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Author Topic: Bishop of Rome Dies  (Read 8005 times) Average Rating: 0
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cizinec
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« on: April 01, 2005, 02:39:11 PM »

Report is that the Pope has reposed.

I know some Orthodox here and a lot of Serbs did not have much to say about this pope, but I will say it anyway.

Ve-ìna Pamiatka.
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« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2005, 02:44:28 PM »

I know some Orthodox here and a lot of Serbs did not have much to say about this pope, but I will say it anyway.

Interesting line.  I just read the same.
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« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2005, 02:57:25 PM »

Lord have mercy
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« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2005, 03:00:48 PM »

Has this been confirmed yet?  CNN and Drudge were both reporting that Italian media had reported that, but CNN.com took down their headline about that, while Drudge is following conflicting reports out of Rome.  Is there any definite word anywhere?
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« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2005, 03:01:54 PM »

No, not confirmed. But it's only a matter of time...as it is for all of us.
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« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2005, 03:02:00 PM »

I know there is a long process that has to be followed before it can be confirmed by the Vatican.

Well, the Italian press is now saying that his brain and heart are still functioning.

That's what I get!
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« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2005, 03:03:15 PM »

I know there is a long process that has to be followed before it can be confirmed by the Vatican. 

Well, the Italian press is now saying that his brain and heart are still functioning.

That's what I get!

And CNN and Drudge are both reporting now that the Vatican has denied the report.
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« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2005, 03:06:50 PM »

Yeah, reports are that his "breathing is shallow" and "kidneys are failing".

If it hasn't already happened, it is probably close.
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« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2005, 03:10:30 PM »

not yet, but looking like it could happen at any moment
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« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2005, 03:19:23 PM »

I should get off one last attack against the Pope before I have to try to be nice during the time mourning Wink

But instead I'll say that he was a better pope than many we've had to deal with, and he has helped take a few steps down the long road to reconciliation between Old and New Rome, though it will be a long and difficult road if it is ever taken. Let us pray that his successor continues to take this relationship in the direction it has been going.
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« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2005, 03:22:37 PM »

He's not dead yet... watching the reciting of the rosary in St. Peter's square via Yahoo.
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« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2005, 03:28:51 PM »

BTW... getting onto Vatican's official website is nearly impossible right now.
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« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2005, 03:48:20 PM »

Well......All I have to say he was a great man of God and did so much to better the world....Memory Eternal
He must have also been very disheartened over Terri Schiavo's death the other day also.
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« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2005, 04:48:04 PM »

This was of the few men I recognised as being worthy of being called a true 'Pope', if he has truly reposed...

Alas, the next Pope might not be the same. And I have a fear he will be a Benedictine!
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« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2005, 04:54:17 PM »

Memory Eternal ...may Pope John Paul's  journey to his heavenly home be peaceful and may His successor be an equally robust man of faith !
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« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2005, 05:20:15 PM »

Considering this man almost became a martyr when a Turk attempted to assassinate him, I believe there is no doubting he is going to Heaven. Still, it is not ceritified whether he has died or not... weird.

As for the next Pope, the Catholic Saint Malachy (Irish Saint Maelmheadhoc O' Morgair of the 12th century) stated this man would be "Gloria D'Olivae", which could be translated that he's either a Benedictine, or will bring peace between the Churches. Nothing is certain yet, but St. Malachy has been right till now...

The Cardinals are a bit unclear about whether he is dead or not. The latest headlines:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4402323.stm
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« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2005, 09:11:04 PM »

Just as St. Paul prayed for his dear friend who died, pray for the soul of John Paul II.

2 Timothy 1:16 The Lord give mercy unto the house of Onesiphorus; for he oft refreshed me, and was not ashamed of my chain:
2 Timothy 1:17 But, when he was in Rome, he sought me out very diligently, and found me.
2 Timothy 1:18 The Lord grant unto him that he may find mercy of the Lord in that day: and in how many things he ministered unto me at Ephesus, thou knowest very well.

May peace be upon thee and with thy spirit.

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« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2005, 10:22:25 PM »

As of now--9:18 PM Eastern Time. he is still with us.  As a former RC I am really torn-- I am praying for him and only hope the next Bishop of Rome will continue his quest for unification.

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« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2005, 04:05:08 PM »

CNN and Fox are both now reporting that the Pope has died.

