also the small (t) tradition that Godparents can't be married to each other (now or in the future) so when I was visiting a parish of another jurisdiction for a baptism and the Godparents were a married couple, I was internally horrified at the spiritually incestuous nature :o

That's a bit more than small t.
Greeks even take the Lord as their patron, so taking the Panagia is definitely not verboten.
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Re: Dormition as a name day
« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2016, 02:05:19 AM »
Are there any names common among Orthodox people which have the Feast of the Dormition of Mary as a name day?

Maria, Mariana, Marian, Mariela, Mara, Mario, Mika, Masha, Panaiot, Mira, Preslav, Preslava, Marina, Marin and Mariika.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2016, 02:29:00 AM by Indocern »

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Re: Dormition as a name day
« Reply #14 on: August 17, 2016, 02:51:35 AM »
Despot and Despota also.

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Re: Dormition as a name day
« Reply #15 on: August 17, 2016, 03:07:19 AM »

I was told by my Orthodox priest it was impious to take Mary as ones patron saint?

What is patron saint?

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Re: Dormition as a name day
« Reply #16 on: August 17, 2016, 03:10:48 AM »

I was told by my Orthodox priest it was impious to take Mary as ones patron saint?
lol what
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Re: Dormition as a name day
« Reply #17 on: August 17, 2016, 03:12:20 AM »

I was told by my Orthodox priest it was impious to take Mary as ones patron saint?

What is patron saint?
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Re: Dormition as a name day
« Reply #18 on: August 17, 2016, 03:41:52 AM »

I was told by my Orthodox priest it was impious to take Mary as ones patron saint?

What is patron saint?
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Yes I understood what is patron saint, it is like as for country to be st. Ivan Rilski. He is protecting our people. We have many other saints, but he is protector of our people.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2016, 04:02:39 AM by Indocern »

Offline Bob2

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Re: Dormition as a name day
« Reply #19 on: August 17, 2016, 08:30:23 AM »

I was told by my Orthodox priest it was impious to take Mary as ones patron saint?

lol

I've been told that in the Russian tradition people do not take the Theotokos as a patron, but are named only after other Marys, but that it is common in other Orthodox traditions. So if this small "t" tradition is all someone has been exposed to I didn't think so crazy for someone to get this idea, albeit misinformed.

If Russians don't take the Theotokos as a patron, that's one thing, * but to accuse those who do of impiety is rather ridiculous.  Just my opinion. 

Quote
If you want to laugh at somebody for their silly ideas take me: there is also the small (t) tradition that Godparents can't be married to each other (now or in the future) so when I was visiting a parish of another jurisdiction for a baptism and the Godparents were a married couple, I was internally horrified at the spiritually incestuous nature :o

*That's a bit more than small t.

 * This was the point I was trying to make, while understanding how someone could mistakenly come to that conclusion.

* Is it? See even more I didn't know that you can laugh at me for ;D. Are you aware I'm talking about Godfather and Godmother, not other relations between the baptized or the Godparents offspring
« Last Edit: August 17, 2016, 08:32:35 AM by Bob2 »

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Re: Dormition as a name day
« Reply #20 on: August 17, 2016, 08:37:13 AM »

I was told by my Orthodox priest it was impious to take Mary as ones patron saint?

lol

I've been told that in the Russian tradition people do not take the Theotokos as a patron, but are named only after other Marys, but that it is common in other Orthodox traditions. So if this small "t" tradition is all someone has been exposed to I didn't think so crazy for someone to get this idea, albeit misinformed.

If Russians don't take the Theotokos as a patron, that's one thing, but to accuse those who do of impiety is rather ridiculous.  Just my opinion. 

Quote
If you want to laugh at somebody for their silly ideas take me: there is also the small (t) tradition that Godparents can't be married to each other (now or in the future) so when I was visiting a parish of another jurisdiction for a baptism and the Godparents were a married couple, I was internally horrified at the spiritually incestuous nature :o

That's a bit more than small t.
Greeks even take the Lord as their patron, so taking the Panagia is definitely not verboten.

Dormition, Nativity and Pascha account for about half the name day celebrations in the country. :D
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Re: Dormition as a name day
« Reply #21 on: August 17, 2016, 09:38:19 AM »
"Mary".

Mary/Maria, Despina, Panaghiota/Panaghiotis.

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Re: Dormition as a name day
« Reply #22 on: August 17, 2016, 09:44:40 AM »
* Is it? See even more I didn't know that you can laugh at me for ;D. Are you aware I'm talking about Godfather and Godmother, not other relations between the baptized or the Godparents offspring

The restrictions are between a person and their relations through the font - no marriage with their godparent, godsiblings (children of the godparent), or between koumbaroi (the parent of the baptized and the godparent).

