OrthodoxChristianity.net
September 15, 2014, 05:35:08 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 »  All   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: De Gloria Olivae and the next Pope.  (Read 28520 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Ebor
Vanyar
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 6,404



« Reply #45 on: April 19, 2005, 02:20:52 PM »

Is this not spooking anyone else?

No

In the last 2 weeks people on this forum have been saying that 1) it *had* to be Lustiger since he was born a Jew and "olives" mean Jews 2) it would be a Benedictine (because they had a subgroup called the Olivetians) and (iirc) that he would take the name "Pius".  Well, that's 3 for 3 that didn't happen.  So, sorry, I'm not spooked and I'm *not* looking for prophetic significance in every last thing. 

Maybe I've seen too much of people getting wound up over "prophecies" that turned out to be nonsense

Ebor

« Last Edit: April 19, 2005, 02:24:42 PM by Ebor » Logged

"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.
Ntinos
Σαλός
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 355


« Reply #46 on: April 19, 2005, 02:37:57 PM »

"+£+++¦+¡+++¦ -Ç-ü++ -ä++-Ã  -ä+¡++++-Ã -é +++¦+¦+¼-ü+¦+¦+¦..."
Logged

Ebor
Vanyar
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 6,404



« Reply #47 on: April 19, 2005, 02:39:43 PM »

"+£+++¦+¡+++¦ -Ç-ü++ -ä++-Ã  -ä+¡++++-Ã -é +++¦+¦+¼-ü+¦+¦+¦..."


Translation please? 

Ebor
Logged

"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.
TomS
Banned
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: GOA
Posts: 3,186


"Look At Me! Look At Me Now! " - Bono


« Reply #48 on: April 19, 2005, 02:41:06 PM »

"+£+++¦+¡+++¦ -Ç-ü++ -ä++-Ã  -ä+¡++++-Ã -é +++¦+¦+¼-ü+¦+¦+¦..."

Translation please?

I think it says "I want my MTV"
Logged
GiC
Resident Atheist
Site Supporter
Merarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Mathematician
Posts: 9,490



« Reply #49 on: April 19, 2005, 02:55:29 PM »

"+£+++¦+¡+++¦ -Ç-ü++ -ä++-Ã  -ä+¡++++-Ã -é +++¦+¦+¼-ü+¦+¦+¦..."

I believe it roughly translates to 'do not think anyone fortunate until their end' (From Aristotle, right?)
Logged

"The liberties of people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." -- Patrick Henry
Ntinos
Σαλός
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 355


« Reply #50 on: April 19, 2005, 02:57:14 PM »

Yes. Over the ages, it came to be used as the phrase: "Do not judge anyone before their end".
« Last Edit: April 19, 2005, 02:59:02 PM by Ntinos » Logged

Ebor
Vanyar
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 6,404



« Reply #51 on: April 19, 2005, 03:05:25 PM »

80.
Praise day at even, a wife when dead,
a weapon when tried, a maid when married,
ice when 'tis crossed, and ale when 'tis drunk

From the "Havamal" I first heard the opening as "Praise no day til it's over..."

http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/havamal.html

Some thoughts are universal

Ebor
Logged

"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.
Anastasios
Webdespota
Administrator
Merarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Old Calendarist
Posts: 10,444


Metropolitan Chrysostomos of Florina

anastasios0513
WWW
« Reply #52 on: April 19, 2005, 04:28:48 PM »

Dear Guests,

I noticed there are many of you reading this thread. Welcome to our site, and please feel free to register and learn more about Orthodox Christianity.  All good-natured persons are welcome to be a member of this forum.

Anastasios
Administrator
Logged

Please Buy My Book!