Lord have mercy.
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« Reply #19 on: April 02, 2005, 05:13:49 PM »

Kyrie Eleison.

May his memeory be eternal.

It seems it will already.
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« Reply #20 on: April 02, 2005, 05:16:06 PM »

Just as St. Paul prayed for his dear friend who died, pray for the soul of John Paul II.

2 Timothy 1:16 The Lord give mercy unto the house of Onesiphorus; for he oft refreshed me, and was not ashamed of my chain:
2 Timothy 1:17 But, when he was in Rome, he sought me out very diligently, and found me.
2 Timothy 1:18 The Lord grant unto him that he may find mercy of the Lord in that day: and in how many things he ministered unto me at Ephesus, thou knowest very well.

May peace be upon thee and with thy spirit.



Beautifully put, Matthew.  Memory Eternal.  Vichanya Pamyat.
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« Reply #21 on: April 02, 2005, 05:18:44 PM »

Vichnaia pamiat'

Eternal Memory


Truly a great Pope and a very humble man
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« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2005, 07:35:32 PM »

May the Lord grant Pope John Paul II eternal rest and peace... A wonder of a humble man who sought unification, righting of wrongs, peace and life through Jesus Christ.

May his memory be eternal...

In XC, Kizzy
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« Reply #23 on: April 02, 2005, 08:19:00 PM »

Should we start placing bets on who will be the next Pope now?
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« Reply #24 on: April 02, 2005, 10:18:09 PM »

Should we start placing bets on who will be the next Pope now?
Ntinos,
When your own spiritual father dies, how would you feel if people start placing bets on who will take his place on the same day?
The Divine Apostle tells us to:
"Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep." (Romans 12:15) .
The opposite of christian compassion is not hatred, it's cynicism.

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« Reply #25 on: April 03, 2005, 05:17:24 AM »

I didn't actually mean it literally, I meant it like "Should we start discussing on who the next Pope might be?". My intention was certainly not to make fun of the Pope's death.
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« Reply #26 on: April 03, 2005, 08:37:16 AM »

Eternal Memory
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« Reply #27 on: April 03, 2005, 08:37:39 AM »

I didn't actually mean it literally, I meant it like "Should we start discussing on who the next Pope might be?". My intention was certainly not to make fun of the Pope's death.
I didn't think you meant it literally, what I mean is, we should at least bury this Pope first and show some respect both for him and for those of our brothers and sisters who held him as their Spiritual Father. He will be mourned for nine days, and the conclave of Cardinals to elect the next pope will not meet for another 15-20 days- why should those of us who are not even Roman Catholics be in such a rush? It is the cynical, churchless media which is already discussing his replacement. To put it another way, if your own spiritual father died today, how would you feel if people started discussing who was going to replace him before you had even buried him?
I may not accept some of the doctrines of the Roman and Byzantine Catholics, but we are all still sons and daughters of Adam, and out of respect for them, and for one of the better men of goodwill who has just died, I think we should at least bury him first. Our Roman Catholic brothers and sisters are sorrowing today- let's share in their sorrow as good Christians should.
So in my opinion: No, we should not yet start discussing who the next Pope of Rome might be. It is not the time for this yet.
 
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« Reply #28 on: April 03, 2005, 09:22:54 AM »



It's our compassion for our fellow human beings that makes us Christian, and although the Orthodox Church and the Vatican under this Pope had an awkward, and at times tense, relationship, we should all still add a word for the soul of the Pope in our prayers tonight.

God rest the soul of Pope Jean-Paul.
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« Reply #29 on: April 03, 2005, 04:51:24 PM »


I didn't think you meant it literally, what I mean is, we should at least bury this Pope first and show some respect both for him and for those of our brothers and sisters who held him as their Spiritual Father. He will be mourned for nine days, and the conclave of Cardinals to elect the next pope will not meet for another 15-20 days- why should those of us who are not even Roman Catholics be in such a rush?  It is the cynical, churchless media which is already discussing his replacement. To put it another way, if your own spiritual father died today, how would you feel if people started discussing who was going to replace him before you had even buried him?
I may not accept some of the doctrines of the Roman and Byzantine Catholics, but we are all still sons and daughters of Adam, and out of respect for them, and for one of the better men of goodwill who has just died, I think we should at least bury him first. Our Roman Catholic brothers and sisters are sorrowing today- let's share in their sorrow as good Christians should.
So in my opinion: No, we should not yet start discussing who the next Pope of Rome might be. It is not the time for this yet.
 
