Author Topic: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco  (Read 6420 times)

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Offline Kerdy

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #45 on: March 27, 2014, 04:17:10 AM »
I have no issues with a few cigars or picking up the briar as a hobby, I indulge in both myself, but I avoid dip for several reasons.  Of the tobacco products, it's the most dangerous, but a dip on occasion is fine.  An addictive habit which is the norm is bad.  

And mint?  *vomit*
« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 04:17:58 AM by Kerdy »

Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #46 on: March 27, 2014, 05:53:58 AM »
I read them all, and while being helpful, they were still vague. They virtually all point out that there's a correlation between smokeless tobacco and cancer, but neither of them have explained HOW strong this risk or correlation is. Nowadays it seems like even drinking water causes cancer.

I hope this helps:

  • Besides lung cancer, tobacco use also increases the risk for cancers of the mouth, lips, nose and sinuses, larynx (voice box), pharynx (throat), esophagus (swallowing tube), stomach, pancreas, kidney, bladder, uterus, cervix, colon/rectum, ovary (mucinous), and acute myeloid leukemia. (Source: Cancer Facts & Figures 2014)
  • In the United States, tobacco use is responsible for nearly 1 in 5 deaths; this equals about 480,000 early deaths each year. (Source: Cancer Facts & Figures 2014; and US Surgeon General Report 2014)
  • Tobacco use accounts for at least 30% of all cancer deaths, causing 87% of lung cancer deaths in men, and 70% of lung cancer deaths in women. (Source: Cancer Facts & Figures 2014)


This is about tobacco use in general. James asked for facts on smokeless tobacco in specific.

You are correct. I'm afraid I veered this thread when I alluded to my pipe avocation to lend credence to my advice to NOT use smokeless tobacco (who really wants advice from a non-tobacco user or enemy anyway?).
« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 05:54:25 AM by Αριστοκλής »
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Offline hecma925

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #47 on: March 27, 2014, 01:45:20 PM »
I've used tobacco.  I favor pipe smoking or a good cigar on occasion.  I used to do the smokeless stuff in college and it helped keep me awake when I needed it.  I've tried snuff, longcut, plugs, chew, and snus.  Out of all of them, I like the taste of natural chew and the convenience of snus (I use these on rare occasion).  Flavored stuff always made me gag.  Mint is for candy and gum; not tobacco.

Anyway, tobacco is something I enjoy every now and then.  I've never felt addicted to it at any time.  It's not the healthiest thing to do, if you had paid attention to middle/high school health class, you would know that; but there are plenty of worse things for your health that can kill you, such as not exercising, getting fat, and eating poorly (which can be just as addicting). 

If you do choose to use it every day, be scrupulous about your oral health.  Keep your teeth and gums clean.  The first hint of redness, swelling, or pain (one reason I stopped with the longcut/snuff), stop.  Take a break.  If symptoms persist, see a dentist/physician. 

You're an adult with access to the internet.  The information and studies are there for your perusal.
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #48 on: March 27, 2014, 02:04:21 PM »
I read them all, and while being helpful, they were still vague. They virtually all point out that there's a correlation between smokeless tobacco and cancer, but neither of them have explained HOW strong this risk or correlation is. Nowadays it seems like even drinking water causes cancer.

I hope this helps:

  • Besides lung cancer, tobacco use also increases the risk for cancers of the mouth, lips, nose and sinuses, larynx (voice box), pharynx (throat), esophagus (swallowing tube), stomach, pancreas, kidney, bladder, uterus, cervix, colon/rectum, ovary (mucinous), and acute myeloid leukemia. (Source: Cancer Facts & Figures 2014)
  • In the United States, tobacco use is responsible for nearly 1 in 5 deaths; this equals about 480,000 early deaths each year. (Source: Cancer Facts & Figures 2014; and US Surgeon General Report 2014)
  • Tobacco use accounts for at least 30% of all cancer deaths, causing 87% of lung cancer deaths in men, and 70% of lung cancer deaths in women. (Source: Cancer Facts & Figures 2014)


This is about tobacco use in general. James asked for facts on smokeless tobacco in specific.

