OrthodoxChristianity.net
July 26, 2014, 11:17:45 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: Reminder: No political discussions in the public fora.  If you do not have access to the private Politics Forum, please send a PM to Fr. George.
 
   Home   Help Calendar Contact Treasury Tags Login Register  
Pages: 1   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: The Great Horologion?  (Read 325 times) Average Rating: 0
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
kzofm
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 19


« on: March 27, 2014, 07:05:55 AM »

Hello Everyone,

I am in a bit of a situation, and I would like to have some information on the Great Horologion. I figured here would be the best place to ask.

In my previous post, I mentioned that I live in a place where I do not have access to a church. Members of the fourm have advised me to to "Reader Services". The also provided me with links to all resourves that I would need (online).

Now I do appreciate having this information, but I am thinking of getting a book which contains these services (Typica I believe?). I will use the internet for now, BUT I would prefer getting a book in the near future.

With that said, which book is a good one (in English) to get? I would like to have something complete, with all prayers, days, etc, etc in one. My research has lead me to "The Great Horologion" by Holy Transfiguration Monastery. Is this book a good one to have for reading when you do not have access to a church?

This book seems complete, but I have no Idea if it is what I need, also I do not mind if it has alot of additional things in it, as long as it has what I need. Could you all advise on this book? Or Maybe suggest a better one?

Also should I use it with a psalter as well, or Is it good enough by itself with no psalter?  Or am I taking a wrong approach to everything?

Please Advise,
Thank you!
« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 07:06:24 AM by kzofm » Logged
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Online Online

Posts: 15,313


In solidarity with Iraqi and Syrian Nazarenes


WWW
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2014, 10:12:35 AM »

Also should I use it with a psalter as well, or Is it good enough by itself with no psalter?  Or am I taking a wrong approach to everything?

I'm not sure what you mean by "wrong approach", so some thoughts before you clarify that.   

I sympathise with the desire to have a book rather than use things printed from the internet: I have the same "problem".  The HTM Horologion is pretty big, and I'm not sure if it's still in print, but when it was, it was over $100.  Jordanville publishes a Horologion that is still in print and in the $40 range.  I think it lacks some features of the HTM, but nothing that would seriously impede you.

What you need to figure out is what services you will do and how often.  If you are planning on doing Typika and maybe the Third and Sixth Hours on Sunday mornings and that's it, buying a complete Horologion might be overkill.  St Tikhon's Seminary publishes a small booklet with the text of the Hours and Typika, and that would be sufficient.  But the Midnight Office, the 1st, 3rd, 6th, 9th Hours, Typika, and Compline can be done fairly easily every day: if that's what you have in mind, I would buy a Horologion.  If you want to eventually incorporate Vespers and Matins into your observance, even in some abridged form, I would buy a Horologion.  I would spend that kind of money for something used daily or often, but not for something used once a week.

Regarding the Psalter, it will not be necessary for the daily services except for Vespers and Matins (even then, they are routinely abbreviated or omitted).  If you are planning on praying these as reader's services, I would buy a Psalter.  But I like the Psalms and so I would recommend buying a Psalter anyway and reading from it even if not doing these services.  In a pinch, your Bible will be sufficient.   
Logged

Apolytikion, Tone 1, by Antonis

An eloquent crafter of divine posts
And an inheritor of the line of the Baptist
A righteous son of India
And a new apostle to the internet
O Holy Mor Ephrem,
Intercede for us, that our forum may be saved.


"Mor is a jerk." - kelly
kzofm
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 19


« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2014, 10:53:48 AM »

Mor Ephrem,

Thank you for replying! What I meant by the "wrong approach" is that I was not entirely sure of what the book contains, so It confused me.

You post has helped me to understand things a little better. I do not know if the Great Horologion is out of print, but I saw it available on some websites. (I have no idea if it really is). I will also check Jordanville Horologion you mentioned.

Well, for the services, I intend to start out with the Typica and Third and sixth hours, etc, etc, that is for now. In the future, if time allows I might consider doing the other offices you mentioned, and maybe even vespers and matins, BUT as I said this might be in the future if time allows it. Basically I would not mind buying a Horologion. There is one thing that worries me about the Horologion though, which is: My research of Doing Matins as Vespers, indicates that I would need access to alot of other books like Menaion, Octoechos, Triodion, etc, etc. Is this true?

Anyway, future stuff aside. Now I will definitely start With the typica, and a few other hours (on Sunday). My understanding is that for now all I need is a Horologion and a Psalter? Am I correct?
« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 10:55:45 AM by kzofm » Logged
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Online Online

Posts: 15,313


In solidarity with Iraqi and Syrian Nazarenes


WWW
« Reply #3 on: March 27, 2014, 11:05:54 AM »

Well, for the services, I intend to start out with the Typica and Third and sixth hours, etc, etc, that is for now. In the future, if time allows I might consider doing the other offices you mentioned, and maybe even vespers and matins, BUT as I said this might be in the future if time allows it. Basically I would not mind buying a Horologion.

Far be it from me to discourage book-buying!

Both editions I discussed above use "traditional" English.  I'm not sure if there are any other Horologia in print which use contemporary English.  Maybe someone else knows more.

Quote
There is one thing that worries me about the Horologion though, which is: My research of Doing Matins as Vespers, indicates that I would need access to alot of other books like Menaion, Octoechos, Triodion, etc, etc. Is this true?