Disclaimer: Past posts reflect stages of my life before my baptism may not be accurate expositions of Orthodo
Robert
"Amazing"
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,442



« Reply #53 on: April 19, 2005, 04:30:03 PM »

De Gloria Olivae Pope Prophecy Malachi Malachy Saint Prophecy Roman Catholic De Gloria Olivae Pope Prophecy Malachi Malachy Saint Prophecy Roman Catholic De Gloria Olivae Pope Prophecy Malachi Malachy Saint Prophecy Roman Catholic De Gloria Olivae Pope Prophecy Malachi Malachy Saint Prophecy Roman Catholic De Gloria Olivae Pope Prophecy Malachi Malachy Saint Prophecy Roman Catholic De Gloria Olivae Pope Prophecy Malachi Malachy Saint Prophecy Roman Catholic De Gloria Olivae Pope Prophecy Malachi Malachy Saint Prophecy Roman Catholic De Gloria Olivae Pope Prophecy Malachi Malachy Saint Prophecy Roman Catholic De Gloria Olivae Pope Prophecy Malachi Malachy Saint Prophecy Roman Catholic De Gloria Olivae Pope Prophecy Malachi Malachy Saint Prophecy Roman Catholic De Gloria Olivae Pope Prophecy Malachi Malachy Saint Prophecy Roman Catholic De Gloria Olivae Pope Prophecy Malachi Malachy Saint Prophecy Roman Catholic De Gloria Olivae Pope Prophecy Malachi Malachy Saint Prophecy Roman Catholic De Gloria Olivae Pope Prophecy Malachi Malachy Saint Prophecy Roman Catholic De Gloria Olivae Pope Prophecy Malachi Malachy Saint Prophecy Roman Catholic De Gloria Olivae Pope Prophecy Malachi Malachy Saint Prophecy Roman Catholic De Gloria Olivae Pope Prophecy Malachi Malachy Saint Prophecy Roman Catholic De Gloria Olivae Pope Prophecy Malachi Malachy Saint Prophecy Roman Catholic De Gloria Olivae Pope Prophecy Malachi Malachy Saint Prophecy Roman Catholic De Gloria Olivae Pope Prophecy Malachi Malachy Saint Prophecy Roman Catholic De Gloria Olivae Pope Prophecy Malachi Malachy Saint Prophecy Roman Catholic De Gloria Olivae Pope Prophecy Malachi Malachy Saint Prophecy Roman Catholic

Google should bump us up now Smiley
Logged
Schultz
Christian. Guitarist. Zymurgist. Librarian.
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 6,469


Scion of the McKeesport Becks.


WWW
« Reply #54 on: April 19, 2005, 04:39:34 PM »


Is it me, or would you be creeped out if you went onto a site looking for info about St. Malachy and read Dustin's post?

I know I would.
Logged

"Hearing a nun's confession is like being stoned to death with popcorn." --Abp. Fulton Sheen
Anastasios
Webdespota
Administrator
Merarches
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Eastern Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Greek Old Calendarist
Posts: 10,444


Metropolitan Chrysostomos of Florina

anastasios0513
WWW
« Reply #55 on: April 19, 2005, 04:50:42 PM »


Is it me, or would you be creeped out if you went onto a site looking for info about St. Malachy and read Dustin's post?

I know I would.

It's just you Smiley  We have 60 guests reading this thread right now and I just want them to know they are welcome to join our forum. Smiley
Logged

Please Buy My Book!

Disclaimer: Past posts reflect stages of my life before my baptism may not be accurate expositions of Orthodo
optxogokcoc
orthodoxos
Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 132


« Reply #56 on: April 19, 2005, 05:06:43 PM »

No he is not benedictine... but hey... look at his NAME....  Lets keep playing..  Smiley
Logged
Robert
"Amazing"
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,442



« Reply #57 on: April 19, 2005, 05:22:39 PM »

this is ridiculous ....

Logged
Elisha
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 4,420


« Reply #58 on: April 19, 2005, 05:57:41 PM »

Ebor and Deacon Lance,
Thanks for the article reference.  It solidified the timeline and context I had read in other fora (not this one).
Logged
Jakub
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,747



« Reply #59 on: April 19, 2005, 06:39:08 PM »

I told you guys, after the Red Sox won the WS, it was a sign of the end of times.

People get ready, there's a train a-coming......

james

Logged

An old timer is a man who's had a lot of interesting experiences -- some of them true.

Grant me the senility to forget the people I never liked anyway, the good fortune to run into the ones I do, and the eyesight to tell the difference.
Ebor
Vanyar
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 6,404



« Reply #60 on: April 19, 2005, 06:54:25 PM »

I told you guys, after the Red Sox won the WS, it was a sign of the end of times.

People get ready, there's a train a-coming......

