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Author Topic: How many weekday services are possible?  (Read 636 times) Average Rating: 0
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« on: March 18, 2014, 04:12:45 PM »

One of the things I think is unfortunate about Eastern Orthodoxy is that it's impractical to perform the Divine Liturgy regularly on weekdays, as is common in the Western Rite, albeit from a certain perspective; the invention of the Low Mass has been a decidedly two-edged sword. Regardless, I do think weekday services help to remind people that religion is not just something one does in allocated weekend timeslots, even if there is a Saturday evening service as well. Speaking also from personal experience, I've found that in times when I've felt greatly disturbed or in crisis, it has been a great help to not have to wait for the weekend to go to church and try to refocus myself on Christ, or ask His help.
So how many weekday services do you think are feasible in an Eastern (/Oriental) Orthodox church? The most I've ever heard of is one parish that does Matins every morning, with a Presanctified Liturgy on Wednesday evenings in Great Lent.
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« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2014, 04:16:19 PM »

Monasteries have services several times a day. Some celebrate a liturgy every day
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« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2014, 04:24:55 PM »

One of the things I think is unfortunate about Eastern Orthodoxy is that it's impractical to perform the Divine Liturgy regularly on weekdays, as is common in the Western Rite, albeit from a certain perspective; the invention of the Low Mass has been a decidedly two-edged sword. Regardless, I do think weekday services help to remind people that religion is not just something one does in allocated weekend timeslots, even if there is a Saturday evening service as well. Speaking also from personal experience, I've found that in times when I've felt greatly disturbed or in crisis, it has been a great help to not have to wait for the weekend to go to church and try to refocus myself on Christ, or ask His help.
So how many weekday services do you think are feasible in an Eastern (/Oriental) Orthodox church? The most I've ever heard of is one parish that does Matins every morning, with a Presanctified Liturgy on Wednesday evenings in Great Lent.
The idea that the only service is the Mass / Liturgy is a regrettable late development inCatholicism.

It is possible to serve multiple rich services every day including Matins, Vespers, the Hours, Akathists, Molebens, Panikhidas, etc.   The prayer content is so rich and varied and provides a theological as well as devotional education.  These services are limited only by the physical and time limitations on the priest / parish. 
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« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2014, 04:27:59 PM »

One of the things I think is unfortunate about Eastern Orthodoxy is that it's impractical to perform the Divine Liturgy regularly on weekdays, as is common in the Western Rite, albeit from a certain perspective; the invention of the Low Mass has been a decidedly two-edged sword. Regardless, I do think weekday services help to remind people that religion is not just something one does in allocated weekend timeslots, even if there is a Saturday evening service as well. Speaking also from personal experience, I've found that in times when I've felt greatly disturbed or in crisis, it has been a great help to not have to wait for the weekend to go to church and try to refocus myself on Christ, or ask His help.
So how many weekday services do you think are feasible in an Eastern (/Oriental) Orthodox church? The most I've ever heard of is one parish that does Matins every morning, with a Presanctified Liturgy on Wednesday evenings in Great Lent.

We serve Matins every day in Lent, presanctified on Fridays and some Wednesdays, Akathists and or liturgies for feasts on the days of saints who are significant to us or whose relics we have, Vesperal liturgies or vespers/liturgies on the Eve and day of various feasts, liturgies on Soul Saturdays, occasionally Great Complines, etc.   
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« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2014, 04:58:33 PM »

2 times everyday (vespers, matins)
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« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2014, 05:08:20 PM »

One of the things I think is unfortunate about Eastern Orthodoxy is that it's impractical to perform the Divine Liturgy regularly on weekdays, as is common in the Western Rite, albeit from a certain perspective; the invention of the Low Mass has been a decidedly two-edged sword. Regardless, I do think weekday services help to remind people that religion is not just something one does in allocated weekend timeslots, even if there is a Saturday evening service as well. Speaking also from personal experience, I've found that in times when I've felt greatly disturbed or in crisis, it has been a great help to not have to wait for the weekend to go to church and try to refocus myself on Christ, or ask His help.
So how many weekday services do you think are feasible in an Eastern (/Oriental) Orthodox church? The most I've ever heard of is one parish that does Matins every morning, with a Presanctified Liturgy on Wednesday evenings in Great Lent.
The idea that the only service is the Mass / Liturgy is a regrettable late development inCatholicism.