You are correct. I'm afraid I veered this thread when I alluded to my pipe avocation to lend credence to my advice to NOT use smokeless tobacco (who really wants advice from a non-tobacco user or enemy anyway?).
You give yourself too much credit. ;) The truth be told, I enjoy smoking a cigar or pipe on occasion, but I won't touch cigarettes or smokeless tobacco.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 02:05:41 PM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline Jonathan Gress

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #49 on: March 27, 2014, 02:46:50 PM »
Yeah, if it's a daily habit you're starting to look at significant health risks, but if you keep it to special occasions, and you genuinely enjoy the flavor of the smoke, then I don't see that it's such a big deal, at least no bigger then enjoying a occasional double bacon cheeseburger or a similar heart-attack-on-a-plate.

Think of it as a special treat. If you start to think of it as self-medication (I need to smoke to calm my nerves, concentrate etc) then you're likely to find yourself self-medicating more often and putting yourself in more serious danger. If you really need something on a regular basis to calm anxiety or relieve pain, talk to your doctor and get something less lethal.

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Offline Alpo

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #50 on: March 27, 2014, 02:51:22 PM »
You're an adult

NOOOOOoooooooooooo!!!!!!!11



Teenagers are not adults. Not by a long shot.

As for the smokeless tobacco, I'd go with Swedish snus. Everything else is heretical. With moderation of course. You could try avoiding the habit during lenten seasons.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 02:57:02 PM by Alpo »
I just need to find out how to say it in Slavonic!

Offline hecma925

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #51 on: March 27, 2014, 03:05:41 PM »
You're an adult

NOOOOOoooooooooooo!!!!!!!11



Teenagers are not adults. Not by a long shot.

As for the smokeless tobacco, I'd go with Swedish snus. Everything else is heretical. With moderation of course. You could try avoiding the habit during lenten seasons.

LOL!  But really, people need to stop treating legal adults (even if they're 18 or 19) as kids.  They'll continue to act as children if society thinks it's ok.  And, yes, Swedish snus is the standard, even if Camel came out with a "kid" version.
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Offline Alpo

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #52 on: March 27, 2014, 03:09:22 PM »
LOL!  But really, people need to stop treating legal adults (even if they're 18 or 19) as kids.

They are kids. It's just that compared to Americans I might have a little more harsher ideas how kids ought to raised. :angel:
I just need to find out how to say it in Slavonic!

Offline orthonorm

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #53 on: March 27, 2014, 03:22:02 PM »
You're an adult

NOOOOOoooooooooooo!!!!!!!11



Teenagers are not adults. Not by a long shot.

As for the smokeless tobacco, I'd go with Swedish snus. Everything else is heretical. With moderation of course. You could try avoiding the habit during lenten seasons.

See my suggestion above.

LBK doesn't know what that is and and not knowing manages to believes it poses the same risks as smoking or other forms of oral tobacco. I am not sure how you can't be moderate with snus. It is moderate by design. Nothing like full plug.

Wonder if she is aware of the use of snus as a method of risk reduction in smokers.

I dubbed it the proletariat patch.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 03:22:22 PM by orthonorm »

Offline Alpo

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #54 on: March 27, 2014, 03:43:49 PM »
I am not sure how you can't be moderate with snus.

Using several dosages of snus while simultaneously smoking a cigarrette seems rather unmoderate to me. I've heard of someone who did that. Not sure if it was an urban legend but wouldn't be anyhow suprised if the story was true.
I just need to find out how to say it in Slavonic!

Offline Yurysprudentsiya

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #55 on: March 27, 2014, 03:46:20 PM »
You're an adult

NOOOOOoooooooooooo!!!!!!!11



Teenagers are not adults. Not by a long shot.

As for the smokeless tobacco, I'd go with Swedish snus. Everything else is heretical. With moderation of course. You could try avoiding the habit during lenten seasons.

We all have enough bad habits that have accrued to us over a lifetime. 

If one intentionally seeks to cultivate a habit, it ought to be prayer.

Offline hecma925

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #56 on: March 27, 2014, 03:47:46 PM »
I am not sure how you can't be moderate with snus.

Using several dosages of snus while simultaneously smoking a cigarrette seems rather unmoderate to me. I've heard of someone who did that. Not sure if it was an urban legend but wouldn't be anyhow suprised if the story was true.