George (Australia)

Check the prophecies of Malachy the Irish Catholic Saint about the next Popes, and you might be more worried than me about who is to become Pope. Yes, it is cruel, but I have worse fears about who the next Pope might be...
Also, you have the picture of an ascetic of Mount Athos in your profile. Do you know who that is? And do you really know what that man said about what is to come? Also, please read about St Kosmas the Aitolean's prophesies about who the two antichrists will be.
Maybe then you will be able to justify my fears about the next Pope, and his role in history.
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« Reply #30 on: April 03, 2005, 04:59:39 PM »

Posted on a secular website:

-------------------------------------------------------------

17830 Date: 2005-04-01 23:27:58
7 ( no email / no homepage) wrote:

Well, the Pope is fading. Which really, I do regret because he has been a pretty righteous dude expecially considering some of the pricks we had in centruies past.

And ya know...according to St. Malachy there are only 2 left.

http://www.catholic-pages.com/grabbag/malachy.asp

If someone pops the next one, we can get this show on the road. The Mayan calendar also ends in 2012.

Which leads me to the next point...
I will be starting a speed metal band called
"2 Popes Til Armageddon".

I anticipate some suped up Def Leppard covers.
 
-------------------------------------------------------------


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« Reply #31 on: April 03, 2005, 05:04:40 PM »

"+ƒ +Ü+æ+Ö+í+ƒ+ú +ô+æ+í +ò+ô+ô+ÑC"
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« Reply #32 on: April 03, 2005, 06:10:42 PM »

Before people start getting on the apocalyptic bandwagon, a few things to note are:
1) The "Prophecies of St. Malachy" supposedly written in the thirteenth century were not "discovered" until the sixteenth century.

2) The Mayan Calendar is a Pagan invention.

3) TomS's quote from another forum shows the callousness and foolishness of some who believe that God works to a schedule that we can somehow speed up by the killing of the next Pope of Rome.

4) The only prophesy Elder Paisios ever made about the coming of Antichrist was that the destruction of the a certain building (which I won't name because of possible loonies reading this) would herald his coming. He never said a Pope would be either Antichrist or the False Prophet.

5) St Kosmos Aitolos speaking during the Ottoman years of Greece was asked who Antichrist was and he replied- "the one is the Pope, and the other is the one who is on our head " (i.e., the Ottomans). He was speaking of the pope of his time, and the Ottomans of his time as "antichrists", but not "the" Antichrist who would come at the end of the age. In the same way, the Scriptures say that even at the beginning of the Church, many antichrists had already appeared. He also said that a future Pope would be the cause of a war- not that he would be the Antichrist.  St. Kosmos was protecting the faithful of Greece from possible conversion to Catholicism which was politically much stronger than Orthodoxy during the Ottoman years (and still is).

6)As an example of failed prophecies, we have those of the supposed visions of the "Virgin Mary" of Garabandal, Spain in the 1960's which were also apocalyptic in nature. According to these prophecies, there would only be three more Popes after John XXIII before the end of the age (he died in 1963) and a miracle would take place at Garabandal which would be seen by the Pope to confirm their validity. Well, the third Pope has just died, and none of them witnessed any miracle at Garabandal. Do a google of websites about Garabandal in the next few days, and I bet you any money they all start trying to explain away this failed prophecy.

So why are you joining the protestant evangelicals in the "countdown to apocalypse" when:
a) No sign foretold by an Orthodox saint that heralds the appearance of antichrist has yet appeared.
b) It is Roman Catholic and Pagan prophesies which seem to concern you.

If I may speak literally as a "devil's advocate": If I were the devil, and wished to pave the way for Antichrist, what better way to bring discredit to the Church would there be than to dupe her members into believing false prophesies which turn out to be unfulfilled, and so make them look like fools? Who in the world will believe us then?

George (Australia)
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« Reply #33 on: April 03, 2005, 06:43:50 PM »

Before people start getting on the apocalyptic bandwagon, a few things to note are:
1) The "Prophecies of St. Malachy" supposedly written in the thirteenth century were not "discovered" until the sixteenth century.

2) The Mayan Calendar is a Pagan invention.

3) TomS's quote from another forum shows the callousness and foolishness of some who believe that God works to a schedule that we can somehow speed up by the killing of the next Pope of Rome.