It is possible to serve multiple rich services every day including Matins, Vespers, the Hours, Akathists, Molebens, Panikhidas, etc.   The prayer content is so rich and varied and provides a theological as well as devotional education.  These services are limited only by the physical and time limitations on the priest / parish. 

That's a Catholic development? I'm pretty sure they have all the Divine Offices we do.

One reason your average Orthodox parish priest doesn't serve Liturgy every day is that he would not be permitted to have sexual relations with his wife ever (since you shouldn't have relations the night before and after receiving Communion). Since Catholic priests are celibate (supposedly), they  don't have that constraint (though I also don't think they are so strict about avoiding relations around the time of Communion).
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« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2014, 05:18:49 PM »

One of the things I think is unfortunate about Eastern Orthodoxy is that it's impractical to perform the Divine Liturgy regularly on weekdays, as is common in the Western Rite, albeit from a certain perspective; the invention of the Low Mass has been a decidedly two-edged sword. Regardless, I do think weekday services help to remind people that religion is not just something one does in allocated weekend timeslots, even if there is a Saturday evening service as well. Speaking also from personal experience, I've found that in times when I've felt greatly disturbed or in crisis, it has been a great help to not have to wait for the weekend to go to church and try to refocus myself on Christ, or ask His help.
So how many weekday services do you think are feasible in an Eastern (/Oriental) Orthodox church? The most I've ever heard of is one parish that does Matins every morning, with a Presanctified Liturgy on Wednesday evenings in Great Lent.
The idea that the only service is the Mass / Liturgy is a regrettable late development inCatholicism.

It is possible to serve multiple rich services every day including Matins, Vespers, the Hours, Akathists, Molebens, Panikhidas, etc.   The prayer content is so rich and varied and provides a theological as well as devotional education.  These services are limited only by the physical and time limitations on the priest / parish. 

That's a Catholic development? I'm pretty sure they have all the Divine Offices we do.

One reason your average Orthodox parish priest doesn't serve Liturgy every day is that he would not be permitted to have sexual relations with his wife ever (since you shouldn't have relations the night before and after receiving Communion). Since Catholic priests are celibate (supposedly), they  don't have that constraint (though I also don't think they are so strict about avoiding relations around the time of Communion).

They have them but they don't use them.  Low mass, which was originally a concession for a second daily service for the private intentions of the clergy, has completely supplanted the use of the daily office in most parish life.  How often do you hear of Catholics going to matins or vespers or gathering to celebrate compline on the eves of feasts?   No, instead they have morning masses, evening masses, three and four masses a day sometimes.  Entirely unnecessary. 
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« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2014, 05:20:19 PM »

One of the things I think is unfortunate about Eastern Orthodoxy is that it's impractical to perform the Divine Liturgy regularly on weekdays, as is common in the Western Rite, albeit from a certain perspective; the invention of the Low Mass has been a decidedly two-edged sword. Regardless, I do think weekday services help to remind people that religion is not just something one does in allocated weekend timeslots, even if there is a Saturday evening service as well. Speaking also from personal experience, I've found that in times when I've felt greatly disturbed or in crisis, it has been a great help to not have to wait for the weekend to go to church and try to refocus myself on Christ, or ask His help.
So how many weekday services do you think are feasible in an Eastern (/Oriental) Orthodox church? The most I've ever heard of is one parish that does Matins every morning, with a Presanctified Liturgy on Wednesday evenings in Great Lent.
The idea that the only service is the Mass / Liturgy is a regrettable late development inCatholicism.