I knew a few guys in college who did that, but with longcut dip.  That's some serious nicotine overkill.  They just needed a nicotine patch for the trifecta.
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Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #57 on: March 27, 2014, 03:53:13 PM »
Despite everyone discussing habit vs non habit etc...

Honestly James, considering you have an uncle with cancer, if I were in your shoes I would steer very clear of as many of the cancer causing things as is possible.

Even if there is a trigger, the 'likelyhood' of aquiring a cancer is genetic.  'Not all people have these dire consequences', which is true, but the odds increase if you have the genetic pre-disposition.


I personally just wouldn't take the risk over something that is not -doing- anything for my life in a positive way.
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Offline Maria

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #58 on: March 27, 2014, 03:54:11 PM »
Despite everyone discussing habit vs non habit etc...

Honestly James, considering you have an uncle with cancer, if I were in your shoes I would steer very clear of as many of the cancer causing things as is possible.

Even if there is a trigger, the 'likelyhood' of aquiring a cancer is genetic.  'Not all people have these dire consequences', which is true, but the odds increase if you have the genetic pre-disposition.


I personally just wouldn't take the risk over something that is not -doing- anything for my life in a positive way.

I agree with Denise!
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline orthonorm

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #59 on: March 27, 2014, 05:23:38 PM »
I am not sure how you can't be moderate with snus.

Using several dosages of snus while simultaneously smoking a cigarrette seems rather unmoderate to me. I've heard of someone who did that. Not sure if it was an urban legend but wouldn't be anyhow suprised if the story was true.

I knew a few guys in college who did that, but with longcut dip.  That's some serious nicotine overkill.  They just needed a nicotine patch for the trifecta.

That's folks with a high nicotine tolerance, which is set genetically primarily it seems. So some people can moderately use nicotine. I can't. It will stir up my need for nicotine. With dip / smoking, people will dose to get their fix. Which is why cigarettes with greater nicotine levels will hook you sooner, if you are hooked they are better for you, since you will smoke less to get your fix.

My brother tried using short cut dip to stop smoking and wound up doing both.

But yeah, if I were to smoke regular cigarettes, I could go a couple packs a day easily. With heavier cigarettes, I got by on fewer than 8 a day. Sometimes less. At which point, the dangers of smoking become difficult to determine save for those with underlying heart issue for whom any repeated increase in heart rate outside moderate physical activity is likely to be a bad thing.

My mother died like PtA's father did. But it wasn't smoking that killed her at 39. Based on my own problem and genetic makeup and other biometrics she was going to have a heart attack early in life. Maybe smoking reduce that life by some years. But it wasn't like she was going to reach 90 or even 60 if she hadn't.

Uncured tobacco is associated with higher risks of stuff like pancreatic cancer, since you swallow the juice rather than spitting it out, but such cancer is already so rare that the increase is, well, no big deal. Again, some have advocated its use as risk reduction much like the patch (which is not without risk, it still creates cardiac stimulus which isn't so great for some).

Being a shrill and uninformed nay sayer is going to do nothing to stop a young person from using tobacco. It that worked, none would use it. Make it illegal, cost prohibitive, or take my route, show nuance and tolerance. Helps abate that knee jerk reaction. And if you quite before 30, really it becomes difficult to determine harm. Not what people want to say, but a lot of people can pick up and put down smoking. Just like heavy drinking. Others can't. I would look at family history rather medical facts.

So if JamesR wants to play with tobacco and is worried about health concerns, I would suggest avoiding it, but if he wants real data, I would look toward those who use tobacco in my near family. If they are strung out and always quitting till they die, I would avoid it. But I also wouldn't make it such an all or nothing dire situation. If you believe this is a one time decision, when you might want to quit, you might really believe the nonsense, and think it is pointless to try.

I've seen that pattern in AA where they condition people in meeting over and over about not being able to have a single drink or two without utter and complete relapse. This speaks against nearly all literature on the subject and given the fact that most in AA are not alcoholics anymore but people badgered by their spouses and the courts to stop irresponsible drinking, they might have a drink and then *bam* they are off to the races, cause that is what that drinks means.

It doesn't.

So James, I would suggest not picking up tobacco but if you do, there are a variety of way to use which have varying risks and benefits.

More so, I think JamesR is mature enough to digest all this and make the appropriate decision.

Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #60 on: March 27, 2014, 05:26:56 PM »
and thus declareth Orthonorm.  Let us heed the font of all wisdom.
All opinions expressed by myself are quite tragically my own, and not those of any other poster or wall hangings.

Offline orthonorm

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #61 on: March 27, 2014, 05:27:09 PM »
Despite everyone discussing habit vs non habit etc...

Honestly James, considering you have an uncle with cancer, if I were in your shoes I would steer very clear of as many of the cancer causing things as is possible.

Even if there is a trigger, the 'likelyhood' of aquiring a cancer is genetic.  'Not all people have these dire consequences', which is true, but the odds increase if you have the genetic pre-disposition.


I personally just wouldn't take the risk over something that is not -doing- anything for my life in a positive way.

Stress reduction is arguably the best thing you can do. So maybe nicotine solves all stress for you. Who knows. What I do know, is that stress is the number killer. If not the only killer. So pick your stressors carefully. God knows I haven't.

Some smoke.
Some post their ideas about icons on the internet with grandiosity and self-righteousness to get their kick.

Not sure which is worse.

Offline orthonorm

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #62 on: March 27, 2014, 05:28:31 PM »
and thus declareth Orthonorm.  Let us heed the font of all wisdom.

You are a late comer and don't know this subject has been done to death. Not of all wisdom, but more than what flows around here usually.

So go back through the various tobacco threads and get caught up and come back.

Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #63 on: March 27, 2014, 05:31:21 PM »
and thus declareth Orthonorm.  Let us heed the font of all wisdom.

You are a late comer and don't know this subject has been done to death. Not of all wisdom, but more than what flows around here usually.

So go back through the various tobacco threads and get caught up and come back.


By that logic, no one should ever start a thread on any topic that has ever been discussed. 

How's that working out?

Forums and message boards have repeat threads.....people come and go...and the same topics come up.  If you have an issue with it...take it up with your boy....he started a new thread on it....when -clearly- its been discussed to death. 


All opinions expressed by myself are quite tragically my own, and not those of any other poster or wall hangings.

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #64 on: March 27, 2014, 05:38:18 PM »
and thus declareth Orthonorm.  Let us heed the font of all wisdom.

You are a late comer and don't know this subject has been done to death. Not of all wisdom, but more than what flows around here usually.
Usually what flows around here is your conceit and arrogance.
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline orthonorm

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #65 on: March 27, 2014, 08:34:23 PM »
and thus declareth Orthonorm.  Let us heed the font of all wisdom.

You are a late comer and don't know this subject has been done to death. Not of all wisdom, but more than what flows around here usually.
Usually what flows around here is your conceit and arrogance.

More interesting is your jealousy of my beloved status here. PtA, one day, a young man will take a shine to you. You just gotta be a bit more open and honest about your life.

Offline Theophania

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #66 on: March 27, 2014, 08:39:39 PM »
Despite everyone discussing habit vs non habit etc...

Honestly James, considering you have an uncle with cancer, if I were in your shoes I would steer very clear of as many of the cancer causing things as is possible.

Even if there is a trigger, the 'likelyhood' of aquiring a cancer is genetic.  'Not all people have these dire consequences', which is true, but the odds increase if you have the genetic pre-disposition.


I personally just wouldn't take the risk over something that is not -doing- anything for my life in a positive way.

A very immature boy is trying to be manly. If he wants to chew chaw and hock into a spittoon, I say let him. I don't know why anyone bothers giving James advice anymore, he never listens.
It's common knowledge that you secretly want to be born in early 17th century Russia.  As a serf or a royal, I know not.  Chances are serf.

Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #67 on: March 27, 2014, 08:43:40 PM »
Despite everyone discussing habit vs non habit etc...

Honestly James, considering you have an uncle with cancer, if I were in your shoes I would steer very clear of as many of the cancer causing things as is possible.

Even if there is a trigger, the 'likelyhood' of aquiring a cancer is genetic.  'Not all people have these dire consequences', which is true, but the odds increase if you have the genetic pre-disposition.


I personally just wouldn't take the risk over something that is not -doing- anything for my life in a positive way.

A very immature boy is trying to be manly. If he wants to chew chaw and hock into a spittoon, I say let him. I don't know why anyone bothers giving James advice anymore, he never listens.


