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Author Topic: Two verses contradict each other.....  (Read 428 times) Average Rating: 0
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Raylight
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« on: February 14, 2014, 07:09:13 PM »

Hi.


This verse is very well known, in Hebrews 9:22 says " 22 In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness "


However, in Tobit 12:9 says " For alms delivereth from death, and the same is that which purgeth away sins, and maketh to find mercy and life everlasting "


Here is a trusted official accepted book says that without shedding of blood there is no forgiveness, however, a book that is questioned such as Tobit says otherwise, says something actually contradicts the whole Christian understanding of forgiveness. So how could we mix these verse together ?

Is there any verse in the accepted Books by Jews and Protestants says that we can gain forgiveness of sins by alms ?

Peace.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2014, 07:10:36 PM by Raylight » Logged
xOrthodox4Christx
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« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2014, 07:13:27 PM »

Where's the contradiction?
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Raylight
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« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2014, 07:16:14 PM »

Where's the contradiction?

One says that there is no forgiveness without shedding of blood, which what the Lord did on the cross.

Another one from a book that is questioned says that alms can lead our sins to be forgiven.

If alms can do that, then why Jesus had to do what he did, we simply could keep giving up money to poor people all out lives every time we commit a sin.

So, either there is no forgiveness without shedding of blood, or there is forgiveness without it ?

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Justin Kissel
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« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2014, 07:16:58 PM »

Almsgiving brings forgiveness in the same way that "love covers a multitude of sins" (1 Pet. 4:8), not in spite of or separate from the life, death, and resurrection of Christ, but because of and through Christ's activity.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2014, 07:17:13 PM by Asteriktos » Logged

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Jovan
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« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2014, 07:23:08 PM »

Very important to understand that thee implication in Hebrews 9:22 is to a overall view of salvation, while Tobit 12:9 talks about a specific deed that can result in salvation and forgiveness of sins.

The one does not exclude the other. So when we for example read in the most central prayer:

"Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespasses against us."

That does not mean that "the shedding of blood" is excluded from the overall view on forgiveness of sins, as the prayer does not mention it. Same goes with the example you gave.
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« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2014, 07:24:57 PM »

Where's the contradiction?

One says that there is no forgiveness without shedding of blood, which what the Lord did on the cross.

Another one from a book that is questioned says that alms can lead our sins to be forgiven.

If alms can do that, then why Jesus had to do what he did, we simply could keep giving up money to poor people all out lives every time we commit a sin.

So, either there is no forgiveness without shedding of blood, or there is forgiveness without it ?



To be clear, Tobit does not exclude the shedding of blood. He clearly states that you might find mercy and life everlasting, but the "how" question is not even mentioned in the passage.
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« Reply #6 on: February 14, 2014, 07:27:10 PM »

Where's the contradiction?

One says that there is no forgiveness without shedding of blood, which what the Lord did on the cross.

Another one from a book that is questioned says that alms can lead our sins to be forgiven.

If alms can do that, then why Jesus had to do what he did, we simply could keep giving up money to poor people all out lives every time we commit a sin.

So, either there is no forgiveness without shedding of blood, or there is forgiveness without it ?



I don't see forgiveness mentioned in Tobit, maybe you see something I don't.
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"Years ago I recognized my kinship with all living beings, and I made up my mind that I was not one bit better than the meanest on earth.... While there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element, I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free." (Eugene Debs)
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« Reply #7 on: February 14, 2014, 07:27:44 PM »

Another example might be: When John, the best who have been born of a woman, screamed in the wilderness:

"2 and saying, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near.” (Matthew 3:2)

This does not mean that repenting of ones sins is the thing that grants forgiveness for sins. It means that repentance is that which triggers the reason for receiving forgiveness of sins.

And Tobit makes a exact same statement on a deed which by true faith and love can grant you everlasting life.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2014, 07:29:07 PM by Jovan » Logged

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Raylight
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« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2014, 07:28:23 PM »

Very important to understand that thee implication in Hebrews 9:22 is to a overall view of salvation, while Tobit 12:9 talks about a specific deed that can result in salvation and forgiveness of sins.

The one does not exclude the other. So when we for example read in the most central prayer:

"Forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespasses against us."

That does not mean that "the shedding of blood" is excluded from the overall view on forgiveness of sins, as the prayer does not mention it. Same goes with the example you gave.

The question was answered by you. Thank you so much Smiley
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« Reply #9 on: July 23, 2014, 09:37:46 PM »

Is there any verse in the accepted Books by Jews and Protestants says that we can gain forgiveness of sins by alms ?

I don't know about alms, but the new covenant appears to follow the old
re:confession and repentance.

Proverbs 28:13
“He who covers his sins will not prosper,
but whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy.”

1 John 1:7-2:1
"But IF we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another,
and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
IF we confess (and repent of) our sins, He is faithful and just to
forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin.
And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous."
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Christians must confess and repent of their sins in order to maintain their righteousness before God.
Throughout the entire Bible: sinners are unrighteous, obedient believers are righteous!
Christians must endure in the faith until they die to receive eternal life (no OSAS)!
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