....and it's saying "woo-woo?"  Grin 

For reference "woo-woo" meanings:
http://www.watchingyou.com/woowoo.html
http://www.doubletongued.org/index.php/dictionary/woo_woo/

Though, interestingly, there *is* a baseball link to the term too:

http://www.ronniewoowoo.com/

Ebor
Logged

"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.
Ebor
Vanyar
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Posts: 6,404



« Reply #61 on: April 19, 2005, 06:57:07 PM »

Yes. Over the ages, it came to be used as the phrase: "Do not judge anyone before their end".

Well, considering all the "prophecy" business over the last 2 weeks as well as talk of things like Cardinal Lustigar being a "Jew"  and the end times etc etc, it seems like there was a good deal of "judging" before the beginning...
 :-

Ebor

P.S.  you're welcome, Elisha.  At your service in the hunt for information  Wink

Logged

"I wish they would remember that the charge to Peter was "Feed my sheep", not "Try experiments on my rats", or even "Teach my performing dogs new tricks". - C. S. Lewis

The Katana of Reasoned Discussion

For some a world view is more like a neighborhood watch.
Jennifer
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Posts: 1,154


« Reply #62 on: April 19, 2005, 06:58:27 PM »


Deacon Lance,
I was actually just making a statement to set it at contrast with the claim that he was a Jew...as desparate as the Nazis were for manpower, they did not knowingly admited Jews into the ranks of the Hitler Youth. Ratzinger has enough Ecclesiological, Theological, Christological, and Phenomenological problems to criticize without being too concerned with his political preferences...infact I would be far less concerned if he was a loyal Nazi but held to the Orthodox Faith; social politics are generally superficial things relative to issues of the Faith.

You write the most outrageous things, Greekchristian.  You would prefer a Nazi to a believing Catholic?  I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that's not what you intended to write. 

Am I the only one who is bothered by a seminarian concluding that the new pope (a seventy-something year old man who has been through the culture "wars" of the last several decades) has theological and christological problems?  He's a good Christian so let's cut him some slack.  We're not inviting him to say the liturgy at our churches, for goodness's sakes. 

When the persecutions start, do you think our enemies will differentiate between those of us who believe the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son and those who believe it proceeds only from the Father?  I can see it now, all of the Christians are rounded up and some little piquesqueak who's read a few books and debated on the internet will insist that he doesn't want to be in the same prison cell with them.  God forbid!
Logged
Jennifer
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Posts: 1,154


« Reply #63 on: April 19, 2005, 07:00:08 PM »

Dear Guests,

I noticed there are many of you reading this thread. Welcome to our site, and please feel free to register and learn more about Orthodox Christianity. All good-natured persons are welcome to be a member of this forum.

Anastasios
Administrator

What about those of us who aren't "good-natured?"  Wink
Logged
Ntinos
Σαλός
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 355


« Reply #64 on: April 19, 2005, 07:07:25 PM »

Quote
Well, considering all the "prophecy" business over the last 2 weeks as well as talk of things like Cardinal Lustigar being a "Jew"  and the end times etc etc, it seems like there was a good deal of "judging" before the beginning...

Cardinal Lustiger is a Jew... and there is nothing wrong with trying to predict the future based on Church prophecies.
Logged

Jennifer
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Posts: 1,154


« Reply #65 on: April 19, 2005, 07:09:56 PM »



Cardinal Lustiger is a Jew... and there is nothing wrong with trying to predict the future based on Church prophecies.

Actually, no he's not a "Jew."  He's a Roman Catholic who was born Jewish. 

Trying to predict the future is very wrong even if we rely upon "Church prophecies."  I remind you that the prophecies of St. Malachy are not "Church prophecies."  In fact, I don't think there are any "Church prophecies."  We don't use the prophecies of saints to "predict the future." 

Logged
Ntinos
Σαλός
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 355


« Reply #66 on: April 19, 2005, 07:18:15 PM »

Quote
Actually, no he's not a "Jew."  He's a Roman Catholic who was born Jewish. 

Mind his own words first.