It is possible to serve multiple rich services every day including Matins, Vespers, the Hours, Akathists, Molebens, Panikhidas, etc.   The prayer content is so rich and varied and provides a theological as well as devotional education.  These services are limited only by the physical and time limitations on the priest / parish. 

That's a Catholic development? I'm pretty sure they have all the Divine Offices we do.

One reason your average Orthodox parish priest doesn't serve Liturgy every day is that he would not be permitted to have sexual relations with his wife ever (since you shouldn't have relations the night before and after receiving Communion). Since Catholic priests are celibate (supposedly), they  don't have that constraint (though I also don't think they are so strict about avoiding relations around the time of Communion).

They have them but they don't use them.  Low mass, which was originally a concession for a second daily service for the private intentions of the clergy, has completely supplanted the use of the daily office in most parish life.  How often do you hear of Catholics going to matins or vespers or gathering to celebrate compline on the eves of feasts?   No, instead they have morning masses, evening masses, three and four masses a day sometimes.  Entirely unnecessary. 

Actually yes you have a point. I forgot about the multiple daily masses. Outrage!
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« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2014, 05:22:59 PM »

One of the things I think is unfortunate about Eastern Orthodoxy is that it's impractical to perform the Divine Liturgy regularly on weekdays, as is common in the Western Rite, albeit from a certain perspective; the invention of the Low Mass has been a decidedly two-edged sword. Regardless, I do think weekday services help to remind people that religion is not just something one does in allocated weekend timeslots, even if there is a Saturday evening service as well. Speaking also from personal experience, I've found that in times when I've felt greatly disturbed or in crisis, it has been a great help to not have to wait for the weekend to go to church and try to refocus myself on Christ, or ask His help.
So how many weekday services do you think are feasible in an Eastern (/Oriental) Orthodox church? The most I've ever heard of is one parish that does Matins every morning, with a Presanctified Liturgy on Wednesday evenings in Great Lent.
The idea that the only service is the Mass / Liturgy is a regrettable late development inCatholicism.

It is possible to serve multiple rich services every day including Matins, Vespers, the Hours, Akathists, Molebens, Panikhidas, etc.   The prayer content is so rich and varied and provides a theological as well as devotional education.  These services are limited only by the physical and time limitations on the priest / parish. 

That's a Catholic development? I'm pretty sure they have all the Divine Offices we do.

One reason your average Orthodox parish priest doesn't serve Liturgy every day is that he would not be permitted to have sexual relations with his wife ever (since you shouldn't have relations the night before and after receiving Communion). Since Catholic priests are celibate (supposedly), they  don't have that constraint (though I also don't think they are so strict about avoiding relations around the time of Communion).

They have them but they don't use them.  Low mass, which was originally a concession for a second daily service for the private intentions of the clergy, has completely supplanted the use of the daily office in most parish life.  How often do you hear of Catholics going to matins or vespers or gathering to celebrate compline on the eves of feasts?   No, instead they have morning masses, evening masses, three and four masses a day sometimes.  Entirely unnecessary. 

Actually yes you have a point. I forgot about the multiple daily masses. Outrage!

I'm sure their daily office has lots of beautiful and instructive devotions to saints but I bet only the most devout ever have an opportunity to hear or to pray them.   Instead, quick noontime masses of 50 minutes or less are offered.  I find that deeply regrettable.   The Eucharist is central to our church life but there are a host of other prayers and devotions which foster a broader and deeper sense of communion when used in conjunction with regular Eucharistic services.   
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« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2014, 05:59:33 PM »

So how many weekday services do you think are feasible in an Eastern (/Oriental) Orthodox church? The most I've ever heard of is one parish that does Matins every morning, with a Presanctified Liturgy on Wednesday evenings in Great Lent.

