OrthodoxChristianity.net
September 22, 2014, 12:36:23 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: You wil not inherit the kingdom you have not lived yet  (Read 480 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Skydive
Warned
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 430



« on: March 28, 2014, 02:41:17 PM »

”Don't you ever think. That after your death. You will inherit. The kingdom that you . Have not lived yet here on earth.” Elder Arsenie Boca

What does that mean? Does it mean that if you don't have faith that you can do everything and are still fearing things, feeling insecure, doubting, being scared, afraid, without the transfigurating force within you and without security that you will not pass and overcome the barrier of Hades/Death/Hell into Heaven after death?
« Last Edit: March 28, 2014, 02:42:04 PM by Skydive » Logged

"I will not attack your doctrines nor your creeds if they accord liberty to me. If they hold thought to be dangerous - if they aver that doubt is a crime, then I attack them one and all, because they enslave the minds of men."

Robert Green Ingersoll
LizaSymonenko
Слава Ісусу Христу!!! Glory to Jesus Christ!!!
Global Moderator
Toumarches
******
Offline Offline

Faith: God's Holy Catholic and Apostolic Orthodox Church
Jurisdiction: Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the U.S.A.
Posts: 13,021



WWW
« Reply #1 on: March 28, 2014, 02:59:43 PM »

”Don't you ever think. That after your death. You will inherit. The kingdom that you . Have not lived yet here on earth.” Elder Arsenie Boca

What does that mean? Does it mean that if you don't have faith that you can do everything and are still fearing things, feeling insecure, doubting, being scared, afraid, without the transfigurating force within you and without security that you will not pass and overcome the barrier of Hades/Death/Hell into Heaven after death?

I think it means that you need to come to the realization of who God is, to accept Him and His teachings, to live by His laws (at least make a descent attempt to do so), to search for Him...while alive.

If you die, without any of these....you have lived an empty and shallow life.  You have made no progress in your life....therefore, why would you consider yourself worthy to inherit anything?

Children who misbehave, who leave the family, who go off in a different direction, are often disinherited.

However, remember the parable of the Prodigal Son....the Father RUNS to meet his wayward son.  He doesn't just wait...he runs to meet him...and he doesn't just take him back in to the household....he takes him back as his son.

There is always hope....but, that son needed to turn back and go home, before he died in the pigpen.

Logged

Conquer evil men by your gentle kindness, and make zealous men wonder at your goodness. Put the lover of legality to shame by your compassion. With the afflicted be afflicted in mind. Love all men, but keep distant from all men.
—St. Isaac of Syria
yeshuaisiam
Protokentarchos
*********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox, Anabaptist, Other Early Christianity kind of jumbled together
Posts: 4,238


A pulling horse cannot kick.


« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2014, 03:42:05 PM »

”Don't you ever think. That after your death. You will inherit. The kingdom that you . Have not lived yet here on earth.” Elder Arsenie Boca

What does that mean? Does it mean that if you don't have faith that you can do everything and are still fearing things, feeling insecure, doubting, being scared, afraid, without the transfigurating force within you and without security that you will not pass and overcome the barrier of Hades/Death/Hell into Heaven after death?

I think it means that you need to come to the realization of who God is, to accept Him and His teachings, to live by His laws (at least make a descent attempt to do so), to search for Him...while alive.

If you die, without any of these....you have lived an empty and shallow life.  You have made no progress in your life....therefore, why would you consider yourself worthy to inherit anything?

Children who misbehave, who leave the family, who go off in a different direction, are often disinherited.

However, remember the parable of the Prodigal Son....the Father RUNS to meet his wayward son.  He doesn't just wait...he runs to meet him...and he doesn't just take him back in to the household....he takes him back as his son.

There is always hope....but, that son needed to turn back and go home, before he died in the pigpen.



I agree 100%.

LizaSymonenko gave an excellent example of the Prodigal Son. 