4) The only prophesy Elder Paisios ever made about the coming of Antichrist was that the destruction of the a certain building (which I won't name because of possible loonies reading this) would herald his coming. He never said a Pope would be either Antichrist or the False Prophet.

5) St Kosmos Aitolos speaking during the Ottoman years of Greece was asked who Antichrist was and he replied- "the one is the Pope, and the other is the one who is on our head " (i.e., the Ottomans). He was speaking of the pope of his time, and the Ottomans of his time as "antichrists", but not "the" Antichrist who would come at the end of the age. In the same way, the Scriptures say that even at the beginning of the Church, many antichrists had already appeared. He also said that a future Pope would be the cause of a war- not that he would be the Antichrist.  St. Kosmos was protecting the faithful of Greece from possible conversion to Catholicism which was politically much stronger than Orthodoxy during the Ottoman years (and still is).

6)As an example of failed prophecies, we have those of the supposed visions of the "Virgin Mary" of Garabandal, Spain in the 1960's which were also apocalyptic in nature. According to these prophecies, there would only be three more Popes after John XXIII before the end of the age (he died in 1963) and a miracle would take place at Garabandal which would be seen by the Pope to confirm their validity. Well, the third Pope has just died, and none of them witnessed any miracle at Garabandal. Do a google of websites about Garabandal in the next few days, and I bet you any money they all start trying to explain away this failed prophecy.

So why are you joining the protestant evangelicals in the "countdown to apocalypse" when:
a) No sign foretold by an Orthodox saint that heralds the appearance of antichrist has yet appeared.
b) It is Roman Catholic and Pagan prophesies which seem to concern you.

If I may speak literally as a "devil's advocate": If I were the devil, and wished to pave the way for Antichrist, what better way to bring discredit to the Church would there be than to dupe her members into believing false prophesies which turn out to be unfulfilled, and so make them look like fools? Who in the world will believe us then?

George (Australia)

Because I'm from Aitolea!!!
No, you are wrong. St Kosmas the Aitolean did not speak of the Ottoman Turks. You are missing part of the phrase: "The first antichrist is the Pope in Rome, and the second is he who is in your head. Without my saying his name you understand him. You should curse the Pope, for he shall be the cause. He is referring to a person, when saying the second antichrist. He did not say "on our heads", he said +¦-Ã -ä-î-é -Ç++-Ã  +¦+»+++¦+¦ -â-ä++ +¦+¦-Ã¥+¼+++¦ +++¦-é, which is more often translated as "in our heads", than "on our heads".

Quote
“++ +¦++-ä+»-ç-ü+¦-â-ä++-é ++ +¡+++¦-é +¦+»+++¦+¦ ++ -Ç+¼-Ç+¦-é +¦+¦+¦ ++ +¡-ä+¦-ü++-é +¦+»+++¦+¦ +¦-à -ä-î-é -Ç++-à  +¦+»+++¦+¦ -â-ä++ +¦+¦-Ã¥+¼+++¦ +++¦-é. +º-ë-ü+»-é +++¦ +¦+»-Ç-ë -ä++ -î+++++++¼ -ä++-à , -ä++ +¦+¦-ä+¦+++¦+¦+¦+»+++¦-ä+¦”-+ +¦+¦+¦ -â-à +++¦-ç+»+¦+¦+¦: “+ñ++++ +á+¼-Ç+¦ +++¦ +¦+¦-ä+¦-ü+¼-â+++¦, +¦+¦-î-ä+¦ +¦-à -ä-î-é +++¦ +¦+»+++¦+¦ ++ +¦+¦-ä+»+¦”

About Elder Paissios: No, he did not say anything about a Pope, but he was certainly talking about the Antichrist a lot. Take a look at this, and you will understand what I mean: http://oag.ru/icon/paissios.html
He is crystal clear: the Antichrist is coming! And by the way, that barcode you see stamped on the material world, is really 6-6-6 (it's not the stamp of the Antichrist yet). Call me mad, but it's the forrunner of the stamp on humans.


About your a) and b)
a') Check out this dude: http://members.cox.net/orthodoxheritage/Starets%20Lavrentii.htm
and this dude as well: http://www.russia-hc.ru/eng/religion/plegacy/instserv.cfm
and the whole site as well: http://www.geocities.com/kitezhgrad/prophets/
and the site I mentioned about Elder Paissios.
b') I'm Greek Orthodox, I don't give a coin for Catholic and/or pagan prophecies. I just happen to give a coin for Orthodox prophecies, and from what I see, things are not that good. Yes, I'm aware people don't like to hear the end of the world is coming because they are selfish and would rather live their lives the way they want it and never see God's plan being manifested, but God doesn't really care. A Prophecy won't ask you before being fulfilled...