Quote
As an archbishop who has not been shy about discussing his Jewish past -- he once told reporters he still considered himself to be a Jew and had a "dual affiliation"
http://www.catholicnews.com/jpii/cardinals/0501847.htm


Quote
Trying to predict the future is very wrong even if we rely upon "Church prophecies."  I remind you that the prophecies of St. Malachy are not "Church prophecies."  In fact, I don't think there are any "Church prophecies."  We don't use the prophecies of saints to "predict the future."

Why would it be wrong?
Logged

Robert
"Amazing"
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,442



« Reply #67 on: April 19, 2005, 08:32:08 PM »

even though this is free-for-all, i suggest people back up their assertions with proven facts and not conjecture. If this gets out of hand it's going to get closed.
Logged
GiC
Resident Atheist
Site Supporter
Merarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Mathematician
Posts: 9,490



« Reply #68 on: April 19, 2005, 08:45:11 PM »

You write the most outrageous things, Greekchristian. You would prefer a Nazi to a believing Catholic? I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that's not what you intended to write.

I was just making the point that political preference is of nominal significance in comparison to matters of Faith, and thus I am not very concerned about his politics, whatever they are; read into it what you will, but that is all I said.

Am I the only one who is bothered by a seminarian concluding that the new pope (a seventy-something year old man who has been through the culture "wars" of the last several decades) has theological and christological problems? He's a good Christian so let's cut him some slack. We're not inviting him to say the liturgy at our churches, for goodness's sakes.

Last I checked, being 78 doesnt make on immune to heresy. And yes I will stand by my statement that he has significant theological problems. Filioque, Azymes, Purgatory, Papal Infallibility, need I go on? Surely you dont believe that these theologies are Orthodox or even acceptable to the Orthodox, if so you have more important things to be bothered about than my belief that Ratzinger is not Orthodox.

When the persecutions start, do you think our enemies will differentiate between those of us who believe the Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son and those who believe it proceeds only from the Father? I can see it now, all of the Christians are rounded up and some little piquesqueak who's read a few books and debated on the internet will insist that he doesn't want to be in the same prison cell with them. God forbid!

Ultimately, if we cannot agree on our Trinitarian Theology, we technically dont believe in the same God, just something to keep in mind. I really dont understand how you can try and trivialize issues that are at the very core of our faith, or Dogmas on the Trinity itself; this is not a minor issue that can be pushed aside, but is ultimatley the same issue (Trinitarian Theology) that fundamentally separates us from the Moslems, Jews, or Buddhists and Hindu for that matter. And I fear that this Pope is going to insist on the maintaining of this heretical theology, and progress in the oecumenical dialogue will stop.
Logged

"The liberties of people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." -- Patrick Henry
Kizzy
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 229



« Reply #69 on: April 19, 2005, 10:32:26 PM »

And I fear that this Pope is going to insist on the maintaining of this heretical theology, and progress in the oecumenical dialogue will stop.

Actually, this was a fear I had as well. However, I note a few things important about Pope B XVI. He will not liberalize the faith- meaning no gay marriages, female clergy, etc.  and this I think is good, given the current climate where some people are eager to 'let hell break loose', to legitimize their current life choices...   I read that he was in fact the one who wrote the apology to the Jews for the Pope JPII.  He must have been involved in the dialogue with the EO as well, given his position.  So I am hopeful that he will continue the dialogue.

As to your other points, I respect him as a deeply spritual Christian and despite the points of difference that result from his being RC, I believe God shows mercy for all of our inadequacies  that come from our humanness.. ,especially those that are the result of  a long and turbulent history.  I think these words of Vassula Ryden sum it up. 


"God’s Calling to a deep metanoia, fruit of humility that leads us to reconciliation and unity


We, the people of the churches, must realize that we are living in a constant sin, the sin of our division. "Every kingdom divided against itself is laid waste, and no city or house divided against itself will stand." (Mt.12, 25). Even if this division did not come directly from us but from our forefathers, still, we are keeping it alive so long as we remain divided. We cannot say that God is pleased when the shepherds are still separated. We cannot deign to talk about unity without going through a metanoia and put into practice the two greatest commandments of God. It will be as though we want to construct a house without laying down first its foundations. The foundations of unity should be humility and divine love and the conversion of our hearts. For how could we believe that we could reach unity if we do not repent and live fully the two greatest commandments that are based on the law of love? "

"My earnest wish is that the West and the East meet. I need those two pillars of My Church to come together and consolidate My Church."
(Jesus to Vassula, October 5, 1994)

For those interested in prophecy.. The words of Jesus penned through Vassula Ryden may be of interest.http://www.tlig.org/
  Vassula was invited to Romania by both the Pope JPII  and Patriarch of Romania Teostist , where she delivered to them a dossier with the messages from God which she has received, and the core is a message of unity...She is GO and has preached all over the world with a core message to rebuild God's house into one...