It is possible to serve multiple rich services every day including Matins, Vespers, the Hours, Akathists, Molebens, Panikhidas, etc.   The prayer content is so rich and varied and provides a theological as well as devotional education.  These services are limited only by the physical and time limitations on the priest / parish. 

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« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2014, 06:32:56 PM »

One of the things I think is unfortunate about Eastern Orthodoxy is that it's impractical to perform the Divine Liturgy regularly on weekdays, as is common in the Western Rite, albeit from a certain perspective; the invention of the Low Mass has been a decidedly two-edged sword. Regardless, I do think weekday services help to remind people that religion is not just something one does in allocated weekend timeslots, even if there is a Saturday evening service as well. Speaking also from personal experience, I've found that in times when I've felt greatly disturbed or in crisis, it has been a great help to not have to wait for the weekend to go to church and try to refocus myself on Christ, or ask His help.
So how many weekday services do you think are feasible in an Eastern (/Oriental) Orthodox church? The most I've ever heard of is one parish that does Matins every morning, with a Presanctified Liturgy on Wednesday evenings in Great Lent.
The idea that the only service is the Mass / Liturgy is a regrettable late development inCatholicism.

It is possible to serve multiple rich services every day including Matins, Vespers, the Hours, Akathists, Molebens, Panikhidas, etc.   The prayer content is so rich and varied and provides a theological as well as devotional education.  These services are limited only by the physical and time limitations on the priest / parish. 

That's a Catholic development? I'm pretty sure they have all the Divine Offices we do.

One reason your average Orthodox parish priest doesn't serve Liturgy every day is that he would not be permitted to have sexual relations with his wife ever (since you shouldn't have relations the night before and after receiving Communion). Since Catholic priests are celibate (supposedly), they  don't have that constraint (though I also don't think they are so strict about avoiding relations around the time of Communion).

They have them but they don't use them.  Low mass, which was originally a concession for a second daily service for the private intentions of the clergy, has completely supplanted the use of the daily office in most parish life.  How often do you hear of Catholics going to matins or vespers or gathering to celebrate compline on the eves of feasts?   No, instead they have morning masses, evening masses, three and four masses a day sometimes.  Entirely unnecessary. 

Actually yes you have a point. I forgot about the multiple daily masses. Outrage!

I'm sure their daily office has lots of beautiful and instructive devotions to saints but I bet only the most devout ever have an opportunity to hear or to pray them.   Instead, quick noontime masses of 50 minutes or less are offered.  I find that deeply regrettable.   The Eucharist is central to our church life but there are a host of other prayers and devotions which foster a broader and deeper sense of communion when used in conjunction with regular Eucharistic services.   

Outside of monasteries, maybe the only "Vespers" or "Matins" that happen in the Western Rite (to use the phrase VERY loosely) are Monteverdi/Mozart/etc Vespers concerts.  I find it interesting how hymns in western services are flip-flopped compared to Orthodox services (e.g. Magnificat in Vespers for the west, Matins for the east; Gloria in the Mass for the west, Matins for the east).
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« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2014, 06:55:52 PM »

So how many weekday services do you think are feasible in an Eastern (/Oriental) Orthodox church? The most I've ever heard of is one parish that does Matins every morning, with a Presanctified Liturgy on Wednesday evenings in Great Lent.

It is possible to serve multiple rich services every day including Matins, Vespers, the Hours, Akathists, Molebens, Panikhidas, etc.   The prayer content is so rich and varied and provides a theological as well as devotional education.  These services are limited only by the physical and time limitations on the priest / parish. 



Mor,

I'm confused.  You don't have services for the departed in the OO communion?  Or prayer services devoted to particular saints?
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« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2014, 07:20:51 PM »

Mor,

I'm confused.  You don't have services for the departed in the OO communion?

We do, but other than the funeral rites, we have nothing like the Panikhida that is as long as the Panikhida.  The standard "memorial service" takes no more than five minutes, but has anywhere from one to three offerings of incense. 

