Author Topic: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco  (Read 7815 times)

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Offline JamesR

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How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« on: March 25, 2014, 07:16:04 PM »
Recently I started using Copenhagen Long Cut "dipping" tobacco and I've found that I really enjoy it--more so than cigars and smoking tobacco. My favorite flavor is Mint. I go through about a circular can a month. I want some real, unbiased sources and knowledge on just how dangerous--if at all--this really is for my health. Should I stop before I become addicted? Does anyone here have any experience with it? I love that lucid, uplifting feeling I get from the nicotine buzz  :laugh:

So, realistically, is this stuff dangerous? My mom hates seeing me do it because she says it will ruin my teeth that she spent money getting braces on when I was in 6-7th grade.

Offline orthonorm

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2014, 07:19:56 PM »
Recently I started using Copenhagen Long Cut "dipping" tobacco and I've found that I really enjoy it--more so than cigars and smoking tobacco. My favorite flavor is Mint. I go through about a circular can a month. I want some real, unbiased sources and knowledge on just how dangerous--if at all--this really is for my health. Should I stop before I become addicted? Does anyone here have any experience with it? I love that lucid, uplifting feeling I get from the nicotine buzz  :laugh:

So, realistically, is this stuff dangerous? My mom hates seeing me do it because she says it will ruin my teeth that she spent money getting braces on when I was in 6-7th grade.

Mint. Gross.

Snus. The real stuff.

Your welcome.

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2014, 07:25:58 PM »
Recently I started using Copenhagen Long Cut "dipping" tobacco and I've found that I really enjoy it--more so than cigars and smoking tobacco. My favorite flavor is Mint. I go through about a circular can a month. I want some real, unbiased sources and knowledge on just how dangerous--if at all--this really is for my health. Should I stop before I become addicted? Does anyone here have any experience with it? I love that lucid, uplifting feeling I get from the nicotine buzz  :laugh:

So, realistically, is this stuff dangerous? My mom hates seeing me do it because she says it will ruin my teeth that she spent money getting braces on when I was in 6-7th grade.
Common sense should tell you that if you have something as abrasive as smokeless tobacco rubbing against your teeth and gums all day every day you're very quickly going to lose tooth enamel and your gums. The end result of all this is that you'll lose your teeth.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2014, 07:26:22 PM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #3 on: March 25, 2014, 07:30:40 PM »
Recently I started using Copenhagen Long Cut "dipping" tobacco and I've found that I really enjoy it--more so than cigars and smoking tobacco. My favorite flavor is Mint. I go through about a circular can a month. I want some real, unbiased sources and knowledge on just how dangerous--if at all--this really is for my health. Should I stop before I become addicted? Does anyone here have any experience with it? I love that lucid, uplifting feeling I get from the nicotine buzz  :laugh:

So, realistically, is this stuff dangerous? My mom hates seeing me do it because she says it will ruin my teeth that she spent money getting braces on when I was in 6-7th grade.
Common sense should tell you that if you have something as abrasive as smokeless tobacco rubbing against your teeth and gums all day every day you're very quickly going to lose tooth enamel and your gums. The end result of all this is that you'll lose your teeth.

Might not need those teeth when the oral cancer happens...
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #4 on: March 25, 2014, 07:36:12 PM »
Recently I started using Copenhagen Long Cut "dipping" tobacco and I've found that I really enjoy it--more so than cigars and smoking tobacco. My favorite flavor is Mint. I go through about a circular can a month. I want some real, unbiased sources and knowledge on just how dangerous--if at all--this really is for my health. Should I stop before I become addicted? Does anyone here have any experience with it? I love that lucid, uplifting feeling I get from the nicotine buzz  :laugh:

So, realistically, is this stuff dangerous? My mom hates seeing me do it because she says it will ruin my teeth that she spent money getting braces on when I was in 6-7th grade.
Seeing that you asked for real, unbiased--I assume you mean outside--sources on the dangers of smokeless tobacco, let me list a couple or three:

http://www.cancer.gov/cancertopics/factsheet/Tobacco/smokeless
http://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancercauses/tobaccocancer/smokeless-tobacco
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/smokelesstobacco.html
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Online WPM

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #5 on: March 25, 2014, 08:48:26 PM »
Addictive and expensive
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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #6 on: March 25, 2014, 10:42:57 PM »
Recently I started using Copenhagen Long Cut "dipping" tobacco and I've found that I really enjoy it--more so than cigars and smoking tobacco. My favorite flavor is Mint. I go through about a circular can a month. I want some real, unbiased sources and knowledge on just how dangerous--if at all--this really is for my health. Should I stop before I become addicted? Does anyone here have any experience with it? I love that lucid, uplifting feeling I get from the nicotine buzz  :laugh:

So, realistically, is this stuff dangerous? My mom hates seeing me do it because she says it will ruin my teeth that she spent money getting braces on when I was in 6-7th grade.
Common sense should tell you that if you have something as abrasive as smokeless tobacco rubbing against your teeth and gums all day every day you're very quickly going to lose tooth enamel and your gums. The end result of all this is that you'll lose your teeth.

Might not need those teeth when the oral cancer happens...

Yup. And orthonorm's "advice" is disgusting, if not criminal. Nasal and pharyngeal cancer, anyone? Lovely ....  :P :P :P >:(
« Last Edit: March 25, 2014, 10:44:30 PM by LBK »
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline orthonorm

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2014, 10:53:04 PM »
Recently I started using Copenhagen Long Cut "dipping" tobacco and I've found that I really enjoy it--more so than cigars and smoking tobacco. My favorite flavor is Mint. I go through about a circular can a month. I want some real, unbiased sources and knowledge on just how dangerous--if at all--this really is for my health. Should I stop before I become addicted? Does anyone here have any experience with it? I love that lucid, uplifting feeling I get from the nicotine buzz  :laugh:

So, realistically, is this stuff dangerous? My mom hates seeing me do it because she says it will ruin my teeth that she spent money getting braces on when I was in 6-7th grade.
Common sense should tell you that if you have something as abrasive as smokeless tobacco rubbing against your teeth and gums all day every day you're very quickly going to lose tooth enamel and your gums. The end result of all this is that you'll lose your teeth.

Might not need those teeth when the oral cancer happens...

Yup. And orthonorm's "advice" is disgusting, if not criminal. Nasal and pharyngeal cancer, anyone? Lovely ....  :P :P :P >:(

You have no idea what you are talking about. If I get time I'll demonstrate once again you rarely have any notion of what you are talking about. You post only suggests you were close to someone who died from disease which happens more frequently and earlier within tobacco users. That is all.

Please attempt to convict me of my crime. In the meantime, look at the health outcomes for those using non-cured oral tobacco. Hard to differentiate them from non-users.

I doubt you know much about the differences in orally used tobaccos. I grew up for a greater portion of my life in tobacco country.

Again, I'll post even more criminal stuff later.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2014, 10:53:45 PM by orthonorm »

Offline LBK

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #8 on: March 25, 2014, 11:12:20 PM »
Quote
You post only suggests you were close to someone who died from disease which happens more frequently and earlier within tobacco users. That is all.

Your presumption, as usual, is wrong. But you have a record of closing your eyes and ears to anything I say, so there's no point in me elaborating further on your errors.
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline JamesR

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #9 on: March 26, 2014, 12:25:54 AM »
Recently I started using Copenhagen Long Cut "dipping" tobacco and I've found that I really enjoy it--more so than cigars and smoking tobacco. My favorite flavor is Mint. I go through about a circular can a month. I want some real, unbiased sources and knowledge on just how dangerous--if at all--this really is for my health. Should I stop before I become addicted? Does anyone here have any experience with it? I love that lucid, uplifting feeling I get from the nicotine buzz  :laugh:

So, realistically, is this stuff dangerous? My mom hates seeing me do it because she says it will ruin my teeth that she spent money getting braces on when I was in 6-7th grade.
Common sense should tell you that if you have something as abrasive as smokeless tobacco rubbing against your teeth and gums all day every day you're very quickly going to lose tooth enamel and your gums. The end result of all this is that you'll lose your teeth.

Might not need those teeth when the oral cancer happens...

Yup. And orthonorm's "advice" is disgusting, if not criminal. Nasal and pharyngeal cancer, anyone? Lovely ....  :P :P :P >:(

You have no idea what you are talking about. If I get time I'll demonstrate once again you rarely have any notion of what you are talking about. You post only suggests you were close to someone who died from disease which happens more frequently and earlier within tobacco users. That is all.

Please attempt to convict me of my crime. In the meantime, look at the health outcomes for those using non-cured oral tobacco. Hard to differentiate them from non-users.

I doubt you know much about the differences in orally used tobaccos. I grew up for a greater portion of my life in tobacco country.

Again, I'll post even more criminal stuff later.

Can you explain to me the difference between cured and non cured oral tobacco? I'm new to this. Is Copenhagen's Long Cut stuff non-cured? What product would you recommend for a newcomer like me? Preferably safer.

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #10 on: March 26, 2014, 01:14:55 AM »
Recently I started using Copenhagen Long Cut "dipping" tobacco and I've found that I really enjoy it--more so than cigars and smoking tobacco. My favorite flavor is Mint. I go through about a circular can a month. I want some real, unbiased sources and knowledge on just how dangerous--if at all--this really is for my health. Should I stop before I become addicted? Does anyone here have any experience with it? I love that lucid, uplifting feeling I get from the nicotine buzz  :laugh:

So, realistically, is this stuff dangerous? My mom hates seeing me do it because she says it will ruin my teeth that she spent money getting braces on when I was in 6-7th grade.
Common sense should tell you that if you have something as abrasive as smokeless tobacco rubbing against your teeth and gums all day every day you're very quickly going to lose tooth enamel and your gums. The end result of all this is that you'll lose your teeth.