In XC, Kizzy

 



Logged

In XC, Kizzy
Veniamin
Fire for Effect!
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA Diocese of the South
Posts: 3,372


St. Barbara, patroness of the Field Artillery


« Reply #70 on: April 19, 2005, 10:45:38 PM »

Christ's Church is already one.  There are not many churches, but one Church, just as there is one Body of Christ.

While I hope for union with Rome one day, that union will not be that of two parts of a single Church (or two separate Churches) reuniting, but will be those who were once part of the Church and ceased to be part of it joining thmeselves to it once again.  Pope Benedict may continue John Paul II's work towards rejoining the Church with all diligence and if he does, we should do everything in our power possible to effect Rome's return to the Church with rejoicing.  Glossing over our differences by referring to them as merely a separated portion of the Church does no one any favors in the quest for union.  It merely serves to obscure what the Church's understanding of itself actually is, and that understanding is of one Body of Christ that can never be divided, for that would go against the very nature of Christ and His Church.
Logged

Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl. ~Frederick the Great
Sabbas
Drink from your own wells
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 503

St. Glicherie True Orthodox Church of Romania


« Reply #71 on: April 19, 2005, 10:59:35 PM »

With regards to Ecumenical Dialogue. I think you all need to realize that a faithful Catholic, such as Benedict XVI, cannot make the Roman church Orthodox or truly Catholic, even if he wanted to which he does not. Why? because doctrines such IC and Papal Infallibility, and the Filioque, cannot simply be changed. In fact the Catholic would have to admit itself wrong, that it made mistakes meaning that the Holy Spirit withdrew His guidance from the Roman church. Do any of you honestly believe that faithful Catholics would ever admit this? I know some of you were Catholic, and some such as myself, come from very traditionalist Catholic families and areas. If you come from one of these families or areas you are certain that IC and Papal Infallibility are facts that God has revealed or you are not Catholic period! For the Catholic church to become Orthodox it would have to deny that it has been the Church for the past thousand years. This is why many who come from Roman Catholicism to Orthodoxy, such as Hieromonk Ambrose, formerly Fr.Alexey Young, are opposed to and appalled by all the ecumenical dialogues taking place. They already know what is going on. The Roman church wants us to concede and condemn ourselves on certain issues and incorporate us into the Unia like it has done in the past.
Anyone who knows what it means to be a faithful Catholic knows that the Roman church will never, outside of some great miracle, come back to the Orthodox Church. If you want to be Orthodox be Orthodox and recognize that while we are called to love everybody we cannot out of love deny them the Truth. If you want to be in the Roman church and venerate every man who becomes pope as a living saint, along with a lot of other heretical innovations, join the Roman church.
Plus can you imagine how many people would leave the Roman church if the Pope and the majority of Archbishops tried to lead their flock into the Orthodox Church? They have enough trouble right now combatting modernism and relativism.

Quote
Ultimately, if we cannot agree on our Trinitarian Theology, we technically dont believe in the same God, just something to keep in mind. I really dont understand how you can try and trivialize issues that are at the very core of our faith, or Dogmas on the Trinity itself; this is not a minor issue that can be pushed aside, but is ultimatley the same issue (Trinitarian Theology) that fundamentally separates us from the Moslems, Jews, or Buddhists and Hindu for that matter. And I fear that this Pope is going to insist on the maintaining of this heretical theology, and progress in the oecumenical dialogue will stop.
Thank you for writing that! I remember that St.Gregory Palamas wrote that there is no difference between heresy and Atheism. You've have made this point quite well.
Logged

www.hungersite.com  Ãƒâ€šÃ‚  www.freedonation.com you can donate up to 20 times at freedonation.  http://www.pomog.org/ has online 1851 Sir Lancelot C.L. Brenton English translation of Septuagint.http://www.cnrs.ubc.ca/greekbible/ Original Koine Septuagint and New Testament.
GiC
Resident Atheist
Site Supporter
Merarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Mathematician
Posts: 9,490