Quote
Or prayer services devoted to particular saints?

In the Syriac tradition (at least in India), we don't have "stand alone" services like Akathists and Molebens for particular saints.  There are services for the feasts of saints, obviously, and there are "general menaion" type hymns.  But there are no independent services: we are strictly "Mass and Office" people.  Once in a while you'll see an "independent" service, and it is almost always of recent origin and an aping of RC devotional services with a greater or lesser Orthodox twist.     

That said, we are pretty flexible when it comes to the commemoration of saints: it is fairly easy to "add" hymns into the Office on most days, and even to celebrate Liturgy in memory of particular saints, even if the day in question is not their calendar feast.  For example, if my parish was named "Ss Peter and Paul" and the anniversary of the parish's foundation was 22 March, we could observe 22 March this year as a feast of Ss Peter and Paul.  If we did the latter, we could combine the services of the two days (29 June and Third Saturday of Lent) or simply pick one to trump the other.  I'm not sure to what extent you could do that in the Byzantine rite, so "stand alone" devotional services are a nice alternative.           
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« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2014, 11:40:48 PM »

One of the things I think is unfortunate about Eastern Orthodoxy is that it's impractical to perform the Divine Liturgy regularly on weekdays, as is common in the Western Rite, albeit from a certain perspective; the invention of the Low Mass has been a decidedly two-edged sword. Regardless, I do think weekday services help to remind people that religion is not just something one does in allocated weekend timeslots, even if there is a Saturday evening service as well. Speaking also from personal experience, I've found that in times when I've felt greatly disturbed or in crisis, it has been a great help to not have to wait for the weekend to go to church and try to refocus myself on Christ, or ask His help.
So how many weekday services do you think are feasible in an Eastern (/Oriental) Orthodox church? The most I've ever heard of is one parish that does Matins every morning, with a Presanctified Liturgy on Wednesday evenings in Great Lent.

Impractical to celebrate (perform was not the best word to use) the DL daily?  Tell that to the monks on Athos! 
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« Reply #14 on: March 18, 2014, 11:44:02 PM »

One of the things I think is unfortunate about Eastern Orthodoxy is that it's impractical to perform the Divine Liturgy regularly on weekdays, as is common in the Western Rite, albeit from a certain perspective; the invention of the Low Mass has been a decidedly two-edged sword. Regardless, I do think weekday services help to remind people that religion is not just something one does in allocated weekend timeslots, even if there is a Saturday evening service as well. Speaking also from personal experience, I've found that in times when I've felt greatly disturbed or in crisis, it has been a great help to not have to wait for the weekend to go to church and try to refocus myself on Christ, or ask His help.
So how many weekday services do you think are feasible in an Eastern (/Oriental) Orthodox church? The most I've ever heard of is one parish that does Matins every morning, with a Presanctified Liturgy on Wednesday evenings in Great Lent.

Impractical to celebrate (perform was not the best word to use) the DL daily?  Tell that to the monks on Athos! 
The monks on Mount Athos also don't have to show up promptly at 8:00 a.m. for an 8-5 job.
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« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2014, 11:45:44 PM »

One of the things I think is unfortunate about Eastern Orthodoxy is that it's impractical to perform the Divine Liturgy regularly on weekdays, as is common in the Western Rite, albeit from a certain perspective; the invention of the Low Mass has been a decidedly two-edged sword. Regardless, I do think weekday services help to remind people that religion is not just something one does in allocated weekend timeslots, even if there is a Saturday evening service as well. Speaking also from personal experience, I've found that in times when I've felt greatly disturbed or in crisis, it has been a great help to not have to wait for the weekend to go to church and try to refocus myself on Christ, or ask His help.
So how many weekday services do you think are feasible in an Eastern (/Oriental) Orthodox church? The most I've ever heard of is one parish that does Matins every morning, with a Presanctified Liturgy on Wednesday evenings in Great Lent.
The idea that the only service is the Mass / Liturgy is a regrettable late development inCatholicism.

