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Author Topic: Do you really believe?  (Read 1698 times) Average Rating: 0
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fennik
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« on: March 26, 2005, 05:20:01 AM »

As i see some of your 'what ifs' with revolution it comes to me that you dont really love jesus. You say you believe, thats good, you aught to. But it comes to mind that jesus doesnt only want you too believe in him, he wants you to love him and other people, do you love him? awnser this question for the sake of your own 'eternity'. Some think that all jesus wants you to do is believe in him, while that is true...he also wants you to love him, do you feel love for him? Are you just believing because you know that something had to create everything and he is your way out? I dont come here to persucute you, i come here to ask of you, why do you not love jesus? Worship is great, so is belief, but jesus died because of YOU! Forgive me for being harshe but it troubles me seeing that 'you' would tend to believe for the sake of your own 'eternity'. Thanks for reading and please dont hold anything againts me for speaking the truth. Amen
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EkhristosAnesti
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« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2005, 07:58:38 AM »

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As i see some of your 'what ifs' with revolution it comes to me that you dont really love jesus. You say you believe, thats good, you aught to. But it comes to mind that jesus doesnt only want you too believe in him, he wants you to love him and other people, do you love him?

Fennik, may I please ask you to clarify your intentions in employing the above highlighted pronouns. Are you addressing the general reader, or specifically Orthodox readers?

I ask this, because plenty of times in dialogue with certain protestants or “non-denominationalist’s”, they have suggested a particular misconception; namely, that because as Orthodox believers, we place emphasis on the sacraments, attending the liturgy, etc. etc. that we are therefore involved in some ritualistic system of institutional religion which is devoid of “the love of Jesus” and “a personal relationship” with Him.

If I am way off the mark, then please forgive me; it’s just that your words are infamously familiar speech to my ears.

Peace.

 
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« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2005, 08:09:06 AM »

You have your beliefs and your way of life to show you have love for jesus? I asked, do you love jesus? That is very different from beleifs and way of life. As you love your mother with your human feelings, as you love your 'girlfreind' for example, its a feeling of love for the lord i ask do you have? Or do you simply believe in your way of life and your 'belieifs' you say you have. It's easy to believe i something, you believe that the satan exists, therefore do you worship him? You dont live the way of the devil but what does that matter? Love, for jesus and for mandkind is what jesus wants from you, not just beliefs and living the life. Can you honestly tell me that you feel love for Jesus? Honestly, through your whole belief progression. Sorry if im confusing, im just trying to state my point.
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EkhristosAnesti
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« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2005, 08:39:14 AM »

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I asked, do you love jesus?

I’m working on it.

Quote
Sorry if im confusing, im just trying to state my point.

No worries. I’m just trying to figure out (out of pure curiosity...) whether you’re making a general point about loving God, or an implicitly specific point concerning the Orthodox believer’s relationship with GodGǪ(an inquiry motivated by the noting of certain parallels between your speech and certain conversations I’ve had with others, as described in my above post) that’s all. So...?

Peace.
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« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2005, 11:13:46 AM »

You have your beliefs and your way of life to show you have love for jesus? I asked, do you love jesus? That is very different from beleifs and way of life. As you love your mother with your human feelings, as you love your 'girlfreind' for example, its a feeling of love for the lord i ask do you have?
If we love the Lord like we love our mothers or girlfriends, then we are in trouble; how do we love the Author of Life  like we Love our brothers and sisters?  We are called to love one another as Christ Loved us, but this is spurred on by the greatest Love we can have, a Love for God.  This Love for God will overflow to our neighbors, and will lead to a love for them.

But this Love does not exist within a vacuum.  Love necessitates action - Love needs movement.  That is why we have the strong liturgical and worship tradition in the Church - it is a reflection and a movement of Love towards Christ as a body of believers.  Love requires us to do what's best for one another, rather than what they want.  Love requires us to empty our own egos, to be humble, just as the Perfect Lover (God as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit - a Unity in Love; but especially the Son in His self-emptying) was humble before His Beloved (The Father and The Church). 

If it seems that some have a lack of Love (like myself), its just our human frailty.  But the Church, the Orthodox Church, calls us to perfect our Love with one another and God within the context of the Communal Worship, Private Prayer, and acts of Love (Charity, Compassion, etc.)
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cizinec
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« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2005, 12:52:54 PM »

I work with some folks who say they really LOVE Jesus.  They go to church and colse their eyes and sway along to Christian pop songs and choruses. 