Might not need those teeth when the oral cancer happens...

Yup. And orthonorm's "advice" is disgusting, if not criminal. Nasal and pharyngeal cancer, anyone? Lovely ....  :P :P :P >:(

You have no idea what you are talking about. If I get time I'll demonstrate once again you rarely have any notion of what you are talking about. You post only suggests you were close to someone who died from disease which happens more frequently and earlier within tobacco users. That is all.

Please attempt to convict me of my crime. In the meantime, look at the health outcomes for those using non-cured oral tobacco. Hard to differentiate them from non-users.

I doubt you know much about the differences in orally used tobaccos. I grew up for a greater portion of my life in tobacco country.

Again, I'll post even more criminal stuff later.

Can you explain to me the difference between cured and non cured oral tobacco? I'm new to this. Is Copenhagen's Long Cut stuff non-cured? What product would you recommend for a newcomer like me? Preferably safer.
You will listen to whom you will listen to. ::) You asked for objective sources that point out the dangers of smokeless tobacco, and I provided some. Have you not read them?
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Offline LBK

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #11 on: March 26, 2014, 01:25:53 AM »
Recently I started using Copenhagen Long Cut "dipping" tobacco and I've found that I really enjoy it--more so than cigars and smoking tobacco. My favorite flavor is Mint. I go through about a circular can a month. I want some real, unbiased sources and knowledge on just how dangerous--if at all--this really is for my health. Should I stop before I become addicted? Does anyone here have any experience with it? I love that lucid, uplifting feeling I get from the nicotine buzz  :laugh:

So, realistically, is this stuff dangerous? My mom hates seeing me do it because she says it will ruin my teeth that she spent money getting braces on when I was in 6-7th grade.
Common sense should tell you that if you have something as abrasive as smokeless tobacco rubbing against your teeth and gums all day every day you're very quickly going to lose tooth enamel and your gums. The end result of all this is that you'll lose your teeth.

Might not need those teeth when the oral cancer happens...

Yup. And orthonorm's "advice" is disgusting, if not criminal. Nasal and pharyngeal cancer, anyone? Lovely ....  :P :P :P >:(

You have no idea what you are talking about. If I get time I'll demonstrate once again you rarely have any notion of what you are talking about. You post only suggests you were close to someone who died from disease which happens more frequently and earlier within tobacco users. That is all.

Please attempt to convict me of my crime. In the meantime, look at the health outcomes for those using non-cured oral tobacco. Hard to differentiate them from non-users.

I doubt you know much about the differences in orally used tobaccos. I grew up for a greater portion of my life in tobacco country.

Again, I'll post even more criminal stuff later.

Can you explain to me the difference between cured and non cured oral tobacco? I'm new to this. Is Copenhagen's Long Cut stuff non-cured? What product would you recommend for a newcomer like me? Preferably safer.
You will listen to whom you will listen to. ::) You asked for objective sources that point out the dangers of smokeless tobacco, and I provided some. Have you not read them?

He'd rather take the "advice" of Guru Orthonorm than that of health professionals who've done the research and/or who see and deal with the results of tobacco use in the course of their clinical and surgical practices.
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #12 on: March 26, 2014, 01:30:58 AM »
Recently I started using Copenhagen Long Cut "dipping" tobacco and I've found that I really enjoy it--more so than cigars and smoking tobacco. My favorite flavor is Mint. I go through about a circular can a month. I want some real, unbiased sources and knowledge on just how dangerous--if at all--this really is for my health. Should I stop before I become addicted? Does anyone here have any experience with it? I love that lucid, uplifting feeling I get from the nicotine buzz  :laugh:

So, realistically, is this stuff dangerous? My mom hates seeing me do it because she says it will ruin my teeth that she spent money getting braces on when I was in 6-7th grade.
Common sense should tell you that if you have something as abrasive as smokeless tobacco rubbing against your teeth and gums all day every day you're very quickly going to lose tooth enamel and your gums. The end result of all this is that you'll lose your teeth.

Might not need those teeth when the oral cancer happens...

Yup. And orthonorm's "advice" is disgusting, if not criminal. Nasal and pharyngeal cancer, anyone? Lovely ....  :P :P :P >:(

You have no idea what you are talking about. If I get time I'll demonstrate once again you rarely have any notion of what you are talking about. You post only suggests you were close to someone who died from disease which happens more frequently and earlier within tobacco users. That is all.

Please attempt to convict me of my crime. In the meantime, look at the health outcomes for those using non-cured oral tobacco. Hard to differentiate them from non-users.

I doubt you know much about the differences in orally used tobaccos. I grew up for a greater portion of my life in tobacco country.

Again, I'll post even more criminal stuff later.

Can you explain to me the difference between cured and non cured oral tobacco? I'm new to this. Is Copenhagen's Long Cut stuff non-cured? What product would you recommend for a newcomer like me? Preferably safer.
You will listen to whom you will listen to. ::) You asked for objective sources that point out the dangers of smokeless tobacco, and I provided some. Have you not read them?

He'd rather take the "advice" of Guru Orthonorm than that of health professionals who've done the research and/or who see and deal with the results of tobacco use in the course of their clinical and surgical practices.
Hell, even just reading the sources I provided and choosing to dispute them for reasonable cause is better than ignoring them and following blindly after orthonorm just because orthonorm takes the time to flatter him.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2014, 01:37:13 AM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline Maria

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #13 on: March 26, 2014, 01:43:09 AM »
Recently I started using Copenhagen Long Cut "dipping" tobacco and I've found that I really enjoy it--more so than cigars and smoking tobacco. My favorite flavor is Mint. I go through about a circular can a month. I want some real, unbiased sources and knowledge on just how dangerous--if at all--this really is for my health. Should I stop before I become addicted? Does anyone here have any experience with it? I love that lucid, uplifting feeling I get from the nicotine buzz  :laugh:

So, realistically, is this stuff dangerous? My mom hates seeing me do it because she says it will ruin my teeth that she spent money getting braces on when I was in 6-7th grade.
Common sense should tell you that if you have something as abrasive as smokeless tobacco rubbing against your teeth and gums all day every day you're very quickly going to lose tooth enamel and your gums. The end result of all this is that you'll lose your teeth.

Might not need those teeth when the oral cancer happens...

Yup. And orthonorm's "advice" is disgusting, if not criminal. Nasal and pharyngeal cancer, anyone? Lovely ....  :P :P :P >:(

You have no idea what you are talking about. If I get time I'll demonstrate once again you rarely have any notion of what you are talking about. You post only suggests you were close to someone who died from disease which happens more frequently and earlier within tobacco users. That is all.

Please attempt to convict me of my crime. In the meantime, look at the health outcomes for those using non-cured oral tobacco. Hard to differentiate them from non-users.

I doubt you know much about the differences in orally used tobaccos. I grew up for a greater portion of my life in tobacco country.

Again, I'll post even more criminal stuff later.

Can you explain to me the difference between cured and non cured oral tobacco? I'm new to this. Is Copenhagen's Long Cut stuff non-cured? What product would you recommend for a newcomer like me? Preferably safer.

DO NOT USE EITHER.

Why do people think that they must use tobacco or drink alcohol as a sign that they have "grown up"?

If you had a girl friend, she would be repulsed if you wanted to kiss her with all that thick brown saliva in your mouth. It could be a real turn off. Do you have a spitoon too?
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline LBK

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #14 on: March 26, 2014, 01:52:28 AM »
Recently I started using Copenhagen Long Cut "dipping" tobacco and I've found that I really enjoy it--more so than cigars and smoking tobacco. My favorite flavor is Mint. I go through about a circular can a month. I want some real, unbiased sources and knowledge on just how dangerous--if at all--this really is for my health. Should I stop before I become addicted? Does anyone here have any experience with it? I love that lucid, uplifting feeling I get from the nicotine buzz  :laugh:

So, realistically, is this stuff dangerous? My mom hates seeing me do it because she says it will ruin my teeth that she spent money getting braces on when I was in 6-7th grade.
Common sense should tell you that if you have something as abrasive as smokeless tobacco rubbing against your teeth and gums all day every day you're very quickly going to lose tooth enamel and your gums. The end result of all this is that you'll lose your teeth.

Might not need those teeth when the oral cancer happens...

Yup. And orthonorm's "advice" is disgusting, if not criminal. Nasal and pharyngeal cancer, anyone? Lovely ....  :P :P :P >:(

You have no idea what you are talking about. If I get time I'll demonstrate once again you rarely have any notion of what you are talking about. You post only suggests you were close to someone who died from disease which happens more frequently and earlier within tobacco users. That is all.

Please attempt to convict me of my crime. In the meantime, look at the health outcomes for those using non-cured oral tobacco. Hard to differentiate them from non-users.

I doubt you know much about the differences in orally used tobaccos. I grew up for a greater portion of my life in tobacco country.

Again, I'll post even more criminal stuff later.

Can you explain to me the difference between cured and non cured oral tobacco? I'm new to this. Is Copenhagen's Long Cut stuff non-cured? What product would you recommend for a newcomer like me? Preferably safer.
You will listen to whom you will listen to. ::) You asked for objective sources that point out the dangers of smokeless tobacco, and I provided some. Have you not read them?