It is possible to serve multiple rich services every day including Matins, Vespers, the Hours, Akathists, Molebens, Panikhidas, etc.   The prayer content is so rich and varied and provides a theological as well as devotional education.  These services are limited only by the physical and time limitations on the priest / parish. 

That's a Catholic development? I'm pretty sure they have all the Divine Offices we do.

One reason your average Orthodox parish priest doesn't serve Liturgy every day is that he would not be permitted to have sexual relations with his wife ever (since you shouldn't have relations the night before and after receiving Communion). Since Catholic priests are celibate (supposedly), they  don't have that constraint (though I also don't think they are so strict about avoiding relations around the time of Communion).
And sex isn't the married priest's only family responsibility.
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« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2014, 11:49:26 PM »

Impractical to celebrate (perform was not the best word to use) the DL daily?  Tell that to the monks on Athos! 

Have you ever attended a "daily" Liturgy in a monastery?  It's not always the most edifying experience precisely because it is often rushed in order to get through it and move on to the other tasks of the day. 
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« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2014, 12:50:00 AM »

My current OCA parish has Matins MWF. I believe normally it has Vespers on Wednesdays, but during Lent it's Presanctified instead. Vespers on Saturdays/Sundays as well. The Saturday Vespers here is apparently just a daily Vespers or something? Idk, it was a lot different than the Great Vespers I've seen before. Oddly no Salutations/Akathist services during Lent - is this just a Byzantine thing?

The Greek church near my OCA parish (not the Greek church I've talked about on here before) oddly seems to have no weekday services outside of Lent ever (except feast days), and rarely even Saturday services. They have tons of programs/ministries during the week though (basketball, Greek school, choir programs, parish council meetings, etc.) but no church services. Just seems strange. During Lent their weekdays have plenty of services.

My home Antiochian parish sometimes has Moleben services during the week. Vesperal Liturgies seem to be offered fairly often in the evenings before some saints' feast days, and Great Vespers on Saturdays. So admittedly not a whole lot, but the relations are close with the nearby Greek parish there, so often the priest and any willing parishioners go there fairly often for weekday services (Matins/Liturgy, or other services).

Point is: it's definitely possible to have multiple weekday services (even if just the Hours) if there's the possibility and demand for it. I have a decent sized parish, and yet only a couple people apart from the priest show up for Matins. Even Saturday Vespers ends up being a mere handful. Doing much more just wouldn't be practical.
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« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2014, 01:02:29 AM »

My parish has Matins every day (except Saturday, I think) and Vespers every day except Sunday. We also usually have two Divine Liturgies in a non-Lenten week; the second one is usually on Thursday in the early morning but major saints/feasts sometimes steal it (last year St Innocent was on a Saturday so we had Liturgy twice in a row). During Lent we have Presanctified on Friday of course but Wednesday is usually a pan-Orthodox thing that moves from church to church in the area each week; I don't think we'll be hosting one this year because our patronal feast (Annunciation) falls on a Tuesday and we're hosting everyone that night.
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« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2014, 01:15:13 AM »

My parish regrettably has very few weekday services. But we have another Antiochian parish that has Matins daily (or liturgy on days of significant saints). The ROCOR parish has Vespers daily and memorial liturgies on Saturdays. The Greeks have the Akathist on Wednesdays year-round and several midweek liturgies each month. Another parish is doing the Lenten form of the Sixth Hour daily during lent. So there's a lot of options around here.

I do like that Orthodoxy places such a high value on the daily office, as opposed to the Latin tradition of the Mass replacing everything. I think our celebration of the great feasts and Holy Week is much richer for it, as well as options for daily services.
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« Reply #20 on: March 19, 2014, 02:11:51 AM »

Quote
Oddly no Salutations/Akathist services during Lent - is this just a Byzantine thing?