As for a married couple standing together to be godparents for a person entering the faith - it's a nice image and all, but technically there is only one sponsor.  It has been the custom among aristocracy and royalty to have many honorary godparents, and a number of us "normal folk" choose to have that, but really only one person's name goes on the certificate and in the registry books.
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Re: Dormition as a name day
« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2016, 01:10:42 PM »
The restrictions are between a person and their relations through the font - no marriage with their godparent, godsiblings (children of the godparent), or between koumbaroi (the parent of the baptized and the godparent).

I once found a list from the Georgian (I believe) website about when marriage is prohibited. If that list was commonly used I don't believe a marriage of two people from a 200-dwellers-village would be possible at all.

speaking of that, a ban of marriage between the godparents seems to live in the people's mentality (despite not being officially listed in the Church documents and being a fairly popular motive in folk songs). similarly for the marriage of people being godchildren of the same person.

Quote
As for a married couple standing together to be godparents for a person entering the faith - it's a nice image and all, but technically there is only one sponsor.  It has been the custom among aristocracy and royalty to have many honorary godparents, and a number of us "normal folk" choose to have that, but really only one person's name goes on the certificate and in the registry books.

I believe that's only representative for Greek tradition.
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Re: Dormition as a name day
« Reply #24 on: August 17, 2016, 01:27:24 PM »
As for a married couple standing together to be godparents for a person entering the faith - it's a nice image and all, but technically there is only one sponsor.  It has been the custom among aristocracy and royalty to have many honorary godparents, and a number of us "normal folk" choose to have that, but really only one person's name goes on the certificate and in the registry books.

I don't know about the Greek tradition abroad, but in Greece it is encouraged to have a married couple as sponsors. (I'm not sure about the only one name on the certificate bit; I believe mine cited both.) They are seen as surrogate parents, should something happen to the biological ones, and at least until recently, the law gave them precedence over grandparents and other relatives when it came to custody issues.
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Offline Daedelus1138

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Re: Dormition as a name day
« Reply #25 on: August 17, 2016, 04:59:05 PM »
That sounds a lot like western churches.  Both my Methodist sponsors were married, they were my mom and dad's family friends.  That is the usual custom.  My actual "godparents", though, were my aunt and uncle that were childless, and both Roman Catholic.
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Re: Dormition as a name day
« Reply #26 on: August 17, 2016, 11:59:08 PM »
* Is it? See even more I didn't know that you can laugh at me for ;D. Are you aware I'm talking about Godfather and Godmother, not other relations between the baptized or the Godparents offspring

The restrictions are between a person and their relations through the font - no marriage with their godparent, godsiblings (children of the godparent), or between koumbaroi (the parent of the baptized and the godparent).

As for a married couple standing together to be godparents for a person entering the faith - it's a nice image and all, but technically there is only one sponsor.  It has been the custom among aristocracy and royalty to have many honorary godparents, and a number of us "normal folk" choose to have that, but really only one person's name goes on the certificate and in the registry books.

Here is the guidance our parish has received from our priest, not suggesting this is the only tradition.
Quote
The choosing of Godparents if very important. The Godparents should be chosen with this in mind: that at the untimely death of the parents one of the Godparents would raise the child. Also, Godparents should participate in the spiritual upbringing of the child by making sure that the parents bring the child to Church regularly. Someone may be your good friend, but at the same time not make a good Godparent. The Godparents should be of an upstanding moral character, regular churchgoers, and not living in violation of the Church’s canons. The Godparent must be an Orthodox Christian. One Godparent of the same gender as the child is mandatory, a second (of the opposite gender) is optional. The two Godparents cannot be married to each other at the time of the baptism or in the future, as the spiritual bond of the Godparent with the child being baptized supercedes any possible bond between the two Godparents.

I've heard it stated that the purpose was to expand the resources available to the baptized by having two families responsible for assisting in the spiritual welfare of the child.

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Re: Dormition as a name day
« Reply #27 on: August 18, 2016, 12:36:21 AM »
I've heard it stated that the purpose was to expand the resources available to the baptized by having two families responsible for assisting in the spiritual welfare of the child.

ftfy
« Last Edit: August 18, 2016, 12:36:48 AM by mike »
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Re: Dormition as a name day
« Reply #28 on: August 18, 2016, 02:21:42 AM »
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Re: Dormition as a name day
« Reply #29 on: August 18, 2016, 06:52:47 AM »
"Mary".

Mary/Maria, Despina, Panaghiota/Panaghiotis.