A very good point...just so long as the spittoon isn't a clear orange juice bottle and he isn't the one next to me in the airplane. ::)

(yes...I have had that happen....grossest 6 hours of my life)
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Offline Theophania

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #68 on: March 27, 2014, 08:47:12 PM »
We used to have a neighbor who would walk around our yard, shirtless, spitting his chaw  - it killed our grass!
It's common knowledge that you secretly want to be born in early 17th century Russia.  As a serf or a royal, I know not.  Chances are serf.

Offline LBK

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #69 on: March 27, 2014, 09:33:53 PM »
Despite everyone discussing habit vs non habit etc...

Honestly James, considering you have an uncle with cancer, if I were in your shoes I would steer very clear of as many of the cancer causing things as is possible.

Even if there is a trigger, the 'likelyhood' of aquiring a cancer is genetic.  'Not all people have these dire consequences', which is true, but the odds increase if you have the genetic pre-disposition.


I personally just wouldn't take the risk over something that is not -doing- anything for my life in a positive way.

A very immature boy is trying to be manly. If he wants to chew chaw and hock into a spittoon, I say let him. I don't know why anyone bothers giving James advice anymore, he never listens.


Kelly, THANK YOU!!  :-*
« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 09:34:15 PM by LBK »
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline LBK

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #70 on: March 27, 2014, 09:36:20 PM »
and thus declareth Orthonorm.  Let us heed the font of all wisdom.

You are a late comer and don't know this subject has been done to death. Not of all wisdom, but more than what flows around here usually.
Usually what flows around here is your conceit and arrogance.

More interesting is your jealousy of my beloved status here. PtA, one day, a young man will take a shine to you. You just gotta be a bit more open and honest about your life.

Yet again, orthonorm's hubris and puffery is on display. Grow up, orthonorm, and stop dragging down impressionable youngsters. You are not the center of the universe.
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #71 on: March 27, 2014, 10:04:35 PM »
and thus declareth Orthonorm.  Let us heed the font of all wisdom.

You are a late comer and don't know this subject has been done to death. Not of all wisdom, but more than what flows around here usually.
Usually what flows around here is your conceit and arrogance.

More interesting is your jealousy of my beloved status here.
You give me nothing of which to be jealous, orthonorm.

PtA, one day, a young man will take a shine to you. You just gotta be a bit more open and honest about your life.
I don't want to be a mentor to someone I don't know.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 10:05:39 PM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline JamesR

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #72 on: March 27, 2014, 10:13:56 PM »
I am not sure how you can't be moderate with snus.

Using several dosages of snus while simultaneously smoking a cigarrette seems rather unmoderate to me. I've heard of someone who did that. Not sure if it was an urban legend but wouldn't be anyhow suprised if the story was true.

I knew a few guys in college who did that, but with longcut dip.  That's some serious nicotine overkill.  They just needed a nicotine patch for the trifecta.

That's folks with a high nicotine tolerance, which is set genetically primarily it seems. So some people can moderately use nicotine. I can't. It will stir up my need for nicotine. With dip / smoking, people will dose to get their fix. Which is why cigarettes with greater nicotine levels will hook you sooner, if you are hooked they are better for you, since you will smoke less to get your fix.

My brother tried using short cut dip to stop smoking and wound up doing both.

But yeah, if I were to smoke regular cigarettes, I could go a couple packs a day easily. With heavier cigarettes, I got by on fewer than 8 a day. Sometimes less. At which point, the dangers of smoking become difficult to determine save for those with underlying heart issue for whom any repeated increase in heart rate outside moderate physical activity is likely to be a bad thing.

My mother died like PtA's father did. But it wasn't smoking that killed her at 39. Based on my own problem and genetic makeup and other biometrics she was going to have a heart attack early in life. Maybe smoking reduce that life by some years. But it wasn't like she was going to reach 90 or even 60 if she hadn't.

Uncured tobacco is associated with higher risks of stuff like pancreatic cancer, since you swallow the juice rather than spitting it out, but such cancer is already so rare that the increase is, well, no big deal. Again, some have advocated its use as risk reduction much like the patch (which is not without risk, it still creates cardiac stimulus which isn't so great for some).