As for the failed prophecies, please refer to Orthodox ones, and we'll see about whether it's failed or not.

Finally, I'm not joining any semi-heretical group calling itself christian or whatever in the "countdown to apocalypse" when neither a) or b) of yours seem to be true. I'm on my own in this, and yes I'm mad, and yes, I still believe in Jesus the Orthodox way, and never will quit doing so.

And by the way, the prophecies of Elder Paissios are in www.rel.gr, an official site of the Greek Orthodox Church of Greece, which means the Church expects them to come out. I'm not just talking eschatology here. And the end has to come, sometime!  :flame:
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« Reply #34 on: April 04, 2005, 06:21:48 AM »

b') I'm Greek Orthodox, I don't give a coin for Catholic and/or pagan prophecies.
Is that so?
How then do you explain this post of yours?
And please don't call me "dude"...my name is George.
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« Reply #35 on: April 04, 2005, 06:49:37 AM »

I wasn't calling you "dude", I was calling the Archimandrite referring to the Antichrist. And for the post, the fact that the prophecy is from a Catholic Saint shouldn't get me prejudiced against him. Also, I do not believe the specific prophesy to be completely true, I'm treating it with caution. IF it comes true, then there might seriously be some truth behind it.

And you know what? Most Catholic prophecies seem to be obsessed with some weird 3-day large scale catastrophe, half of which believe it is human made and the other half believing it is God's vengeance. And our fathers have said nothing of it. Does that make up for my mentioning St. Malachy's prophecy?

Out of the whole reply, the only thing you could quote is this?
Quote
b') I'm Greek Orthodox, I don't give a coin for Catholic and/or pagan prophecies.

Don't the orthodox fathers' prophecies mean anything to you at all? It is much more important that your getting to prove to me I'm contradicting myself.
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« Reply #36 on: April 04, 2005, 06:58:03 AM »

Ntinos and George,

Here's another and interesting take on the 'prophecies' of Malachy from the Orthodox (ROCOR) priest Fr. Andrew Phillips from Felixstowe in England. He doesn't necessarily accept the prophecies as true and he seems to suggest that, even if true they should be interpreted from a Roman Catholic standpoint. His conclusions as to any possible meaning that might be found in the 'prophecies' is rather more optimistic than your view, Ntinos:

http://www.orthodoxengland.btinternet.co.uk/lastpope.htm

Fr. Andrew is probably more optimistic in general than I am about future prospects for reconciliation between the Orthodox and Roman Catholic churches, but I sincerely hope that the future would prove his optimism to be closer to reality than my own pessimism. Personally, I think that it is better to be prepared for the end whenever it might come than to become obsessed with apocalyptic prophecies and constantly try to work out when the end will come. We simply cannot and will not know until it is here, as the Scriptures make all too plain. Such unhealthy obsessions are best left to those millenarian Protestant groups that place so much stock in them, after all they really aren't going to help anyone achieve their salvation.

James
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« Reply #37 on: April 04, 2005, 07:00:29 AM »

What really gets me anxious is the fact that St Malachy's prophecy about two more Popes left till the end of the World seem to coincide with Elder Paissios' warnings about the 'demonic storm' he frequently mentioned...
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« Reply #38 on: April 04, 2005, 08:17:42 AM »