He'd rather take the "advice" of Guru Orthonorm than that of health professionals who've done the research and/or who see and deal with the results of tobacco use in the course of their clinical and surgical practices.
Hell, even just reading the sources I provided and choosing to dispute them for reasonable cause is better than following blindly after orthonorm just because orthonorm takes the time to flatter him.

Perfectly stated.
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #15 on: March 26, 2014, 02:26:18 AM »
Recently I started using Copenhagen Long Cut "dipping" tobacco and I've found that I really enjoy it--more so than cigars and smoking tobacco. My favorite flavor is Mint. I go through about a circular can a month. I want some real, unbiased sources and knowledge on just how dangerous--if at all--this really is for my health. Should I stop before I become addicted? Does anyone here have any experience with it? I love that lucid, uplifting feeling I get from the nicotine buzz  :laugh:

So, realistically, is this stuff dangerous? My mom hates seeing me do it because she says it will ruin my teeth that she spent money getting braces on when I was in 6-7th grade.
Common sense should tell you that if you have something as abrasive as smokeless tobacco rubbing against your teeth and gums all day every day you're very quickly going to lose tooth enamel and your gums. The end result of all this is that you'll lose your teeth.

Might not need those teeth when the oral cancer happens...

Yup. And orthonorm's "advice" is disgusting, if not criminal. Nasal and pharyngeal cancer, anyone? Lovely ....  :P :P :P >:(

You have no idea what you are talking about. If I get time I'll demonstrate once again you rarely have any notion of what you are talking about. You post only suggests you were close to someone who died from disease which happens more frequently and earlier within tobacco users. That is all.

Please attempt to convict me of my crime. In the meantime, look at the health outcomes for those using non-cured oral tobacco. Hard to differentiate them from non-users.

I doubt you know much about the differences in orally used tobaccos. I grew up for a greater portion of my life in tobacco country.

Again, I'll post even more criminal stuff later.

Can you explain to me the difference between cured and non cured oral tobacco? I'm new to this. Is Copenhagen's Long Cut stuff non-cured? What product would you recommend for a newcomer like me? Preferably safer.

DO NOT USE EITHER.

Why do people think that they must use tobacco or drink alcohol as a sign that they have "grown up"?
What problem do you have with alcohol, Maria? After all, wine is a central part of most of our Church's liturgical services. (On second thought, don't answer that question, for it's not relevant to this thread.)
Not all who wander are lost.

Offline JamesR

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2014, 02:27:37 AM »
Recently I started using Copenhagen Long Cut "dipping" tobacco and I've found that I really enjoy it--more so than cigars and smoking tobacco. My favorite flavor is Mint. I go through about a circular can a month. I want some real, unbiased sources and knowledge on just how dangerous--if at all--this really is for my health. Should I stop before I become addicted? Does anyone here have any experience with it? I love that lucid, uplifting feeling I get from the nicotine buzz  :laugh:

So, realistically, is this stuff dangerous? My mom hates seeing me do it because she says it will ruin my teeth that she spent money getting braces on when I was in 6-7th grade.
Common sense should tell you that if you have something as abrasive as smokeless tobacco rubbing against your teeth and gums all day every day you're very quickly going to lose tooth enamel and your gums. The end result of all this is that you'll lose your teeth.

Might not need those teeth when the oral cancer happens...

Yup. And orthonorm's "advice" is disgusting, if not criminal. Nasal and pharyngeal cancer, anyone? Lovely ....  :P :P :P >:(

You have no idea what you are talking about. If I get time I'll demonstrate once again you rarely have any notion of what you are talking about. You post only suggests you were close to someone who died from disease which happens more frequently and earlier within tobacco users. That is all.

Please attempt to convict me of my crime. In the meantime, look at the health outcomes for those using non-cured oral tobacco. Hard to differentiate them from non-users.

I doubt you know much about the differences in orally used tobaccos. I grew up for a greater portion of my life in tobacco country.

Again, I'll post even more criminal stuff later.

Can you explain to me the difference between cured and non cured oral tobacco? I'm new to this. Is Copenhagen's Long Cut stuff non-cured? What product would you recommend for a newcomer like me? Preferably safer.
You will listen to whom you will listen to. ::) You asked for objective sources that point out the dangers of smokeless tobacco, and I provided some. Have you not read them?

I read them all, and while being helpful, they were still vague. They virtually all point out that there's a correlation between smokeless tobacco and cancer, but neither of them have explained HOW strong this risk or correlation is. Nowadays it seems like even drinking water causes cancer.

Offline JamesR

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2014, 02:27:37 AM »
DO NOT USE EITHER

Why do people think that they must use tobacco or drink alcohol as a sign that they have "grown up"?

Well I actually tried it for curiousity's sake after a friend purchased a can and I started enjoying it. I'd be completely willing to quit if I had sufficient evidence that it was significantly harmful to my health. I hardly ever use it anyhow--only about a can a month. I do it because I enjoy the nicotine buzz and I've found that it helps relieve my migraines.

Quote
If you had a girl friend, she would be repulsed if you wanted to kiss her with all that thick brown saliva in your mouth. It could be a real turn off.

Well at least there'd be less temptation to fornicate. I wouldn't be able to resist a turned-on female.

Quote
Do you have a spitoon too?

I wish! But my family won't let me because they think they're repulsive.

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #18 on: March 26, 2014, 02:29:13 AM »
Recently I started using Copenhagen Long Cut "dipping" tobacco and I've found that I really enjoy it--more so than cigars and smoking tobacco. My favorite flavor is Mint. I go through about a circular can a month. I want some real, unbiased sources and knowledge on just how dangerous--if at all--this really is for my health. Should I stop before I become addicted? Does anyone here have any experience with it? I love that lucid, uplifting feeling I get from the nicotine buzz  :laugh:

So, realistically, is this stuff dangerous? My mom hates seeing me do it because she says it will ruin my teeth that she spent money getting braces on when I was in 6-7th grade.
Common sense should tell you that if you have something as abrasive as smokeless tobacco rubbing against your teeth and gums all day every day you're very quickly going to lose tooth enamel and your gums. The end result of all this is that you'll lose your teeth.

Might not need those teeth when the oral cancer happens...

Yup. And orthonorm's "advice" is disgusting, if not criminal. Nasal and pharyngeal cancer, anyone? Lovely ....  :P :P :P >:(

You have no idea what you are talking about. If I get time I'll demonstrate once again you rarely have any notion of what you are talking about. You post only suggests you were close to someone who died from disease which happens more frequently and earlier within tobacco users. That is all.

Please attempt to convict me of my crime. In the meantime, look at the health outcomes for those using non-cured oral tobacco. Hard to differentiate them from non-users.

I doubt you know much about the differences in orally used tobaccos. I grew up for a greater portion of my life in tobacco country.

Again, I'll post even more criminal stuff later.

Can you explain to me the difference between cured and non cured oral tobacco? I'm new to this. Is Copenhagen's Long Cut stuff non-cured? What product would you recommend for a newcomer like me? Preferably safer.
You will listen to whom you will listen to. ::) You asked for objective sources that point out the dangers of smokeless tobacco, and I provided some. Have you not read them?

I read them all, and while being helpful, they were still vague. They virtually all point out that there's a correlation between smokeless tobacco and cancer, but neither of them have explained HOW strong this risk or correlation is. Nowadays it seems like even drinking water causes cancer.
Dude, if you can think that, then you're far too cynical for any reasonable person to reach you. ::)

BTW, you might try reading this if you want an actual explanation of how smokeless tobacco is thought to increase your risk of cancer:
http://www.webmd.com/smoking-cessation/news/20120822/cancer-causing-chemical-in-smokeless-tobacco
« Last Edit: March 26, 2014, 02:39:11 AM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #19 on: March 26, 2014, 02:30:37 AM »
DO NOT USE EITHER

Why do people think that they must use tobacco or drink alcohol as a sign that they have "grown up"?

Well I actually tried it for curiousity's sake after a friend purchased a can and I started enjoying it. I'd be completely willing to quit if I had sufficient evidence that it was significantly harmful to my health. I hardly ever use it anyhow--only about a can a month. I do it because I enjoy the nicotine buzz and I've found that it helps relieve my migraines.

Quote
If you had a girl friend, she would be repulsed if you wanted to kiss her with all that thick brown saliva in your mouth. It could be a real turn off.

Well at least there'd be less temptation to fornicate. I wouldn't be able to resist a turned-on female.
Masturbation may keep you from fornicating, but the Church frowns on both. So what's your point?
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Offline Tallitot

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #20 on: March 26, 2014, 02:37:01 AM »
There is no such thing as safe tobacco, anymore than there is "safe heroin". Your body is a temple, not a junk yard.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2014, 02:38:14 AM by Tallitot »
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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2014, 07:15:37 AM »
I am a pipe smoker of 45-50 years who smokes maybe 2- 3 cigars a year and I detest cigarettes. But smokeless tobacco is absolutely the worst from a health perspective. Blood tests for nicotine cannot discern a non-smoker from a pipe smoker, but smokeless users are get TWICE dose of cigarette users (who get 200 times the pipe guys).
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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2014, 07:28:27 AM »
There is no such thing as safe tobacco, anymore than there is "safe heroin". Your body is a temple, not a junk yard.

This.
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Offline AMichael

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2014, 08:07:43 AM »
As a former user of smokeless tobacco of 20 years, I can tell you this. You will lose most of your teeth at the minimum. Thank God, I never got cancer from it. Its a nasty habit and hard to break once you get started. People say its harder to quit than cigarettes. I got off of it using non-tobacco snuff. Comes in mint as well as many other flavors.