« Reply #72 on: April 19, 2005, 11:07:08 PM »

Kizzy,

I too believe that reunion between east and west is important, which is why I am as concerned as I am about Ratzinger, the truth of the matter is that John Paul II was too 'conservative' on certain doctrinal issues and did very little to advance the Oecumenical Dialogue, it has essentially stood still for these past 25 years, and I fear that I have good cause to believe that Ratzinger will not be much more open on these issues than John Paul II was. Though I hate to make these statements during the mourning period after John Paul II's death, I will do so as a new Pope has been elected: from an Orthodox perspective John Paul II was far worse stubborn than Popes John XXIII and Paul VI who were far more open and actually accomplished somethings towards the reconciliation of East and West, and I fear that Ratzinger will continue in the footsteps of John Paul II, perhaps even being less cooperative, rather than return to the openess and progress in oecumenical dialogue that we enjoyed with John XXIII and Paul VI.

Sabbas,
Some say that John Paul I may have formally renounced (Ex Cathedra) the doctrine of Papal Infallibility had he lived, reconciliation is possible, but it will require the right pope, I dont think Ratzinger is that pope.
Logged

"The liberties of people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." -- Patrick Henry
Veniamin
Fire for Effect!
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: OCA Diocese of the South
Posts: 3,372


St. Barbara, patroness of the Field Artillery


« Reply #73 on: April 19, 2005, 11:09:56 PM »

Some say that John Paul I may have formally renounced (Ex Cathedra) the doctrine of Papal Infallibility had he lived, reconciliation is possible, but it will require the right pope, I dont think Ratzinger is that pope.

So he would have used Papal Infallibility to renounce Papal Infallibility? Huh
Logged

Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl. ~Frederick the Great
GiC
Resident Atheist
Site Supporter
Merarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Mathematician
Posts: 9,490



« Reply #74 on: April 19, 2005, 11:13:16 PM »

So he would have used Papal Infallibility to renounce Papal Infallibility? Huh

No better way to undermine a doctrine than to establish a blatant contradiction in it...especially in the eyes of the west. Wink
Logged

"The liberties of people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." -- Patrick Henry
Phyltre
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4


« Reply #75 on: April 19, 2005, 11:40:13 PM »

The following is from wikipedia:

----------------------------------------------------------
Pope Benedict XVI (Gloria Olivae)

The next motto is Gloria Olivae, the glory of the olive. Prior to the papal conclave, this motto led to speculation that the next pontiff would be from the Order of Saint Benedict, whose symbols include the olive branch. Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, selected in April 2005, is not a Benedictine, but did pick Benedict XVI as his papal name, which might be regarded as a fulfillment of this prophecy.

Alternatively, less specific interpreters have predicted that the next pope will promote world peace (as in an olive branch). Pope Benedict XVI has chosen "Pax" (peace) as his papal motto. The self-proclaimed Pope Clemente Dom+¡nguez y G+¦mez of the Palmarian Catholic Church claimed that he was the glory of the olive.

There had already been, before the election of pope, a concomitance in two unrelated events occurring on the opening date of the 2005 Conclaves. First, a Turkish presidential candidate won overnight the northern Cyprus elections favouring re-unification peace talks of the two sectors; the Cyprus flag has two inter-locking olive branches in it. Secondly, the Italian Prime Minister has seriously been considering resigning and holding early general elections succumbing to pressure from the leftist opposition called l'Ulivo.
---------------------------------------------------------------

Whether it is just wishful thinking, or some correlation holy or unholy, I doubt we can say.  But Ratzinger hardly breaks the prophecy line, given the above.
Logged

NULL
Jennifer
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Posts: 1,154


« Reply #76 on: April 19, 2005, 11:46:49 PM »

What the nit-pickers fail to realize is that the papacy is the only thing keeping Roman Catholicism together.  Ultimately a strong Roman Catholic Church is good for us Orthodox and all Christians because the papacy is a bully pulpit for very important issues. 