There is always a time to come back to our Father so that we may be a part of his kingdom.
Logged

I learned how to be more frugal and save money at http://www.livingpress.com
Skydive
Warned
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 430



« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2014, 05:04:05 PM »

I think Elder Arsenie Boca (considered a Saint, one of the greatest contemporary saints, at least in Romania) believed that the kingdom of heaven starts here on earth. In another place he says the state of the soul beyond grave is the continuance of his state while on earth, weather it is life, weather it is death. Does that mean that a person must feel all the positiveness in the world in order to break the barriers of Hades/Hell/Grave? Does that mean that all sad, insecure, skeptical, feeling death(unfulfilled-feeling like missing something) and etc persons will not be able to break the barrier of Hades/Hell in the afterlife? What does it mean to be in life while on earth?
Logged

"I will not attack your doctrines nor your creeds if they accord liberty to me. If they hold thought to be dangerous - if they aver that doubt is a crime, then I attack them one and all, because they enslave the minds of men."

Robert Green Ingersoll
WPM
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,366



« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2014, 05:19:45 PM »

Its definitely a process that we go through ... Spiritual change ..etc
Logged
Skydive
Warned
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 430



« Reply #5 on: March 30, 2014, 05:46:20 PM »

Its definitely a process that we go through ... Spiritual change ..etc

not exactly what i asked
Logged

"I will not attack your doctrines nor your creeds if they accord liberty to me. If they hold thought to be dangerous - if they aver that doubt is a crime, then I attack them one and all, because they enslave the minds of men."

Robert Green Ingersoll
Sinful Hypocrite
Everyday I am critical of others. Every day I make similar mistakes. Every day I am a hypocrite.
OC.net guru
*******
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Orthodox
Jurisdiction: "The Orthodox Church" by Bishop Kallistos Ware: "We know where the Church is but we cannot be sure where it is not; and so we must refrain from passing judgment on non-Orthodox Christians."
Posts: 1,698


Great googly moogly!


« Reply #6 on: March 30, 2014, 07:22:15 PM »

I would say that what you seek is not possible to get from any explanation or example, it is a process similar to what St paul alluded to here,
Acts 20:24
However, I consider my life worth nothing to me; my only aim is to finish the race and complete the task the Lord Jesus has given me--the task of testifying to the good news of God's grace.

It is something we are all seeking, and it is never for us to know the whole mind of God, we must proceed with our tasks in humble service, and to finish the race each with our God given gifts.
Logged

The Lord gathers his sheep, I fear I am a goat. Lord have mercy.

"A Christian is someone who follows and worships a perfectly good God who revealed his true face through the life, death and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth.“
Skydive
Warned
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 430



« Reply #7 on: April 28, 2014, 03:50:31 PM »

bump Smiley
Logged

"I will not attack your doctrines nor your creeds if they accord liberty to me. If they hold thought to be dangerous - if they aver that doubt is a crime, then I attack them one and all, because they enslave the minds of men."

Robert Green Ingersoll
xOrthodox4Christx
Archon
********
Online Online

Faith: Protestant (Inquirer)
Jurisdiction: Orthodox Christianity
Posts: 3,218



« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2014, 04:07:26 PM »

I've heard it said that your relationship with others is a mirror of your relationship with God. So what you experience on earth will prefigure what you will in paradise.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2014, 04:08:17 PM by xOrthodox4Christx » Logged

"Rationalists are admirable beings, rationalism is a hideous monster when it claims for itself omnipotence. Attribution of omnipotence to reason is as bad a piece of idolatry as is worship of stock and stone, believing it to be God." (Mahatma Gandhi)
IoanC
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,378



WWW
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2014, 02:04:26 AM »

Heaven can start here and now. It's a spiritual reality. We don't have to wait. For goodness' sake, don't wait for something so good as heaven! Smiley
« Last Edit: April 29, 2014, 02:05:57 AM by IoanC » Logged

Skydive
Warned
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 430



« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2014, 03:10:45 AM »

What is heaven "here and now" ?
Logged

"I will not attack your doctrines nor your creeds if they accord liberty to me. If they hold thought to be dangerous - if they aver that doubt is a crime, then I attack them one and all, because they enslave the minds of men."