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2014, 11:28:36 AM »
I am a pipe smoker of 45-50 years who smokes maybe 2- 3 cigars a year and I detest cigarettes. But smokeless tobacco is absolutely the worst from a health perspective. Blood tests for nicotine cannot discern a non-smoker from a pipe smoker, but smokeless users are get TWICE dose of cigarette users (who get 200 times the pipe guys).

Pipe is probably the best way to go.  I dabbled (and dribbled) with dip for a bit.  You get a monstrous nicotine buzz.  It's different from the one you get when smoking a harsh cigar.  I had to quick because it played hell on my gag reflex and puking when you have a mouthful of wintergreen skoal is a very unpleasant experience.  I tried proper chewing tobacco once.  It was one of the more vile things I have done in my time.
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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2014, 11:40:04 AM »
Recently I started using Copenhagen Long Cut "dipping" tobacco and I've found that I really enjoy it--more so than cigars and smoking tobacco. My favorite flavor is Mint. I go through about a circular can a month. I want some real, unbiased sources and knowledge on just how dangerous--if at all--this really is for my health. Should I stop before I become addicted? Does anyone here have any experience with it? I love that lucid, uplifting feeling I get from the nicotine buzz  :laugh:

So, realistically, is this stuff dangerous? My mom hates seeing me do it because she says it will ruin my teeth that she spent money getting braces on when I was in 6-7th grade.

You ought to ditch that stuff and fast.  I know people who got mouth and jaw cancer from that stuff and died way too young. 

It's poison. 

Offline Yurysprudentsiya

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2014, 11:42:31 AM »
I am a pipe smoker of 45-50 years who smokes maybe 2- 3 cigars a year and I detest cigarettes. But smokeless tobacco is absolutely the worst from a health perspective. Blood tests for nicotine cannot discern a non-smoker from a pipe smoker, but smokeless users are get TWICE dose of cigarette users (who get 200 times the pipe guys).

Pipe is probably the best way to go.  I dabbled (and dribbled) with dip for a bit.  You get a monstrous nicotine buzz.  It's different from the one you get when smoking a harsh cigar.  I had to quick because it played hell on my gag reflex and puking when you have a mouthful of wintergreen skoal is a very unpleasant experience.  I tried proper chewing tobacco once.  It was one of the more vile things I have done in my time.

Nothing is even better.  I know a pipe smoker, an active guy, who is now incapacitated from advanced stage heart failure.  If he hadn't smoked the pipe he might have gotten to enjoy life and his family, and they him, for another 20 years.  
« Last Edit: March 26, 2014, 11:42:48 AM by Yurysprudentsiya »

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2014, 11:51:18 AM »
I am a pipe smoker of 45-50 years who smokes maybe 2- 3 cigars a year and I detest cigarettes. But smokeless tobacco is absolutely the worst from a health perspective. Blood tests for nicotine cannot discern a non-smoker from a pipe smoker, but smokeless users are get TWICE dose of cigarette users (who get 200 times the pipe guys).

Pipe is probably the best way to go.  I dabbled (and dribbled) with dip for a bit.  You get a monstrous nicotine buzz.  It's different from the one you get when smoking a harsh cigar.  I had to quick because it played hell on my gag reflex and puking when you have a mouthful of wintergreen skoal is a very unpleasant experience.  I tried proper chewing tobacco once.  It was one of the more vile things I have done in my time.

Nothing is even better.  I know a pipe smoker, an active guy, who is now incapacitated from advanced stage heart failure.  If he hadn't smoked the pipe he might have gotten to enjoy life and his family, and they him, for another 20 years.  
Anecdotal evidence really isn't proof of anything and can be considered quite biased--not the things I think James has requested. Besides, you should know that correlation does not prove causation. This is a pipe smoker now incapacitated by advanced stage heart failure. Do you know if there were any other factors that could have led to this guy's heart failure--for instance, poor diet, poor nutrition, diabetes, obesity, etc.? Why do you associate his heart failure so quickly with his pipe smoking?
« Last Edit: March 26, 2014, 11:55:57 AM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline Yurysprudentsiya

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #28 on: March 26, 2014, 11:56:37 AM »
I am a pipe smoker of 45-50 years who smokes maybe 2- 3 cigars a year and I detest cigarettes. But smokeless tobacco is absolutely the worst from a health perspective. Blood tests for nicotine cannot discern a non-smoker from a pipe smoker, but smokeless users are get TWICE dose of cigarette users (who get 200 times the pipe guys).

Pipe is probably the best way to go.  I dabbled (and dribbled) with dip for a bit.  You get a monstrous nicotine buzz.  It's different from the one you get when smoking a harsh cigar.  I had to quick because it played hell on my gag reflex and puking when you have a mouthful of wintergreen skoal is a very unpleasant experience.  I tried proper chewing tobacco once.  It was one of the more vile things I have done in my time.

Nothing is even better.  I know a pipe smoker, an active guy, who is now incapacitated from advanced stage heart failure.  If he hadn't smoked the pipe he might have gotten to enjoy life and his family, and they him, for another 20 years.  
Anecdotal evidence really isn't proof of anything and can be considered quite biased--not the things I think James has requested. Besides, you should know that correlation does not prove causation. This is a pipe smoker now incapacitated by advanced stage heart failure. Do you know if there were any other factors that could have led to this guy's heart failure? Why do you associate his heart failure so quickly with his pipe smoking?

I know of no other risk factors.  I only know of one other person who developed advanced heart failure at such an age - also a heavy smoker.   That person is now deceased. 

One may have recourse to scientific studies but when one encounters the proverbial duck, it is the height of lunacy, in my view, to pretend that it might be a disguised sheep.

The evils of tobacco are so well known that I'm surprised anyone who is moderately informed even considers its use.  Those already addicted are a different, sad, story.   

Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #29 on: March 26, 2014, 12:01:51 PM »

James wants -concrete- proof...people have given him scientific studies...which he has read and decided that they do not prove that 100% of people have issues.

He is young and thus reckless and assumes that he will miraculously be that person who has nothing bad happen.

People have given 1st person stories of tooth loss...etc....again, he assumes he will not be -that- one.


There is no point in attempting to prove a -risk- to someone who wants it to be black and white....they will never fully believe that their odds are not good.

Much like the gambling in Las Vegas is designed to make the casino money at your expense, while you still hear 'tales of winners', the tobacco industry has been proven to be making money at your expense, despite the tales of 'survivors with no ill effects'.

All opinions expressed by myself are quite tragically my own, and not those of any other poster or wall hangings.

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #30 on: March 26, 2014, 12:09:02 PM »
I am a pipe smoker of 45-50 years who smokes maybe 2- 3 cigars a year and I detest cigarettes. But smokeless tobacco is absolutely the worst from a health perspective. Blood tests for nicotine cannot discern a non-smoker from a pipe smoker, but smokeless users are get TWICE dose of cigarette users (who get 200 times the pipe guys).

Pipe is probably the best way to go.  I dabbled (and dribbled) with dip for a bit.  You get a monstrous nicotine buzz.  It's different from the one you get when smoking a harsh cigar.  I had to quick because it played hell on my gag reflex and puking when you have a mouthful of wintergreen skoal is a very unpleasant experience.  I tried proper chewing tobacco once.  It was one of the more vile things I have done in my time.

Nothing is even better.  I know a pipe smoker, an active guy, who is now incapacitated from advanced stage heart failure.  If he hadn't smoked the pipe he might have gotten to enjoy life and his family, and they him, for another 20 years.  
Anecdotal evidence really isn't proof of anything and can be considered quite biased--not the things I think James has requested. Besides, you should know that correlation does not prove causation. This is a pipe smoker now incapacitated by advanced stage heart failure. Do you know if there were any other factors that could have led to this guy's heart failure? Why do you associate his heart failure so quickly with his pipe smoking?

I know of no other risk factors.  I only know of one other person who developed advanced heart failure at such an age - also a heavy smoker.   That person is now deceased.
You didn't say that the guy was a heavy pipe smoker. That word in itself would have painted a different picture. Even so, it's  still a logical fallacy to say, "This guy was a heavy pipe smoker. Now he has advanced stage heart failure. Therefore, his pipe smoking must have caused his heart failure."

One may have recourse to scientific studies but when one encounters the proverbial duck, it is the height of lunacy, in my view, to pretend that it might be a disguised sheep.
When trying to convince someone else of the dangers of smokeless tobacco use, however, and when the person we're trying to convince asked for unbiased evidence and is smart enough to recognize the fallacy of anecdotal evidence, I don't think you're going to convince him by telling him about a man you know who was once a heavy pipe smoker and now has heart failure.

The evils of tobacco are so well known that I'm surprised anyone who is moderately informed even considers its use.
You do realize that there's a difference between regular use and maybe once-a-year use?

Those already addicted are a different, sad, story.   
Personally, I recognize that this thread was started to ask for advice specifically on the use of smokeless tobacco, as opposed to other forms of tobacco. Therefore, I would like to stick to the subject of the OP and talk about smokeless tobacco. Let's not confuse James by talking about anything else.
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #31 on: March 26, 2014, 12:18:03 PM »

James wants -concrete- proof...people have given him scientific studies...which he has read and decided that they do not prove that 100% of people have issues.

He is young and thus reckless and assumes that he will miraculously be that person who has nothing bad happen.

People have given 1st person stories of tooth loss...etc....again, he assumes he will not be -that- one.


There is no point in attempting to prove a -risk- to someone who wants it to be black and white....they will never fully believe that their odds are not good.