Being a shrill and uninformed nay sayer is going to do nothing to stop a young person from using tobacco. It that worked, none would use it. Make it illegal, cost prohibitive, or take my route, show nuance and tolerance. Helps abate that knee jerk reaction. And if you quite before 30, really it becomes difficult to determine harm. Not what people want to say, but a lot of people can pick up and put down smoking. Just like heavy drinking. Others can't. I would look at family history rather medical facts.

So if JamesR wants to play with tobacco and is worried about health concerns, I would suggest avoiding it, but if he wants real data, I would look toward those who use tobacco in my near family. If they are strung out and always quitting till they die, I would avoid it. But I also wouldn't make it such an all or nothing dire situation. If you believe this is a one time decision, when you might want to quit, you might really believe the nonsense, and think it is pointless to try.

I've seen that pattern in AA where they condition people in meeting over and over about not being able to have a single drink or two without utter and complete relapse. This speaks against nearly all literature on the subject and given the fact that most in AA are not alcoholics anymore but people badgered by their spouses and the courts to stop irresponsible drinking, they might have a drink and then *bam* they are off to the races, cause that is what that drinks means.

It doesn't.

So James, I would suggest not picking up tobacco but if you do, there are a variety of way to use which have varying risks and benefits.

More so, I think JamesR is mature enough to digest all this and make the appropriate decision.

Why thank you Jason.

Well, looking at my family history in regards to tobacco usage and my own health right now, taking into account the potential risks, I think that I'll merely use tobacco in moderation--perhaps a tin can every few weeks to a month, sometimes more, sometimes less. If I start seeing any negative signs, I'll cut back or quit. That being said though, I do have some addictive tendencies that I think I should be very cautious about when delving into a potentially addictive product.

My questions have been answered.

Offline LBK

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #73 on: March 27, 2014, 11:15:34 PM »
We used to have a neighbor who would walk around our yard, shirtless, spitting his chaw  - it killed our grass!

Was it soft and fluffy lawn, or the tough, runner-based stuff like buffalo or kikuyu? If the latter .... ewwww.
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Offline Maria

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #74 on: March 28, 2014, 01:18:19 AM »
I am not sure how you can't be moderate with snus.

Using several dosages of snus while simultaneously smoking a cigarrette seems rather unmoderate to me. I've heard of someone who did that. Not sure if it was an urban legend but wouldn't be anyhow suprised if the story was true.

I knew a few guys in college who did that, but with longcut dip.  That's some serious nicotine overkill.  They just needed a nicotine patch for the trifecta.

That's folks with a high nicotine tolerance, which is set genetically primarily it seems. So some people can moderately use nicotine. I can't. It will stir up my need for nicotine. With dip / smoking, people will dose to get their fix. Which is why cigarettes with greater nicotine levels will hook you sooner, if you are hooked they are better for you, since you will smoke less to get your fix.

My brother tried using short cut dip to stop smoking and wound up doing both.

But yeah, if I were to smoke regular cigarettes, I could go a couple packs a day easily. With heavier cigarettes, I got by on fewer than 8 a day. Sometimes less. At which point, the dangers of smoking become difficult to determine save for those with underlying heart issue for whom any repeated increase in heart rate outside moderate physical activity is likely to be a bad thing.

My mother died like PtA's father did. But it wasn't smoking that killed her at 39. Based on my own problem and genetic makeup and other biometrics she was going to have a heart attack early in life. Maybe smoking reduce that life by some years. But it wasn't like she was going to reach 90 or even 60 if she hadn't.

Uncured tobacco is associated with higher risks of stuff like pancreatic cancer, since you swallow the juice rather than spitting it out, but such cancer is already so rare that the increase is, well, no big deal. Again, some have advocated its use as risk reduction much like the patch (which is not without risk, it still creates cardiac stimulus which isn't so great for some).

Being a shrill and uninformed nay sayer is going to do nothing to stop a young person from using tobacco. It that worked, none would use it. Make it illegal, cost prohibitive, or take my route, show nuance and tolerance. Helps abate that knee jerk reaction. And if you quite before 30, really it becomes difficult to determine harm. Not what people want to say, but a lot of people can pick up and put down smoking. Just like heavy drinking. Others can't. I would look at family history rather medical facts.

So if JamesR wants to play with tobacco and is worried about health concerns, I would suggest avoiding it, but if he wants real data, I would look toward those who use tobacco in my near family. If they are strung out and always quitting till they die, I would avoid it. But I also wouldn't make it such an all or nothing dire situation. If you believe this is a one time decision, when you might want to quit, you might really believe the nonsense, and think it is pointless to try.