Abortion is more important than the filioque.  Gay marriage is more important than azymes. 

He appears to be a good man who is right about these very important issues so let's give him some respect. 

I don't care too much about ecumenism.  We'll see a reunion when God wills it.  It will be a miracle.  It won't happen as a result of talks between self-important theologians.  A strong papacy may make things hard for the professional ecumenists but it provides a strong witness against abortion and gay marriage. 

Logged
Αριστοκλής
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese
Posts: 10,026


« Reply #77 on: April 20, 2005, 12:02:48 AM »

What the nit-pickers fail to realize is that the papacy is the only thing keeping Roman Catholicism together. pen as

I agree with you here, but this still exposes the error in infallibility - one person, one bishop, can harm or preserve them. That has got to make at least some of them worry; maybe think that something is wrong?
Logged

"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure." - Fr. John S. Romanides
Jennifer
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Posts: 1,154


« Reply #78 on: April 20, 2005, 12:11:03 AM »


I agree with you here, but this still exposes the error in infallibility - one person, one bishop, can harm or preserve them. That has got to make at least some of them worry; maybe think that something is wrong?

I think God uses what He has available.  We know that secular leaders who aren't even Christians can do God's will. 

It seems to me that God has taken a bad thing, infallibility and supremacy, and turned it into something good, e.g. a bully pulpit. 

Logged
Jennifer
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Posts: 1,154


« Reply #79 on: April 20, 2005, 12:16:58 AM »

Here's Fr. Patrick Reardon's thoughts on the new pope.  I've met Fr. Reardon several times and he's a very wise man and a good priest. 

Logged
Αριστοκλής
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese
Posts: 10,026


« Reply #80 on: April 20, 2005, 12:32:04 AM »

Here's Fr. Patrick Reardon's thoughts on the new pope. I've met Fr. Reardon several times and he's a very wise man and a good priest.


I am glad you like him. Some don't.
Logged

"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure." - Fr. John S. Romanides
Jennifer
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Church in America
Posts: 1,154


« Reply #81 on: April 20, 2005, 12:34:32 AM »


I am glad you like him. Some don't.

I don't agree with his politics but he's a nice man and a good priest. 

Logged
helen
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 25


« Reply #82 on: April 20, 2005, 01:06:55 AM »

Read on what Fr Andrew has to say about the New Pope.....

quote////For Orthodox, the fact that the new Pope,
the Bavarian Cardinal Ratzinger,
 has taken the name of Benedict has both positive and negative aspects.
 It is positive because St Benedict was one of the great early Orthodox monastic fathers of Western Europe, who brought Orthodoxy from the East to the West.
 However, Orthodox cannot forget that the last Pope Benedict,
Benedict XV (1914-1922),
 one who tried to reconcile Catholic modernists and Catholic traditionalists,
 hated Orthodox Russia.
 He not only rejoiced at her fall,
 but immediately, in 1917, set up institutions to preach Catholicism there,
and in 1920 saw the Turkish government,
that had committed genocide against Armenian and Greek Christians alike, erect a statue in gratitude to him.

The fact that this election has come on the feast-day of St Methodius, the ninth-century Apostle of the Slavs and Archbishop of Moravia, is not a good sign either.

more from here........
http://www.orthodoxengland.btinternet.co.uk/newpope.htm

have mercy on me a sinner
helen...
Logged

NULL
Αριστοκλής
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Catholic
Jurisdiction: American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese
Posts: 10,026


« Reply #83 on: April 20, 2005, 01:15:45 AM »



I don't agree with his politics but he's a nice man and a good priest.



Thanks (seriously). I'll remember that when things get wild at our informal coffee sessions (me, a deacon and one or two priests) after just about every article he gets published.
Logged

"Religion is a neurobiological illness and Orthodoxy is its cure." - Fr. John S. Romanides
Elisha
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Jurisdiction: OCA
Posts: 4,420


« Reply #84 on: April 20, 2005, 01:25:24 AM »

You have to like this though (about Ratzinger from the Touchstone link):

“Putting the smack down on heresy since 1981.”
Logged
GiC
Resident Atheist
Site Supporter
Merarches
*****
Offline Offline

Faith: Mathematician
Posts: 9,490



« Reply #85 on: April 20, 2005, 01:35:42 AM »

What the nit-pickers fail to realize is that the papacy is the only thing keeping Roman Catholicism together. Ultimately a strong Roman Catholic Church is good for us Orthodox and all Christians because the papacy is a bully pulpit for very important issues.