Robert Green Ingersoll
IoanC
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,378



WWW
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2014, 04:52:52 AM »

What is heaven "here and now" ?

Here is the center within your soul which is always the same. Now is the only moment that exists even though the fallen mind perceives time in an ill way (as if it flows).
Logged

Hawkeye
Onomatodoxicologist
High Elder
******
Online Online

Faith: With a schismatic twist.
Jurisdiction: An Old Rite soglasie
Posts: 616


My grandfather, the mad Mike


« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2014, 05:20:41 AM »

What is heaven "here and now" ?

Here is the center within your soul which is always the same. Now is the only moment that exists even though the fallen mind perceives time in an ill way (as if it flows).

Please elaborate.
Logged

IoanC
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,378



WWW
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2014, 06:19:24 AM »

What is heaven "here and now" ?

Here is the center within your soul which is always the same. Now is the only moment that exists even though the fallen mind perceives time in an ill way (as if it flows).

Please elaborate.

I have something on my blog.

As far as "here" there is a reference to the spine as axis mundi:
http://www.loveandmeaning.com/2014/02/the-secret-name.html

Regarding "time":
http://www.loveandmeaning.com/2014/04/the-two-aspects-of-time.html
http://www.loveandmeaning.com/2014/04/time-as-static.html

Logged

Skydive
Warned
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 430



« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2014, 06:23:39 AM »

What is heaven "here and now" ?

Here is the center within your soul which is always the same. Now is the only moment that exists even though the fallen mind perceives time in an ill way (as if it flows).

What is heaven , here and now ?
Logged

"I will not attack your doctrines nor your creeds if they accord liberty to me. If they hold thought to be dangerous - if they aver that doubt is a crime, then I attack them one and all, because they enslave the minds of men."

Robert Green Ingersoll
Hawkeye
Onomatodoxicologist
High Elder
******
Online Online

Faith: With a schismatic twist.
Jurisdiction: An Old Rite soglasie
Posts: 616


My grandfather, the mad Mike


« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2014, 06:27:21 AM »


Having looked them over, I still don't understand what you mean when you say that the perception of time as if it were flowing is an "ill way" of looking at it. Is that view simply of your own musings?
« Last Edit: April 29, 2014, 06:28:09 AM by Hawkeye » Logged

IoanC
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,378



WWW
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2014, 06:50:32 AM »


Having looked them over, I still don't understand what you mean when you say that the perception of time as if it were flowing is an "ill way" of looking at it. Is that view simply of your own musings?

No, it's not just me, but it is also me. Smiley I mean I won't try to convince you; it's best if you yourself agree and understand. Since the fall man lost his connection with the eternal and the permanent and lives on a lower level. He lives according to an objective reality (because of a passionate world-view). He sees life in terms of objects or what can be had and achieved, how much is left and how much is still needed. Whereas God is personal and love; and man and his universe must behave in the same way. In heaven, time is perceived as from the inside of the person to the outside. The person defines time and uses it to its advantage. Whereas in the fallen realm, quite the opposite is true: man is almost used by time and the other elements of his environment dominate him.
Logged

IoanC
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,378



WWW
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2014, 06:51:18 AM »

What is heaven "here and now" ?

Here is the center within your soul which is always the same. Now is the only moment that exists even though the fallen mind perceives time in an ill way (as if it flows).

What is heaven , here and now ?

Oh, no. Heaven is heaven. Yet heaven is a here and now thing.
Logged

Skydive
Warned
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 430



« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2014, 07:02:27 AM »

What is heaven "here and now" ?

Here is the center within your soul which is always the same. Now is the only moment that exists even though the fallen mind perceives time in an ill way (as if it flows).

What is heaven , here and now ?

Oh, no. Heaven is heaven. Yet heaven is a here and now thing.

define : heaven here and now
Logged

"I will not attack your doctrines nor your creeds if they accord liberty to me. If they hold thought to be dangerous - if they aver that doubt is a crime, then I attack them one and all, because they enslave the minds of men."