The Slavs tend not to do them, unlike the Greeks, where it's a very strong tradition. However, the Greeks usually don't have Great Compline and the Great Canon of St Andrew of Crete on the first four days of Great Lent, like the Slavs do. Swings and roundabouts.  Smiley
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« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2014, 07:38:38 AM »

Here I was thinking most places don't have daily Liturgy because most priests have another job they need to attend.
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« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2014, 07:43:50 AM »

Here I was thinking most places don't have daily Liturgy because most priests have another job they need to attend.

Whether priests are full-time, or have day jobs, they are never idle.
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« Reply #23 on: March 19, 2014, 07:46:41 AM »

Here I was thinking most places don't have daily Liturgy because most priests have another job they need to attend.

Whether priests are full-time, or have day jobs, they are never idle.
Who said they were idle?
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« Reply #24 on: March 19, 2014, 09:27:27 AM »

One of the things I think is unfortunate about Eastern Orthodoxy is that it's impractical to perform the Divine Liturgy regularly on weekdays, as is common in the Western Rite, albeit from a certain perspective; the invention of the Low Mass has been a decidedly two-edged sword. Regardless, I do think weekday services help to remind people that religion is not just something one does in allocated weekend timeslots, even if there is a Saturday evening service as well. Speaking also from personal experience, I've found that in times when I've felt greatly disturbed or in crisis, it has been a great help to not have to wait for the weekend to go to church and try to refocus myself on Christ, or ask His help.
So how many weekday services do you think are feasible in an Eastern (/Oriental) Orthodox church? The most I've ever heard of is one parish that does Matins every morning, with a Presanctified Liturgy on Wednesday evenings in Great Lent.
The idea that the only service is the Mass / Liturgy is a regrettable late development inCatholicism.

It is possible to serve multiple rich services every day including Matins, Vespers, the Hours, Akathists, Molebens, Panikhidas, etc.   The prayer content is so rich and varied and provides a theological as well as devotional education.  These services are limited only by the physical and time limitations on the priest / parish. 

That's a Catholic development? I'm pretty sure they have all the Divine Offices we do.

One reason your average Orthodox parish priest doesn't serve Liturgy every day is that he would not be permitted to have sexual relations with his wife ever (since you shouldn't have relations the night before and after receiving Communion). Since Catholic priests are celibate (supposedly), they  don't have that constraint (though I also don't think they are so strict about avoiding relations around the time of Communion).

If one reads the requirements for a priest to celebrate the Divine Liturgy there is far more personal preparation he must make beyond the no sexual relations one. Fasting alone puts a practical limit unless the parish has more than one or even two priests. My priest has perhaps two to three per week and he's as skinny as the proverbial rail. Pani is constantly in prosfora baking mode, too (unless they want one of my "bricks"  Wink ).
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« Reply #25 on: March 19, 2014, 10:13:59 AM »

Quote
Oddly no Salutations/Akathist services during Lent - is this just a Byzantine thing?

The Slavs tend not to do them, unlike the Greeks, where it's a very strong tradition. However, the Greeks usually don't have Great Compline and the Great Canon of St Andrew of Crete on the first four days of Great Lent, like the Slavs do. Swings and roundabouts.  Smiley


Bulgars and Macedonians to have Akathist on Lent's Fridays and it's absolutely normal and they have also the Great Canon on the first four days - I find it very good tradition, I'm just wondering why we Serbs don't serve the Akathist on Fridays during the Great Lent, as we share many liturgical practices with Bulgars and Macedonians.



I know some parishes, both in Serbian and Poland, that have daily services, even daily Liturgies (of course beyond the Lent). Usually they serve Liturgy in the morning and in the evening vespers/an akathist/matins (  Undecided ) - the evening depends on the parish and the day.