Abortion is more important than the filioque. Gay marriage is more important than azymes.

He appears to be a good man who is right about these very important issues so let's give him some respect.

I don't care too much about ecumenism. We'll see a reunion when God wills it. It will be a miracle. It won't happen as a result of talks between self-important theologians. A strong papacy may make things hard for the professional ecumenists but it provides a strong witness against abortion and gay marriage.

Is murder a worse crime than Heresy? Are civil laws of greater value than our Christology? I wouldn't be so quick to answer in the manner that you did, and I do not understand the basis on which you place political influence above Orthodox Theology. It would be infinitely better for Rome to return to the Orthodox Faith and suffer her share of evils, instead of trying to maintain the status quo so that can she remain prominent in the political arenas of secular and atheistic states. But my understanding of what you wrote is in error, I hope you are not truly suggesting compromising doctrinal integrity for political gain.
Logged

"The liberties of people never were, nor ever will be, secure, when the transactions of their rulers may be concealed from them." -- Patrick Henry
Ntinos
Σαλός
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 355


« Reply #86 on: April 20, 2005, 04:13:18 AM »

Quote
There had already been, before the election of pope, a concomitance in two unrelated events occurring on the opening date of the 2005 Conclaves. First, a Turkish presidential candidate won overnight the northern Cyprus elections favouring re-unification peace talks of the two sectors; the Cyprus flag has two inter-locking olive branches in it. Secondly, the Italian Prime Minister has seriously been considering resigning and holding early general elections succumbing to pressure from the leftist opposition called l'Ulivo.

The argument about Cyprus is... very out of place. The same presidential Candidate won the last time, with "peace-talks" over re-unification of the two sectors. Unless peace actually occurs, this is a non-valid argument that peace will be to the world.

EDIT: I'm actually beginning to like the new Pope's style lately, after listening to how he preaches. He is ultra-conservative, but he is also a warrior, which makes a powerful combination fitting for a Pope, that could strike a difference to the world. The problem is on what the difference he makes will be.

I would like to hear his views on the European Constitution, however. If someone knows something relative, please inform me!
« Last Edit: April 20, 2005, 04:24:19 AM by Ntinos » Logged

optxogokcoc
orthodoxos
Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 132


« Reply #87 on: April 20, 2005, 04:32:59 AM »

JENNIFER:"Abortion is more important than the filioque.  Gay marriage is more important than azymes."


I will agree to disagree. God help us if this is the concensus of the faithful.





Logged
cizinec
High Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 941


There ain't no way but the hard way.


« Reply #88 on: April 20, 2005, 08:42:29 AM »

I doubt that is the consensus.
Logged

"Brother, your best friend ain't your Momma, it's the Field Artillery."
Kizzy
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 229



« Reply #89 on: April 20, 2005, 10:07:30 AM »

JENNIFER:"Abortion is more important than the filioque. Gay marriage is more important than azymes."


I will agree to disagree. God help us if this is the concensus of the faithful.




I don't know of a national consensus in the church as I haven't seen a survey,  but I would say that the topic of abortion and gay marriage does generate more discussion as these are related to how one lives the faith...Christian living in everyday life is a big concern... so they do go hand in hand.  Anna Quindlen wrote in one of the magazines (i think Time) that millions of the people at the pope's funeral mourned him though many were living totally against church teaching...with premarital living being so common in Europe for example... So I think it natural that the Pope selected is one who says... we are not about to have  a 'free for all here in the name of Christ...'

Most people I know, when it comes to the Creed and the filioque, while they say, "i believe" this topic is more ethereal, and leaves room for expansion and discussion...
it is never as concrete as their opinions on abortion and gay marriage...which have a manifestation people can see and experience first hand and therefore have  a definite opinion on the consequences of such choices...

In XC, Kizzy

 


Logged

In XC, Kizzy
Tags:
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 »  All   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.136 seconds with 72 queries.