What really gets me anxious is the fact that St Malachy's prophecy about two more Popes left till the end of the World seem to coincide with Elder Paissios' warnings about the 'demonic storm' he frequently mentioned...
Dear Ntinos,
Firstly, why do you keep bringing up a non-Orthodox "prophesy"? Malachy is not an Orthodox Saint. And even if he were an Orthodox Saint, I would still doubt a "prophesy" attributed to him which was only "discovered" in AD 1595- four hundred years after he died.
Secondly, why is this discussion taking place in this thread?
Thirdly, your translation of the quote from St. Kosmas you posted is wrong, and it is also taken out of context. It is actually a bad combination of two seperate prophecies.
“++ +¦++-ä+»-ç-ü+¦-â-ä++-é ++ +¡+++¦-é +¦+»+++¦+¦ ++ -Ç+¼-Ç+¦-é +¦+¦+¦ ++ +¡-ä+¦-ü++-é +¦+»+++¦+¦ +¦-à -ä-î-é -Ç++-à  +¦+»+++¦+¦ -â-ä++ +¦+¦-Ã¥+¼+++¦ +++¦-é. +º-ë-ü+»-é +++¦ +¦+»-Ç-ë -ä++ -î+++++++¼ -ä++-à , -ä++ +¦+¦-ä+¦+++¦+¦+¦+»+++¦-ä+¦”-+
translates as:
"One antichrist is the pope and the other is he who is on our head....(note the plural)....without my saying his name, you understand."
St. Kosmas would preach his sermons in village squares and other public places in what is now Greece, but was called part of "Rumeli" ("The Land of the Romans") by the Turks during the Ottoman rule. He could not publically name the Pasha as another "antichrist", so he makes reference to him as "the one who is on our (collective) head." St Kosmas clearly speaks of two antichrists here. So he is using the word antichrist in the same way that the Apostle St. John uses the word in the context of "many antichrists":
Quote
Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is how we know it is the last hour. (1 John 2:18)
What you consider to be a continuation of the above prophesy of St. Kosmos is actually another prophesy spoken in another place. The Saint foretold the coming wars which would effect the 'Romaiii' ("The Romans"- ie, Orthodox Christians) as well as the civil war in what would later be called Greece. It was in the context of this that he said:" “+ñ++++ +á+¼-Ç+¦ +++¦ +¦+¦-ä+¦-ü+¼-â+++¦, +¦+¦-î-ä+¦ +¦-à -ä-î-é +++¦ +¦+»+++¦+¦ ++ +¦+¦-ä+»+¦” " which translates :"You should curse the pope because he will be the cause" (i.e. of the war).
The words you quote which join these two prophesies, ie."+¦+¦+¦ -â-à +++¦-ç+»+¦+¦+¦:" ("and he continues") are an editorial addition- and a poor one at best since it has caused such confusion.
This is not about my "proving you to be contradicting yourself". It's about my being conerned that you don't fall into the same trap that so many protestants have fallen into. This, unfortunately, has become a common error for many Orthodox- especiially since the advent of the Internet. I have noticed that everytime a certain "prophetic" issue becomes fashionable among protestants- it soon becomes fashionable among the Orthodox- like 'bar codes'- but that's another issue.

George (Australia)
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« Reply #39 on: April 04, 2005, 08:49:20 AM »

1) Yes, I know he is not an Orthodox Saint, but neither is the Pope an Orthodox leader. We don't have prophecies of our own about who the next Pope will be, and it would probably be better if the Catholics spoke of their leader. Ehm, you're not suggesting St. Malachy lived till 1591, are you? He was born in the 11th century!
2) You're right in this, we should drop it in this thread and start a new thread or drop the topic completely.
3) I took the prophesy from this http://www.patrokosmas.gr/agioskosmas.asp site about St. Kosmas. The priest in the site has those sentences as one prophesy, which consists of these sentences. My translation is alright, I fortunately have the Certificate of Prophiciency in English from both Cambridge and Michigan Universities, and happen to be a greek by birth.

Why would St. Kosmas say that the Pope is the antichrist, anyway? The RC Church is not the only church that tore itself apart from the Apostolic Church...

I'm not basing my belief that a lot of events mentioned in the Revalations book will come soon on the prophesies of a Catholic Saint, or Mayan prophecies or whatever else. I'm basing this on Elder Paissios' predictions. Since you seem to know some Greek, check out these pages:
http://www.rel.gr/index.php?rpage=paisios&rpage2=showkeimeno.php&link_id=16
http://www.rel.gr/index.php?rpage=paisios&rpage2=showkeimeno.php&link_id=13

Elder Paissios is not recognised officially as a Saint by the Church, since he only recently died (1994) and usually there must be many years before the Church recognises a man as a Saint. However, this man was a great ascetic, and recently did have the prophetic gift, according to many people who visited him.