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Never heard of it, is it a Greek-American custom to name girls, Kimisis?
Another pious tradition (small t) in rural Greece is that unmarried women celebrate their name-day (Maria, Despoina, Panagiota) on November 21, and all the married Marias, Despoinas, Panagiotas, on August 15.
As for a married couple standing together to be godparents for a person entering the faith - it's a nice image and all, but technically there is only one sponsor.  It has been the custom among aristocracy and royalty to have many honorary godparents, and a number of us "normal folk" choose to have that, but really only one person's name goes on the certificate and in the registry books.

I don't know about the Greek tradition abroad, but in Greece it is encouraged to have a married couple as sponsors. (I'm not sure about the only one name on the certificate bit; I believe mine cited both.) They are seen as surrogate parents, should something happen to the biological ones, and at least until recently, the law gave them precedence over grandparents and other relatives when it came to custody issues.
That is true although they do not have the right to legally adopt the child/children, they remain ανάδοχοι. Grandparents on the other hand have the right to legally adopt their grandchildren
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Re: Dormition as a name day
« Reply #30 on: August 18, 2016, 07:00:59 AM »
« Last Edit: August 18, 2016, 07:07:46 AM by Indocern »

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Re: Dormition as a name day
« Reply #31 on: August 18, 2016, 12:13:10 PM »
"Mary".

Mary/Maria, Despina, Panaghiota/Panaghiotis.

Kim (for Kimisis)
Never heard of it, is it a Greek-American custom to name girls, Kimisis?

Maybe someone names their daughter "Kim(berly)" and then looks for a name day for her.   
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Offline iohanne

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Re: Dormition as a name day
« Reply #32 on: August 18, 2016, 05:01:16 PM »
This isn't a very eastern name and I'm unsure as to its orthodoxy but I believe Asunción is an old-timey Spanish name that refers to the corresponding Latin feast of the end of Mary's earthly life.

Offline Porter ODoran

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Re: Dormition as a name day
« Reply #33 on: August 19, 2016, 08:37:31 PM »
I once found a list from the Georgian (I believe) website about when marriage is prohibited. If that list was commonly used I don't believe a marriage of two people from a 200-dwellers-village would be possible at all.
[/quote]

The villagers do not marry each other. They marry from certain other villages. And, by the way, this is an extremely ancient practice that can be found in many places around the world.
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Offline Fr. George

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Re: Dormition as a name day
« Reply #34 on: August 26, 2016, 08:17:49 PM »
As for a married couple standing together to be godparents for a person entering the faith - it's a nice image and all, but technically there is only one sponsor.  It has been the custom among aristocracy and royalty to have many honorary godparents, and a number of us "normal folk" choose to have that, but really only one person's name goes on the certificate and in the registry books.

I don't know about the Greek tradition abroad, but in Greece it is encouraged to have a married couple as sponsors. (I'm not sure about the only one name on the certificate bit; I believe mine cited both.)

We encourage the same often times - but still only one of their names goes on the certificate.  The point is, of course, moot with a married couple - they are "one," so if one is listed on the certificate they are both still the godparents.

They are seen as surrogate parents, should something happen to the biological ones, and at least until recently, the law gave them precedence over grandparents and other relatives when it came to custody issues.

Tell me about it.  My grandfather was raised by his godparents after his parents died (he was 10), and my father brought his godson (and the godson's sister) into our house when their father was unable to raise them.  We take being sponsors very seriously in our family tree - in this case, the Water of baptism is truly "thicker than blood."
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Offline Fr. George

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Re: Dormition as a name day
« Reply #35 on: August 26, 2016, 08:19:54 PM »
Here is the guidance our parish has received from our priest, not suggesting this is the only tradition.

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The choosing of Godparents if very important. The Godparents should be chosen with this in mind: that at the untimely death of the parents one of the Godparents would raise the child. Also, Godparents should participate in the spiritual upbringing of the child by making sure that the parents bring the child to Church regularly. Someone may be your good friend, but at the same time not make a good Godparent. The Godparents should be of an upstanding moral character, regular churchgoers, and not living in violation of the Church’s canons. The Godparent must be an Orthodox Christian. One Godparent of the same gender as the child is mandatory, a second (of the opposite gender) is optional. The two Godparents cannot be married to each other at the time of the baptism or in the future, as the spiritual bond of the Godparent with the child being baptized supercedes any possible bond between the two Godparents.

I've heard it stated that the purpose was to expand the resources available to the baptized by having two families responsible for assisting in the spiritual welfare of the child.

That could well be true.  I was baptized by two people (but only one name on the certificate) who were not married to each other (and in turn they married other people).  It meant I had two sets of godparents growing up, which was a double blessing because each couple was "strong" in a different element of the Orthodox life.
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