Robert Green Ingersoll
IoanC
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,378



WWW
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2014, 07:04:42 AM »

What is heaven "here and now" ?

Here is the center within your soul which is always the same. Now is the only moment that exists even though the fallen mind perceives time in an ill way (as if it flows).

What is heaven , here and now ?

Oh, no. Heaven is heaven. Yet heaven is a here and now thing.

define : heaven here and now

Have we just accomplished a perfect circle or is it just me? Smiley I am not sure whatsover what you are asking and whether I stand any chance of answering it.
Logged

Skydive
Warned
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 430



« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2014, 08:05:41 AM »

What is heaven "here and now" ?

Here is the center within your soul which is always the same. Now is the only moment that exists even though the fallen mind perceives time in an ill way (as if it flows).

What is heaven , here and now ?

Oh, no. Heaven is heaven. Yet heaven is a here and now thing.

define : heaven here and now

Have we just accomplished a perfect circle or is it just me? Smiley I am not sure whatsover what you are asking and whether I stand any chance of answering it.

What does it mean from your p.o.v you are coming from to have "heaven here and now" ? e.g: For me it means to have things my way.

Logged

"I will not attack your doctrines nor your creeds if they accord liberty to me. If they hold thought to be dangerous - if they aver that doubt is a crime, then I attack them one and all, because they enslave the minds of men."

Robert Green Ingersoll
Skydive
Warned
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 430



« Reply #21 on: April 29, 2014, 08:06:12 AM »

'coz Heaven is such an eclecticism...
Logged

"I will not attack your doctrines nor your creeds if they accord liberty to me. If they hold thought to be dangerous - if they aver that doubt is a crime, then I attack them one and all, because they enslave the minds of men."

Robert Green Ingersoll
IoanC
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,378



WWW
« Reply #22 on: April 29, 2014, 12:00:25 PM »

What is heaven "here and now" ?

Here is the center within your soul which is always the same. Now is the only moment that exists even though the fallen mind perceives time in an ill way (as if it flows).

What is heaven , here and now ?

Oh, no. Heaven is heaven. Yet heaven is a here and now thing.

define : heaven here and now

Have we just accomplished a perfect circle or is it just me? Smiley I am not sure whatsover what you are asking and whether I stand any chance of answering it.

What does it mean from your p.o.v you are coming from to have "heaven here and now" ? e.g: For me it means to have things my way.



What's wrong with having things your way? Everybody does. Unless there's something wrong with those things, yes...
Logged

Skydive
Warned
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 430



« Reply #23 on: May 01, 2014, 07:11:11 AM »

What is heaven "here and now" ?

Here is the center within your soul which is always the same. Now is the only moment that exists even though the fallen mind perceives time in an ill way (as if it flows).

What is heaven , here and now ?

Oh, no. Heaven is heaven. Yet heaven is a here and now thing.

define : heaven here and now

Have we just accomplished a perfect circle or is it just me? Smiley I am not sure whatsover what you are asking and whether I stand any chance of answering it.

What does it mean from your p.o.v you are coming from to have "heaven here and now" ? e.g: For me it means to have things my way.



What's wrong with having things your way? Everybody does. Unless there's something wrong with those things, yes...

So according to your definition what does it mean for "heaven to start here and now" ?

On another hand I remember romanian elders stressing that "death will judge you in that in which it finds you" . So what does that mean also in the context of what Elder Arsenie Boca is saying? Does it mean that one can know if he will go in the Kingdom of God? What is the norm for that? And more curiously what are the symptoms of one that will not enter into the Kingdom?
Logged

"I will not attack your doctrines nor your creeds if they accord liberty to me. If they hold thought to be dangerous - if they aver that doubt is a crime, then I attack them one and all, because they enslave the minds of men."

Robert Green Ingersoll
IoanC
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,378



WWW
« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2014, 08:15:54 AM »


So according to your definition what does it mean for "heaven to start here and now" ?

