Author Topic: ordination  (Read 932 times)

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Offline AMichael

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ordination
« on: February 14, 2014, 09:44:54 AM »
I hope this hasn't been asked, I didn't see it.

The Council of Chalcedon, canon 6 states, In Martyries and Monasteries ordinations are strictly forbidden. Should any one be ordained therein, his ordination shall be reputed of no effect. Seems that I visited a RC monastery many years ago and I believe they told me that there were ordinations within the monastery. I could be mistaken. This was back in the 80s. Is this true? Why is it forbidden in the chalcedon orthodox? In other words, whats the reason behind that canon. What do the Oriental Orthodox say about this?

Offline ialmisry

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Re: ordination
« Reply #1 on: February 14, 2014, 09:50:59 AM »
This canon (Pedalion)?
Quote
It is decreed that no one shall be ordained at large either a Presbyter or a Deacon, nor anything else at all in the ecclesiastical ranks unless he be particularly assigned to the church of some city, or to a martyry, or to a monastery. As for those ordained at large the holy Council has determined that any such chirothesy shall be null and void, and that such ordinees shall not be allowed to officiate anywhere, to the dishonor of the ordainer.

(c. XIII of Neocaesarea.)

Interpretation.

Wishing to prevent easily those in holy orders from going or being transferred from one locality to another in violation of the Canons, the cause and root of this evil being that they are ordained at large and indefinitely, the holy Council decrees in its present Canon that henceforth neither a priest nor a deacon nor any other ecclesiastic shall be ordained in such a manner, but must in any case be assigned to a church of a city or village, or to a monastery, or to the church of some martyr, to be mentioned by the prelate in the course of reciting the ordination prayer, by saying "The divine grace ordaineth so-and-so a Presbyter or Deacon of such or such a church, or monastery, by name — in identically the same manner, that is to say, in which the name of the province is pronounced aloud in the ordination of every bishop. As for all those who have been ordained indefinitely, the holy Council has ruled that the ordination be invalid, and that those so ordained shall not be allowed to officiate in any region; in order that the prelate performing the ordination contrary to the Canons be dishonored in consequence of this lack of the right to officiate, and be led to sobriety as a result of this dishonor, and be discouraged from doing so again. But please bewail the fact, O reader, that in spite of the present Canon during the ordination of a deacon or presbyter today the name of a particular church or of a monastery is not specially mentioned, as required by the terms of this Canon, though this prescription appears to be an element of the ordination along with the other components thereof, notwithstanding that the violators of this rule fail to take this into account at all.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2014, 09:51:39 AM by ialmisry »
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Offline Asteriktos

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Re: ordination
« Reply #2 on: February 14, 2014, 09:56:04 AM »
I'm not sure which version or translation you are reading, but from looking at the CCEL/NA version it seems to just say that someone who is ordained must have a specific place that they are being ordained for or assigned to. In other words, there must be some reason to be ordained, some responsibilities or people that need looking after, and not simply be ordained and then left to your own devices.

Offline AMichael

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Re: ordination
« Reply #3 on: February 14, 2014, 10:09:23 AM »
I'm not reading the canon from anything official, but from an open source that is generalizing it. When I visited this RC monastery, they told me that they educated their monks from within the monastery to become priests. They didn't send them to a seminary. Unless I'm mistaken, thats what the abbot told me. Is that what canon 6 is stating? Are there monasteries that educate their own monks to become priests or are priests only ordained at seminaries?

Offline podkarpatska

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Re: ordination
« Reply #4 on: February 14, 2014, 11:04:19 AM »
I'm not reading the canon from anything official, but from an open source that is generalizing it. When I visited this RC monastery, they told me that they educated their monks from within the monastery to become priests. They didn't send them to a seminary. Unless I'm mistaken, thats what the abbot told me. Is that what canon 6 is stating? Are there monasteries that educate their own monks to become priests or are priests only ordained at seminaries?

Catholic orders operate parishes in places independent of the local Ordinary (akin to our Metropolitans) but with his blessing. Historically, they educate their own priests, Franciscans are known for this, and assign them accordingly. So they are not "at large" or without a portfolio - which would violate the Canon. I think that's your answer. In my old neighborhood, the Fransicans used to serve the Lituanian and Slovak parishes. As time went by they ceded the Lithuanian one to the Diocese which closed it and rumor has it that the same fate awaits the Slovak parish.

Offline Mor Ephrem

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Re: ordination
« Reply #5 on: February 14, 2014, 12:03:10 PM »
Quote
Canon 6, Council of Chalcedon

No one, whether presbyter or deacon or anyone at all who belongs to the ecclesiastical order, is to be ordained without title, unless the one ordained is specially assigned to a city or village church or to a martyr's shrine or a monastery. The sacred synod has decreed that the ordination of those ordained without title is null, and that they cannot operate anywhere, because of the presumption of the one who ordained them.

This is basically prohibiting clergy "at large".  Every clergyman is ordained for service in a particular local Church (if a bishop) or for a particular altar (priests, deacons, minor clerics).  You can't have "Bishop John", but only "Bishop John of New York".  You can't have "Deacon Paul", he is ordained to serve a particular parish and must be attached somewhere even if retired.  You're ordained for a community, not "just because" or to serve "everybody". 
I think you can say ~ In the Name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit and post with charitable and prayerful intentions.