Much like the gambling in Las Vegas is designed to make the casino money at your expense, while you still hear 'tales of winners', the tobacco industry has been proven to be making money at your expense, despite the tales of 'survivors with no ill effects'.


Yup. My dad was a regular tobacco user (one pack of cigarettes a day), and he died of a heart attack at 36--of course, he was also dangerously overweight at the end of this life. George Burns was an avid tobacco user (cigars) for most of his life, and he lived to be 100. Is there any consistency between these facts? No. Not at all. But through the reading of scientific studies that cover a large sampling of the population, we are able to recognize trends in the data and see how the use of smokeless tobacco increases one's risk for life-threatening diseases. Does it prove that 100% of those who use smokeless tobacco will lose their teeth or die of mouth cancer? No. The data can only show us that the probability of such illnesses is made higher by the use of smokeless tobacco.

Now, does James want to heed the data he requested, or does he want to think, "P'shaw! That will never happen to ME!"? I don't know. There's that old proverb about leading a horse to water that comes to mind.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2014, 12:24:07 PM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline ZealousZeal

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #32 on: March 26, 2014, 06:35:51 PM »
Well at least there'd be less temptation to fornicate. I wouldn't be able to resist a turned-on female.

You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.
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Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #33 on: March 26, 2014, 06:45:21 PM »
Well at least there'd be less temptation to fornicate. I wouldn't be able to resist a turned-on female.

You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.
Smokeless tobacco may keep him from fornicating, in a way. It's hard to fornicate when he's dead.
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Offline Quinault

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #34 on: March 26, 2014, 07:50:48 PM »
Real, pure, tobacco in moderation isn't that bad for your health when you smoke it. The stuff sold in cigarette form isn't anything even close to tobacco. It would be like saying that velveeta is cheese; it is cheese-food, not cheese. Cigarettes are tobacco-product, not tobacco.

That said; snuff isn't very good for your oral health. It wouldn't be healthy to hold a mouthful of earl grey in your mouth. It is even less healthy to hold snuff in your mouth. If you *must* use snuff; go for the actual tobacco rather than the tobacco-product. It will be FAR more expensive, so you won't be likely to use it often lest you go broke. But when you do use it, it will be in smaller amounts of a higher quality.

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #35 on: March 26, 2014, 08:33:37 PM »
Because of signing up with a special forum, actually quit dipping snuff tobacco ... By "quit" means having discontinued until the addiction dispelled then may try again in the future.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2014, 08:34:17 PM by WPM »
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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #36 on: March 26, 2014, 08:55:45 PM »
Real, pure, tobacco in moderation isn't that bad for your health when you smoke it. The stuff sold in cigarette form isn't anything even close to tobacco. It would be like saying that velveeta is cheese; it is cheese-food, not cheese. Cigarettes are tobacco-product, not tobacco.

That said; snuff isn't very good for your oral health. It wouldn't be healthy to hold a mouthful of earl grey in your mouth. It is even less healthy to hold snuff in your mouth. If you *must* use snuff; go for the actual tobacco rather than the tobacco-product. It will be FAR more expensive, so you won't be likely to use it often lest you go broke. But when you do use it, it will be in smaller amounts of a higher quality.

Whenever my husband and I have had oral surgery (wisdom teeth removed), the dentist suggest that we put a tea bag where the teeth were removed and bite down on it. The tannins in the tea helped to stop the bleeding.

Hey, why not try medical marijuana ... that you can use as food in salads and drinks, but not smoke.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2014, 08:57:48 PM by Maria »
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Offline Quinault

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #37 on: March 26, 2014, 09:55:15 PM »
That would be fine as a temporary fix, but no dentist would say that you should hold tea in your mouth to the extent that one does snuff.

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #38 on: March 26, 2014, 10:01:51 PM »
Well at least there'd be less temptation to fornicate. I wouldn't be able to resist a turned-on female.

You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #39 on: March 26, 2014, 10:06:20 PM »
That would be fine as a temporary fix, but no dentist would say that you should hold tea in your mouth to the extent that one does snuff.

The teabag fix is also suggested if bleeding continues after your supply of sterile gauze pads given post-operatively to bite on have run out. It is never given as the primary remedy for post-operative bleeding.
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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #40 on: March 26, 2014, 11:44:12 PM »
Well at least there'd be less temptation to fornicate. I wouldn't be able to resist a turned-on female.

You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #41 on: March 26, 2014, 11:47:02 PM »
Recently I started using Copenhagen Long Cut "dipping" tobacco and I've found that I really enjoy it--more so than cigars and smoking tobacco. My favorite flavor is Mint. I go through about a circular can a month. I want some real, unbiased sources and knowledge on just how dangerous--if at all--this really is for my health. Should I stop before I become addicted? Does anyone here have any experience with it? I love that lucid, uplifting feeling I get from the nicotine buzz  :laugh:

So, realistically, is this stuff dangerous? My mom hates seeing me do it because she says it will ruin my teeth that she spent money getting braces on when I was in 6-7th grade.
Common sense should tell you that if you have something as abrasive as smokeless tobacco rubbing against your teeth and gums all day every day you're very quickly going to lose tooth enamel and your gums. The end result of all this is that you'll lose your teeth.

Might not need those teeth when the oral cancer happens...

Yup. And orthonorm's "advice" is disgusting, if not criminal. Nasal and pharyngeal cancer, anyone? Lovely ....  :P :P :P >:(

You have no idea what you are talking about. If I get time I'll demonstrate once again you rarely have any notion of what you are talking about. You post only suggests you were close to someone who died from disease which happens more frequently and earlier within tobacco users. That is all.

Please attempt to convict me of my crime. In the meantime, look at the health outcomes for those using non-cured oral tobacco. Hard to differentiate them from non-users.

I doubt you know much about the differences in orally used tobaccos. I grew up for a greater portion of my life in tobacco country.

Again, I'll post even more criminal stuff later.

Can you explain to me the difference between cured and non cured oral tobacco? I'm new to this. Is Copenhagen's Long Cut stuff non-cured? What product would you recommend for a newcomer like me? Preferably safer.

I've used snuff tobacco many times, ... I would rather quit now.
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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #42 on: March 27, 2014, 12:08:32 AM »
I read them all, and while being helpful, they were still vague. They virtually all point out that there's a correlation between smokeless tobacco and cancer, but neither of them have explained HOW strong this risk or correlation is. Nowadays it seems like even drinking water causes cancer.

I hope this helps:

  • Besides lung cancer, tobacco use also increases the risk for cancers of the mouth, lips, nose and sinuses, larynx (voice box), pharynx (throat), esophagus (swallowing tube), stomach, pancreas, kidney, bladder, uterus, cervix, colon/rectum, ovary (mucinous), and acute myeloid leukemia. (Source: Cancer Facts & Figures 2014)
  • In the United States, tobacco use is responsible for nearly 1 in 5 deaths; this equals about 480,000 early deaths each year. (Source: Cancer Facts & Figures 2014; and US Surgeon General Report 2014)
  • Tobacco use accounts for at least 30% of all cancer deaths, causing 87% of lung cancer deaths in men, and 70% of lung cancer deaths in women. (Source: Cancer Facts & Figures 2014)

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Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #43 on: March 27, 2014, 12:40:40 AM »
I prefer the Surgeon General's report. Less slant, more raw fact.

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #44 on: March 27, 2014, 01:52:28 AM »
I read them all, and while being helpful, they were still vague. They virtually all point out that there's a correlation between smokeless tobacco and cancer, but neither of them have explained HOW strong this risk or correlation is. Nowadays it seems like even drinking water causes cancer.

I hope this helps:

  • Besides lung cancer, tobacco use also increases the risk for cancers of the mouth, lips, nose and sinuses, larynx (voice box), pharynx (throat), esophagus (swallowing tube), stomach, pancreas, kidney, bladder, uterus, cervix, colon/rectum, ovary (mucinous), and acute myeloid leukemia. (Source: Cancer Facts & Figures 2014)
  • In the United States, tobacco use is responsible for nearly 1 in 5 deaths; this equals about 480,000 early deaths each year. (Source: Cancer Facts & Figures 2014; and US Surgeon General Report 2014)
  • Tobacco use accounts for at least 30% of all cancer deaths, causing 87% of lung cancer deaths in men, and 70% of lung cancer deaths in women. (Source: Cancer Facts & Figures 2014)


This is about tobacco use in general. James asked for facts on smokeless tobacco in specific.
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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #45 on: March 27, 2014, 04:17:10 AM »
I have no issues with a few cigars or picking up the briar as a hobby, I indulge in both myself, but I avoid dip for several reasons.  Of the tobacco products, it's the most dangerous, but a dip on occasion is fine.  An addictive habit which is the norm is bad.  

And mint?  *vomit*
« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 04:17:58 AM by Kerdy »

Offline Αριστοκλής

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #46 on: March 27, 2014, 05:53:58 AM »
I read them all, and while being helpful, they were still vague. They virtually all point out that there's a correlation between smokeless tobacco and cancer, but neither of them have explained HOW strong this risk or correlation is. Nowadays it seems like even drinking water causes cancer.

I hope this helps:

  • Besides lung cancer, tobacco use also increases the risk for cancers of the mouth, lips, nose and sinuses, larynx (voice box), pharynx (throat), esophagus (swallowing tube), stomach, pancreas, kidney, bladder, uterus, cervix, colon/rectum, ovary (mucinous), and acute myeloid leukemia. (Source: Cancer Facts & Figures 2014)
  • In the United States, tobacco use is responsible for nearly 1 in 5 deaths; this equals about 480,000 early deaths each year. (Source: Cancer Facts & Figures 2014; and US Surgeon General Report 2014)
  • Tobacco use accounts for at least 30% of all cancer deaths, causing 87% of lung cancer deaths in men, and 70% of lung cancer deaths in women. (Source: Cancer Facts & Figures 2014)


This is about tobacco use in general. James asked for facts on smokeless tobacco in specific.