On another hand I remember romanian elders stressing that "death will judge you in that in which it finds you" . So what does that mean also in the context of what Elder Arsenie Boca is saying? Does it mean that one can know if he will go in the Kingdom of God? What is the norm for that? And more curiously what are the symptoms of one that will not enter into the Kingdom?

It means to re-orient our lives from the outer to the inner. "The Kingdom of God is within us". We can start living it now. And Fr. Arsenie was saying that if we don't live the inner life now, then we cannot expect to live it in the next because heaven is of a spiritual nature. (His was more of a harsh warning; I tried to put it in a milder light and discern it).
« Last Edit: May 01, 2014, 08:16:43 AM by IoanC » Logged

Skydive
Warned
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 430



« Reply #25 on: May 01, 2014, 10:00:58 AM »


So according to your definition what does it mean for "heaven to start here and now" ?

On another hand I remember romanian elders stressing that "death will judge you in that in which it finds you" . So what does that mean also in the context of what Elder Arsenie Boca is saying? Does it mean that one can know if he will go in the Kingdom of God? What is the norm for that? And more curiously what are the symptoms of one that will not enter into the Kingdom?

It means to re-orient our lives from the outer to the inner. "The Kingdom of God is within us". We can start living it now. And Fr. Arsenie was saying that if we don't live the inner life now, then we cannot expect to live it in the next because heaven is of a spiritual nature. (His was more of a harsh warning; I tried to put it in a milder light and discern it).

What does this Kingdom within entail?
Logged

"I will not attack your doctrines nor your creeds if they accord liberty to me. If they hold thought to be dangerous - if they aver that doubt is a crime, then I attack them one and all, because they enslave the minds of men."

Robert Green Ingersoll
IoanC
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,378



WWW
« Reply #26 on: May 01, 2014, 10:37:30 AM »


So according to your definition what does it mean for "heaven to start here and now" ?

On another hand I remember romanian elders stressing that "death will judge you in that in which it finds you" . So what does that mean also in the context of what Elder Arsenie Boca is saying? Does it mean that one can know if he will go in the Kingdom of God? What is the norm for that? And more curiously what are the symptoms of one that will not enter into the Kingdom?

It means to re-orient our lives from the outer to the inner. "The Kingdom of God is within us". We can start living it now. And Fr. Arsenie was saying that if we don't live the inner life now, then we cannot expect to live it in the next because heaven is of a spiritual nature. (His was more of a harsh warning; I tried to put it in a milder light and discern it).

What does this Kingdom within entail?

That's for everybody to figure out. Talking and reading can only go so far.
Logged

Skydive
Warned
Elder
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 430



« Reply #27 on: May 01, 2014, 06:04:22 PM »


So according to your definition what does it mean for "heaven to start here and now" ?

On another hand I remember romanian elders stressing that "death will judge you in that in which it finds you" . So what does that mean also in the context of what Elder Arsenie Boca is saying? Does it mean that one can know if he will go in the Kingdom of God? What is the norm for that? And more curiously what are the symptoms of one that will not enter into the Kingdom?


It means to re-orient our lives from the outer to the inner. "The Kingdom of God is within us". We can start living it now. And Fr. Arsenie was saying that if we don't live the inner life now, then we cannot expect to live it in the next because heaven is of a spiritual nature. (His was more of a harsh warning; I tried to put it in a milder light and discern it).

What does this Kingdom within entail?

That's for everybody to figure out. Talking and reading can only go so far.

nOObs will be nOObs..

Logged

"I will not attack your doctrines nor your creeds if they accord liberty to me. If they hold thought to be dangerous - if they aver that doubt is a crime, then I attack them one and all, because they enslave the minds of men."

Robert Green Ingersoll
IoanC
Archon
********
Offline Offline

Posts: 2,378



WWW
« Reply #28 on: May 02, 2014, 01:17:59 AM »




nOObs will be nOObs..



 Smiley Smiley Smiley
« Last Edit: May 02, 2014, 01:18:26 AM by IoanC » Logged

Tags:
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.11 seconds with 56 queries.