In principle, yes.  And if you can afford it, I would buy the books, but this may be more difficult because of the cost.  Here, the internet is your friend.  In America, the OCA and the Antiochians publish the variable texts in advance for Sundays and feasts, so you could just plug those in at the appropriate places.  There are more resources available at other sites, probably enough to do these services daily.  But if your heart is set on buying books, I hope you've got a lot of money.  If you do, please remember me.  Wink 

Quote
Anyway, future stuff aside. Now I will definitely start With the typica, and a few other hours (on Sunday). My understanding is that for now all I need is a Horologion and a Psalter? Am I correct?

Basically, yes.
Logged

Apolytikion, Tone 1, by Antonis

An eloquent crafter of divine posts
And an inheritor of the line of the Baptist
A righteous son of India
And a new apostle to the internet
O Holy Mor Ephrem,
Intercede for us, that our forum may be saved.


"Mor is a jerk." - kelly
kzofm
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 19


« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2014, 12:20:28 PM »

Thank you again. I would prefer to have the books, although they are not something I can buy overnight. Hopefully I could get them over time, but for now I guess I could start with a Horologion and a psalter.

Logged
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Online Online

Posts: 15,313


In solidarity with Iraqi and Syrian Nazarenes


WWW
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2014, 01:01:17 PM »

Thank you again. I would prefer to have the books...

I like you. 
Logged

Apolytikion, Tone 1, by Antonis

An eloquent crafter of divine posts
And an inheritor of the line of the Baptist
A righteous son of India
And a new apostle to the internet
O Holy Mor Ephrem,
Intercede for us, that our forum may be saved.


"Mor is a jerk." - kelly
scamandrius
Crusher of Secrets; House Lannister
Warned
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Greek Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Greek by desire; Antiochian by necessity
Posts: 5,812



« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2014, 02:26:13 PM »

I own a copy of the Great Horologion and I love it.  I find it absolutely indispensable.  It has all the hours, the typica, the apolytikia for each day, descriptions of feasts and saints on the liturgical calendar, akathists, the eclogarion, prayers before and after communion, a few canons.  It is not inexpensive--$125 about.  Still, an investment worth having.

The psalter will be useful if you say the appointed kathismata during vespers and Orthros outside of lent or say the kathismata with the Lenten hours.  Or you can say the kathismata as you wish.  There is a pocket psalter also published by HTM and it is around $25.

To really do readers services, you are going to need the Menaion which contains the principal hymns and canon for each days saint and/or feast.  That is a huge expense, over $1000.  And during the Lenten season, you need a Triodion and for the Paschal season, the Pentecostarion, which is out of print.  You can procure a Lenten Triodion for around $30 published by St. Tikhons press.

I don't say this to frustrate you, but you can always start small and build up from there include you're able to get access to more material.
Logged

I seek the truth by which no man was ever harmed--Marcus Aurelius

Those who do not read  history are doomed to get their facts from Hollywood--Anonymous

What earthly joy remains untouched by grief?--St. John Damascene
Shanghaiski
Taxiarches
**********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox Christian
Jurisdiction: Antiochian
Posts: 7,964


Holy Trinity Church of Gergeti, Georgia


« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2014, 04:58:34 PM »

Doing "the services" at home is a big job for one person. For most mortals, it is enough to simply pray consistently what prayers we can--the Trisagion, some Psalms, some prayers from the prayerbook, maybe a canon or akathist, maybe some other hymns.
Logged

Quote from: GabrieltheCelt
If you spend long enough on this forum, you'll come away with all sorts of weird, untrue ideas of Orthodox Christianity.
Quote from: orthonorm
I would suggest most persons in general avoid any question beginning with why.
LBK
Merarches
***********
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 10,169


Holy Father Patrick, pray for us!


« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2014, 06:01:47 PM »

Doing "the services" at home is a big job for one person. For most mortals, it is enough to simply pray consistently what prayers we can--the Trisagion, some Psalms, some prayers from the prayerbook, maybe a canon or akathist, maybe some other hymns.

Seconded. As someone who is called upon to compile full services, the most difficult ones to get right are those of lower, "ordinary" rank. The variations do require access to a full liturgical library.

I commend kzofm's enthusiasm, but his wish to "do everything" could easily lead to burnout. I concur with those who have suggested praying from a comprehensive prayerbook like the Jordanville. In my experience, the set morning, day and evening prayers in it are more than enough to keep a layman out of mischief.
Logged
Mor Ephrem
"Mor is right, you are wrong."
Section Moderator
Hoplitarches
*****
Online Online

Posts: 15,313


In solidarity with Iraqi and Syrian Nazarenes


WWW
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2014, 06:08:06 PM »

I commend kzofm's enthusiasm, but his wish to "do everything" could easily lead to burnout. I concur with those who have suggested praying from a comprehensive prayerbook like the Jordanville. In my experience, the set morning, day and evening prayers in it are more than enough to keep a layman out of mischief.

But he's asking for a very particular reason.  It's not hyperconvertosis. 
Logged

Apolytikion, Tone 1, by Antonis

An eloquent crafter of divine posts
And an inheritor of the line of the Baptist
A righteous son of India
And a new apostle to the internet
O Holy Mor Ephrem,
Intercede for us, that our forum may be saved.


"Mor is a jerk." - kelly
kzofm
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Faith: Orthodox
Posts: 19


« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2014, 07:04:17 AM »

Thank you everyone for all the information. I did not have time to reply before. I now understand that alot of books will be needed to do full reader services, but I guess that I could start off with 2 for now (A psalter and a horologion), and eventually get more as someone mentioned.

Thank you again!
Logged
Tags: reader services book great horologion 
Pages: 1   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.18 | SMF © 2013, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.059 seconds with 37 queries.