You are correct. I'm afraid I veered this thread when I alluded to my pipe avocation to lend credence to my advice to NOT use smokeless tobacco (who really wants advice from a non-tobacco user or enemy anyway?).
« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 05:54:25 AM by Αριστοκλής »
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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #47 on: March 27, 2014, 01:45:20 PM »
I've used tobacco.  I favor pipe smoking or a good cigar on occasion.  I used to do the smokeless stuff in college and it helped keep me awake when I needed it.  I've tried snuff, longcut, plugs, chew, and snus.  Out of all of them, I like the taste of natural chew and the convenience of snus (I use these on rare occasion).  Flavored stuff always made me gag.  Mint is for candy and gum; not tobacco.

Anyway, tobacco is something I enjoy every now and then.  I've never felt addicted to it at any time.  It's not the healthiest thing to do, if you had paid attention to middle/high school health class, you would know that; but there are plenty of worse things for your health that can kill you, such as not exercising, getting fat, and eating poorly (which can be just as addicting). 

If you do choose to use it every day, be scrupulous about your oral health.  Keep your teeth and gums clean.  The first hint of redness, swelling, or pain (one reason I stopped with the longcut/snuff), stop.  Take a break.  If symptoms persist, see a dentist/physician. 

You're an adult with access to the internet.  The information and studies are there for your perusal.
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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #48 on: March 27, 2014, 02:04:21 PM »
I read them all, and while being helpful, they were still vague. They virtually all point out that there's a correlation between smokeless tobacco and cancer, but neither of them have explained HOW strong this risk or correlation is. Nowadays it seems like even drinking water causes cancer.

I hope this helps:

  • Besides lung cancer, tobacco use also increases the risk for cancers of the mouth, lips, nose and sinuses, larynx (voice box), pharynx (throat), esophagus (swallowing tube), stomach, pancreas, kidney, bladder, uterus, cervix, colon/rectum, ovary (mucinous), and acute myeloid leukemia. (Source: Cancer Facts & Figures 2014)
  • In the United States, tobacco use is responsible for nearly 1 in 5 deaths; this equals about 480,000 early deaths each year. (Source: Cancer Facts & Figures 2014; and US Surgeon General Report 2014)
  • Tobacco use accounts for at least 30% of all cancer deaths, causing 87% of lung cancer deaths in men, and 70% of lung cancer deaths in women. (Source: Cancer Facts & Figures 2014)


This is about tobacco use in general. James asked for facts on smokeless tobacco in specific.

You are correct. I'm afraid I veered this thread when I alluded to my pipe avocation to lend credence to my advice to NOT use smokeless tobacco (who really wants advice from a non-tobacco user or enemy anyway?).
You give yourself too much credit. ;) The truth be told, I enjoy smoking a cigar or pipe on occasion, but I won't touch cigarettes or smokeless tobacco.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 02:05:41 PM by PeterTheAleut »
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Offline Jonathan Gress

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #49 on: March 27, 2014, 02:46:50 PM »
Yeah, if it's a daily habit you're starting to look at significant health risks, but if you keep it to special occasions, and you genuinely enjoy the flavor of the smoke, then I don't see that it's such a big deal, at least no bigger then enjoying a occasional double bacon cheeseburger or a similar heart-attack-on-a-plate.

Think of it as a special treat. If you start to think of it as self-medication (I need to smoke to calm my nerves, concentrate etc) then you're likely to find yourself self-medicating more often and putting yourself in more serious danger. If you really need something on a regular basis to calm anxiety or relieve pain, talk to your doctor and get something less lethal.

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #50 on: March 27, 2014, 02:51:22 PM »
You're an adult

NOOOOOoooooooooooo!!!!!!!11



Teenagers are not adults. Not by a long shot.

As for the smokeless tobacco, I'd go with Swedish snus. Everything else is heretical. With moderation of course. You could try avoiding the habit during lenten seasons.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 02:57:02 PM by Alpo »
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Offline hecma925

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #51 on: March 27, 2014, 03:05:41 PM »
You're an adult

NOOOOOoooooooooooo!!!!!!!11



Teenagers are not adults. Not by a long shot.

As for the smokeless tobacco, I'd go with Swedish snus. Everything else is heretical. With moderation of course. You could try avoiding the habit during lenten seasons.

LOL!  But really, people need to stop treating legal adults (even if they're 18 or 19) as kids.  They'll continue to act as children if society thinks it's ok.  And, yes, Swedish snus is the standard, even if Camel came out with a "kid" version.
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Offline Alpo

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #52 on: March 27, 2014, 03:09:22 PM »
LOL!  But really, people need to stop treating legal adults (even if they're 18 or 19) as kids.

They are kids. It's just that compared to Americans I might have a little more harsher ideas how kids ought to raised. :angel:
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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #53 on: March 27, 2014, 03:22:02 PM »
You're an adult

NOOOOOoooooooooooo!!!!!!!11



Teenagers are not adults. Not by a long shot.

As for the smokeless tobacco, I'd go with Swedish snus. Everything else is heretical. With moderation of course. You could try avoiding the habit during lenten seasons.

See my suggestion above.

LBK doesn't know what that is and and not knowing manages to believes it poses the same risks as smoking or other forms of oral tobacco. I am not sure how you can't be moderate with snus. It is moderate by design. Nothing like full plug.

Wonder if she is aware of the use of snus as a method of risk reduction in smokers.

I dubbed it the proletariat patch.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 03:22:22 PM by orthonorm »

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #54 on: March 27, 2014, 03:43:49 PM »
I am not sure how you can't be moderate with snus.

Using several dosages of snus while simultaneously smoking a cigarrette seems rather unmoderate to me. I've heard of someone who did that. Not sure if it was an urban legend but wouldn't be anyhow suprised if the story was true.
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Offline Yurysprudentsiya

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #55 on: March 27, 2014, 03:46:20 PM »
You're an adult

NOOOOOoooooooooooo!!!!!!!11



Teenagers are not adults. Not by a long shot.

As for the smokeless tobacco, I'd go with Swedish snus. Everything else is heretical. With moderation of course. You could try avoiding the habit during lenten seasons.

We all have enough bad habits that have accrued to us over a lifetime. 

If one intentionally seeks to cultivate a habit, it ought to be prayer.

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #56 on: March 27, 2014, 03:47:46 PM »
I am not sure how you can't be moderate with snus.

Using several dosages of snus while simultaneously smoking a cigarrette seems rather unmoderate to me. I've heard of someone who did that. Not sure if it was an urban legend but wouldn't be anyhow suprised if the story was true.

I knew a few guys in college who did that, but with longcut dip.  That's some serious nicotine overkill.  They just needed a nicotine patch for the trifecta.
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Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #57 on: March 27, 2014, 03:53:13 PM »
Despite everyone discussing habit vs non habit etc...

Honestly James, considering you have an uncle with cancer, if I were in your shoes I would steer very clear of as many of the cancer causing things as is possible.

Even if there is a trigger, the 'likelyhood' of aquiring a cancer is genetic.  'Not all people have these dire consequences', which is true, but the odds increase if you have the genetic pre-disposition.


I personally just wouldn't take the risk over something that is not -doing- anything for my life in a positive way.
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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #58 on: March 27, 2014, 03:54:11 PM »
Despite everyone discussing habit vs non habit etc...

Honestly James, considering you have an uncle with cancer, if I were in your shoes I would steer very clear of as many of the cancer causing things as is possible.

Even if there is a trigger, the 'likelyhood' of aquiring a cancer is genetic.  'Not all people have these dire consequences', which is true, but the odds increase if you have the genetic pre-disposition.


I personally just wouldn't take the risk over something that is not -doing- anything for my life in a positive way.

I agree with Denise!
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

Offline orthonorm

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #59 on: March 27, 2014, 05:23:38 PM »
I am not sure how you can't be moderate with snus.

Using several dosages of snus while simultaneously smoking a cigarrette seems rather unmoderate to me. I've heard of someone who did that. Not sure if it was an urban legend but wouldn't be anyhow suprised if the story was true.

I knew a few guys in college who did that, but with longcut dip.  That's some serious nicotine overkill.  They just needed a nicotine patch for the trifecta.

That's folks with a high nicotine tolerance, which is set genetically primarily it seems. So some people can moderately use nicotine. I can't. It will stir up my need for nicotine. With dip / smoking, people will dose to get their fix. Which is why cigarettes with greater nicotine levels will hook you sooner, if you are hooked they are better for you, since you will smoke less to get your fix.

My brother tried using short cut dip to stop smoking and wound up doing both.

But yeah, if I were to smoke regular cigarettes, I could go a couple packs a day easily. With heavier cigarettes, I got by on fewer than 8 a day. Sometimes less. At which point, the dangers of smoking become difficult to determine save for those with underlying heart issue for whom any repeated increase in heart rate outside moderate physical activity is likely to be a bad thing.

My mother died like PtA's father did. But it wasn't smoking that killed her at 39. Based on my own problem and genetic makeup and other biometrics she was going to have a heart attack early in life. Maybe smoking reduce that life by some years. But it wasn't like she was going to reach 90 or even 60 if she hadn't.