I've seen that pattern in AA where they condition people in meeting over and over about not being able to have a single drink or two without utter and complete relapse. This speaks against nearly all literature on the subject and given the fact that most in AA are not alcoholics anymore but people badgered by their spouses and the courts to stop irresponsible drinking, they might have a drink and then *bam* they are off to the races, cause that is what that drinks means.

It doesn't.

So James, I would suggest not picking up tobacco but if you do, there are a variety of way to use which have varying risks and benefits.

More so, I think JamesR is mature enough to digest all this and make the appropriate decision.

Why thank you Jason.

Well, looking at my family history in regards to tobacco usage and my own health right now, taking into account the potential risks, I think that I'll merely use tobacco in moderation--perhaps a tin can every few weeks to a month, sometimes more, sometimes less. If I start seeing any negative signs, I'll cut back or quit. That being said though, I do have some addictive tendencies that I think I should be very cautious about when delving into a potentially addictive product.

My questions have been answered.

I hope you got your college essay written.

 :angel:
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline hecma925

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #75 on: March 28, 2014, 08:00:10 AM »
Despite everyone discussing habit vs non habit etc...

Honestly James, considering you have an uncle with cancer, if I were in your shoes I would steer very clear of as many of the cancer causing things as is possible.

Even if there is a trigger, the 'likelyhood' of aquiring a cancer is genetic.  'Not all people have these dire consequences', which is true, but the odds increase if you have the genetic pre-disposition.


I personally just wouldn't take the risk over something that is not -doing- anything for my life in a positive way.

A very immature boy is trying to be manly. If he wants to chew chaw and hock into a spittoon, I say let him. I don't know why anyone bothers giving James advice anymore, he never listens.


A very good point...just so long as the spittoon isn't a clear orange juice bottle and he isn't the one next to me in the airplane. ::)

(yes...I have had that happen....grossest 6 hours of my life)

Ugh, not even the common decency of a Coke can?
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Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #76 on: March 28, 2014, 08:20:44 AM »
Despite everyone discussing habit vs non habit etc...

Honestly James, considering you have an uncle with cancer, if I were in your shoes I would steer very clear of as many of the cancer causing things as is possible.

Even if there is a trigger, the 'likelyhood' of aquiring a cancer is genetic.  'Not all people have these dire consequences', which is true, but the odds increase if you have the genetic pre-disposition.


I personally just wouldn't take the risk over something that is not -doing- anything for my life in a positive way.

A very immature boy is trying to be manly. If he wants to chew chaw and hock into a spittoon, I say let him. I don't know why anyone bothers giving James advice anymore, he never listens.


A very good point...just so long as the spittoon isn't a clear orange juice bottle and he isn't the one next to me in the airplane. ::)

(yes...I have had that happen....grossest 6 hours of my life)

Ugh, not even the common decency of a Coke can?

No. I spent six hours trying to face into the aisle and pretend blindness.

It was nauseating. In the literal sense

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Offline Kerdy

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #77 on: March 28, 2014, 07:44:13 PM »
I'm enjoying a pipe as I type.  Occasionally I spend the extra money on a cigar.  I haven't dipped in over 20 years.

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #78 on: February 27, 2015, 11:43:45 PM »
You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.

This does not work. I have had a cross on my arm for 4-5 years, and almost all my upper arm covered in crosses for 4-5 months, and have observed no change whatsoever. JamesR should have let me publish results before starting his own experiment. Well, what can you do?

Offline orthonorm

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #79 on: February 28, 2015, 04:10:44 AM »
You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.

This does not work. I have had a cross on my arm for 4-5 years, and almost all my upper arm covered in crosses for 4-5 months, and have observed no change whatsoever. JamesR should have let me publish results before starting his own experiment. Well, what can you do?

There is truth to ZZ's words and very well put. Of course what she doesnt understand is that is the very structure of all belief. Believing 24/7 is no fun. It's terribly exhausting.

I just can't beleieve that all these people can't connect to what JamesR writes large and openly here with their own contradictory pious nonsense. Because I can't, I pay someone to write these posts in which I do act as though others do lack such introspection.