Note: I'm not a Protestant and never will be. Please stop referring to me that I'm becoming a protestant/joining the protestant groups just because I believe we're close to the end. I have a mind and judgement of my own, and this is what my judgement tells me.
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« Reply #40 on: April 04, 2005, 09:42:07 AM »

I wasn't calling you "dude", I was calling the Archimandrite referring to the Antichrist.
Thank you for clearing that up, but I would still advise you against calling an Orthodox Archimandrite "dude" in a public forum. Wink
You see how easy it is to misunderstand the meaning of the written word? Wink

1) Yes, I know he is not an Orthodox Saint, but neither is the Pope an Orthodox leader. We don't have prophecies of our own about who the next Pope will be, and it would probably be better if the Catholics spoke of their leader. Ehm, you're not suggesting St. Malachy lived till 1591, are you? He was born in the 11th century!
No: what I am suggesting is that his so-called "prophesies" are a fraud concocted in the sixteenth century.

2) You're right in this, we should drop it in this thread and start a new thread or drop the topic completely.
I'm happy to do either

My translation is alright, I fortunately have the Certificate of Prophiciency in English from both Cambridge and Michigan Universities, and happen to be a greek by birth.
Then could you please explain why St. Kosmos uses the plural possesive pronoun "+++¦-é" ("our") in reference to the singular noun "+¦+¦-å+¼+++¦" ('head")- ie: "Our head"- not "Our heads" as you translate it.

Why would St. Kosmas say that the Pope is the antichrist, anyway? The RC Church is not the only church that tore itself apart from the Apostolic Church...
Because the Pope is called the "Vicar of Christ". At the end of the Divine Liturgy, we recieve the "Antidoron" (literally: "Instead of the gifts") It is blessed bread given instead of the Gifts of Holy Communion- but it is not Holy Communion. So the prefix "Anti" means both "Instead of" as well as "opposed to". In the same way "antichrist" means both "Instead of Christ"- that is, one who is not Christ, but who resembles Him or acts as though he were Christ as well as meaning "Opposed to Christ." From a Greek linguistic stance, anyone who claims to be the "Vicar of Christ" is an "antichrist", and from an Orthodox Christian perspective, anyone who claims to be the "Vicar of Christ" has usurped Christ's position as Head of the Church, and is therefore also "antichrist"- since a "vicar" only operates when the person he represents is absent- and Christ is never absent from the Church. I think this is what St. Kosmos meant.

I'm basing this on Elder Paissios' predictions. Since you seem to know some Greek, check out these pages:
I am also a "Romios" like you- that's why I know Greek.
Thank you for the references, I have read some of these prophesies of Elder Paisios before. I also met him when he came to Australia- he had fallen asleep before I got to visit him in Greece- (I'm heading back there this September). I don't get the same sense of the immenent arrival of the Antichrist which you seem to get from his prophesies. We all know that the Antichrist will come one day, as will Our Lord Himself. But the Blessed Elder Paisios also speaks of many other things which will take place- for example, the return of the City (Constantinople) and Cyprus to Orthodoxy and to us. These things must surely take place before the Antichrist comes, and given the current situations of Constantinople and Cyprus, I can't see it as happening immediatley.

George (Australia)
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« Reply #41 on: April 04, 2005, 10:18:05 AM »

Memory Eternal to John Paul II, Patriarch of Rome and the West.
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« Reply #42 on: April 04, 2005, 10:36:06 AM »

Patriarch of Rome and the West.
We cannot simply invent titles for people like this, He may have been "Patriarch of Rome", but who made him "Patriarch of the West"? So who is the Patriarch of the millions of Roman and Byzantine Catholics who live in the East?- Bartholemew?
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« Reply #43 on: April 04, 2005, 11:08:31 AM »

Oh for crying out loud, it was just a title I read applied to the Bishop of Rome. Don't get your cossack in a bunch. I'm sorry if the title was used in error, everyone.
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« Reply #44 on: April 04, 2005, 11:28:51 AM »

Oh for crying out loud, it was just a title I read applied to the Bishop of Rome. Don't get your cossack in a bunch. I'm sorry if the title was used in error, everyone.
Columba,
I say this only because the Earth is round, so "East vs. West" makes no sense- as does this current hostility between "East and West". We've divided the world along imaginary geographical  lines and are fighting wars and killing each other over them. Just look at hostility in the thread on this forum entitled "Anti-Western Orthodoxy". Anyone reading it would think we all believe the Earth to be flat! It's always astounded me that people call Australia (where I live) a "Western Country", and on a global polictial level we are part of the "Western Alliance" when anyone can see from a map of the world that we are geographically much closer to India than the Americas. Clearly, "Western" means something other than "Geographically Western" for people.
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