Uncured tobacco is associated with higher risks of stuff like pancreatic cancer, since you swallow the juice rather than spitting it out, but such cancer is already so rare that the increase is, well, no big deal. Again, some have advocated its use as risk reduction much like the patch (which is not without risk, it still creates cardiac stimulus which isn't so great for some).

Being a shrill and uninformed nay sayer is going to do nothing to stop a young person from using tobacco. It that worked, none would use it. Make it illegal, cost prohibitive, or take my route, show nuance and tolerance. Helps abate that knee jerk reaction. And if you quite before 30, really it becomes difficult to determine harm. Not what people want to say, but a lot of people can pick up and put down smoking. Just like heavy drinking. Others can't. I would look at family history rather medical facts.

So if JamesR wants to play with tobacco and is worried about health concerns, I would suggest avoiding it, but if he wants real data, I would look toward those who use tobacco in my near family. If they are strung out and always quitting till they die, I would avoid it. But I also wouldn't make it such an all or nothing dire situation. If you believe this is a one time decision, when you might want to quit, you might really believe the nonsense, and think it is pointless to try.

I've seen that pattern in AA where they condition people in meeting over and over about not being able to have a single drink or two without utter and complete relapse. This speaks against nearly all literature on the subject and given the fact that most in AA are not alcoholics anymore but people badgered by their spouses and the courts to stop irresponsible drinking, they might have a drink and then *bam* they are off to the races, cause that is what that drinks means.

It doesn't.

So James, I would suggest not picking up tobacco but if you do, there are a variety of way to use which have varying risks and benefits.

More so, I think JamesR is mature enough to digest all this and make the appropriate decision.

Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #60 on: March 27, 2014, 05:26:56 PM »
and thus declareth Orthonorm.  Let us heed the font of all wisdom.
All opinions expressed by myself are quite tragically my own, and not those of any other poster or wall hangings.

Offline orthonorm

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #61 on: March 27, 2014, 05:27:09 PM »
Despite everyone discussing habit vs non habit etc...

Honestly James, considering you have an uncle with cancer, if I were in your shoes I would steer very clear of as many of the cancer causing things as is possible.

Even if there is a trigger, the 'likelyhood' of aquiring a cancer is genetic.  'Not all people have these dire consequences', which is true, but the odds increase if you have the genetic pre-disposition.


I personally just wouldn't take the risk over something that is not -doing- anything for my life in a positive way.

Stress reduction is arguably the best thing you can do. So maybe nicotine solves all stress for you. Who knows. What I do know, is that stress is the number killer. If not the only killer. So pick your stressors carefully. God knows I haven't.

Some smoke.
Some post their ideas about icons on the internet with grandiosity and self-righteousness to get their kick.

Not sure which is worse.

Offline orthonorm

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #62 on: March 27, 2014, 05:28:31 PM »
and thus declareth Orthonorm.  Let us heed the font of all wisdom.

You are a late comer and don't know this subject has been done to death. Not of all wisdom, but more than what flows around here usually.

So go back through the various tobacco threads and get caught up and come back.

Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #63 on: March 27, 2014, 05:31:21 PM »
and thus declareth Orthonorm.  Let us heed the font of all wisdom.

You are a late comer and don't know this subject has been done to death. Not of all wisdom, but more than what flows around here usually.

So go back through the various tobacco threads and get caught up and come back.


By that logic, no one should ever start a thread on any topic that has ever been discussed. 

How's that working out?

Forums and message boards have repeat threads.....people come and go...and the same topics come up.  If you have an issue with it...take it up with your boy....he started a new thread on it....when -clearly- its been discussed to death. 


All opinions expressed by myself are quite tragically my own, and not those of any other poster or wall hangings.

Offline PeterTheAleut

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #64 on: March 27, 2014, 05:38:18 PM »
and thus declareth Orthonorm.  Let us heed the font of all wisdom.

You are a late comer and don't know this subject has been done to death. Not of all wisdom, but more than what flows around here usually.
Usually what flows around here is your conceit and arrogance.
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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #65 on: March 27, 2014, 08:34:23 PM »
and thus declareth Orthonorm.  Let us heed the font of all wisdom.

You are a late comer and don't know this subject has been done to death. Not of all wisdom, but more than what flows around here usually.
Usually what flows around here is your conceit and arrogance.

More interesting is your jealousy of my beloved status here. PtA, one day, a young man will take a shine to you. You just gotta be a bit more open and honest about your life.

Offline Theophania

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #66 on: March 27, 2014, 08:39:39 PM »
Despite everyone discussing habit vs non habit etc...

Honestly James, considering you have an uncle with cancer, if I were in your shoes I would steer very clear of as many of the cancer causing things as is possible.

Even if there is a trigger, the 'likelyhood' of aquiring a cancer is genetic.  'Not all people have these dire consequences', which is true, but the odds increase if you have the genetic pre-disposition.


I personally just wouldn't take the risk over something that is not -doing- anything for my life in a positive way.

A very immature boy is trying to be manly. If he wants to chew chaw and hock into a spittoon, I say let him. I don't know why anyone bothers giving James advice anymore, he never listens.
It's common knowledge that you secretly want to be born in early 17th century Russia.  As a serf or a royal, I know not.  Chances are serf.

Offline DeniseDenise

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #67 on: March 27, 2014, 08:43:40 PM »
Despite everyone discussing habit vs non habit etc...

Honestly James, considering you have an uncle with cancer, if I were in your shoes I would steer very clear of as many of the cancer causing things as is possible.

Even if there is a trigger, the 'likelyhood' of aquiring a cancer is genetic.  'Not all people have these dire consequences', which is true, but the odds increase if you have the genetic pre-disposition.


I personally just wouldn't take the risk over something that is not -doing- anything for my life in a positive way.

A very immature boy is trying to be manly. If he wants to chew chaw and hock into a spittoon, I say let him. I don't know why anyone bothers giving James advice anymore, he never listens.


A very good point...just so long as the spittoon isn't a clear orange juice bottle and he isn't the one next to me in the airplane. ::)

(yes...I have had that happen....grossest 6 hours of my life)
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Offline Theophania

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #68 on: March 27, 2014, 08:47:12 PM »
We used to have a neighbor who would walk around our yard, shirtless, spitting his chaw  - it killed our grass!
It's common knowledge that you secretly want to be born in early 17th century Russia.  As a serf or a royal, I know not.  Chances are serf.

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #69 on: March 27, 2014, 09:33:53 PM »
Despite everyone discussing habit vs non habit etc...

Honestly James, considering you have an uncle with cancer, if I were in your shoes I would steer very clear of as many of the cancer causing things as is possible.

Even if there is a trigger, the 'likelyhood' of aquiring a cancer is genetic.  'Not all people have these dire consequences', which is true, but the odds increase if you have the genetic pre-disposition.


I personally just wouldn't take the risk over something that is not -doing- anything for my life in a positive way.

A very immature boy is trying to be manly. If he wants to chew chaw and hock into a spittoon, I say let him. I don't know why anyone bothers giving James advice anymore, he never listens.


Kelly, THANK YOU!!  :-*
« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 09:34:15 PM by LBK »
Am I posting? Or is it Schroedinger's Cat?

Offline LBK

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #70 on: March 27, 2014, 09:36:20 PM »
and thus declareth Orthonorm.  Let us heed the font of all wisdom.

You are a late comer and don't know this subject has been done to death. Not of all wisdom, but more than what flows around here usually.
Usually what flows around here is your conceit and arrogance.

More interesting is your jealousy of my beloved status here. PtA, one day, a young man will take a shine to you. You just gotta be a bit more open and honest about your life.

Yet again, orthonorm's hubris and puffery is on display. Grow up, orthonorm, and stop dragging down impressionable youngsters. You are not the center of the universe.
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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #71 on: March 27, 2014, 10:04:35 PM »
and thus declareth Orthonorm.  Let us heed the font of all wisdom.

You are a late comer and don't know this subject has been done to death. Not of all wisdom, but more than what flows around here usually.
Usually what flows around here is your conceit and arrogance.

More interesting is your jealousy of my beloved status here.
You give me nothing of which to be jealous, orthonorm.

PtA, one day, a young man will take a shine to you. You just gotta be a bit more open and honest about your life.
I don't want to be a mentor to someone I don't know.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2014, 10:05:39 PM by PeterTheAleut »
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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #72 on: March 27, 2014, 10:13:56 PM »
I am not sure how you can't be moderate with snus.

Using several dosages of snus while simultaneously smoking a cigarrette seems rather unmoderate to me. I've heard of someone who did that. Not sure if it was an urban legend but wouldn't be anyhow suprised if the story was true.

I knew a few guys in college who did that, but with longcut dip.  That's some serious nicotine overkill.  They just needed a nicotine patch for the trifecta.

That's folks with a high nicotine tolerance, which is set genetically primarily it seems. So some people can moderately use nicotine. I can't. It will stir up my need for nicotine. With dip / smoking, people will dose to get their fix. Which is why cigarettes with greater nicotine levels will hook you sooner, if you are hooked they are better for you, since you will smoke less to get your fix.

My brother tried using short cut dip to stop smoking and wound up doing both.

But yeah, if I were to smoke regular cigarettes, I could go a couple packs a day easily. With heavier cigarettes, I got by on fewer than 8 a day. Sometimes less. At which point, the dangers of smoking become difficult to determine save for those with underlying heart issue for whom any repeated increase in heart rate outside moderate physical activity is likely to be a bad thing.

My mother died like PtA's father did. But it wasn't smoking that killed her at 39. Based on my own problem and genetic makeup and other biometrics she was going to have a heart attack early in life. Maybe smoking reduce that life by some years. But it wasn't like she was going to reach 90 or even 60 if she hadn't.