Of course, daily Liturgies to have at least a few faithful and to be served properly (not too fastly) practically can be served only in monasteries and cathedral (or big parishes). Sometimes I miss daily Liturgies, when it's a day of commemoration of a saint that I very venerate but he/she is not so much venerated locally to be considered as a feast. Well, I'm quite lucky in such way that although my parish don't have daily services (but quite often, during Lent almost everyday), I live in the capital so we have the cathedral in which there are daily Liturgies and I can just go there if I wish.

The problem is the time of the Liturgy, as it's at 9 a.m. But that's also problem for great feasts. Only two parishes in Warsaw (the one with new calendar and Polish language and the second one with the old calendar and Church Slavonic) have festal Liturgies earlier than 9 a.m.
I have no idea why most Orthodox parishes over the world have festal Liturgies during the weekday (on weekends I find it OK) almost in the middle of the day. It's quite disturbing, despite the fact that for a few years I've been making successful combinations to attend all the services I want.
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« Reply #26 on: March 19, 2014, 10:15:12 AM »

Mor,

I'm confused.  You don't have services for the departed in the OO communion?

We do, but other than the funeral rites, we have nothing like the Panikhida that is as long as the Panikhida.  The standard "memorial service" takes no more than five minutes, but has anywhere from one to three offerings of incense. 

Quote
Or prayer services devoted to particular saints?

In the Syriac tradition (at least in India), we don't have "stand alone" services like Akathists and Molebens for particular saints.  There are services for the feasts of saints, obviously, and there are "general menaion" type hymns.  But there are no independent services: we are strictly "Mass and Office" people.  Once in a while you'll see an "independent" service, and it is almost always of recent origin and an aping of RC devotional services with a greater or lesser Orthodox twist.     

That said, we are pretty flexible when it comes to the commemoration of saints: it is fairly easy to "add" hymns into the Office on most days, and even to celebrate Liturgy in memory of particular saints, even if the day in question is not their calendar feast.  For example, if my parish was named "Ss Peter and Paul" and the anniversary of the parish's foundation was 22 March, we could observe 22 March this year as a feast of Ss Peter and Paul.  If we did the latter, we could combine the services of the two days (29 June and Third Saturday of Lent) or simply pick one to trump the other.  I'm not sure to what extent you could do that in the Byzantine rite, so "stand alone" devotional services are a nice alternative.           

Thanks!   This is very interesting and good to know. 
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« Reply #27 on: March 19, 2014, 02:09:38 PM »

Here I was thinking most places don't have daily Liturgy because most priests have another job they need to attend.

Whether priests are full-time, or have day jobs, they are never idle.
Who said they were idle?
Nobody, so don't get your knickers in a knot about it. Wink
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« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2014, 12:01:24 AM »

Impractical to celebrate (perform was not the best word to use) the DL daily?  Tell that to the monks on Athos! 

Have you ever attended a "daily" Liturgy in a monastery?  It's not always the most edifying experience precisely because it is often rushed in order to get through it and move on to the other tasks of the day. 

Yes, many times.  Such has not been my experience.
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« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2014, 12:01:24 AM »

Impractical to celebrate (perform was not the best word to use) the DL daily?  Tell that to the monks on Athos! 

Have you ever attended a "daily" Liturgy in a monastery?  It's not always the most edifying experience precisely because it is often rushed in order to get through it and move on to the other tasks of the day. 

I have. I have never considered the DL to be hurried or rushed.  I know they probably chant/say their prayers faster than what you have in a typical non-monastic parish, but I have never considered that a hindrance. 
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« Reply #30 on: April 06, 2014, 01:23:50 AM »

I have occasionally seen vespers advertised in RC bulletins during Lent in cathedrals or traditional (TLM-offering) parishes.

The Orthodox parish I attend says a service each day. If there is a major saint that day, it will be a liturgy in the morning. Otherwise it alternates daily between matins and vespers. During lenten periods each weekday will have both matins and vespers, although vespers may be replaced by an evening peesanctified, akathist or compline depending on the day, and matins may be replaced by a liturgy (presanctified during Great Lent).
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