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Author Topic: Orthodox Unity - Bump in the Road or End of the Road?  (Read 339 times) Average Rating: 0
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Justin Kissel
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« on: February 25, 2014, 06:10:32 PM »

Orthodox Unity - Bump in the Road or End of the Road?

For those who have listened to this, I am curious about what your thoughts are on it?
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« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2014, 06:14:05 PM »

Orthodox Unity - Bump in the Road or End of the Road?

For those who have listened to this, I am curious about what your thoughts are on it?
Was the position of "Having-multiple-bishops-in-one-area-is-OK-because-it's-discipline-not-doctrine" properly refuted?
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« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2014, 06:23:26 PM »

I listened to it last night but I was doing other things, so while that issue in particular was indeed brought up, I don't remember all the details. I think Dcn. Peter said at one point that he thought the response from ROCOR along those lines was more about it being a less-than-ideal-but-still-permissible temporary situation, and that he didn't think ROCOR considered such a position acceptable long term. I am planning on listening again tonight, more carefully this time, and will try to jot down what is said about it in particular.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2014, 06:23:46 PM by Asteriktos » Logged

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« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2014, 06:41:47 PM »

I listened to it last night but I was doing other things, so while that issue in particular was indeed brought up, I don't remember all the details. I think Dcn. Peter said at one point that he thought the response from ROCOR along those lines was more about it being a less-than-ideal-but-still-permissible temporary situation, and that he didn't think ROCOR considered such a position acceptable long term. I am planning on listening again tonight, more carefully this time, and will try to jot down what is said about it in particular.
Kevin Allen mentioned also an un-named (but famous) priest who argued that from his perspective, the multiple-bishop situation need not be temporary.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2014, 06:42:07 PM by Jetavan » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: February 25, 2014, 08:34:16 PM »

I'm re-listening to it now and about 20 minutes in. The ROCOR thing is discussed from about 16:35 to 18:19, but the situation in general starts getting discussed from about the 6 minute mark. Here is the part of it that I had alluded to above:

"Now, my personal feeling is this: ROCOR set forth this canon as basically a justification for the present situation. And I really doubt that they would apply this to the long term... or as they put in their letter, 'the otherwise standard paradigm of a purely local structure.' So, whether what they're thinking is because of the way that we are now, or the way that we can be, it's something that we need to discuss a little further."


EDIT--The ellipsis was for a pause by Dcn. Peter, not an editing out of material by me.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2014, 08:35:51 PM by Asteriktos » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2014, 01:31:50 PM »

Concerning paragraph two of Pdn. Peter's response (below), what are some examples of local American bishops who have told their Mother Churches things the latter maybe did not want to hear, but the Mother Churches responded in a way that helped Orthodoxy in America?

***********************

From the interview:

Mr. Allen: ... (Many) people feel that our bishops and primates are taking their marching orders from the mother churches; that local considerations are, in some cases, not at the top of the agenda; that foreign political situations, power struggles, various different issues like that are coloring this whole consideration, this whole review; and that the needs of the American faithful are secondary... Do you have response to that?

Pdn. Peter: Well, I certainly hope that’s not the case. All of us know that we, as clergy and laity, are expected to be obedient to our bishops. Our bishops are, in turn, expected to be obedient to their own synods that are existing here in this country. So those people who are reporting to overseas synods or patriarchs, they have to be obedient to them. And so, to a certain extent, you might say, they have to take their marching orders from them, but at the end of the day, Christ is in charge. He’s the one that we’re all supposed to be looking towards. Those of us who are subject to authority, whether we’re bishops or clergy or laity, know that those people to whom we are subject need our input. They need our feedback. They need our prayers. And one of the things that they need is our love.

To love someone doesn’t mean that you agree with them in everything that they do. Sometimes, especially from parents to children, and sometimes children to parents, if you really love your father, you love your mother, and you know that they’re doing something that could be done better, you don’t just sit there and say nothing. You try to work with them. I think that [in] the spirit of love and of communion that sometimes may mean you get slapped down. You may get punished. You may be a martyr in some small way. Maybe you’ll be a martyr in a big way; you might get exiled to some place that you don’t want to be. But if you’re a Christian, at the end of the day, you need to do that, because, quite frankly, power, position, authority, prestige means, as St. Paul says, he counts these as refuse; it’s garbage. For the love of your fellow man, and you’re bringing that fellow man to Christ.
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« Reply #6 on: March 04, 2014, 02:59:27 PM »

I listened to it last night but I was doing other things, so while that issue in particular was indeed brought up, I don't remember all the details. I think Dcn. Peter said at one point that he thought the response from ROCOR along those lines was more about it being a less-than-ideal-but-still-permissible temporary situation, and that he didn't think ROCOR considered such a position acceptable long term. I am planning on listening again tonight, more carefully this time, and will try to jot down what is said about it in particular.
when does "temporary" become permanent?
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« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2014, 03:01:55 PM »

Doesn't a bishop have transportation and the support of the church? ...
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