Of course when they come to work they lie about their work and try to get ahead by making their co-workers look bad. 

I recall a little thing from the Gospel about "Lord, when were you hungry?"  But I guess that verse doesn't apply to them and they don't have to do anything since they've been "saved." 

Love, as you may remember from the writings of St. Paul, *demands* action in the individual. 

You ask if we love Jesus, come to our churches and see our love in action.  Go to Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and Kosovo and see the suffering of people for their love of Christ and His Church.  Talk is cheap and babbled rhetoric is meaningless unless it is believed and acted on.
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« Reply #6 on: March 26, 2005, 04:42:21 PM »

I dont come here to persucute you, i come here to ask of you, why do you not love jesus? Worship is great, so is belief, but jesus died because of YOU! Forgive me for being harshe but it troubles me seeing that 'you' would tend to believe for the sake of your own 'eternity'.

I believe in Him. I love Him? Tough question. First of all, while I feel a deep belief in me for Jesus almost every hour, this is not the same with love. I am sorry to say that I do not feel love for Jesus because I have no image of Him in my mind to love.
As for the why? Because many times that I ask for the rain to stop in the way Jesus told us to in the Gospels,
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this happens
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BritishEnquirer
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« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2005, 06:17:28 AM »

Jesus defined what love for him involves. He said that 'he who loves Me will obey my commandments.' As Don Franscisco sings: 'Love is not a feeling, it's an act of your will.'

Christina
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« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2005, 12:44:07 PM »

"Love" is a verb
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katherine 2001
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« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2005, 09:21:17 PM »

Jesus makes it clear that if you love Him, you will feed the hungry, clothe the naked, give drink to the thirsty and visit those who are sick or in prison.  He said that if we have done this, it will be the same as having done it for Him.  If we love Him, we will consume His Body and Blood in Communion, so that He will abide in us and us in Him.  Do you do all of that?  Do you put your faith into action?  James is clear that faith without works is a dead faith.  Christina is right.  Jesus says that those who love Him will keep the Commandments. 
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katherine 2001
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« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2005, 09:24:50 PM »

Also, Fennik, do you know what is in our hearts?  If I were you, I'd worry about whether you love Jesus.  You are the only person that you will answer to God for on Judgment Day.  That is enough to keep any of us busy.  Jesus says to take the beams out of our own eyes before trying to remove a speck from someone else's eyes.  I think that if any of us asked God to show us the beams in our eyes, He would show us plenty.
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mathetes
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« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2005, 03:17:07 AM »

You have your beliefs and your way of life to show you have love for jesus? I asked, do you love jesus? That is very different from beleifs and way of life. As you love your mother with your human feelings, as you love your 'girlfreind' for example, its a feeling of love for the lord i ask do you have? Or do you simply believe in your way of life and your 'belieifs' you say you have. It's easy to believe i something, you believe that the satan exists, therefore do you worship him? You dont live the way of the devil but what does that matter? Love, for jesus and for mandkind is what jesus wants from you, not just beliefs and living the life. Can you honestly tell me that you feel love for Jesus? Honestly, through your whole belief progression. Sorry if im confusing, im just trying to state my point.

Fennik,

The Lord Jesus taught, "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him" ( John 14: 21, Authorized Version).

As has already been noted in this forum, we cannot judge other peoples' hearts; in fact, only God can do that ( Jeremiah 17: 10 cf. Revelation 2: 23 ).  We must meet and know people before we can get an idea who may or may not love God.  It's difficult to get that much information from discussion boards, unless someone blatantly professes hatred for our Lord or advocates disobeying his commandments.

Boards such as this one, the Free-for-All Board with its hot topics, tend to have debates about various issues rather than testimonies about people's personal walk with the Lord.  Likewise, boards addressing questions from prospective converts usually focus on why certain beliefs are held and why different practices exist.  It would be unwise to conclude from these boards that the participants never concern themselves with anything except differences in doctrines and rituals.

I hope this helps.  Please take it as coming from an inquirer looking at Orthodoxy.

In Christ,
Mathetes
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« Reply #12 on: March 30, 2005, 12:42:16 PM »

You ask if we love Jesus, come to our churches and see our love in action.  Go to Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and Kosovo and see the suffering of people for their love of Christ and His Church.  Talk is cheap and babbled rhetoric is meaningless unless it is believed and acted on.

Kudos to my friend Cizinec, who states it as good as it can be stated here.
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cizinec
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« Reply #13 on: March 30, 2005, 01:33:58 PM »

Where's fennik, anyway?

Stupid question.
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