Author Topic: Another Oriental Vestments Thread  (Read 1380 times)

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Offline CopticDeacon

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Another Oriental Vestments Thread
« on: March 23, 2014, 03:08:50 PM »
Greetings to all my orthodox fathers, brothers and sisters. I hope you are all benefiting from the the Great Fast. I was wondering, could a Coptic subdeacon wear a Syriac stole(epitrachelion?)? What about a Syriac subdeacon wearing a Coptic stole? Could any Copts also share what colors they've seen coptic deaconate/clergy wear that were out of the ordinary? Pictures would be awesome but beggars can't be choosers.

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Offline minasoliman

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Re: Another Oriental Vestments Thread
« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2014, 03:13:48 PM »
Greetings to all my orthodox fathers, brothers and sisters. I hope you are all benefiting from the the Great Fast. I was wondering, could a Coptic subdeacon wear a Syriac stole(epitrachelion?)? What about a Syriac subdeacon wearing a Coptic stole? Could any Copts also share what colors they've seen coptic deaconate/clergy wear that were out of the ordinary? Pictures would be awesome but beggars can't be choosers.

Pray for my weakness.

I am of the OPINION that you should blend in.  Whatever the chorus wears you wear.  Whatever your bishop allows, you wear.  And whatever your rank allows, wear.  Do not try to stand out or look extra "sheik" as I seem some readers/subdeacons might do.  And certainly no icons on your tunic.

With that said, these are all my opinions.  In theory, I suppose there might be nothing wrong depending on the views of your bishop and parish priests.
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Offline CopticDeacon

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Re: Another Oriental Vestments Thread
« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2014, 03:27:06 PM »
Minasoliman, I am a chanter. I wear altar socks and a white tunic with crosses and the regular coptic inscriptions on it. I'm rather traditional. So yes I agree with you. I'm just interested to know if there is something wrong with it. I was also wondering about the colors because one of my priests has a purple epitrachelion for Holy week and a red one he only wears in a rush for vespers when he asks me to get one(hehe). My bishop has a beautiful set of almost Greek style black vestments for holy week. From a distance I thought he was wearing a Byzantine Great Schema. The omophorion has a hood similar to one worn by St. Pope Kyrillos.
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Offline Antonious Nikolas

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Re: Another Oriental Vestments Thread
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2014, 03:31:23 PM »
I think Mina's right: it's at the discretion of your bishop, but it's best to wear "standard issue" vestments for your jurisdiction.  I knew an Ethiopian deacon once who took permission from his bishop to wear a Coptic style tonia and badrashil.
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Offline minasoliman

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Re: Another Oriental Vestments Thread
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2014, 03:33:49 PM »
Minasoliman, I am a chanter. I wear altar socks and a white tunic with crosses and the regular coptic inscriptions on it. I'm rather traditional. So yes I agree with you. I'm just interested to know if there is something wrong with it. I was also wondering about the colors because one of my priests has a purple epitrachelion for Holy week and a red one he only wears in a rush for vespers when he asks me to get one(hehe). My bishop has a beautiful set of almost Greek style black vestments for holy week. From a distance I thought he was wearing a Byzantine Great Schema. The omophorion has a hood similar to one worn by St. Pope Kyrillos.

HG Bishop David wears something like this?

Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline CopticDeacon

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Re: Another Oriental Vestments Thread
« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2014, 04:04:07 PM »
I've never seen him wear it before, but he was at my church yesterday for a women's spiritual day and I caught  him before hymns class wearing new holy week vestments (just to take some pictures briefly) with that kind of hood. I was pleasantly surprised.
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Offline minasoliman

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Re: Another Oriental Vestments Thread
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2014, 04:07:29 PM »
I've never seen him wear it before, but he was at my church yesterday for a women's spiritual day and I caught  him before hymns class wearing new holy week vestments (just to take some pictures briefly) with that kind of hood. I was pleasantly surprised.
that would be pleasant indeed. Take pictures ;)
Vain existence can never exist, for "unless the LORD builds the house, the builders labor in vain." (Psalm 127)

If the faith is unchanged and rock solid, then the gates of Hades never prevailed in the end.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: Another Oriental Vestments Thread
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2014, 04:12:21 PM »
I was wondering, could a Coptic subdeacon wear a Syriac stole(epitrachelion?)? What about a Syriac subdeacon wearing a Coptic stole?

I've never seen any formal "legislation", so what follows is largely deduction, opinion, and experience.  

The Syriac deacon's stole is called uroro.  The priest's stole is called, in the liturgical books, uroro rabo ("great stole") or hamnikho ("around the neck").  This last term is the equivalent of the Greek term epitrachelion, and refers more to how it's worn than to the garment itself (which is essentially one and the same stole).  

In all the Oriental traditions, the deacon's stole is essentially the same garment, a long strip of cloth, worn in various ways according to the rank of the wearer.  So in theory, I don't see anything wrong with a Coptic subdeacon wearing a Syriac deacon's stole: the difference in the garment itself is more in terms of cut (Syriac stoles are more narrow) and ornamentation.  The same would go for a Syriac subdeacon wearing a Coptic deacon's stole.      

Ought this to be done?  I suppose it depends on what the circumstance is.  Generally, I would wear the vestments of my own tradition, even when serving in another tradition.        
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Offline CopticDeacon

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Re: Another Oriental Vestments Thread
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2014, 04:20:36 PM »
Mor, thanks for the info and answer.

Mina, I don't know for sure if he will be with us for any days of Holy Week.... But he will Celebrate the Easter Liturgy with us! I'll be sure to get some pictures though. they might be on his facebook page the following week.
"I see the heavens opened up, and the Son of Man seated at the right hand of God"
-St. Stephen the Archdeacon and Protomartyr