Uncured tobacco is associated with higher risks of stuff like pancreatic cancer, since you swallow the juice rather than spitting it out, but such cancer is already so rare that the increase is, well, no big deal. Again, some have advocated its use as risk reduction much like the patch (which is not without risk, it still creates cardiac stimulus which isn't so great for some).

Being a shrill and uninformed nay sayer is going to do nothing to stop a young person from using tobacco. It that worked, none would use it. Make it illegal, cost prohibitive, or take my route, show nuance and tolerance. Helps abate that knee jerk reaction. And if you quite before 30, really it becomes difficult to determine harm. Not what people want to say, but a lot of people can pick up and put down smoking. Just like heavy drinking. Others can't. I would look at family history rather medical facts.

So if JamesR wants to play with tobacco and is worried about health concerns, I would suggest avoiding it, but if he wants real data, I would look toward those who use tobacco in my near family. If they are strung out and always quitting till they die, I would avoid it. But I also wouldn't make it such an all or nothing dire situation. If you believe this is a one time decision, when you might want to quit, you might really believe the nonsense, and think it is pointless to try.

I've seen that pattern in AA where they condition people in meeting over and over about not being able to have a single drink or two without utter and complete relapse. This speaks against nearly all literature on the subject and given the fact that most in AA are not alcoholics anymore but people badgered by their spouses and the courts to stop irresponsible drinking, they might have a drink and then *bam* they are off to the races, cause that is what that drinks means.

It doesn't.

So James, I would suggest not picking up tobacco but if you do, there are a variety of way to use which have varying risks and benefits.

More so, I think JamesR is mature enough to digest all this and make the appropriate decision.

Why thank you Jason.

Well, looking at my family history in regards to tobacco usage and my own health right now, taking into account the potential risks, I think that I'll merely use tobacco in moderation--perhaps a tin can every few weeks to a month, sometimes more, sometimes less. If I start seeing any negative signs, I'll cut back or quit. That being said though, I do have some addictive tendencies that I think I should be very cautious about when delving into a potentially addictive product.

My questions have been answered.

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #73 on: March 27, 2014, 11:15:34 PM »
We used to have a neighbor who would walk around our yard, shirtless, spitting his chaw  - it killed our grass!

Was it soft and fluffy lawn, or the tough, runner-based stuff like buffalo or kikuyu? If the latter .... ewwww.
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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #74 on: March 28, 2014, 01:18:19 AM »
I am not sure how you can't be moderate with snus.

Using several dosages of snus while simultaneously smoking a cigarrette seems rather unmoderate to me. I've heard of someone who did that. Not sure if it was an urban legend but wouldn't be anyhow suprised if the story was true.

I knew a few guys in college who did that, but with longcut dip.  That's some serious nicotine overkill.  They just needed a nicotine patch for the trifecta.

That's folks with a high nicotine tolerance, which is set genetically primarily it seems. So some people can moderately use nicotine. I can't. It will stir up my need for nicotine. With dip / smoking, people will dose to get their fix. Which is why cigarettes with greater nicotine levels will hook you sooner, if you are hooked they are better for you, since you will smoke less to get your fix.

My brother tried using short cut dip to stop smoking and wound up doing both.

But yeah, if I were to smoke regular cigarettes, I could go a couple packs a day easily. With heavier cigarettes, I got by on fewer than 8 a day. Sometimes less. At which point, the dangers of smoking become difficult to determine save for those with underlying heart issue for whom any repeated increase in heart rate outside moderate physical activity is likely to be a bad thing.

My mother died like PtA's father did. But it wasn't smoking that killed her at 39. Based on my own problem and genetic makeup and other biometrics she was going to have a heart attack early in life. Maybe smoking reduce that life by some years. But it wasn't like she was going to reach 90 or even 60 if she hadn't.

Uncured tobacco is associated with higher risks of stuff like pancreatic cancer, since you swallow the juice rather than spitting it out, but such cancer is already so rare that the increase is, well, no big deal. Again, some have advocated its use as risk reduction much like the patch (which is not without risk, it still creates cardiac stimulus which isn't so great for some).

Being a shrill and uninformed nay sayer is going to do nothing to stop a young person from using tobacco. It that worked, none would use it. Make it illegal, cost prohibitive, or take my route, show nuance and tolerance. Helps abate that knee jerk reaction. And if you quite before 30, really it becomes difficult to determine harm. Not what people want to say, but a lot of people can pick up and put down smoking. Just like heavy drinking. Others can't. I would look at family history rather medical facts.

So if JamesR wants to play with tobacco and is worried about health concerns, I would suggest avoiding it, but if he wants real data, I would look toward those who use tobacco in my near family. If they are strung out and always quitting till they die, I would avoid it. But I also wouldn't make it such an all or nothing dire situation. If you believe this is a one time decision, when you might want to quit, you might really believe the nonsense, and think it is pointless to try.

I've seen that pattern in AA where they condition people in meeting over and over about not being able to have a single drink or two without utter and complete relapse. This speaks against nearly all literature on the subject and given the fact that most in AA are not alcoholics anymore but people badgered by their spouses and the courts to stop irresponsible drinking, they might have a drink and then *bam* they are off to the races, cause that is what that drinks means.

It doesn't.

So James, I would suggest not picking up tobacco but if you do, there are a variety of way to use which have varying risks and benefits.

More so, I think JamesR is mature enough to digest all this and make the appropriate decision.

Why thank you Jason.

Well, looking at my family history in regards to tobacco usage and my own health right now, taking into account the potential risks, I think that I'll merely use tobacco in moderation--perhaps a tin can every few weeks to a month, sometimes more, sometimes less. If I start seeing any negative signs, I'll cut back or quit. That being said though, I do have some addictive tendencies that I think I should be very cautious about when delving into a potentially addictive product.

My questions have been answered.

I hope you got your college essay written.

 :angel:
The memory of God should be treasured in our hearts like the precious pearl mentioned in the Holy Gospel. Our life's goal should be to nurture and contemplate God always within, and never let it depart, for this steadfastness will drive demons away from us. - Paraphrased from St. Philotheus of Sinai
Writings from the Philokalia: On Prayer of the Heart,
Translated from the Russian by E. Kadloubovksy and G.E.H. Palmer, Faber and Faber, London, Boston, 1992 printing.

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #75 on: March 28, 2014, 08:00:10 AM »
Despite everyone discussing habit vs non habit etc...

Honestly James, considering you have an uncle with cancer, if I were in your shoes I would steer very clear of as many of the cancer causing things as is possible.

Even if there is a trigger, the 'likelyhood' of aquiring a cancer is genetic.  'Not all people have these dire consequences', which is true, but the odds increase if you have the genetic pre-disposition.


I personally just wouldn't take the risk over something that is not -doing- anything for my life in a positive way.

A very immature boy is trying to be manly. If he wants to chew chaw and hock into a spittoon, I say let him. I don't know why anyone bothers giving James advice anymore, he never listens.


A very good point...just so long as the spittoon isn't a clear orange juice bottle and he isn't the one next to me in the airplane. ::)

(yes...I have had that happen....grossest 6 hours of my life)

Ugh, not even the common decency of a Coke can?
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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #76 on: March 28, 2014, 08:20:44 AM »
Despite everyone discussing habit vs non habit etc...

Honestly James, considering you have an uncle with cancer, if I were in your shoes I would steer very clear of as many of the cancer causing things as is possible.

Even if there is a trigger, the 'likelyhood' of aquiring a cancer is genetic.  'Not all people have these dire consequences', which is true, but the odds increase if you have the genetic pre-disposition.


I personally just wouldn't take the risk over something that is not -doing- anything for my life in a positive way.

A very immature boy is trying to be manly. If he wants to chew chaw and hock into a spittoon, I say let him. I don't know why anyone bothers giving James advice anymore, he never listens.


A very good point...just so long as the spittoon isn't a clear orange juice bottle and he isn't the one next to me in the airplane. ::)

(yes...I have had that happen....grossest 6 hours of my life)

Ugh, not even the common decency of a Coke can?

No. I spent six hours trying to face into the aisle and pretend blindness.

It was nauseating. In the literal sense

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Offline Kerdy

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #77 on: March 28, 2014, 07:44:13 PM »
I'm enjoying a pipe as I type.  Occasionally I spend the extra money on a cigar.  I haven't dipped in over 20 years.

Offline Asteriktos

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #78 on: February 27, 2015, 11:43:45 PM »
You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.

This does not work. I have had a cross on my arm for 4-5 years, and almost all my upper arm covered in crosses for 4-5 months, and have observed no change whatsoever. JamesR should have let me publish results before starting his own experiment. Well, what can you do?

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Re: How Dangerous is Smokeless Tobacco
« Reply #79 on: February 28, 2015, 04:10:44 AM »
You're really on to something here. Tattoo to keep you from masturbating, chew to keep you from fornicating... it's a whole new world where you outsource your crosses. You're like a Christian entrepreneur or something.

This does not work. I have had a cross on my arm for 4-5 years, and almost all my upper arm covered in crosses for 4-5 months, and have observed no change whatsoever. JamesR should have let me publish results before starting his own experiment. Well, what can you do?

There is truth to ZZ's words and very well put. Of course what she doesnt understand is that is the very structure of all belief. Believing 24/7 is no fun. It's terribly exhausting.

I just can't beleieve that all these people can't connect to what JamesR writes large and openly here with their own contradictory pious nonsense. Because I can't, I pay someone to write these posts in which I do act as though others do lack such introspection.